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Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
Name:
Susan
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FYI-
I just want to put this out there.
if you are looking for a job and the HR people ask you what you are or were making at your last job, please tell the truth.
This just cost a candidate here a job.
We verify info..many companies do the same. It's never a good idea to lie.
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Posted 9/19/08 10:28 AM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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gpsyeyes
She's my world!!!
Member since 8/06 1184 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: FYI-
I think this is not an issue if you ask them not to contact your current employer. I have never had a problem with this as I would never let them contact my job because they weren't aware that I am leaving. It is part of the negotiations and it shouldn't cost someone their job. Plus, actual salary can be calculated in different ways if you include bonuses and other benefits, so it doesn't have to be clear cut.
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| Posted 9/19/08 12:20 PM |
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Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
Name:
Susan
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Re: FYI-
we verify by tax return or last w2 or paystubb.
It will cost you the job if you lie about your pay.
eta: a lot of firms do this.
Message edited 9/19/2008 1:19:47 PM.
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| Posted 9/19/08 1:16 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: FYI-
Posted by Blu-ize
we verify by tax return or last w2 or paystubb.
It will cost you the job if you lie about your pay.
eta: a lot of firms do this.
my company does the same. they ask for a pay stub from the previous employer.
it's ok to ask for more $ when you're applying, but definitely never lie about what you earned at your last job!
Message edited 9/20/2008 9:51:49 AM.
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| Posted 9/20/08 9:51 AM |
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MeeshkaMich
LL=Yum
Member since 2/06 5616 total posts
Name:
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Re: FYI-
Posted by Blu-ize
we verify by tax return or last w2 or paystubb.
It will cost you the job if you lie about your pay.
eta: a lot of firms do this.
I agree you shouldn't lie. However things can change depending on bonus, etc. Example when I was still in grad school whatever tuition I got "free" was added to my salary so every year depending on how many courses I took it was increased. Or depending on what I was taxed on at the end of the year my paystubs were less for a couple of paychecks. Would you have to let the company know this?
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| Posted 9/20/08 8:47 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: FYI-
Posted by MeeshkaMich
Posted by Blu-ize
we verify by tax return or last w2 or paystubb.
It will cost you the job if you lie about your pay.
eta: a lot of firms do this.
I agree you shouldn't lie. However things can change depending on bonus, etc. Example when I was still in grad school whatever tuition I got "free" was added to my salary so every year depending on how many courses I took it was increased. Or depending on what I was taxed on at the end of the year my paystubs were less for a couple of paychecks. Would you have to let the company know this?
the way I would handle this is your actual salary + X amount as a bonus.
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| Posted 9/20/08 8:52 PM |
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gpsyeyes
She's my world!!!
Member since 8/06 1184 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: FYI-
what field are you in where they want tax returns, etc? just curious - I have worked for law firms for over 17 years and never would they ask for this, nor have I ever heard of anyone doing this. I'm not even sure if it is proper for a prospective employer to do this.
Also, how do they justify wanting to know this information? What you were making on your last job shouldn't have any bearing on a new one - ie. the new employer should be able to evaluate a candidate by their past experience, how they performed on an interview and speaking to references to make a decision as to what they are worth, along with what they are willing to pay for the position. Why would they think that knowing what someone made at their last job is any indication of the type of employee they will be or how much they should be paid.
I don't know, it seems irrelevant to me.
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| Posted 9/21/08 9:26 AM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: FYI-
Posted by gpsyeyes
what field are you in where they want tax returns, etc? just curious - I have worked for law firms for over 17 years and never would they ask for this, nor have I ever heard of anyone doing this. I'm not even sure if it is proper for a prospective employer to do this.
Also, how do they justify wanting to know this information? What you were making on your last job shouldn't have any bearing on a new one - ie. the new employer should be able to evaluate a candidate by their past experience, how they performed on an interview and speaking to references to make a decision as to what they are worth, along with what they are willing to pay for the position. Why would they think that knowing what someone made at their last job is any indication of the type of employee they will be or how much they should be paid.
I don't know, it seems irrelevant to me.
my company doesn't ask for tax returns, but they do ask for proof of salary at your former/current job ie: a pay stub. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with that. if you're being honest, there should be no problem.
I don't think it has anything to do with what you're asking for in terms of compensation. I just think it's about honesty and integrity.
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| Posted 9/21/08 10:15 AM |
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Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
Name:
Susan
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Re: FYI-
if you didn't have a W2 or pay stub the next best thing would be a tax return. At least the cover page.
If you made $50K at your last job and you said you made $60k in hopes that you could ask for $70K and you lie about it, you won't get the job because you lied. Integrity and honesty come into play here.
The key is if you lie you won't get the job. It doesn't matter how you are compensated, just don't lie.
That was the point.
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| Posted 9/21/08 3:57 PM |
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DRMom
Two in Blue
Member since 5/05 20223 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: FYI-
Posted by gpsyeyes
what field are you in where they want tax returns, etc? just curious - I have worked for law firms for over 17 years and never would they ask for this, nor have I ever heard of anyone doing this. I'm not even sure if it is proper for a prospective employer to do this.
Also, how do they justify wanting to know this information? What you were making on your last job shouldn't have any bearing on a new one - ie. the new employer should be able to evaluate a candidate by their past experience, how they performed on an interview and speaking to references to make a decision as to what they are worth, along with what they are willing to pay for the position. Why would they think that knowing what someone made at their last job is any indication of the type of employee they will be or how much they should be paid.
I don't know, it seems irrelevant to me.
ITA with you! I have interviewed for banking jobs where they asked my former sakary and I chose not to continue the interview process. I really think its a way for companies to pigeonhole you into a certain salary range and prevent people from moving up
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| Posted 9/21/08 4:01 PM |
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MrsRJP
Happy Spring!!!
Member since 12/07 2151 total posts
Name:
Rena Marie
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Re: FYI-
I try to get as close as possible since I was usually per hour. I would never in my life lie about anything on my application especially that area.
ETA: To change my view. When I just mentioned this to friend at dinner who works HR she thought it was odd. She never heard of this practice. I always thought it was when the potential employer called the former employer to verify the salary and work history. She said that is what she does if necessary. I asked her because I am job hunting and was concerned of this. I guess I will have to watch out when i am looking because I am going to turn it down if that happens. It sound like I am being called a liar.
Message edited 9/21/2008 11:14:42 PM.
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| Posted 9/21/08 7:12 PM |
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gpsyeyes
She's my world!!!
Member since 8/06 1184 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: FYI-
If a prospective employer ever asked me for a pay stub or any other type of proof of my income without making me a job offer first, I would walk away.
Honesty and integrity can not be measured by telling the truth about how much money you make.
As a highly honest person and one with a great amount of integrity, loyalty, etc., I would be offended and insulted for a potential employer to judge me in this way. I think it is ignorant and shortsighted to do so.
Let me ask this, to those employers who would ask for W-2's - what if I didn't work the whole year prior due to health reasons or other family medical leave issues & my true income isn't reflected on the statment? Now do I have to explain why? That is none of their business. What if I was earning part of my income from my employer "off the books" as a mutual agreement of compensation? Is that any of their business or does it prove how much money I earn? Besides, would they be allowed to "white out" their SS No. and other "identifiable" information, since it isn't something most provide until they are hired? If so, couldn't they change other things and the correct salary may not be right anyway?
Here's the other side of it too... if I don't lie about my salary does that mean I am an honest person with integrity? Maybe I just don't need to lie about my salary!
I think this is a very dangerous and invasive way of determining if someone is "honest or has integrity", which, neither in my opinion should be the top priority of an employer's search, depending on the job, of course. There are many other things to look for in a prospective employee and I do not think that this method works.
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| Posted 9/21/08 8:20 PM |
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Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
Name:
Susan
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Re: FYI-
Someone was offered a job. They said they earned x..it turned out they lied. Could you trust an employee that lied to you?
If you said you didn't work last year due to personal issues and could not produce a w2 or pay stub for verification, then other arrangements would be made. You would never have to disclose what those personal reasons were. I've had this happen as well.
If you worked off the books, that's your business. It's not real reportable income therefore cannot be verified.
Not saying you are not honest, but if you lie about your salary, then there is a possibility you may lie about something else. That's how some employers see it. I am not in HR or someone that makes the rules.
The person was going to be offered a job. Letter was being prepped, offer was going to be extended. It's part of the background check that our firm does.
Our firm is not the exception to the rule.
The last 5 places I have worked asked me to verify my income and they were not all banks. They also verified my education. In fact, if I lied about that and I was working already, I would have been fired. That was their policy. You lie about something you have stated on an application that you sign and attest to, you can be terminated. All of the info you provide on an application is verified and you are asked to sign for permission.
Someone a few years ago said they never committed a crime. Well, they had a Dwi. The DWI alone would not have cost him the job, but since he didn't disclose, he was not offered the job. That was at a law firm, not a bank.
I'm just putting this out there. It's not worth not getting the job that you want by lying. There are other ways to negotiate a higher salary than saying you earned more than you did. In fact, one of the top reasons people look for another job is money.
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| Posted 9/22/08 9:53 AM |
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Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
Name:
Susan
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Re: FYI-
Posted by MrsRJP
I try to get as close as possible since I was usually per hour. I would never in my life lie about anything on my application especially that area.
ETA: To change my view. When I just mentioned this to friend at dinner who works HR she thought it was odd. She never heard of this practice. I always thought it was when the potential employer called the former employer to verify the salary and work history. She said that is what she does if necessary. I asked her because I am job hunting and was concerned of this. I guess I will have to watch out when i am looking because I am going to turn it down if that happens. It sound like I am being called a liar.
I don't know about every HR dept but like I said in my previous post, the last 5 jobs I had, I had to attest to my truthfulness about my background and salary. What's the difference between contacting a former employer or providing a w2 or pay stub?
Why would you turn down a job that asked you to be truthful on a job application?
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| Posted 9/22/08 9:59 AM |
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gpsyeyes
She's my world!!!
Member since 8/06 1184 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: FYI-
I'm guessing this has something to do with being in the banking industry, as I have never filled out an "application" or had to provide written answers in an interview. Also, I have never allowed a prospective employer to contact my current employer, so they could never check my salary or anything else. How could they talk to your current employer - then they would know you are looking elsewhere for employment and that is never a good thing.
Just to be clear, though, misrepresenting your salary is very, very different from misrepresenting your education, qualifications or criminal history. It is a given in most fields that salaries are based on many things, including bonuses, commissions, health benefits, paid time off, etc., so proving it as part of a "background check" is not the way to determine if someone is worthy of employment.
It is wrong to make assumptions and judgements about people based on something like overstating their current salary. This is a long standing tradition in salary negotiations and it has nothing to do with a person's honesty or intergrity.
Edited to add: a prospective employer can not ask whether you have been arrested. They can only ask whether you have been convicted of a crime, which are two very different things. Finding out that someone had been arrested does not mean they lied, if that's the case. Only convictions need to be disclosed.
Message edited 9/22/2008 10:27:26 AM.
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| Posted 9/22/08 10:24 AM |
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Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
Name:
Susan
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Re: FYI-
lying is lying. If you state your salary is x and upon verification you lied, it will be up to the hiring manager to determine if they extend the job offer.
The person who lied about his conviction, lied about being convicted.
Not every industry asks you to fill out an application, but if you attest to the info you provide and you "mistate" info, then it seems that you have not been truthful.
This happens in law firms, banks, manufacturing companies and supermarkets. Everywhere.
No, we will not contact your current employer, that's why the W2 or recent pay stub is requested.
Sometimes your previous salary is a barometer of how much experience you have. Not always, but many times.
Lying about your education (even when education is not a requirement of the job) and lying about anything else you stated and attest to is lying.
Not telling the truth when asked a legitimate/legal question and attesting to it makes you less than honest. No?
The purpose of my original post was to let people know that it's always better to be honest. It cost this person a job because she overstated her income and attested to it. I don't know what else she could have "mistated".
Just remembered, my DH had to also provide salary and commission numbers to show how successful of a salesperson he was to his prospective employer. That was in telecom.
Message edited 9/22/2008 10:46:27 AM.
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| Posted 9/22/08 10:44 AM |
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gpsyeyes
She's my world!!!
Member since 8/06 1184 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: FYI-
It just seems to me that this is not a very reliable tool to use to weed out "liars".
Pay stubs and W-2's can be altered, too. Also, as I stated before, they can also be a bad indicator of salary based on many different reasons. That is why I don't think anyone should base any decisions about hiring someone due to whether or not they believe someone was honest about how much money they made. (This is what the original post was, so all the other issues that people may lie about are unrelated).
This doesn't set the playing field even for all applicants if you can't 100% verify all applicant's salary history. So, for example, two people with the same background, experience, etc., are up for the job and only one can verify their salary history, does that mean that the other person does not get the job? What if the one with proof lied - do you hire the other one without proof and hope they didn't lie?
Do you see what I mean? This is not a good tool to use to determine if someone is lying or to make assumptions about their character.
I just would hate to see employers doing this when it is not the most valid way of making decisions about a person. Does that perspective employee get the opportunity to explain themselves once you "determine they lied"? Or, are they just cast off as not worthy of the job because you think they "lied"?
I just think there are too many variables that make up one's salary to use this "method" of weeding out the "bad ones".
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| Posted 9/22/08 11:31 AM |
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Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
Name:
Susan
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Re: FYI-
what you report to the IRS is your income. Your w2, 1099..etc.
If you are not honest with me, I will not trust you. It's totally reliable and many corporations will take your honesty into account before hiring you. If you lie, you are trustworthy? I say not.
If your income can't be verified for some reason then there are other things they will verify in a background check anyway. It's a deceitful practice to lie to prospective employers.
We may differ on this, but I've been on both sides of this. A lot of employers will verify information you attest to and can decide that if you are not truthful, they will not take the chance on you.
Point is, don't lie about anything, mostly your compensation, whether verifyable or not. If you ever had to provide salary history on an application or in a cover letter and you mistate it, you are lying.
There is no point in lying.
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| Posted 9/22/08 11:44 AM |
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gpsyeyes
She's my world!!!
Member since 8/06 1184 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: FYI-
I just think it is naive to think that you shouldn't "lie" about your salary history to a prospective employer. If you haven't been offered a job yet you shouldn't have to provide financial documents to "prove" you are honest or worthy of the position.
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| Posted 9/22/08 11:59 AM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: FYI-
I work for the fed. gov't (as an attorny), and I was asked for a copy of my paystub after I made it to the second round of interviews, so I don't think it's that far fetched. I'm happy I didn't lie about my salary!
Message edited 9/22/2008 12:17:28 PM.
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| Posted 9/22/08 12:17 PM |
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MrsS2005
Mom of 3
Member since 11/05 13118 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: FYI-
Posted by gpsyeyes
I just think it is naive to think that you shouldn't "lie" about your salary history to a prospective employer. If you haven't been offered a job yet you shouldn't have to provide financial documents to "prove" you are honest or worthy of the position.
I think it's naive to think that it's acceptable to lie about your current salary. I honestly don't understand why someone would lie about this especially b/c a prospective employer can find out that you're lying.
Why shouldn't you have to prove that you're honest and worthy of the position? A resume and interview only go so far. If a person can't even be honest about his or her current salary, a prospective employer may question that person's integrity and whether he or she would be a good fit. I understand it's an uncomfrtable question, but I don't think it's out of line to ask it.
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| Posted 9/22/08 12:22 PM |
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DRMom
Two in Blue
Member since 5/05 20223 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: FYI-
Posted by gpsyeyes
It just seems to me that this is not a very reliable tool to use to weed out "liars".
Pay stubs and W-2's can be altered, too. Also, as I stated before, they can also be a bad indicator of salary based on many different reasons. That is why I don't think anyone should base any decisions about hiring someone due to whether or not they believe someone was honest about how much money they made. (This is what the original post was, so all the other issues that people may lie about are unrelated).
This doesn't set the playing field even for all applicants if you can't 100% verify all applicant's salary history. So, for example, two people with the same background, experience, etc., are up for the job and only one can verify their salary history, does that mean that the other person does not get the job? What if the one with proof lied - do you hire the other one without proof and hope they didn't lie?
Do you see what I mean? This is not a good tool to use to determine if someone is lying or to make assumptions about their character.
I just would hate to see employers doing this when it is not the most valid way of making decisions about a person. Does that perspective employee get the opportunity to explain themselves once you "determine they lied"? Or, are they just cast off as not worthy of the job because you think they "lied"?
I just think there are too many variables that make up one's salary to use this "method" of weeding out the "bad ones".
I'm with you. While there may be many companies that ask for this sort of info-there are also many that do not. I am a highly ethical successful employee with a great track record. I do not disclose current salary when I have interviewed for a position. If I am pressed or asked to prove what my salary is, I will kindly decline to interview further. I am in sales and have so many opportunities open to me I do not need to compromise my principles to be hired.
I also insist upon each career move i make to be a vertical one rather than lateral-whether that be better salary, commission structure or bonuses. This issue has been discussed ad nauseum on here and obviously each side feels strongly about their views so I don't knwo if anyone will "convince" anyone else of their POV.
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| Posted 9/22/08 1:25 PM |
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Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
Name:
Susan
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Re: FYI-
Posted by melijane
Posted by gpsyeyes
It just seems to me that this is not a very reliable tool to use to weed out "liars".
Pay stubs and W-2's can be altered, too. Also, as I stated before, they can also be a bad indicator of salary based on many different reasons. That is why I don't think anyone should base any decisions about hiring someone due to whether or not they believe someone was honest about how much money they made. (This is what the original post was, so all the other issues that people may lie about are unrelated).
This doesn't set the playing field even for all applicants if you can't 100% verify all applicant's salary history. So, for example, two people with the same background, experience, etc., are up for the job and only one can verify their salary history, does that mean that the other person does not get the job? What if the one with proof lied - do you hire the other one without proof and hope they didn't lie?
Do you see what I mean? This is not a good tool to use to determine if someone is lying or to make assumptions about their character.
I just would hate to see employers doing this when it is not the most valid way of making decisions about a person. Does that perspective employee get the opportunity to explain themselves once you "determine they lied"? Or, are they just cast off as not worthy of the job because you think they "lied"?
I just think there are too many variables that make up one's salary to use this "method" of weeding out the "bad ones".
I'm with you. While there may be many companies that ask for this sort of info-there are also many that do not. I am a highly ethical successful employee with a great track record. I do not disclose current salary when I have interviewed for a position. If I am pressed or asked to prove what my salary is, I will kindly decline to interview further. I am in sales and have so many opportunities open to me I do not need to compromise my principles to be hired.
I also insist upon each career move i make to be a vertical one rather than lateral-whether that be better salary, commission structure or bonuses. This issue has been discussed ad nauseum on here and obviously each side feels strongly about their views so I don't knwo if anyone will "convince" anyone else of their POV.
Then don't disclose and don't pursue the job.
Just don't lie. That was the point.
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| Posted 9/22/08 1:51 PM |
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bikramaddict
mommy-to-be
Member since 8/06 4376 total posts
Name:
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Re: FYI-
i don't understand why a prospective employer asking for your salary history would make you walk away from the opportunity? can someone explain to me why you feel that's not right? no judgements here, i'm just curious because i never thought it was a big deal.
every job i've ever had (with the exception of my first job out of school obviously) asked how much money I made and I never thought twice about responding. When I was interviewing for my second job, I up'd it $5K and then they beat that by another 7. I'm really lucky they never called to check though and that is something that i will never do again. when i applied for my last job, they asked for a paystub at the very end, it happened literally 15 minutes before i got my offer letter. fortunately i was honest with my answer otherwise i probably would've been f*cked. I certainly wouldn't hire someone who lied about their salary. As was stated above, that would speak to me about morals, integrity, honesty, etc.
if an employer really wants you, my feeling is that they will make you an attractive offer regardless of what you were making. when i applied for the job i have now, i was out of work. this company easily could've offered me less than i was making at my last job and there wouldn't be much i could do since i didn't have the 'i currently have a job' card to play. but they up'd it anyway. and my friend just got a job that almost doubled her salary. In any case, i don't see anything wrong with asking for salary.
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| Posted 9/22/08 3:11 PM |
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LIMOMx2
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Member since 5/05 24989 total posts
Name:
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Re: FYI-
OMG> Some places ask for your W2 or paystub!!!! I would never give them that. I guess I would be jobless forever
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| Posted 9/22/08 4:36 PM |
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