Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

Oy vey

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

Everybody is saying 50 times is excessive....how many cops were there? I mean do you wait and see if your partner pulls the trigger first or do you fire? Things happen so quickly, I am sure they didn't set out to shoot 50 times, however if my life wsa in danger as NYPD I must say I would be shooting as well.

How many times are cops killed? Targeted? and I agree with shoot to kill or do some serious harm. I am not shooting somebody in the leg so they can retaliate.

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

EVERYONE was in the wrong in this situation imo.


-the cop should have showed his badge
-the guys shouldnt have ran
-they shouldnt have run over the cop
-the cops shouldnt have shot 50 times

the kicker is that they were ALL criminals though

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

This is on the Daily News website and I think it's interesting information -

"The Hispanic officer, whose name was not available last night, told other cops that he followed Bell and his buddies from a notorious Queens strip club to his Nissan Altima outside. He said he flashed his shield and yelled to "Show your hands!" before Bell clipped him with the vehicle.

Then he saw the front-seat passenger, later identified as Joseph Guzman, reach toward his waistband, police sources told the Daily News - prompting him to fire 11 rounds at the men, beginning the deadly fusillade."

So, he did identify himself as police and show his shield and they drove the car at him afterwards - no misjudgements there.

Also, in todays news - 2 of the five officers are black, 2 are white and 1 is hispanic - I don't think race really entered into the equation

Lastly - since 1997 the amount of shooting incidents has gone down from 253 to 112 per year and the number of rounds fired has gone from over 1000 to 429 per year.

Maybe this will give some of the people who made uninformed comments on this thread second thoughts.

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

The burning question that I have is why one of the officers reloaded? Without getting into if they should or shouldnt have fired, was it really necessary for one officer to fire 31 bullets?

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

call me crazy i read a few articles today and i didn't realize it is allowable that undercover cops carrying firearms are ALLOWED to drink

something just seems wrong about that

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

Posted by Redhead

call me crazy i read a few articles today and i didn't realize it is allowable that undercover cops carrying firearms are ALLOWED to drink

something just seems wrong about that

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

Posted by Diva

Posted by Redhead

call me crazy i read a few articles today and i didn't realize it is allowable that undercover cops carrying firearms are ALLOWED to drink

something just seems wrong about that

I thought that was strange too, but from what I read, undercovers are allowed two drinks in order to blend in.

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

Posted by Redhead

call me crazy i read a few articles today and i didn't realize it is allowable that undercover cops carrying firearms are ALLOWED to drink

something just seems wrong about that

Message edited 11/28/2006 4:58:41 PM.

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

i can't even read all 16 pages of this, but i read a lot, and of course, i have something to say...
first off, cops are taught to shoot center mass. in essence, to kill, not to wound. for anyone who claims that officers are taught to shoot at an extremity, you haven't the foggiest idea of what you're talking about, so check your facts before spewing nonsense.
as far as the "excessiveness" of the 50 shots... you weren't there. you weren't in the situation. so how do YOU know what was excessive? how does bloomberg say it was excessive? he ALWAYS has something to say about the nypd, but when was the last time he put a vest on and got out on the streets to see what we have to deal with every day?
not to mention that studies have shown that after a shooting, cops generally have NO IDEA how many rounds they fired. do you know you're reloading, sure? but obviously he felt he, or his partners were in immiment danger. if i felt that way, i would shoot until i wasn't in fear for my life anymore. i'm not going to stand there and say "hmmm, how many shots was that? is that too much?"
and for the cops that didn't shoot... some people freeze. such FEAR is instilled in us, as police officers, to worry what the public is thinking and what this job will do to us if we make a mistake or get in a shooting, some people end up sacrificing their saftey for the job. in a police force so large, we are replacable in a heartbeat. and kelly and bloomberg are more worried about keeping the public at bay then they are about backing up their own cops when they should. that's sick. it's sick that i go out on the street and risk my life everyday for less than 40 grand a year, to protect people that hate me, that don't appreciate me, and that will turn on me in an intstant.
everyone is so quick to judge, without knowing the facts. the only FACT is that you will never know what really happened. NEVER. the media will never know. and if they did, they sure as heck wouldn't leak all the info... they only expose what they want to paint whatever picture they would like.
i am not saying that what the cops did was justifiable or not. I wasn't there. but what i am saying is that those cops had a serious reason to do what they did, and who are YOU to judge them? when someone simulates through their pocket, what seems to be a firearm... you tell me how you feel. that did in fact happen that night, and cops are taught to treat a simulated firearm just as serious as a real one. if you believe someone is going to shoot you, you don't twidle your thumbs waiting for them to shoot. that's absurd.
everyone feels so bad for this guys' fiancee... valid. i'm sure she is going through an unimaginable time right now and as a human, i feel for her loss. but no one ever stops to think, hey what about the cops families? what if one of them were killed by being run over by the car, or being shot? what about that? i am a cop and if i believe someone has a firearm, damn right i am going to act on it. i have a husband and a family waiting for me at home too.
this guy didn't deserve to die, perhaps... but the fact that he was at a strip club and then hooking up and leaving with one of the strippers hours before he was about to get married; talking about his piece; and has a criminal history... i can't stand hearing what a stand up guy he is. he's not a stand up citizen so don't act like he is. if you're talking about your weapon and simulating a weapon through your jacket, if you're attempting to run someone over - anyone, cop or not... what the F is going through your head? the media will never paint the entire picture for us... they will never actually tell you upright that there was another guy in the group, in a tan jacket, that fled the scene. hmmm, i wonder why he was running away? and with what? just because a weapon wasn't recovered, doesn't mean it didn't exist. oh, and i wonder where the shell casings that WEREN'T from the officers bullets came from, that were found at the scene?
everyone is sooo quick to judge and sooo quick to pick a side, but in fact everyone just sees and hears what the want to. unless you were there or know the FACTS firsthand, don't pass judgement. and unless you put your life on the line every single day, like we do... don't act like you know what our jobs are like, don't act like you know what you would do in a situation, don't act like you understand our job or what we are taught AT ALL. because you don't. and talking like you do just makes you sound like a moron.

Message edited 11/28/2006 9:44:50 PM.

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

Posted by MrsKelly

i can't even read all 16 pages of this, but i read a lot, and of course, i have something to say...
first off, cops are taught to shoot center mass. in essence, to kill, not to wound. for anyone who claims that officers are taught to shoot at an extremity, you haven't the foggiest idea of what you're talking about, so check your facts before spewing nonsense.
as far as the "excessiveness" of the 50 shots... you weren't there. you weren't in the situation. so how do YOU know what was excessive? how does bloomberg say it was excessive? he ALWAYS has something to say about the nypd, but when was the last time he put a vest on and got out on the streets to see what we have to deal with every day?
not to mention that studies have shown that after a shooting, cops generally have NO IDEA how many rounds they fired. do you know you're reloading, sure? but obviously he felt he, or his partners were in immiment danger. if i felt that way, i would shoot until i wasn't in fear for my life anymore. i'm not going to stand there and say "hmmm, how many shots was that? is that too much?"
and for the cops that didn't shoot... some people freeze. such FEAR is instilled in us, as police officers, to worry what the public is thinking and what this job will do to us if we make a mistake or get in a shooting, some people end up sacrificing their saftey for the job. in a police force so large, we are replacable in a heartbeat. and kelly and bloomberg are more worried about keeping the public at bay then they are about backing up their own cops when they should. that's sick. it's sick that i go out on the street and risk my life everyday for less than 40 grand a year, to protect people that hate me, that don't appreciate me, and that will turn on me in an intstant.
everyone is so quick to judge, without knowing the facts. the only FACT is that you will never know what really happened. NEVER. the media will never know. and if they did, they sure as heck wouldn't leak all the info... they only expose what they want to paint whatever picture they would like.
i am not saying that what the cops did was justifiable or not. I wasn't there. but what i am saying is that those cops had a serious reason to do what they did, and who are YOU to judge them? when someone simulates through their pocket, what seems to be a firearm... you tell me how you feel. that did in fact happen that night, and cops are taught to treat a simulated firearm just as serious as a real one. if you believe someone is going to shoot you, you don't twidle your thumbs waiting for them to shoot. that's absurd.
everyone feels so bad for this guys' fiancee... valid. i'm sure she is going through an unimaginable time right now and as a human, i feel for her loss. but no one ever stops to think, hey what about the cops families? what if one of them were killed by being run over by the car, or being shot? what about that? i am a cop and if i believe someone has a firearm, damn right i am going to act on it. i have a husband and a family waiting for me at home too.
this guy didn't deserve to die, perhaps... but the fact that he was at a strip club and then hooking up and leaving with one of the strippers hours before he was about to get married; talking about his piece; and has a criminal history... i can't stand hearing what a stand up guy he is. he's not a stand up citizen so don't act like he is. if you're talking about your weapon and simulating a weapon through your jacket, if you're attempting to run someone over - anyone, cop or not... what the F is going through your head? the media will never paint the entire picture for us... they will never actually tell you upright that there was another guy in the group, in a tan jacket, that fled the scene. hmmm, i wonder why he was running away? and with what? just because a weapon wasn't recovered, doesn't mean it didn't exist. oh, and i wonder where the shell casings that WEREN'T from the officers bullets came from, that were found at the scene?
everyone is sooo quick to judge and sooo quick to pick a side, but in fact everyone just sees and hears what the want to. unless you were there or know the FACTS firsthand, don't pass judgement. and unless you put your life on the line every single day, like we do... don't act like you know what our jobs are like, don't act like you know what you would do in a situation, don't act like you understand our job or what we are taught AT ALL. because you don't. and talking like you do just makes you sound like a moron.

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

Yes she is.

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

Message edited 11/28/2006 10:08:44 PM.

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

Posted by emilain

Posted by DaniRella

Yes she is.

well that explains her advanced knowledge on this topic

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

Message edited 11/28/2006 10:57:34 PM.

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

Posted by MrsKelly

i can't even read all 16 pages of this, but i read a lot, and of course, i have something to say...
first off, cops are taught to shoot center mass. in essence, to kill, not to wound. for anyone who claims that officers are taught to shoot at an extremity, you haven't the foggiest idea of what you're talking about, so check your facts before spewing nonsense.
as far as the "excessiveness" of the 50 shots... you weren't there. you weren't in the situation. so how do YOU know what was excessive? how does bloomberg say it was excessive? he ALWAYS has something to say about the nypd, but when was the last time he put a vest on and got out on the streets to see what we have to deal with every day?
not to mention that studies have shown that after a shooting, cops generally have NO IDEA how many rounds they fired. do you know you're reloading, sure? but obviously he felt he, or his partners were in immiment danger. if i felt that way, i would shoot until i wasn't in fear for my life anymore. i'm not going to stand there and say "hmmm, how many shots was that? is that too much?"
and for the cops that didn't shoot... some people freeze. such FEAR is instilled in us, as police officers, to worry what the public is thinking and what this job will do to us if we make a mistake or get in a shooting, some people end up sacrificing their saftey for the job. in a police force so large, we are replacable in a heartbeat. and kelly and bloomberg are more worried about keeping the public at bay then they are about backing up their own cops when they should. that's sick. it's sick that i go out on the street and risk my life everyday for less than 40 grand a year, to protect people that hate me, that don't appreciate me, and that will turn on me in an intstant.
everyone is so quick to judge, without knowing the facts. the only FACT is that you will never know what really happened. NEVER. the media will never know. and if they did, they sure as heck wouldn't leak all the info... they only expose what they want to paint whatever picture they would like.
i am not saying that what the cops did was justifiable or not. I wasn't there. but what i am saying is that those cops had a serious reason to do what they did, and who are YOU to judge them? when someone simulates through their pocket, what seems to be a firearm... you tell me how you feel. that did in fact happen that night, and cops are taught to treat a simulated firearm just as serious as a real one. if you believe someone is going to shoot you, you don't twidle your thumbs waiting for them to shoot. that's absurd.
everyone feels so bad for this guys' fiancee... valid. i'm sure she is going through an unimaginable time right now and as a human, i feel for her loss. but no one ever stops to think, hey what about the cops families? what if one of them were killed by being run over by the car, or being shot? what about that? i am a cop and if i believe someone has a firearm, damn right i am going to act on it. i have a husband and a family waiting for me at home too.
this guy didn't deserve to die, perhaps... but the fact that he was at a strip club and then hooking up and leaving with one of the strippers hours before he was about to get married; talking about his piece; and has a criminal history... i can't stand hearing what a stand up guy he is. he's not a stand up citizen so don't act like he is. if you're talking about your weapon and simulating a weapon through your jacket, if you're attempting to run someone over - anyone, cop or not... what the F is going through your head? the media will never paint the entire picture for us... they will never actually tell you upright that there was another guy in the group, in a tan jacket, that fled the scene. hmmm, i wonder why he was running away? and with what? just because a weapon wasn't recovered, doesn't mean it didn't exist. oh, and i wonder where the shell casings that WEREN'T from the officers bullets came from, that were found at the scene?
everyone is sooo quick to judge and sooo quick to pick a side, but in fact everyone just sees and hears what the want to. unless you were there or know the FACTS firsthand, don't pass judgement. and unless you put your life on the line every single day, like we do... don't act like you know what our jobs are like, don't act like you know what you would do in a situation, don't act like you understand our job or what we are taught AT ALL. because you don't. and talking like you do just makes you sound like a moron.

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

MrsKelly-or any cop on LIF

Please dont take offense as this is from my heart-

I am sorry to say this-I am one of the people who have little respect for the "majority" of cops that I meet. But thats because my history with them are bad--either I get hit on or my husband gets disrespected and for those who have met him on LIW you'll know he is one of the sweetest people and a minority who has been abused by NY's finest
---
I can say that here or to any cops face (and I have) but if you hear some of the B$ we have been through you'll understand why my first inclination is to feel disgusted at the incident and feel sorrow for the exB2B. I must admit that its really sketchy how the events are playing out in the media and we may never know all the facts because there is alot of politics involved. Unfortunately the media can paint good cops or bad cops but a person's own experience can influence which side they choose to beleive.

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day

I am not saying it was racially motivated. I am "TRYING" to say that sometimes a persona experience with cops can influence the side of the story they choose to beleive.

Personally I think it was excessive force but thats because I come from a military family so I know first hand about being in danger and having a weapon-imagine if our soldiers were as trigger happy as these cops "may" have been. (we'll never know unless we were there no matter what the media, the cops or may victims say). (please note the may)

I dont dislike all cops-but I do dislike alot of the actions I have seen. Especially since NYPD seems to be recruiting just about everyone-we have friends who just became cops and I wouldnt let them baby sit my kids let alone carry a weapon but they made it in!