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NS1976
My princess!
Member since 5/05 6548 total posts
Name:
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
When a cops life is at danger or at risk (like the fact that a car is coming at them, which is not a minor injury, especially when it repeatedly is coming at them) they have every right to make the determination to shoot. They can't sit and ponder for the next ten minutes about what they want to do. Everything happens in a flash. This all took place in less than a minute. 50 bullets - is that a lot. I'm sorry but no. It's takes 2 seconds to load another cartridge. Not 5 minutes, not 2, not even 1.
I cannot agree more with each and every word said here. Good for you!
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Posted 11/27/06 5:09 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource |
Eva Luna
Be kind...life's hard!
Member since 8/05 4750 total posts
Name:
God, bless & heal my DH, JenG's DH Rob & DebG
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by Hi-Fi55
When a cops life is at danger or at risk (like the fact that a car is coming at them, which is not a minor injury, especially when it repeatedly is coming at them) they have every right to make the determination to shoot. They can't sit and ponder for the next ten minutes about what they want to do. Everything happens in a flash. This all took place in less than a minute. 50 bullets - is that a lot. I'm sorry but no. It's takes 2 seconds to load another cartridge. Not 5 minutes, not 2, not even 1.
They do not...I'm re-quoting myself. It seems that not all responses are read. 
The police department's policy on shooting at moving vehicles states: "Police officers shall not discharge their firearms at or from a moving vehicle, unless deadly force is being used against the police officers or another person present, by means other than a moving vehicle.''
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| Posted 11/27/06 5:12 PM |
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LuvMyDH
LIF Adolescent
Member since 10/05 882 total posts
Name:
K
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Maybe if Al Sharpton stopped sticking his nose in crap like this, the while black/white/hispanic thing wouldn't always rear it's ugly head.
Now I'm not an Al Sharpton fan AT ALL... As a matter of fact I hate his guts. But you mean to tell me this becoming a race issue is his fault?
Honestly, the problem that makes this a race issue is the fact that minorities have little trust for the NYPD because of NYPD's past mistakes. So when those issues are addressed between the minority community and the NYPD only then can we try to rectify the problem. This wasn't a race issue, somehow, some way there was a break down in communication...
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| Posted 11/27/06 5:16 PM |
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NS1976
My princess!
Member since 5/05 6548 total posts
Name:
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Honestly, the problem that makes this a race issue is the fact that minorities have little trust for the NYPD because of NYPD's past mistakes. So when those issues are addressed between the minority community and the NYPD only then can we try to rectify the problem. This wasn't a race issue, somehow, some way there was a break down in communication...
I just wanted to say that I totally respect you and the way you so eloquently put things.
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| Posted 11/27/06 5:20 PM |
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DandN
Twins are here!
Member since 3/06 3597 total posts
Name:
Deirdre
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
At this point I dont see how anyone can, with 100% certainty say (or write) that one side was completely in the right and the other was completely in the wrong.
The young men exited a club in jamaica in the early hours of the morning. According to today's newsday, some of them had records (the paper also mentioned that they may have been juvenile offenses).
Obviously something happened - and NONE of us know exactly what that was. Did they say they had a gun? Were they profiled? Did the police identify themselves?
A police officer (and later the minivan) was struck by the car. A lot of people are writing that the young men were attacking the police with their vehicle. That may be so - but people are also writing that firing 50 shots can happen "so quickly." Might the car backing up (the first time) have been accidental? maybe - WE DONT KNOW.
Remember lizzie grubman backing her car into all those people in the hamptons? She claimed it was accidental. we dont have to believe her - but that was her story.
The car then hit the minivan - certainly, it's hard to see where this is anything but intentional - but again, people panic - perhaps they were intoxicated - I DONT KNOW ENOUGH AT THIS POINT.
The police fired 50 shots. I'm sure a lot of them panicked as well. I'm sure it all happened incredibly quickly and I'm sure everyone is still trying to sort out what happened.
Does 50 shots seem excessive to me? sure. But have I ever fired a gun? no. I have no idea what being in that situation would be like.
And have I ever been racially profiled? no. But the reality is that many people in this city are. When I used to teach in the CUNY system I asked my students how many of them had been pulled over or stopped and searched (this was in the late 90s) and the results were alarming.
I think EVERYONE is in agreement that 50 shots is too many and that the NYPD is full of incredibly selfless, brave men and women who thankfully put their lives on the line for us every day.
I tire of Rev. Al Sharpton showing up - particularly when today there was the sentencing for the young man who shot two undercover NYPD officers in 2003 (at close range). Both officers were black. Where was Sharpton when these black officers were killed? Where was his outrage?
BUT - when Al Sharpton gets involved, the story gets bigger - and for the families who need to find out what is going on - for a community who wants answers, he can be a welcome sight. He has more political clout than any of the families do at this point.
I'm not calling for Kelly's firing from the NYPD - but I also tire of people immediately blaming the victim and saying that the NYPD is completely justified.
It's a tragedy what happened. mistakes were made on both sides.
But let's try and see what facts come out before deciding who's right and who's wrong.
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| Posted 11/27/06 5:28 PM |
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Hi-Fi55
12 years...wow....
Member since 2/06 2984 total posts
Name:
Dianne
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by LuvMyDH
Maybe if Al Sharpton stopped sticking his nose in crap like this, the while black/white/hispanic thing wouldn't always rear it's ugly head.
Now I'm not an Al Sharpton fan AT ALL... As a matter of fact I hate his guts. But you mean to tell me this becoming a race issue is his fault?
Honestly, the problem that makes this a race issue is the fact that minorities have little trust for the NYPD because of NYPD's past mistakes. So when those issues are addressed between the minority community and the NYPD only then can we try to rectify the problem. This wasn't a race issue, somehow, some way there was a break down in communication...
I'll address both of the above posts.
First - fine don't shoot at the moving vehicle, except they did mention earlier something about a gun, so there was reason to believe they were armed with a gun. Like I said, they have to respond in an instant. They can't sit and ponder all day long.
Second - It's not completely Al Sharpton's fault, but let's be real, when does he not stick his head into this kind of action, when he doesn't want to draw attention to race. And the fact that he shows up to the victim's hospital bed. That man is a disgrace.
The reason minorities have little trust for NYPD is because they choose to. Everyone makes mistakes. You can sit back and dwell on them for the next few hundred years or accept the past and move forward.
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| Posted 11/27/06 5:29 PM |
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dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
So just now on the news they are saying the first shot was fired after the groom hit the undercover cop9 bumped him with his car). Thats reason to shoot?
What if it was an accident?
They said they banged the car ( the undercover cops car) trying to GET AWAY from the bullets being fired at them.
Not sure how much of this will be proven to be true fact or not, but based on what was seen, 50 shots was excessive and not needed ( as the mayor agrees)
Also NO breathalizers were given to the cops coming from a strip bar who admitted to drinking. ( which to me is scary as hell that cops are allowed to drink on the job and just make sure they stop after 2.....but carry a deadly weapon
Message edited 11/27/2006 5:34:37 PM.
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| Posted 11/27/06 5:32 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
It's just as unfair to judge the cops as racists as it is to judge the 4 men who were shot based on their records.
It's just as bad to say all cops are racist and that incidednts like the Diallo incident are just "NYPD being NYPD."
I am the first person to say there is racial profiling and it is wrong, and that there ARE racist cops out there abusing power, but I would NEVER ever generalize about thousands of hard working police officers who risk their lives to keep our city safe. You can't judge an entire police force based on a few bad apples any more than you can judge someone by the color of their skin (the 23 year old in the BMW).
I think people who have been discriminated against especially need to take a hard look at the way they, in turn are discriminating against others.
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| Posted 11/27/06 6:13 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
I find it all very disgraceful
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| Posted 11/27/06 6:17 PM |
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LuvMyDH
LIF Adolescent
Member since 10/05 882 total posts
Name:
K
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by nycchic24
Honestly, the problem that makes this a race issue is the fact that minorities have little trust for the NYPD because of NYPD's past mistakes. So when those issues are addressed between the minority community and the NYPD only then can we try to rectify the problem. This wasn't a race issue, somehow, some way there was a break down in communication...
I just wanted to say that I totally respect you and the way you so eloquently put things.
Thanks
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| Posted 11/27/06 6:34 PM |
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2PreciousBlessings
The Perfect Pair
Member since 5/06 19861 total posts
Name:
Best Wife & Mommy
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by Redhead
I find it all very disgraceful
I agree!!! This whole thread surely leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I am so distraught by alot of hurtful comments.
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| Posted 11/27/06 6:35 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by Moosey911
OK....I am so done with this subject...obviously LI is filled with many liberal bleeding hearts and I won't win b/c ya'll just continue to turn my words around. Try reading ALL of my posts and then MAYBE you'll see my point.
Another generalization.
I don't think that generalizing against the police or anything else you're angry about has anything to do with being liberal. I'm sure there are some people who would say I'm the most liberal person on LIF, and I defended the police in my last post.
Everyone needs to stop generalizing, about police, about black men, about liberals, about everyone
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| Posted 11/27/06 6:35 PM |
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LuvMyDH
LIF Adolescent
Member since 10/05 882 total posts
Name:
K
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by Hi-Fi55
Posted by LuvMyDH
Maybe if Al Sharpton stopped sticking his nose in crap like this, the while black/white/hispanic thing wouldn't always rear it's ugly head.
Now I'm not an Al Sharpton fan AT ALL... As a matter of fact I hate his guts. But you mean to tell me this becoming a race issue is his fault?
Honestly, the problem that makes this a race issue is the fact that minorities have little trust for the NYPD because of NYPD's past mistakes. So when those issues are addressed between the minority community and the NYPD only then can we try to rectify the problem. This wasn't a race issue, somehow, some way there was a break down in communication...
I'll address both of the above posts.
First - fine don't shoot at the moving vehicle, except they did mention earlier something about a gun, so there was reason to believe they were armed with a gun. Like I said, they have to respond in an instant. They can't sit and ponder all day long.
Second - It's not completely Al Sharpton's fault, but let's be real, when does he not stick his head into this kind of action, when he doesn't want to draw attention to race. And the fact that he shows up to the victim's hospital bed. That man is a disgrace.
The reason minorities have little trust for NYPD is because they choose to. Everyone makes mistakes. You can sit back and dwell on them for the next few hundred years or accept the past and move forward.
I agree that Al Sharpton is a disgrace...
However, it's not a choice to not be able to trust NYPD. I have to deal with the fact that I have a young African-American son who I want to be able to tell go out and have fun. Go ahead an ask an officer if your lost for directions. But I also have to warn him that all officers aren't as nice as his uncle and aunt who are on the force. I have to teach him just as many of you do that all people may have ulterior motives, but some times this person may carry a badge, a gun and wear blue.
You can't say its a choice for minority distrust. Until you have been a witness to what can happen when a bigot gets a badge, you can't see the destruction.
I'm not saying that I think that happened in this case, nor am I saying that I believe the whole Department is bad. I for one believe there are some bad apples in the batch who ruin the way the whole department looks.
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| Posted 11/27/06 6:48 PM |
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MrsS2005
Mom of 3
Member since 11/05 13118 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by LuvMyDH
I tried not to get involved in this thread, but I find it hard not to... I knew the groom and got very emotional just by reading all of the prvious posts... and its sad to see how this has whole thread has turned into something that it shouldnt have.
As was stated, we all do not know the facts and can not pass judgement. But I don't care what wnyone says 50 shots is EXCESSIVE...
I'll probably just end up rambling on this post but, this whole issue has been turned into the NYPD against the world and it shouldn't be.
I agree that we don't know all of the facts and shouldn't pass judgment. That also means not passing judgment on what the cops did. 50 shots (fired by several officers) may seem excessive to someone who has never fired a gun, but perhaps it wasn't excessive in this type of situation. We can speculate, but unless we know the whole story, I don't think we can determine whether their actions were justified.
If the men used the car as a deadly weapon and tried to run over a person, regardless of whether that person was a cop, I think the cops have a right to use whatever force necessary to stop it. I'm not saying they needed to fire 50 shots, but since I've never been in that type of situation, I can't say what they did was wrong either.
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| Posted 11/27/06 7:06 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
call me a crackhead but i think you can form an opinion based on the article..
Do we ever really know ALL the facts?
Do you think we ever really know the TRUTH..?
we know what the article says...and form an opinion thus far...
I am sure that could change based what comes to light in the future
But i too stand by 50 shots is BEYOND excessive
and to say that ...well 50 shots could go off in the matter of seconds
SO WHAT...these officers are TRAINED to fire those guns..
50 shots is VERY excessive IMO
shameful
Message edited 11/27/2006 7:14:50 PM.
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| Posted 11/27/06 7:13 PM |
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Beth
The Key to your new home....
Member since 2/06 24849 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
according the mayor- it's excessive
and it go against their training
now they are saying it was a frenzy shooting- when one officer fires- they all join in
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| Posted 11/27/06 7:20 PM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by Beth1210
according the mayor- it's excessive
and it go against their training
now they are saying it was a frenzy shooting- when one officer fires- they all join in
they have used that "excuse" more times than one. I remember them saying the same thing when Amadou Dialo was shot.....was he a savage too? Oh, that's right, he was an INNOCENT man who was killed for NO reason....some cops have itchy trigger fingers I guess....whatever the case may be, it is a shame what happened.
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| Posted 11/27/06 7:23 PM |
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Beth
The Key to your new home....
Member since 2/06 24849 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
it really is such a shame- 2 childern wont know their father
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| Posted 11/27/06 7:26 PM |
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NS1976
My princess!
Member since 5/05 6548 total posts
Name:
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
I just wonder how many of us think about all the times that it could happen compared to the times that it actually does happen. Not that it makes it right on anyone's part but in my opinion I think we "could" hear so many more of these horror stories and we do not. I think thats pretty good considering what the cops have to face out there no?
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| Posted 11/27/06 7:27 PM |
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MrsS2005
Mom of 3
Member since 11/05 13118 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by Redhead
call me a crackhead but i think you can form an opinion based on the article..
Do we ever really know ALL the facts?
Do you think we ever really know the TRUTH..?
we know what the article says...and form an opinion thus far...
I am sure that could change based what comes to light in the future
But i too stand by 50 shots is BEYOND excessive
and to say that ...well 50 shots could go off in the matter of seconds
SO WHAT...these officers are TRAINED to fire those guns..
50 shots is VERY excessive IMO
shameful
Obviously people will form opinions based on the information available. I'm just saying that if we shouldn't pass judgment on the victims, we shouldn't pass judgment on the cops without getting the full picture. We probably won't ever know the whole story, but since most of us have never been in a similar situation, how can we say unequivocally that 50 shots is excessive?
Is it the number of shots that make it excessive or is it excessive simply b/c they used their guns?
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| Posted 11/27/06 7:32 PM |
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LuvMyDH
LIF Adolescent
Member since 10/05 882 total posts
Name:
K
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by MrsS2005
Posted by LuvMyDH
I tried not to get involved in this thread, but I find it hard not to... I knew the groom and got very emotional just by reading all of the prvious posts... and its sad to see how this has whole thread has turned into something that it shouldnt have.
As was stated, we all do not know the facts and can not pass judgement. But I don't care what wnyone says 50 shots is EXCESSIVE...
I'll probably just end up rambling on this post but, this whole issue has been turned into the NYPD against the world and it shouldn't be.
I agree that we don't know all of the facts and shouldn't pass judgment. That also means not passing judgment on what the cops did. 50 shots (fired by several officers) may seem excessive to someone who has never fired a gun, but perhaps it wasn't excessive in this type of situation. We can speculate, but unless we know the whole story, I don't think we can determine whether their actions were justified.
If the men used the car as a deadly weapon and tried to run over a person, regardless of whether that person was a cop, I think the cops have a right to use whatever force necessary to stop it. I'm not saying they needed to fire 50 shots, but since I've never been in that type of situation, I can't say what they did was wrong either.
Let me ask this question. Now once again we are all speculating here, but according to the ONLY survivor... (The other guy who was hit 11 times died yesterday morning) They did not know they were cops... So if you see 7 men dressed in street clothes coming at you with guns, what is the first thing you are going to do? I know what I would do... I would hit the gas and hit everything in the way to get out of there, including the person that was trying to shoot at me. Now if that is the case do you still think 50 shots arent excessive?
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| Posted 11/27/06 7:32 PM |
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LuvMyDH
LIF Adolescent
Member since 10/05 882 total posts
Name:
K
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by nycchic24
I just wonder how many of us think about all the times that it could happen compared to the times that it actually does happen. Not that it makes it right on anyone's part but in my opinion I think we "could" hear so many more of these horror stories and we do not. I think thats pretty good considering what the cops have to face out there no?
I 100% agree
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| Posted 11/27/06 7:35 PM |
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MrsS2005
Mom of 3
Member since 11/05 13118 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by LuvMyDH
Posted by MrsS2005
Posted by LuvMyDH
I tried not to get involved in this thread, but I find it hard not to... I knew the groom and got very emotional just by reading all of the prvious posts... and its sad to see how this has whole thread has turned into something that it shouldnt have.
As was stated, we all do not know the facts and can not pass judgement. But I don't care what wnyone says 50 shots is EXCESSIVE...
I'll probably just end up rambling on this post but, this whole issue has been turned into the NYPD against the world and it shouldn't be.
I agree that we don't know all of the facts and shouldn't pass judgment. That also means not passing judgment on what the cops did. 50 shots (fired by several officers) may seem excessive to someone who has never fired a gun, but perhaps it wasn't excessive in this type of situation. We can speculate, but unless we know the whole story, I don't think we can determine whether their actions were justified.
If the men used the car as a deadly weapon and tried to run over a person, regardless of whether that person was a cop, I think the cops have a right to use whatever force necessary to stop it. I'm not saying they needed to fire 50 shots, but since I've never been in that type of situation, I can't say what they did was wrong either.
Let me ask this question. Now once again we are all speculating here, but according to the ONLY survivor... (The other guy who was hit 11 times died yesterday morning) They did not know they were cops... So if you see 7 men dressed in street clothes coming at you with guns, what is the first thing you are going to do? I know what I would do... I would hit the gas and hit everything in the way to get out of there, including the person that was trying to shoot at me. Now if that is the case do you still think 50 shots arent excessive?
According to the article that was posted, the minivan struck the pedestrian/cop, and then the officers responded by firing. To me, that seems like they were afraid for their safety. I didn't see anything similar to your account of what happened.
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| Posted 11/27/06 7:39 PM |
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Jax430
Hi!
Member since 5/05 18919 total posts
Name:
Jackie
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
I am trying to read and hear as little about this as possible, so I'm not forming an opinion right now. I am trying to remain unbiased as at least one news article said that this case will go to grand jury this week.
Guess who is currently on the Queens County Grand Jury?
There are 3 juries, but the one I'm sitting on is the main one...we are all wondering if we are going to get the case. It should be very interesting.
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| Posted 11/27/06 7:40 PM |
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june262004
But I love the Snow!
Member since 5/05 15379 total posts
Name:
Kristin
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by Jax430
I am trying to read and hear as little about this as possible, so I'm not forming an opinion right now. I am trying to remain unbiased as at least one news article said that this case will go to grand jury this week.
Guess who is currently on the Queens County Grand Jury?
There are 3 juries, but the one I'm sitting on is the main one...we are all wondering if we are going to get the case. It should be very interesting.
WOW! 
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| Posted 11/27/06 7:41 PM |
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