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MrsM-6-7-08
<3
Member since 8/06 4249 total posts
Name:
Nicole
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Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
This is just a vent, because i had plans today with my mom and neice, and I had to cancel.
The secretary and the sales assistant are both out sick, this is like the 30th time this year, and no they aren't friends.
The secretary has over 45 sick days since january, and the sales girl has 40 sick days.
Is this normal? I am just at a loss, this happens at least 1-3 times a week.
eta: they do not get paid, they get 5 sick days, 3 personal, so those have been used up a long time ago, They get docked pay, the sales girl was out 5 days a few weeks ago and didn't even get a check...Do people not need money?
Message edited 9/14/2009 9:25:16 AM.
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Posted 9/14/09 9:23 AM  |
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Christine
2nd verse same as the 1st
Member since 5/05 15287 total posts
Name:
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
No, that is not normal at all and it's an issue management should deal with. In extreme situations like this, it's not a matter of the employess not being paid but you need people that will show up and do their job.
Message edited 9/14/2009 9:30:04 AM.
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| Posted 9/14/09 9:29 AM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
Posted by Christine
No, that is not normal at all and it's an issue management should deal with. In extreme situations like this, it's not a matter of the employess not being paid but you need people that will show up and do their job.
I used to work in an office when 1 person did this. I had to address it because what it was not fair to other people. It really means it that if one person can "afford" to work without pay, what they are really doing it getting benefits from a FT job but only working PT. Meanwhile everybody else is covering from them on a constant basis. You can never make plans because the person may or may not be there. Completely unreliable.
The end solution for our case was that the person take FMLA and make it official.
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| Posted 9/14/09 9:35 AM |
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MrsFab
this is bliss.......
Member since 10/08 1234 total posts
Name:
Mb
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
I'm sorry 40 sick days? No thats not normal- I would fire them
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| Posted 9/14/09 9:38 AM |
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Grill
LIF Adult
Member since 4/09 994 total posts
Name:
J
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
Maybe consider adopting a progressive discipline policy. Create a definition of Excessive Use of Time Off and hold people accountable (ex: more than 3 times in a 60 day period is considered excessive and will be subject ot disciplinary action, which could lead to termination). Not only will this deter high frequency absenteeism, it could also curb your unemployment insurance expenses. Or, you could implement financial incentives for NOT calling out in a cetain period....Sometimes the positive reinforcement is a better way to go, especially in small companies where morale is critical to survival. Good Luck...sorry that you had to go in today!
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| Posted 9/14/09 9:51 AM |
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Lucky2008
LIF Adult
Member since 5/08 1005 total posts
Name:
Chris
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
this is so not normal at all. 45 days year to date?? That is excessive.
These people are just not reliable employees and reliability is very important to not only the employer but other employees.
There definately should be some kind of disciplinary action. I have a similar situation in my office and a lot of the slack falls on me and I can be resentful at times b/c this person doesn't cover for me on the rare occasion that I am out.
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| Posted 9/14/09 10:34 AM |
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Kara
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Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
Beyond excessive. That is more than a MONTH's worth of days.
Unless they have some sort of serious medical condition, there should be consequences for their actions. I have unlimited sick days and I can guarantee you that if I took 40 sick days in a year without ACTUALLY being very sick, I would no longer be employed.
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| Posted 9/14/09 10:39 AM |
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Cpt2007
A new love!
Member since 1/08 5946 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
not normal. that would seem to me to be an abuse of an unenforced leave policy. your office manager should approach both and ask them to fill out FMLA paperwork as a start or read them the riot act and tell them that they have 2 weeks to find a new job.
I seem to remember you once posting that this is your DH's family owned business, correct? If it is a small business, believe you are within your rights as owners to fire them, provided you have documented history of their absences in case they try to sue for a wrongful termination.
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| Posted 9/14/09 11:02 AM |
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MrsM-6-7-08
<3
Member since 8/06 4249 total posts
Name:
Nicole
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
Posted by Cpt2007
not normal. that would seem to me to be an abuse of an unenforced leave policy. your office manager should approach both and ask them to fill out FMLA paperwork as a start or read them the riot act and tell them that they have 2 weeks to find a new job.
I seem to remember you once posting that this is your DH's family owned business, correct? If it is a small business, believe you are within your rights as owners to fire them, provided you have documented history of their absences in case they try to sue for a wrongful termination.
Thankfully we are not bound by the FMLA, you need 50 or more employees.
The hardship would be firing and hiring and training 2 new people, which is what this has come down too. They just constantly have new excuses, todays excuse there was a gas leak and her house almost exploded. previous times, we have never even gotten a phone call at all.
This is my DH's business, not his families, his dad is a CPA, My DH is the sole owner and its a technology/security company.
Just so frustrating 
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| Posted 9/14/09 11:43 AM |
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Peainapod
Peanuts are here!
Member since 1/09 13591 total posts
Name:
Diana
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
Posted by MrsFab
I'm sorry 40 sick days? No thats not normal- I would fire them
thats the equivalent of 8 5-day work weeks. thats insane.
at my job, the persons with manager titles (myself included) get "unlimited" sick and personal time..however that is not to be abused. My coworker in the past has called out in early january after being off for 2 weeks at xmas time, and probably racked up about 40 "sick" days.
She's been here 20+ years so i guess thats why my boss tolerates it..
but really, thats BS the amount of days taken.
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| Posted 9/14/09 11:44 AM |
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eroxgirl
My Loves
Member since 5/05 15697 total posts
Name:
Rebecca
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
There are thousands of people on the unemployment line who would be happy for a job right now - put an ad out there and start interviewing replacements ASAP!
If these people don't value their jobs (and with 40 and 45 sick days this year clearly they DONT) then they shouldn't have them. I was able to get 6 weeks maternity leave at full pay because I had almost that much sick and vacation time left over from the previous two years.
I hate people who take advantage! 
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| Posted 9/14/09 11:59 AM |
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kimbalina
Bring on the glitter and bows!
Member since 6/08 15158 total posts
Name:
Kim
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
Fire them if you are unhappy. Sounds like the boss lets them get away with it.. so why would they stop.
Sorry you had to cancel your plans
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| Posted 9/14/09 12:18 PM |
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Cpt2007
A new love!
Member since 1/08 5946 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
Posted by MrsM-6-7-08
The hardship would be firing and hiring and training 2 new people, which is what this has come down too. They just constantly have new excuses, todays excuse there was a gas leak and her house almost exploded. previous times, we have never even gotten a phone call at all.
I think at this point it is worth it to fire them both and train two new people. There are thousands of people who are unemployed and looking for work. Employee morale isn't the only thing that will suffer-- your business will to if you can't get the work done.
But the bottom line is that these two have taken advantage of your business b/c they knew they could get away with it without consequences.
I think it might be time to draft a very strict leave policy that states that abuse of said policy leads to firing. *And when there is abuse, follow through on the threat and fire them.*
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| Posted 9/14/09 12:27 PM |
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tourist
Member since 5/05 10425 total posts
Name:
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
That's crazy. I don't think I have taken 45 sick days in the 11 years I have been at my job.
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| Posted 9/14/09 12:33 PM |
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MrsFab
this is bliss.......
Member since 10/08 1234 total posts
Name:
Mb
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
Posted by MrsM-6-7-08
The hardship would be firing and hiring and training 2 new people, which is what this has come down too.
Nicole- if they are out that often, my guess would be that they are looking for new jobs and if thats the case, you will need to start training someone anyway.
Also think about the the employees that follow the rules and are not out that often- if you dont do anything to these two, how will your good employees feel?
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| Posted 9/14/09 12:37 PM |
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Kara
Now Zagat Rated!
Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
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They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
Posted by MrsM-6-7-08
Posted by Cpt2007
not normal. that would seem to me to be an abuse of an unenforced leave policy. your office manager should approach both and ask them to fill out FMLA paperwork as a start or read them the riot act and tell them that they have 2 weeks to find a new job.
I seem to remember you once posting that this is your DH's family owned business, correct? If it is a small business, believe you are within your rights as owners to fire them, provided you have documented history of their absences in case they try to sue for a wrongful termination.
Thankfully we are not bound by the FMLA, you need 50 or more employees.
The hardship would be firing and hiring and training 2 new people, which is what this has come down too. They just constantly have new excuses, todays excuse there was a gas leak and her house almost exploded. previous times, we have never even gotten a phone call at all.
This is my DH's business, not his families, his dad is a CPA, My DH is the sole owner and its a technology/security company.
Just so frustrating
Wouldn't hiring and training employees who will show up to work be in the best interests of the business, though, and well worth the time and effort?
You have employees who have taken a month and a half off so far this year, OVER AND ABOVE the leave they are allowed to take. I think consequences should have been in place sooner. There are PLENTY of people out there who would LOVE a nice job right now -- and they would actually show up to do it.
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| Posted 9/14/09 12:54 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
Posted by Kara
Posted by MrsM-6-7-08
Posted by Cpt2007
not normal. that would seem to me to be an abuse of an unenforced leave policy. your office manager should approach both and ask them to fill out FMLA paperwork as a start or read them the riot act and tell them that they have 2 weeks to find a new job.
I seem to remember you once posting that this is your DH's family owned business, correct? If it is a small business, believe you are within your rights as owners to fire them, provided you have documented history of their absences in case they try to sue for a wrongful termination.
Thankfully we are not bound by the FMLA, you need 50 or more employees.
The hardship would be firing and hiring and training 2 new people, which is what this has come down too. They just constantly have new excuses, todays excuse there was a gas leak and her house almost exploded. previous times, we have never even gotten a phone call at all.
This is my DH's business, not his families, his dad is a CPA, My DH is the sole owner and its a technology/security company.
Just so frustrating
Wouldn't hiring and training employees who will show up to work be in the best interests of the business, though, and well worth the time and effort?
You have employees who have taken a month and a half off so far this year, OVER AND ABOVE the leave they are allowed to take. I think consequences should have been in place sooner. There are PLENTY of people out there who would LOVE a nice job right now -- and they would actually show up to do it.
I completely agree with the above. Not sure if these employees have benefits but in my opinion there is no use in having a trained employee who doesn't show up for 45 days out of the 260 work days of the year.
Document their absences & change the policy to require a doctor's note to HR for excessive absences.
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| Posted 9/14/09 1:07 PM |
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Stacey1403
Where it all began....
Member since 5/05 24065 total posts
Name:
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
Posted by kimbalina
Fire them if you are unhappy. Sounds like the boss lets them get away with it.. so why would they stop.
Sorry you had to cancel your plans
Yep! They do it because he lets them! Maybe keep the lesser of two evils and train someone and if the other person doesn't shape up get rid of them when the other is fully trained!
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| Posted 9/14/09 1:23 PM |
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eroxgirl
My Loves
Member since 5/05 15697 total posts
Name:
Rebecca
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
Something else I want to point out (in case you haven't been convinced that these people need to be fired yet)...
At my previous job I worked for a very small firm - 5 people from top to bottom. One of them got away with MURDER. Late every.single.day, would take off every month for cramps, etc. and never reprimanded for any of it. The office manager WANTED to, but the boss always let it slide and would tell the office manager to lay off. It created a horrible work environment - everyone was resentful of her special treatment and their job performance declined as a result. That one employee is still there (and why should she leave when she makes a great salary for the work she does?) but everyone else has left and the place is practically falling apart.
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| Posted 9/14/09 1:33 PM |
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LightUpOurLife
Totally in love
Member since 8/06 12785 total posts
Name:
Bonnie-Jean
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
If I was one of your 'good' employees that show up all the time I would be pizzed that the boss lets this go on without any penalty. These are grownups, right?
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| Posted 9/14/09 1:34 PM |
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MrsM-6-7-08
<3
Member since 8/06 4249 total posts
Name:
Nicole
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
Posted by BJandDan
If I was one of your 'good' employees that show up all the time I would be pizzed that the boss lets this go on without any penalty. These are grownups, right?
Its very frustrating for the good employees, fortunately the penalty is docked paychecks, but Its not enough, I am putting an AD up and going to start looking.
I think the reason we put up with it, is because the secretary is very good at collections, when she is here, she does an amazing job with the billing and keeping everyone paying on time, and the monthly billing through quickbooks.
I had a few secretaries before her we had to fire because they refused to make any phone calls to collect payments, they told us they just wanted to answer the phone.
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| Posted 9/14/09 1:58 PM |
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jellybean78
:)
Member since 8/06 13103 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
40+ sick days That is crazy.
We have unlimited sick time at my job but it's an unofficial rule that any more than 7 sick days a year is excessive (unless of course you are out on disability or are hospitalized). 40 sick days is abusive.
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| Posted 9/14/09 2:00 PM |
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Kara
Now Zagat Rated!
Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
Name:
They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
Posted by MrsM-6-7-08
Posted by BJandDan
If I was one of your 'good' employees that show up all the time I would be pizzed that the boss lets this go on without any penalty. These are grownups, right?
Its very frustrating for the good employees, fortunately the penalty is docked paychecks, but Its not enough, I am putting an AD up and going to start looking.
I think the reason we put up with it, is because the secretary is very good at collections, when she is here, she does an amazing job with the billing and keeping everyone paying on time, and the monthly billing through quickbooks.
I had a few secretaries before her we had to fire because they refused to make any phone calls to collect payments, they told us they just wanted to answer the phone.
Knowing this now, that is hopefully something you can weed out in ther interview process. I'd also be really clear about it in the job description / job posting so employees know exactly what will be expected of them.
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| Posted 9/14/09 2:34 PM |
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KLSbear
LIF Adult
Member since 1/06 1908 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
Posted by MrsM-6-7-08
Posted by BJandDan
If I was one of your 'good' employees that show up all the time I would be pizzed that the boss lets this go on without any penalty. These are grownups, right?
Its very frustrating for the good employees, fortunately the penalty is docked paychecks, but Its not enough, I am putting an AD up and going to start looking.
I think the reason we put up with it, is because the secretary is very good at collections, when she is here, she does an amazing job with the billing and keeping everyone paying on time, and the monthly billing through quickbooks.
I had a few secretaries before her we had to fire because they refused to make any phone calls to collect payments, they told us they just wanted to answer the phone.
Maybe you should ask her if she'd officially like to work part time, so you at least know when she'll be in - shorter days or 3 or 4 days a week. Get someone else to fill in a day or two a week just to answer phones and do routine basics.
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| Posted 9/14/09 6:37 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Just a Vent...why can't people show up to work
Posted by MrsM-6-7-08
Posted by BJandDan
If I was one of your 'good' employees that show up all the time I would be pizzed that the boss lets this go on without any penalty. These are grownups, right?
Its very frustrating for the good employees, fortunately the penalty is docked paychecks, but Its not enough, I am putting an AD up and going to start looking.
I think the reason we put up with it, is because the secretary is very good at collections, when she is here, she does an amazing job with the billing and keeping everyone paying on time, and the monthly billing through quickbooks.
I had a few secretaries before her we had to fire because they refused to make any phone calls to collect payments, they told us they just wanted to answer the phone.
The main problem is that she is working when SHE wants. Not when your DH wants.
The person I worked with did not care she was not being paid. She was living with a relative with very little rent. So she did not care. She did not need the money. If she did, she would start working more 1 month.
She was off about 10-11 days per month.
The problem is that everybody else thinks SHE has a special treatment. Why can't THEY do the same? KWIM?
This is a toxic environement for the other employees.
Docked pay is not enough. The rules need to be followed or created.
You can't just take unlimited time off.
Who's the boss? Otherwise, create the position as a PT position.
Don't they have policies regarding sick time and leave?
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| Posted 9/14/09 8:48 PM |
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