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New evals- thoughts?
Now that Cuomo and co. have settled the issue, what are your thoughts? I feel like I'm still reading conflicting info about the role of test scores. It also seems like a good deal still has to be determined.
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Posted 2/17/12 8:44 PM  |
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kgs11
LIF Adult
Member since 2/07 1424 total posts
Name:
Kim
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
any evaluation that takes test scores into consideration concerns me. there are too many variables out of my control as a classroom teacher.
i also dont think its fair as a testing grade teacher. what state are grades k-2 using?
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| Posted 2/18/12 8:29 AM |
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Erica
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 11767 total posts
Name:
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
K-3 and special area cannot be evaluate by state tests.
I don't like the idea at all, but my district is only getting ~$2k/year of race to the top money, so they are thinking about not bothering with this new evaluation.
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| Posted 2/18/12 8:33 AM |
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My2Girlz11
LIF Adolescent
Member since 1/11 785 total posts
Name:
Corrie
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
I have a HUGE issue with evaluating ME based on test scores. I have children being pulled out all day long. TEachers taking out for AIS, Speech, OT, PT, ELL, and for extreme behaviors. Are those teachers or therapists that are pulling my kids sharing some of the responsibility?
How are the tests being used though? ARe they comparing growth from the ELA 3rd grade test compared to the ELA test when they take it in fourth grade? I have a problem with something like this. The two tests are different and other factors could affect the score. However, if they are gving the students a pretest in Sept and an exit test at the end of the year, and it shows how much they have learned. I don't have a problem with that at all.
I also think they need to take into consideration and factor in how many times a kids has been late or absent. As a teacher, I am not responsible for waking my students up and getting them to school. As a parent, I make sure my kids are at school.
Then you get those from the DOE saying that the kids are absent because teacher's lesons aren't motivating enough. (serious this is what we were told at a meeting)
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| Posted 2/18/12 10:00 AM |
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Sweetlax22
LIF Adult
Member since 5/10 1904 total posts
Name:
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
The test score thing is what scares me too, bad enough doing it for an English teacher or a math teacher but how do you do it for other subjects?
I teach adapted physical education to serverly disabled students, I would say about 1/3 of them have conditions that get worse as they get older. If I maintain what they have that is great, if I improve on some data I probably belong working in some fancy hospital as a neurologist.
And btw, when I ask what data they want my taking no one has a clear answer for me.
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| Posted 2/18/12 10:38 AM |
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rsquared
Sweet P is here!
Member since 4/11 2026 total posts
Name:
R
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
Posted by My2Girlz11
I have a HUGE issue with evaluating ME based on test scores. I have children being pulled out all day long. TEachers taking out for AIS, Speech, OT, PT, ELL, and for extreme behaviors. Are those teachers or therapists that are pulling my kids sharing some of the responsibility?
How are the tests being used though? ARe they comparing growth from the ELA 3rd grade test compared to the ELA test when they take it in fourth grade? I have a problem with something like this. The two tests are different and other factors could affect the score. However, if they are gving the students a pretest in Sept and an exit test at the end of the year, and it shows how much they have learned. I don't have a problem with that at all.
I also think they need to take into consideration and factor in how many times a kids has been late or absent. As a teacher, I am not responsible for waking my students up and getting them to school. As a parent, I make sure my kids are at school.
Then you get those from the DOE saying that the kids are absent because teacher's lesons aren't motivating enough. (serious this is what we were told at a meeting)
Here is what is going to happen-I am also a special ed. teacher. About half of my students are standard assessment. They are pulled out ALL DAY-I literally get about 40 minutes a day with them to teach. If they start evaluating on test scores, there is going to be more motivation to get these kids alternate assessment. I have four standardized kids-who is to say that when they dangle my salary in front of me, I won't push for alternate assessment at his next IEP? I wouldn't do that, but I know that districts and some teachers would, to get the $$. Passing NYSAA is easier than a state test, undeniably. Teachers do their formal assessments, so it would be easy to score a child lower than their actual level to get them alternately assessed. Its the same reason that I see perfectly capable students in my D75 classroom-the community districts don't want them because their test scores drag down their averages-so they push these kids into D75, and basically guarantee they will get an IEP diploma. If they go through with this, we can kiss LRE good-bye.
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| Posted 2/18/12 10:39 AM |
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mathteach
Roll Tide!
Member since 8/08 3169 total posts
Name:
Christine
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
I've volunteered to teach the "unteachables" for the past few years. They've done pretty well, all things considered. Will I be doing that again? NOPE!
Will I now be held responsible for my kids that are in jail? Do I get any kind of adjustments based on the number of days they were suspended during the semester? Who will teach these classes now?
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| Posted 2/18/12 10:30 PM |
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fdnywife
Mommy of 3 and 4 rescues
Member since 9/09 1841 total posts
Name:
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
How are they evaluating me? Im a Phys ed teacher. Nobody seems to know and I dont want it to sneak up on me. Every meeting is about the classroom teacher.
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| Posted 2/18/12 10:40 PM |
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MrsPowers
So blessed!
Member since 11/06 10348 total posts
Name:
Ivelysse
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
Posted by Robin
Posted by My2Girlz11
I have a HUGE issue with evaluating ME based on test scores. I have children being pulled out all day long. TEachers taking out for AIS, Speech, OT, PT, ELL, and for extreme behaviors. Are those teachers or therapists that are pulling my kids sharing some of the responsibility?
How are the tests being used though? ARe they comparing growth from the ELA 3rd grade test compared to the ELA test when they take it in fourth grade? I have a problem with something like this. The two tests are different and other factors could affect the score. However, if they are gving the students a pretest in Sept and an exit test at the end of the year, and it shows how much they have learned. I don't have a problem with that at all.
I also think they need to take into consideration and factor in how many times a kids has been late or absent. As a teacher, I am not responsible for waking my students up and getting them to school. As a parent, I make sure my kids are at school.
Then you get those from the DOE saying that the kids are absent because teacher's lesons aren't motivating enough. (serious this is what we were told at a meeting)
Here is what is going to happen-I am also a special ed. teacher. About half of my students are standard assessment. They are pulled out ALL DAY-I literally get about 40 minutes a day with them to teach. If they start evaluating on test scores, there is going to be more motivation to get these kids alternate assessment. I have four standardized kids-who is to say that when they dangle my salary in front of me, I won't push for alternate assessment at his next IEP? I wouldn't do that, but I know that districts and some teachers would, to get the $$. Passing NYSAA is easier than a state test, undeniably. Teachers do their formal assessments, so it would be easy to score a child lower than their actual level to get them alternately assessed. Its the same reason that I see perfectly capable students in my D75 classroom-the community districts don't want them because their test scores drag down their averages-so they push these kids into D75, and basically guarantee they will get an IEP diploma. If they go through with this, we can kiss LRE good-bye.
You make a good point but it is very difficult to get an alternate assessment approved. In my district they frown upon it. And an IEP diploma only makes sense for certain kids. If they plan on going to college that isn't an option. Districts also get cited based on their numbers of students with disabilities and the programs they are in.
This clearly wasn't thought through. What about grade levels or subjects that don't have state assessments? What about related services or support staff?
Like the PP said, we can't make the kids come to school or teach them from a young age how to read and write. What about kids that struggle in these areas to begin with?
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| Posted 2/19/12 8:34 AM |
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rsquared
Sweet P is here!
Member since 4/11 2026 total posts
Name:
R
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
Posted by MrsPowers
Posted by Robin
Posted by My2Girlz11
I have a HUGE issue with evaluating ME based on test scores. I have children being pulled out all day long. TEachers taking out for AIS, Speech, OT, PT, ELL, and for extreme behaviors. Are those teachers or therapists that are pulling my kids sharing some of the responsibility?
How are the tests being used though? ARe they comparing growth from the ELA 3rd grade test compared to the ELA test when they take it in fourth grade? I have a problem with something like this. The two tests are different and other factors could affect the score. However, if they are gving the students a pretest in Sept and an exit test at the end of the year, and it shows how much they have learned. I don't have a problem with that at all.
I also think they need to take into consideration and factor in how many times a kids has been late or absent. As a teacher, I am not responsible for waking my students up and getting them to school. As a parent, I make sure my kids are at school.
Then you get those from the DOE saying that the kids are absent because teacher's lesons aren't motivating enough. (serious this is what we were told at a meeting)
Here is what is going to happen-I am also a special ed. teacher. About half of my students are standard assessment. They are pulled out ALL DAY-I literally get about 40 minutes a day with them to teach. If they start evaluating on test scores, there is going to be more motivation to get these kids alternate assessment. I have four standardized kids-who is to say that when they dangle my salary in front of me, I won't push for alternate assessment at his next IEP? I wouldn't do that, but I know that districts and some teachers would, to get the $$. Passing NYSAA is easier than a state test, undeniably. Teachers do their formal assessments, so it would be easy to score a child lower than their actual level to get them alternately assessed. Its the same reason that I see perfectly capable students in my D75 classroom-the community districts don't want them because their test scores drag down their averages-so they push these kids into D75, and basically guarantee they will get an IEP diploma. If they go through with this, we can kiss LRE good-bye.
You make a good point but it is very difficult to get an alternate assessment approved. In my district they frown upon it. And an IEP diploma only makes sense for certain kids. If they plan on going to college that isn't an option. Districts also get cited based on their numbers of students with disabilities and the programs they are in.
This clearly wasn't thought through. What about grade levels or subjects that don't have state assessments? What about related services or support staff?
Like the PP said, we can't make the kids come to school or teach them from a young age how to read and write. What about kids that struggle in these areas to begin with?
ITA that it only makes sense for certain kids, but a borderline kid, that could go either way might not be given the chance if teachers and administrators think that that child's scores might affect their salaries. In my class, I have a couple kids that are right on that line, and in D75 (at least my school) it really isn't that hard to get a kid to be alternate assessment. What I am saying is that people might be motivated to make the borderline kids alternate assessment so that the test scores look better on paper, as sad and messed up as that is.
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| Posted 2/19/12 11:34 AM |
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Erica
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 11767 total posts
Name:
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
Posted by MrsPowers
This clearly wasn't thought through. What about grade levels or subjects that don't have state assessments? What about related services or support staff?
What do you mean? Andrew Cuomo is the only person who cares about the kids!
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| Posted 2/19/12 7:44 PM |
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
I was going to say...if this is happening, merit pay is coming down the 'pike..
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| Posted 2/19/12 8:54 PM |
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juanvi
Get Out!
Member since 10/06 4463 total posts
Name:
Christina
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
It's a shame and an embarrassment to teachers. We aren't treated with the respect that we deserve and we are alwaysvthe scapegoats. So when the sh!t hit the fan with the economy the vultures found the spot to get us. I think duomo owed his people on wa street a favor and now we have these dumb evaluations and tier 6 looming.
Whatever happens I know I am a good teacher and will teach the best I can until they force me out. Mynstudents are what I will be focused on and what I've always focused on. I have to think this way or I will loe way too much sleep because of people who have never set foot in a classroom.
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| Posted 2/19/12 10:20 PM |
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
I'm glad I'm not the only one who is anxious- and I wondered if I'd read everything correctly. It IS as bad as I thought- I read a lot of NYC teacher bloggers and I think some of them are alarmists but this time I think most of them are on the money that this will be bad. However I am hoping to leave in June- but I feel for everyone who's not.
I think everything- including PE and art, will be tested eventually. I read that somewhere, I just don't remember.
Five-ten years from now, will anyone want to be a teacher? I doubt it. My daughter is not yet 5 but teaching is the last thing I want her to do.
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| Posted 2/19/12 10:50 PM |
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fdnywife
Mommy of 3 and 4 rescues
Member since 9/09 1841 total posts
Name:
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
I agree. I sadly hope my children don't want to be teachers and DH hopes they don't want to be firemen. Tier 6 for us and Tier 3 for them! Everythings going downhill it seems.
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| Posted 2/20/12 7:37 AM |
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juanvi
Get Out!
Member since 10/06 4463 total posts
Name:
Christina
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
Posted by MrsProfessor
I'm glad I'm not the only one who is anxious- and I wondered if I'd read everything correctly. It IS as bad as I thought- I read a lot of NYC teacher bloggers and I think some of them are alarmists but this time I think most of them are on the money that this will be bad. However I am hoping to leave in June- but I feel for everyone who's not.
I think everything- including PE and art, will be tested eventually. I read that somewhere, I just don't remember.
Five-ten years from now, will anyone want to be a teacher? I doubt it. My daughter is not yet 5 but teaching is the last thing I want her to do.
Its such an honorable field and I feel the same about not wanting my kids to do it.
I think it's so bad that we should be marching in Albany. Tier 6 wil affect everyone's pension
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| Posted 2/20/12 7:53 AM |
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MrsPowers
So blessed!
Member since 11/06 10348 total posts
Name:
Ivelysse
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
Posted by Robin
Posted by MrsPowers
Posted by Robin
Posted by My2Girlz11
I have a HUGE issue with evaluating ME based on test scores. I have children being pulled out all day long. TEachers taking out for AIS, Speech, OT, PT, ELL, and for extreme behaviors. Are those teachers or therapists that are pulling my kids sharing some of the responsibility?
How are the tests being used though? ARe they comparing growth from the ELA 3rd grade test compared to the ELA test when they take it in fourth grade? I have a problem with something like this. The two tests are different and other factors could affect the score. However, if they are gving the students a pretest in Sept and an exit test at the end of the year, and it shows how much they have learned. I don't have a problem with that at all.
I also think they need to take into consideration and factor in how many times a kids has been late or absent. As a teacher, I am not responsible for waking my students up and getting them to school. As a parent, I make sure my kids are at school.
Then you get those from the DOE saying that the kids are absent because teacher's lesons aren't motivating enough. (serious this is what we were told at a meeting)
Here is what is going to happen-I am also a special ed. teacher. About half of my students are standard assessment. They are pulled out ALL DAY-I literally get about 40 minutes a day with them to teach. If they start evaluating on test scores, there is going to be more motivation to get these kids alternate assessment. I have four standardized kids-who is to say that when they dangle my salary in front of me, I won't push for alternate assessment at his next IEP? I wouldn't do that, but I know that districts and some teachers would, to get the $$. Passing NYSAA is easier than a state test, undeniably. Teachers do their formal assessments, so it would be easy to score a child lower than their actual level to get them alternately assessed. Its the same reason that I see perfectly capable students in my D75 classroom-the community districts don't want them because their test scores drag down their averages-so they push these kids into D75, and basically guarantee they will get an IEP diploma. If they go through with this, we can kiss LRE good-bye.
You make a good point but it is very difficult to get an alternate assessment approved. In my district they frown upon it. And an IEP diploma only makes sense for certain kids. If they plan on going to college that isn't an option. Districts also get cited based on their numbers of students with disabilities and the programs they are in.
This clearly wasn't thought through. What about grade levels or subjects that don't have state assessments? What about related services or support staff?
Like the PP said, we can't make the kids come to school or teach them from a young age how to read and write. What about kids that struggle in these areas to begin with?
ITA that it only makes sense for certain kids, but a borderline kid, that could go either way might not be given the chance if teachers and administrators think that that child's scores might affect their salaries. In my class, I have a couple kids that are right on that line, and in D75 (at least my school) it really isn't that hard to get a kid to be alternate assessment. What I am saying is that people might be motivated to make the borderline kids alternate assessment so that the test scores look better on paper, as sad and messed up as that is.
I guess it depends on the district. Sometimes in my experience some of those borderline kids have parents that are resistant too. That is a whole other battle. The whole situation is sad.
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| Posted 2/21/12 7:28 AM |
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MrsPowers
So blessed!
Member since 11/06 10348 total posts
Name:
Ivelysse
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
Posted by Erica
Posted by MrsPowers
This clearly wasn't thought through. What about grade levels or subjects that don't have state assessments? What about related services or support staff?
What do you mean? Andrew Cuomo is the only person who cares about the kids!
I am unsure if this is sarcastic or not. So I am not sure how to reply to this comment.
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| Posted 2/21/12 7:30 AM |
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MrsPowers
So blessed!
Member since 11/06 10348 total posts
Name:
Ivelysse
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
Posted by MrsProfessor
I'm glad I'm not the only one who is anxious- and I wondered if I'd read everything correctly. It IS as bad as I thought- I read a lot of NYC teacher bloggers and I think some of them are alarmists but this time I think most of them are on the money that this will be bad. However I am hoping to leave in June- but I feel for everyone who's not.
I think everything- including PE and art, will be tested eventually. I read that somewhere, I just don't remember.
Five-ten years from now, will anyone want to be a teacher? I doubt it. My daughter is not yet 5 but teaching is the last thing I want her to do.
This is so sad but true. Teaching is going to be a declining profession. So sad because so many of us love what we do.
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| Posted 2/21/12 7:35 AM |
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CAMCaps
Live Laugh Love Run
Member since 6/07 4922 total posts
Name:
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
A lot of things need to be negotiated on the district level. I teach two sections of a regents level course, 2-4 lab sections, and 3 electives. One of my regents sections is composed of students who received 1s and 2s on their intermediate level science exam and for the most part have 2-4th grade reading levels. In general, they are able to do well on the test so even with that I am not concerned. I am concerned, however, about my other classes. How will lab be factored in? How will the elective be judged?
In all honesty though, the evals are the least of my concern. With the new tax levy cap, I will most likely be cut next year even though I have been at my school for several years. Next year, there will be very few, if any, electives at my school because of funding, so it will be a moot point.
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| Posted 2/21/12 7:59 AM |
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
Posted by MrsPowers
Posted by Erica
Posted by MrsPowers
This clearly wasn't thought through. What about grade levels or subjects that don't have state assessments? What about related services or support staff?
What do you mean? Andrew Cuomo is the only person who cares about the kids!
I am unsure if this is sarcastic or not. So I am not sure how to reply to this comment.
Hope Erica doesn't mind me jumping in- but I interpreted it as sarcasm. Much of what I read throughout the process has really depicted Cuomo as being on the side of reformers who feel that teachers are the problem and aren't doing enough. He did a press conference where he claimed he would appoint himself as the "chief lobbyist for students" which IMO was a dig at unions. He even had a photoshopped image of his office door which had his name and something like "#1 Student Advocate" or similar.
As a parent I really resent his approach- I feel like he's implying that even parents are not stepping up. *I* am my child's main advocate. I neither need nor want him to take on that job.
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| Posted 2/21/12 11:28 AM |
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
YOU don't need him to do that job but there are so many kids out there who do need someone...parents are not parenting and WE are the ones being taken to task...it's ridiculous. I am not saying we should keep inadequate teachers but instead of having remediation strategies, it's all punitive and demeaning...
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| Posted 2/21/12 11:46 AM |
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juanvi
Get Out!
Member since 10/06 4463 total posts
Name:
Christina
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
Posted by TheDivaBrideandTeddyFrog
YOU don't need him to do that job but there are so many kids out there who do need someone...parents are not parenting and WE are the ones being taken to task...it's ridiculous. I am not saying we should keep inadequate teachers but instead of having remediation strategies, it's all punitive and demeaning...[/QUOTE
Ita!
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| Posted 2/21/12 4:31 PM |
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Erica
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 11767 total posts
Name:
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
Posted by MrsPowers
Posted by Erica
Posted by MrsPowers
This clearly wasn't thought through. What about grade levels or subjects that don't have state assessments? What about related services or support staff?
What do you mean? Andrew Cuomo is the only person who cares about the kids!
I am unsure if this is sarcastic or not. So I am not sure how to reply to this comment.
Sorry about that. Sarcasm towards Cuomo. I was agreeing that it is not well thought out, even though Cuomo claims to be the only one thinking of the kids. (Yeah, that's why we all went into teaching...the money and the benefits...and that's why he went into politics... )
I do agree that there are many students out there that need advocates, but it's certainly not the governor's job. I feel he is using students as a political pawn: the governor who broke unions.
Message edited 2/22/2012 3:09:50 PM.
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| Posted 2/22/12 3:08 PM |
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MrsPowers
So blessed!
Member since 11/06 10348 total posts
Name:
Ivelysse
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Re: New evals- thoughts?
Posted by Erica
Posted by MrsPowers
Posted by Erica
Posted by MrsPowers
This clearly wasn't thought through. What about grade levels or subjects that don't have state assessments? What about related services or support staff?
What do you mean? Andrew Cuomo is the only person who cares about the kids!
I am unsure if this is sarcastic or not. So I am not sure how to reply to this comment.
Sorry about that. Sarcasm towards Cuomo. I was agreeing that it is not well thought out, even though Cuomo claims to be the only one thinking of the kids. (Yeah, that's why we all went into teaching...the money and the benefits...and that's why he went into politics...)
I do agree that there are many students out there that need advocates, but it's certainly not the governor's job. I feel he is using students as a political pawn: the governor who broke unions.
I thought you were using sarcasm too! But I just wanted to be sure. I totally agree that Cuomo claims he is thinking about the kids but like we aren't! Come on!
I also agree with the PP who said they were concerned about the tax cap. That is a huge concern for many districts as well.
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| Posted 2/22/12 7:21 PM |
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