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Patterson eliminating STAR Rebate Checks...
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lbride
Lovin' my mini man!
Member since 3/07 2475 total posts
Name:
Lisa
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Re: Patterson eliminating STAR Rebate Checks...
Posted by Jennie0898
Posted by Erica
I agree there \has to be reform...but in order to be a district administrator you need to get an advanced degree/certification - similar to an MBA. and it is a different certification to be a building administrator. I think it's pretty unfair to throw all administration under the bus like that. I agree there needs to be reform, but it's not just a teacher who decides they want to be superintendent.
My point was that most of the people in administration have spent their time teaching. Just because they go to school and get their advanced degree doesn't make them an expert.
To me it's like giving the position of CFO (of a multi million dollar company) to a recent college grad. It wouldn't happen b/c they have no practical experience.
I'm not trying to throw administration under the bus b/c hey, everyone is entitled to better themselves but I just think having someone who was a teacher for 20 years now be the school's superintendent is not the best idea. Clearly it's not working, our taxes keep going up but what I see us getting in return for it is not worth it.
I don't know if you're a teacher but my sister is and when she taught down here she used to bring in so many personal things to help with teaching her lessons or better her classroom. Now, yes, she taught in catholic school so there was less money to be had but I have friends who are teachers now and they teach in public school and they say it's the same for them.
So you (and I mean this as a general you, not you the poster I'm quoting) tell me, where's the money going??
I take great offense to these comments, especially as a teacher and an admin. cert. holder. Many asst. supt for business are people from the business world NOT teachers, FYI. I think my 400 hour internship in the district's central office crunching numbers prepared me just fine thanks.... besides Business people like to stay in the business world and earn a lot more than administrations...
want to know where the money goes?- then head to the Board Meetings and check out the budgets - there's no secrets anymore in school finances - spec ed, BOCES, transporation, tech, books, heat, maint., gasoline, supplies, cafeteria food, salaries, speech and lang, OT, PT - all these things cost money and LOTS of it
a simple $30,000 addition - such as creating a bookroom for guided reading can raise a homeowner's taxes by $2 - it all adds up and quickly... one thing LI schools do not get a lot of is State Aid.. want to blame someone, blame Albany, not the schools and professionals who run them!
Message edited 12/19/2008 3:16:34 PM.
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Posted 12/19/08 3:14 PM  |
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isabelle2137
LIF Adult
Member since 12/06 1076 total posts
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Re: Patterson eliminating STAR Rebate Checks...
Posted by lbride
Posted by Jennie0898
Posted by Erica
I agree there \has to be reform...but in order to be a district administrator you need to get an advanced degree/certification - similar to an MBA. and it is a different certification to be a building administrator. I think it's pretty unfair to throw all administration under the bus like that. I agree there needs to be reform, but it's not just a teacher who decides they want to be superintendent.
My point was that most of the people in administration have spent their time teaching. Just because they go to school and get their advanced degree doesn't make them an expert.
To me it's like giving the position of CFO (of a multi million dollar company) to a recent college grad. It wouldn't happen b/c they have no practical experience.
I'm not trying to throw administration under the bus b/c hey, everyone is entitled to better themselves but I just think having someone who was a teacher for 20 years now be the school's superintendent is not the best idea. Clearly it's not working, our taxes keep going up but what I see us getting in return for it is not worth it.
I don't know if you're a teacher but my sister is and when she taught down here she used to bring in so many personal things to help with teaching her lessons or better her classroom. Now, yes, she taught in catholic school so there was less money to be had but I have friends who are teachers now and they teach in public school and they say it's the same for them.
So you (and I mean this as a general you, not you the poster I'm quoting) tell me, where's the money going??
I take great offense to these comments, especially as a teacher and an admin. cert. holder. Many asst. supt for business are people from the business world NOT teachers, FYI. I think my 400 hour internship in the district's central office crunching numbers prepared me just fine thanks.... besides Business people like to stay in the business world and earn a lot more than administrations...
want to know where the money goes?- then head to the Board Meetings and check out the budgets - there's no secrets anymore in school finances - spec ed, BOCES, transporation, tech, books, heat, maint., gasoline, supplies, cafeteria food, salaries, speech and lang, OT, PT - all these things cost money and LOTS of it
a simple $30,000 addition - such as creating a bookroom for guided reading can raise a homeowner's taxes by $2 - it all adds up and quickly... one thing LI schools do not get a lot of is State Aid.. want to blame someone, blame Albany, not the schools and professionals who run them!
I'm sorry you are offended. But I am offended by the blatant misuse of my tax dollars year after year. I go to every Board meeting. I speak up. You know what happens? They do what they want anyway. They create admin positions left and right that are 100% not needed. I agree there is minimal state aid to run things, but in my district at least, it's time for a change. The ATM that is my tax bill should be closed.
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| Posted 12/19/08 3:20 PM |
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sfp0701
Liam's Mommy!
Member since 1/07 9764 total posts
Name:
Tricia
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Re: Patterson eliminating STAR Rebate Checks...
Posted by shiv
so basic star would still be in effect? It's only the middle-class star rebate that will be eliminated?
I thought all star was being eliminated?
THat's what I thought. I was having a heart attack.
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| Posted 12/20/08 7:40 AM |
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LadyH
April Baby Girl is Here!
Member since 12/07 1077 total posts
Name:
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Re: Patterson eliminating STAR Rebate Checks...
Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jennie0898 I agree with you 150%
A teacher's "advanced degree" does not necessarily make an automatic business official.
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| Posted 12/20/08 3:22 PM |
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LadyH
April Baby Girl is Here!
Member since 12/07 1077 total posts
Name:
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Re: Patterson eliminating STAR Rebate Checks...
Posted by lbride
I take great offense to these comments, especially as a teacher and an admin. cert. holder. Many asst. supt for business are people from the business world NOT teachers, FYI. I think my 400 hour internship in the district's central office crunching numbers prepared me just fine thanks.... !
I mean this in the nicest possible way but you're kidding right. You think a 400 hr internship prepared you for public (school) administration. SO hmmm...let's say you work a 40 hr week - that would make it a 10 week internship You honestly think 10 weeks would give you the same experience that someone who has advanced BUSINESS degreeS and experience with government finances.
I take great offence to you thinking you can pull that off. I truly hope you aren't running my multi million $ district on a 10 week internship. That scares me!!!!
I couldn't even fathom someone in my firm saying that! "I think my internship prepared me just fine."
You would be laughed out of the office.
ETA - I think you kind of just proved the point. I think you aren't even aware of how much you don't know about the business side of government.
You scare me... you truly scare me.
Message edited 12/20/2008 3:45:32 PM.
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| Posted 12/20/08 3:36 PM |
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KateDevine
*
Member since 6/06 24950 total posts
Name:
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Re: Patterson eliminating STAR Rebate Checks...
Posted by LadyH
Posted by lbride
I take great offense to these comments, especially as a teacher and an admin. cert. holder. Many asst. supt for business are people from the business world NOT teachers, FYI. I think my 400 hour internship in the district's central office crunching numbers prepared me just fine thanks.... !
I mean this in the nicest possible way but you're kidding right. You think a 400 hr internship prepared you for public (school) administration. SO hmmm...let's say you work a 40 hr week - that would make it a 10 week internship You honestly think 10 weeks would give you the same experience that someone who has advanced BUSINESS degreeS and experience with government finances.
I take great offence to you thinking you can pull that off. I truly hope you aren't running my multi million $ district on a 10 week internship. That scares me!!!!
I couldn't even fathom someone in my firm saying that! "I think my internship prepared me just fine."
You would be laughed out of the office.
ETA - I think you kind of just proved the point. I think you aren't even aware of how much you don't know about the business side of government.
You scare me... you truly scare me.
Wow. Could you be more offensive here?
I am not even IN education, but my mother was and held an administrative masters and people like you are the reason why many teachers don't use them.
I think that to be an administrator, it encompasses being a teacher along with the degree, the aforementioned internship and a lot more.
But honestly, your post was incredibly rude and uncalled for.
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| Posted 12/20/08 4:18 PM |
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lbride
Lovin' my mini man!
Member since 3/07 2475 total posts
Name:
Lisa
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Re: Patterson eliminating STAR Rebate Checks...
Posted by KateDevine
Posted by LadyH
Posted by lbride
I take great offense to these comments, especially as a teacher and an admin. cert. holder. Many asst. supt for business are people from the business world NOT teachers, FYI. I think my 400 hour internship in the district's central office crunching numbers prepared me just fine thanks.... !
I mean this in the nicest possible way but you're kidding right. You think a 400 hr internship prepared you for public (school) administration. SO hmmm...let's say you work a 40 hr week - that would make it a 10 week internship You honestly think 10 weeks would give you the same experience that someone who has advanced BUSINESS degreeS and experience with government finances.
I take great offence to you thinking you can pull that off. I truly hope you aren't running my multi million $ district on a 10 week internship. That scares me!!!!
I couldn't even fathom someone in my firm saying that! "I think my internship prepared me just fine."
You would be laughed out of the office.
ETA - I think you kind of just proved the point. I think you aren't even aware of how much you don't know about the business side of government.
You scare me... you truly scare me.
Wow. Could you be more offensive here?
I am not even IN education, but my mother was and held an administrative masters and people like you are the reason why many teachers don't use them.
I think that to be an administrator, it encompasses being a teacher along with the degree, the aforementioned internship and a lot more.
But honestly, your post was incredibly rude and uncalled for.
Thank you - that was the strangest thing.... I know people are upset about taxes, but come on...
It's weird to me that people think teachers go right from the classroom to sitting in the supt. office.... college, degree, internship, then climbing the administration ladder which takes years and that's where you the experience needed to become a supt or asst supt for business...
teachers never go nuts on businesss people who cross over to teaching..why can;t teachers do the same?
Message edited 12/20/2008 6:46:04 PM.
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| Posted 12/20/08 6:43 PM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
Name:
BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: Patterson eliminating STAR Rebate Checks...
Posted by lbride
I take great offense to these comments, especially as a teacher and an admin. cert. holder. Many asst. supt for business are people from the business world NOT teachers, FYI. I think my 400 hour internship in the district's central office crunching numbers prepared me just fine thanks.... besides Business people like to stay in the business world and earn a lot more than administrations...
want to know where the money goes?- then head to the Board Meetings and check out the budgets - there's no secrets anymore in school finances - spec ed, BOCES, transporation, tech, books, heat, maint., gasoline, supplies, cafeteria food, salaries, speech and lang, OT, PT - all these things cost money and LOTS of it
a simple $30,000 addition - such as creating a bookroom for guided reading can raise a homeowner's taxes by $2 - it all adds up and quickly... one thing LI schools do not get a lot of is State Aid.. want to blame someone, blame Albany, not the schools and professionals who run them!
I'm sorry you take offense to my opinion but it's how I feel.
I need to ask this though... you said, and I quote:
I think my 400 hour internship in the district's central office crunching numbers prepared me just fine thanks....
Do you really think 10 WEEKS gave you enough EXPERIENCE to run a mulit-million dollar business? (And yes, I DO think a school district IS a BUSINESS.)More so than someone who, say, has been in private industry for, say 15-20 YEARS?
Come on.
So, going by what YOU said, I should take a 10 WEEK internship and then BAM!! I could be a teacher?? I don't think so.
So talk about OFFENSIVE! I think what YOU said was offensive.
Funds for school districts are not spent IMO wisely. To compound the problem, YES, we don't get NEARLY enough aid. If you had actually READ this entire thread you would have seen I ALREADY said this.
I understand FULL well that I, as a homeowner and taxpayer can see where the money is going, the problem is that I, as a TAXPAYER have NO say regarding the BIGGEST part of the budget. The SALARIES. That's where I think the problem is.
The people who (I FEEL) really make a difference and should be compensated(Teachers) don't make enough and those running the show (administration) make more than they should. If you wanted to make good money salary wise - you shouldn't have gone into the teaching profession. At least on a civil basis. Become a professor. But on the OTHER HAND you DO have perks.
You get great health care and retirement benefits, your vacation schedule is that to be envied and you have JOB SECURITY in the form of tenure.
I'm sure someone who just lost their job would LOVE to be in a position where they knew they'd ALWAYS have a job.
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| Posted 12/20/08 6:49 PM |
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LadyH
April Baby Girl is Here!
Member since 12/07 1077 total posts
Name:
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Re: Patterson eliminating STAR Rebate Checks...
finally!!!
I think the end of this tenure is coming. Education reform is a must for LI. The taxes are simply out of control. The salaries are not sustainable.
We need a Michelle Rhee on LI!
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| Posted 12/20/08 6:56 PM |
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lbride
Lovin' my mini man!
Member since 3/07 2475 total posts
Name:
Lisa
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Re: Patterson eliminating STAR Rebate Checks...
Posted by Jennie0898
Posted by lbride
I take great offense to these comments, especially as a teacher and an admin. cert. holder. Many asst. supt for business are people from the business world NOT teachers, FYI. I think my 400 hour internship in the district's central office crunching numbers prepared me just fine thanks.... besides Business people like to stay in the business world and earn a lot more than administrations...
want to know where the money goes?- then head to the Board Meetings and check out the budgets - there's no secrets anymore in school finances - spec ed, BOCES, transporation, tech, books, heat, maint., gasoline, supplies, cafeteria food, salaries, speech and lang, OT, PT - all these things cost money and LOTS of it
a simple $30,000 addition - such as creating a bookroom for guided reading can raise a homeowner's taxes by $2 - it all adds up and quickly... one thing LI schools do not get a lot of is State Aid.. want to blame someone, blame Albany, not the schools and professionals who run them!
I'm sorry you take offense to my opinion but it's how I feel.
I need to ask this though... you said, and I quote:
I think my 400 hour internship in the district's central office crunching numbers prepared me just fine thanks....
Do you really think 10 WEEKS gave you enough EXPERIENCE to run a mulit-million dollar business? (And yes, I DO think a school district IS a BUSINESS.)More so than someone who, say, has been in private industry for, say 15-20 YEARS?
Come on.
So, going by what YOU said, I should take a 10 WEEK internship and then BAM!! I could be a teacher?? I don't think so.
So talk about OFFENSIVE! I think what YOU said was offensive.
Funds for school districts are not spent IMO wisely. To compound the problem, YES, we don't get NEARLY enough aid. If you had actually READ this entire thread you would have seen I ALREADY said this.
I understand FULL well that I, as a homeowner and taxpayer can see where the money is going, the problem is that I, as a TAXPAYER have NO say regarding the BIGGEST part of the budget. The SALARIES. That's where I think the problem is.
The people who (I FEEL) really make a difference and should be compensated(Teachers) don't make enough and those running the show (administration) make more than they should. If you wanted to make good money salary wise - you shouldn't have gone into the teaching profession. At least on a civil basis. Become a professor. But on the OTHER HAND you DO have perks.
You get great health care and retirement benefits, your vacation schedule is that to be envied and you have JOB SECURITY in the form of tenure.
I'm sure someone who just lost their job would LOVE to be in a position where they knew they'd ALWAYS have a job.
a 45 credit master's in admin & school finance, part of which is an internship doesn't qualify a person? where do you think admin are going to come from? I'm telling you - business people do not want to be in schools for the most part! the business admin in my district has been in admin for over 20 years - I think that's enough admin experience to lead a district.
tenure is not a sure thing as far as a job goes -ask the tenured teachers in levittown last year that were excessed due to budget cuts and the many more that will be excessed next year thanks to the millions of dollars many LI schools are losing in aid from Patterson's cuts.... We don't ALWAYS have a job....
there are many perks to teaching none of which matter to people who love the profession- we'd do it 12 months a year. We didn't choose the time schedule for American schools. And all these perks are upfront, anyone could go to school to be a teacher and reap the benefits.....
In my opinion, education is the best way to spend my tax dollars, cut something else - drivers for politicans, redoing public buildings in perfect condition....
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| Posted 12/20/08 10:23 PM |
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Erica
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 11767 total posts
Name:
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Re: Patterson eliminating STAR Rebate Checks...
Jennie - I do understand where your thinking is coming from, but it's a double edge sword.
Should the CEO of google know something about computers? Bill Gates worked up from building computers in his garage, same with Steve Jobs, etc. Knowing about the business is important. If you don't understand the nuances of test scores and classroom management, I don't think a superintendent could succeed and the community would be in an uproar as well.
Then you mention the pay - yes they are paid A LOT, but a minor fraction of what private CEOs make. How are you going to attract the business world, if you don't have the salary to go with it. I don't think there is anyway that a community could sustain a mere million dollar superintendent salary. Even if they got rid of all the other administration.
Which way does a community go? With someone that knows the education process and will take a much smaller salary or with someone who has tons of business experience, but will bankrupt the community with the salary and could possibly tamper with the education of a future generation, who we need to be well educated for the future labor force.
as for tenure - this was just discussed on the teachers board...I don't think anyone would give up tenure, we know how important job security is. I don't think you see any teacher on here not take tenure seriously. The idea, again, is to keep well qualified teachers in the community (I know there are some that slip through). Especially if they have disagreements or different ideas on pedagogy than administration (and believe me - pedagogy changes often)
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| Posted 12/21/08 8:03 AM |
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