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Goobster
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Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
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:)
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by KayVi10
I'm not comfortable with them being 17 and heading off to college> I think the extra year becomes more important as they get older and need the maturity to make life decisions (dealing with peer pressure, sexual situations, college, driving and so on).
I don't mean to disrespect anyone's feelings. But I just don't understand this statement. I hear alot of people (not just you) say this.
Being a child who made the cutoff growing up, and being the youngest among my friends and classmates, I don't and didn't see ANYTHING negative about being the youngest. I wasn't the last to drive, b/c I took drivers ed and was able to drive at 17. Other than that, I don't see what significane it holds to be "17" or "18" and going to college. I just don't understand the logic behind that statement.
This also involves me b.c my DD meets the cutoff and is the youngest in her class. She is going on to K and will be in the same senario I was in during my school years (being the youngest). I am HAPPY about that. I see nothing negative about starting your life a year younger!
I am genuinely curious why some people think it makes a difference if you are 17 or 18 and going to college?What makes anyone so sure that a child's mentality will magically change in one year (17 to 18)?Now if we are talking about holding a child back based on the present, that's another story. But the main thing to me is there is no magic switch that turns on in a person's head from age 17 to 18 that will make them more likely to make a good decision. Not in one year anyway. JME and JMO I guess
Message edited 5/19/2013 9:54:57 PM.
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Posted 5/19/13 11:46 AM  |
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Naturalmama
Love my boys!!
Member since 1/12 3548 total posts
Name:
Christine
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Goobster
Posted by KayVi10
I'm not comfortable with them being 17 and heading off to college> I think the extra year becomes more important as they get older and need the maturity to make life decisions (dealing with peer pressure, sexual situations, college, driving and so on).
I don't mean to disrespect anyone's feelings. But I just don't understand this statement. I hear alot of people (not just you) say this.
Being a child who made the cutoff growing up, and being the youngest among my friends and classmates, I don't and didn't see ANYTHING negative about being the youngest. I wasn't the last to drive, b/c I took drivers ed and was able to drive at 17. Other than that, I don't see what significane it holds to be "17" or "18" and going to college. I just don't understand the logic behind that statement.
This also involves me b.c my DD meets the cutoff and is the youngest in her class. She is going on to K and will be in the same senario I was in during my school years (being the youngest). I am HAPPY about that. I see nothing negative about starting your life a year younger!
I am genuinely curious why some people think it makes a difference if you are 17 or 18 and going to college?What makes anyone so sure that a child's mentality will magically change in one year (17 to 18)?Now if we are talking about holding a child back based on the present, that's another story. There is no magic switch that turns on in a person's head from age 17 to 18 that will make them more likely to make a good decision. Not in one year anyway. JME and JMO I guess
I totally agree with this. My boys are May & March so this won't be an issue for me, but I know my friend has an October baby and her DD's pre-k teachers really tried to convince her to wait, based solely on her age. They mentioned going to college at 17, driving later, and feeling bad in middle school when she is the last of her friends to develop breasts or get her period. Not valid enough reasons to hold back IMO. She ended up sending her, and she is finishing up 1st grade and doing beautifully.
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| Posted 5/19/13 5:20 PM |
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Goobster
:)
Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
Name:
:)
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Naturalmama
er DD's pre-k teachers really tried to convince her to wait, based solely on her age. They mentioned going to college at 17, driving later, and feeling bad in middle school when she is the last of her friends to develop breasts or get her period. Not valid enough reasons to hold back IMO. She ended up sending her, and she is finishing up 1st grade and doing beautifully.
This is just ridiculous. Someone HAS to be last. Can't people just accept that their child/some child has to be the last one in some regard, in their class? And age does not entirely influence these things. Maturity and sexual maturation occurs at various ages for each child. I am so tired of this metality, as if our children are so fragile they can't handle waiting or being the last to do something or achieve something.
Message edited 5/19/2013 10:02:06 PM.
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| Posted 5/19/13 9:59 PM |
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KarenK122
The Journey is the Destination
Member since 5/05 4431 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
I am holding my DD back for maturity reasons, but I also have an issue with 17 year olds going off to college. This is my opinion and it really doesn't need to make sense to anyone else but me. At 17 she is not an adult. She is still legally a minor. I do not want a minor to be living away from home when technically I am still responsible for her actions. She will not be able to have an non-restricted license until she is 18 so I do not believe she would be able to have a car at school. The law states that a child must be enrolled in school by 6 years old and she will be. The school cut off dates and the school enrollment laws are not in sync and if they were alot of these issues would not be an issue.
I have no issue with her being "last" or the youngest in a grade. My reasoning for holding her back has to do with her personal success and no one else.
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| Posted 5/19/13 10:59 PM |
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Goobster
:)
Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
Name:
:)
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by KarenK122
The law states that a child must be enrolled in school by 6 years old and she will be. The school cut off dates and the school enrollment laws are not in sync and if they were alot of these issues would not be an issue.
In school or in K? Since K isn't mandatory (I believe) then 6 in this instance may be more so in regard to first grade (if you skipped K).
eta - Correction - I just googled and in June of 2012 K was made mandatory.
Message edited 5/19/2013 11:33:46 PM.
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| Posted 5/19/13 11:13 PM |
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twicethefun
Loving life
Member since 7/06 4088 total posts
Name:
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Jugglemom
I just looked up up the paperwork in my files. One of the tests is called the NWEA Test? I can't find the other test results of the other tests right now. I am so surprised no one else's child as had to take these tests.
My kindergartener took computerized tests as well.
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| Posted 5/19/13 11:19 PM |
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Goobster
:)
Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
Name:
:)
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by KarenK122
She will not be able to have an non-restricted license until she is 18 so I do not believe she would be able to have a car at school.
If you take a driver's ed course, you are able to have a regular license at 17. This was how I was able to drive at 17. I drove before many of my year older friends who didn't get around to getting their licenses yet.
"This prohibition does not apply to 17 year old drivers who have completed a State Education Department approved Driver and Traffic Safety Education Course (and submitted to DMV their MV-285 DTSE Course Completion Certificate) and received their class D, adult license. With an adult Class D license a 17 year old may drive unrestricted anywhere in New York State."
How to Change Your Class DJ Junior License to a Class D Senior License with Driver Education
If you have a Class DJ junior license, and you complete a high school or college driver education course, you can change your Class DJ junior license to a Class D senior license when you are 17 years old.
To change the class of your driver license, you must have a form MV-285 driver education certificate issued from a DMV-approved driver education program. You cannot use another certificate.
If you do not have an MV-285, the DMV automatically changes your driver license from Class DJ to Class D on your 18th birthday. The DMV automatically mails you a new driver license that indicates "Class D". You will not get this document faster if you visit a DMV office.
On your 18th birthday, your driver record indicates that you are a Class D driver. There is no need to wait until you have your new Class D driver license before you drive as a senior driver. You can drive as a senior driver on your 18th birthday.
Give your MV-285 driver education certificate to the DMV examiner after your road test. The DMV will update your driver record and will automatically issue a Class D photo driver license on your 17th birthday. You will receive the new driver license in the mail. There is no fee when you change the class of your driver license by this method.
Your driver license record will show that you are a Class D driver. You do not need to have your Class D document to drive as a senior license driver. You can drive on your 17th birthday.
Note: If your 17th birthday occurs on a weekend or a state holiday, your record is updated and your Class D driver license is issued on the next business day.
http://www.dmv.ny.gov/license.htm#djtod
Message edited 5/19/2013 11:32:11 PM.
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| Posted 5/19/13 11:30 PM |
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KarenK122
The Journey is the Destination
Member since 5/05 4431 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Goobster
Posted by KarenK122
The law states that a child must be enrolled in school by 6 years old and she will be. The school cut off dates and the school enrollment laws are not in sync and if they were alot of these issues would not be an issue.
In school or in K? Since K isn't mandatory (I believe) then 6 in this instance may be more so in regard to first grade (if you skipped K).
eta - Correction - I just googled and in June of 2012 K was made mandatory.
Yes, so you need to start school the school year you turn 6. The cut off dates for children with late birthdays have them starting the school year when they turn 5. If they changed the cut off date to the beginning of school, everyone would start at the same age.
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| Posted 5/19/13 11:40 PM |
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KarenK122
The Journey is the Destination
Member since 5/05 4431 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Goobster
Posted by KarenK122
She will not be able to have an non-restricted license until she is 18 so I do not believe she would be able to have a car at school.
If you take a driver's ed course, you are able to have a regular license at 17. This was how I was able to drive at 17. I drove before many of my year older friends who didn't get around to getting their licenses yet.
"This prohibition does not apply to 17 year old drivers who have completed a State Education Department approved Driver and Traffic Safety Education Course (and submitted to DMV their MV-285 DTSE Course Completion Certificate) and received their class D, adult license. With an adult Class D license a 17 year old may drive unrestricted anywhere in New York State."
http://www.dmv.ny.gov/license.htm#djtod
Thanks I did not know that but honestly that was the least of my worries. Everyone has a difference of opinion on this and we all must respect that. I do wish that the schools or state would make a clear rule on this and there would be no issue at all either way.
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| Posted 5/19/13 11:42 PM |
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Goobster
:)
Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
Name:
:)
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by KarenK122
Posted by Goobster
Posted by KarenK122
She will not be able to have an non-restricted license until she is 18 so I do not believe she would be able to have a car at school.
If you take a driver's ed course, you are able to have a regular license at 17. This was how I was able to drive at 17. I drove before many of my year older friends who didn't get around to getting their licenses yet.
"This prohibition does not apply to 17 year old drivers who have completed a State Education Department approved Driver and Traffic Safety Education Course (and submitted to DMV their MV-285 DTSE Course Completion Certificate) and received their class D, adult license. With an adult Class D license a 17 year old may drive unrestricted anywhere in New York State."
http://www.dmv.ny.gov/license.htm#djtod
Thanks I did not know that but honestly that was the least of my worries. Everyone has a difference of opinion on this and we all must respect that. I do wish that the schools or state would make a clear rule on this and there would be no issue at all either way.
I absolutely agree.
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| Posted 5/20/13 12:01 AM |
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Katareen
5,000 Posts!
Member since 4/10 7180 total posts
Name:
Katherine
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Goobster
Posted by Naturalmama
er DD's pre-k teachers really tried to convince her to wait, based solely on her age. They mentioned going to college at 17, driving later, and feeling bad in middle school when she is the last of her friends to develop breasts or get her period. Not valid enough reasons to hold back IMO. She ended up sending her, and she is finishing up 1st grade and doing beautifully.
This is just ridiculous. Someone HAS to be last. Can't people just accept that their child/some child has to be the last one in some regard, in their class? And age does not entirely influence these things. Maturity and sexual maturation occurs at various ages for each child. I am so tired of this metality, as if our children are so fragile they can't handle waiting or being the last to do something or achieve something.
LOL this is completely ridiculous. Why do people even open their mouths to say crap like this? Girls don't all hit puberty magically at age 13! My group of friends all got their periods from 5th grade-11th grade.
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| Posted 5/20/13 10:00 AM |
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Jugglemom
LIF Adolescent
Member since 3/12 809 total posts
Name:
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
I don't understand? As long as both the law and the school district allow "red-shirting" what makes anyone on this forum qualified to judge which reasons for holding back are acceptable and which reasons are not. As we have seen on LIF different people place different values on things. Entrance age for college may not be important to you but it may be important to someone else. EBFing is important to some but not to others. Someone may have gotten relentlessly teased in middle school for being underdeveloped and hope to spare their child that trauma. Whatever people's reasons are only needs to make sense to them. It is not my place or anyone else to determine the validity of their reasoning.
Also, it is really easy to say what you would do when it is not our child with the late December bday.
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| Posted 5/20/13 12:16 PM |
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Kelly9904
Mommy to 2 amazing little boys
Member since 5/05 9306 total posts
Name:
Kelly
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by MrsS2005
From what I've heard, having a child repeat K can be more damaging psychologically than waiting a year before starting K.
We started DS a year early (if he went to public school he would be starting K in Sept 2013). he was 4 when he started K and turned 5 in December. We sent him to private school because I felt that if we were wrong and he wasnt ready for K, I didnt want him to wonder or ask why are all my friends moving to first grade while I am doing K again. There is another child in his class with a late birthday and they will be repeating K in the public school, not because he/she needs to but because the parents feel more comfortable with their child beign the oldest as opposed to the youngest.
My thought was should my DS need more time in K he will go to public school with all new kids and he wouldnt know any different. Should he do well we will move him to public school and into first grade (which is what we are doing)
there is a child in his class who turned 6 in September, at that point there were at least 6 - 4year olds in the class.
One of My issue with the red shirting is I feel it can make it MORE challenging for teachers. Your have kids who are six and kids who are 4, thats a big gap and I would imagine it makes things more difficult for the teachers.
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| Posted 5/20/13 3:36 PM |
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Kelly9904
Mommy to 2 amazing little boys
Member since 5/05 9306 total posts
Name:
Kelly
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Jugglemom
Also, it is really easy to say what you would do when it is not our child with the late December bday.
I get what you are saying as the parent of a late december birthday. I dont think anyone here was ''judging" imo. I felt this was just a debate/conversation.
But I think every parent goes through the internal struggle when sending their child to school, are they ready, how are they going to hold up, are they mature enough, after the going to keep up academically, would it be better if we could wait another year.
The decision is one that affects parents (on LI) whose kids birthdays are in September, October, November and December. And some who are even earlier.
We were in the position where our SD was saying because my son was born 12/20 he just wasnt ready to go to K, but if we moved 3-5 miles away that SD says he is ready. IMO it shows how not exact the whole cut off issue really is. And my son was ready, he did well in K despite his age. Yet some people are appalled that we sent him to full day Kindergarten before we HAD to.
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| Posted 5/20/13 3:43 PM |
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Disneygirl
Disney cruise bound!
Member since 5/05 8126 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Where I live the cutoff date was 9/1. DD's birthday is 8/26. I had no intention of holding DD back until her preschool brought it up to me. While she was in the 3's class it was recommended to me to have her repeat it due to emotional maturity. At first I was against it but eventually decided to take her advice and she really did blossom from that "extra" year in preschool. I did see a tremendous difference in her behavior the second time around in the 3yr class and she did great in pre-k as well. She is now finishing up Kindergarten as has done so well. I would never have based my decision on age alone, being a November baby myself, I started college at 17.
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| Posted 5/20/13 3:52 PM |
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itsbabytime
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 9644 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Jugglemom
I don't understand? As long as both the law and the school district allow "red-shirting" what makes anyone on this forum qualified to judge which reasons for holding back are acceptable and which reasons are not. As we have seen on LIF different people place different values on things. Entrance age for college may not be important to you but it may be important to someone else. EBFing is important to some but not to others. Someone may have gotten relentlessly teased in middle school for being underdeveloped and hope to spare their child that trauma. Whatever people's reasons are only needs to make sense to them. It is not my place or anyone else to determine the validity of their reasoning.
Also, it is really easy to say what you would do when it is not our child with the late December bday.
The point of my thread is that this is a loop hole in the system that is being completely abused. If there is a cut off it should be enforced plain and simple. The whole idea of grade levels and cut-offs is that a class grade should span one calendar year. I do feel I have the right to judge when it affects my child and when you have 7 year olds or almost 7 year olds in a class with 5 year olds.
I'm not sure why it is you are so defensive when everyone has repeatedly said it is a different case with kids that just make the cut off - especially with all the red shirting going on. In fact, you should be more pissed off than anyone because what if you had a child that was super smart but you would feel they had to be held back because they are 1.5 yrs younger than their classmates.
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| Posted 5/20/13 4:33 PM |
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Goobster
:)
Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
Name:
:)
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by itsbabytime
Posted by Jugglemom
I don't understand? As long as both the law and the school district allow "red-shirting" what makes anyone on this forum qualified to judge which reasons for holding back are acceptable and which reasons are not. As we have seen on LIF different people place different values on things. Entrance age for college may not be important to you but it may be important to someone else. EBFing is important to some but not to others. Someone may have gotten relentlessly teased in middle school for being underdeveloped and hope to spare their child that trauma. Whatever people's reasons are only needs to make sense to them. It is not my place or anyone else to determine the validity of their reasoning.
Also, it is really easy to say what you would do when it is not our child with the late December bday.
The point of my thread is that this is a loop hole in the system that is being completely abused. If there is a cut off it should be enforced plain and simple. The whole idea of grade levels and cut-offs is that a class grade should span one calendar year. I do feel I have the right to judge when it affects my child and when you have 7 year olds or almost 7 year olds in a class with 5 year olds.
I'm not sure why it is you are so defensive when everyone has repeatedly said it is a different case with kids that just make the cut off - especially with all the red shirting going on. In fact, you should be more pissed off than anyone because what if you had a child that was super smart but you would feel they had to be held back because they are 1.5 yrs younger than their classmates.
We are having a discussion that honestly effects ALL of us. It might actually harm MY child, the youngest child, as she gets older b/c she may be emotionally a bit more immature. This is very concerning to me.
Message edited 5/20/2013 6:31:00 PM.
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| Posted 5/20/13 4:41 PM |
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itsbabytime
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 9644 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Goobster
Posted by itsbabytime
Posted by Jugglemom
I don't understand? As long as both the law and the school district allow "red-shirting" what makes anyone on this forum qualified to judge which reasons for holding back are acceptable and which reasons are not. As we have seen on LIF different people place different values on things. Entrance age for college may not be important to you but it may be important to someone else. EBFing is important to some but not to others. Someone may have gotten relentlessly teased in middle school for being underdeveloped and hope to spare their child that trauma. Whatever people's reasons are only needs to make sense to them. It is not my place or anyone else to determine the validity of their reasoning.
Also, it is really easy to say what you would do when it is not our child with the late December bday.
The point of my thread is that this is a loop hole in the system that is being completely abused. If there is a cut off it should be enforced plain and simple. The whole idea of grade levels and cut-offs is that a class grade should span one calendar year. I do feel I have the right to judge when it affects my child and when you have 7 year olds or almost 7 year olds in a class with 5 year olds.
I'm not sure why it is you are so defensive when everyone has repeatedly said it is a different case with kids that just make the cut off - especially with all the red shirting going on. In fact, you should be more pissed off than anyone because what if you had a child that was super smart but you would feel they had to be held back because they are 1.5 yrs younger than their classmates.
We are having a discussion that honestly effects ALL of us. It might actually harm MY child, the youngest child, as she gets older b/c she may be emotionally a bit more immature? This is very concerning to me.
Exactly!
ETA: BF or not is completely irrelevant you are talking apples and oranges. Whether or not I EBF my child has no bearing on your child or anyone else but MY child and MY life. Different situation entirely - one has nothing to do with the other 
Message edited 5/20/2013 5:22:16 PM.
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| Posted 5/20/13 5:00 PM |
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Jugglemom
LIF Adolescent
Member since 3/12 809 total posts
Name:
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by itsbabytime
Posted by Goobster
Posted by itsbabytime
Posted by Jugglemom
I don't understand? As long as both the law and the school district allow "red-shirting" what makes anyone on this forum qualified to judge which reasons for holding back are acceptable and which reasons are not. As we have seen on LIF different people place different values on things. Entrance age for college may not be important to you but it may be important to someone else. EBFing is important to some but not to others. Someone may have gotten relentlessly teased in middle school for being underdeveloped and hope to spare their child that trauma. Whatever people's reasons are only needs to make sense to them. It is not my place or anyone else to determine the validity of their reasoning.
Also, it is really easy to say what you would do when it is not our child with the late December bday.
The point of my thread is that this is a loop hole in the system that is being completely abused. If there is a cut off it should be enforced plain and simple. The whole idea of grade levels and cut-offs is that a class grade should span one calendar year. I do feel I have the right to judge when it affects my child and when you have 7 year olds or almost 7 year olds in a class with 5 year olds.
I'm not sure why it is you are so defensive when everyone has repeatedly said it is a different case with kids that just make the cut off - especially with all the red shirting going on. In fact, you should be more pissed off than anyone because what if you had a child that was super smart but you would feel they had to be held back because they are 1.5 yrs younger than their classmates.
We are having a discussion that honestly effects ALL of us. It might actually harm MY child, the youngest child, as she gets older b/c she may be emotionally a bit more immature? This is very concerning to me.
Exactly!
ETA: BF or not is completely irrelevant you are talking apples and oranges. Whether or not I EBF my child has no bearing on your child or anyone else but MY child and MY life. Different situation entirely - one has nothing to do with the other
I only gave the BF example as a way to demonstrate that we all do what is best for our own children based on whatever ideas we have. I do not mean to come off as defensive because I truly do not feel that way I just at people trying to determine which reasons are valid ones and which aren't. I am not feeling defensive about my particular situation but rather at judging the decisions of other parents with regards to what hey feel is best for their own child.
Yes, I know it affects others because now it is THEIR children in the position of being the youngest - because the bottom line is that most people don't want their child to be the youngest. So, i do understand the concern however, it just doesn't really upset me in the way it upsets others on here, and, to me, if a parent feels that their child is not ready then I assume they came to that decision through thoughtful deliberation asked on their child's needs either in he present or their perceived future needs.
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| Posted 5/20/13 6:48 PM |
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itsbabytime
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 9644 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by itsbabytime
Posted by Goobster
Posted by itsbabytime
Posted by Jugglemom
I don't understand? As long as both the law and the school district allow "red-shirting" what makes anyone on this forum qualified to judge which reasons for holding back are acceptable and which reasons are not. As we have seen on LIF different people place different values on things. Entrance age for college may not be important to you but it may be important to someone else. EBFing is important to some but not to others. Someone may have gotten relentlessly teased in middle school for being underdeveloped and hope to spare their child that trauma. Whatever people's reasons are only needs to make sense to them. It is not my place or anyone else to determine the validity of their reasoning.
Also, it is really easy to say what you would do when it is not our child with the late December bday.
The point of my thread is that this is a loop hole in the system that is being completely abused. If there is a cut off it should be enforced plain and simple. The whole idea of grade levels and cut-offs is that a class grade should span one calendar year. I do feel I have the right to judge when it affects my child and when you have 7 year olds or almost 7 year olds in a class with 5 year olds.
I'm not sure why it is you are so defensive when everyone has repeatedly said it is a different case with kids that just make the cut off - especially with all the red shirting going on. In fact, you should be more pissed off than anyone because what if you had a child that was super smart but you would feel they had to be held back because they are 1.5 yrs younger than their classmates.
We are having a discussion that honestly effects ALL of us. It might actually harm MY child, the youngest child, as she gets older b/c she may be emotionally a bit more immature? This is very concerning to me.
Exactly!
ETA: BF or not is completely irrelevant you are talking apples and oranges. Whether or not I EBF my child has no bearing on your child or anyone else but MY child and MY life. Different situation entirely - one has nothing to do with the other
I only gave the BF example as a way to demonstrate that we all do what is best for our own children based on whatever ideas we have. I do not mean to come off as defensive because I truly do not feel that way I just at people trying to determine which reasons are valid ones and which aren't. I am not feeling defensive about my particular situation but rather at judging the decisions of other parents with regards to what hey feel is best for their own child.
Yes, I know it affects others because now it is THEIR children in the position of being the youngest - because the bottom line is that most people don't want their child to be the youngest. So, i do understand the concern however, it just doesn't really upset me in the way it upsets others on here, and, to me, if a parent feels that their child is not ready then I assume they came to that decision through thoughtful deliberation asked on their child's needs either in he present or their perceived future needs.
No. There is a difference between your child being the youngest and being ONE year younger than the all the others. You are not leveling the playing field. With Red-Shirting going on it is a different story...Then you have kids being well over a year older and, a situation where most of the kids in a classroom are 7-15 months older than the Sept. and beyond child. THAT is the situation I am talking to. And, yes, you are right...many parents come to this decision these days through deliberation ... deliberation as to how their child can be the absolute best. All the tutors and lessons in the world can't top being an entire year older 
Message edited 5/20/2013 7:00:39 PM.
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| Posted 5/20/13 6:58 PM |
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Goobster
:)
Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
Name:
:)
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Jugglemom
Yes, I know it affects others because now it is THEIR children in the position of being the youngest - because the bottom line is that most people don't want their child to be the youngest. .
Personally I don't mind my DC being the youngest or even more immature or less knowedgeable than others. I don't need my child to be the top of the class in any form. I just need her to do her best. My problem is that I just don't feel it's fair to ALTER the guidelines/set cutoff for a SD, which is what creates the NATURAL variation and curve within the classroom. I am very thankful that in my DCs Prek class, only one mom of a child who is of the younger ones is holding the DC back. So there about 4 or so children along with my DD (who is the absolute youngest) moving on to K. Thankfully most of the moms are going by the cutoff date. And yes, some of the DC are a bit immature or seem much younger, but that again is the NATURAL curve that will exist in the classroom (as it did this year in PreK).
Again just saying this in way of a discussion...I much prefer my DC to look up to older children than artificially be the oldest in the class with younger ones looking up to her. I always want her to strive and be surrounded by more advanced children, than to artifically be advanced.
Message edited 5/20/2013 9:19:30 PM.
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| Posted 5/20/13 9:15 PM |
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Merf99
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 3380 total posts
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Goobster
Posted by Jugglemom
Yes, I know it affects others because now it is THEIR children in the position of being the youngest - because the bottom line is that most people don't want their child to be the youngest. .
Personally I don't mind my DC being the youngest or even more immature or less knowedgeable than others. I don't need my child to be the top of the class in any form. I just need her to do her best. My problem is that I just don't feel it's fair to ALTER the guidelines/set cutoff for a SD, which is what creates the NATURAL variation and curve within the classroom. I am very thankful that in my DCs Prek class, only one mom of a child who is of the younger ones is holding the DC back. So there about 4 or so children along with my DD (who is the absolute youngest) moving on to K. Thankfully most of the moms are going by the cutoff date. And yes, some of the DC are a bit immature or seem much younger, but that again is the NATURAL curve that will exist in the classroom (as it did this year in PreK).
Again just saying this in way of a discussion...I much prefer my DC to look up to older children than artificially be the oldest in the class with younger ones looking up to her. I always want her to strive and be surrounded by
more advanced children, than to artifically be advanced.
You are assuming that the oldest child is going to be the smartest,fastest, best just because they are a year older. Def not always the case. I held my dd - she was the youngest jn her class last year. But that's not why I held her. Not going to get into her issues but it was a HUGE decision that took months to make that involved her teacher, the school officials, principal, doctors, etc. And ya know what? It was the best decision for HER. And not to sound mean but I really didn't take into consideration what it would do for the curve of the class because I needed to do what was best for my child. Now that she's one of the oldest in her class is she the best? Nope! Is she the smartest? Probably not. She fits in completely fine and is thriving. I really don't think that many people hold back. Trust me - I wish I didn't feel the need to. In her grade last year I think there were 4-5 kids who repeated. That's not that many out of 200+ students. So I dont think it skews the "curve" that much.
And this is coming from someone who was the youngest by far since I skipped a grade
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| Posted 5/20/13 10:41 PM |
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Goobster
:)
Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
Name:
:)
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Merf99
You are assuming that the oldest child is going to be the smartest,fastest, best just because they are a year older. Def not always the case. I held my dd - she was the youngest jn her class last year. But that's not why I held her. Not going to get into her issues but it was a HUGE decision that took months to make that involved her teacher, the school officials, principal, doctors, etc. And ya know what? It was the best decision for HER. And not to sound mean but I really didn't take into consideration what it would do for the curve of the class because I needed to do what was best for my child. Now that she's one of the oldest in her class is she the best? Nope! Is she the smartest? Probably not. She fits in completely fine and is thriving. I really don't think that many people hold back. Trust me - I wish I didn't feel the need to. In her grade last year I think there were 4-5 kids who repeated. That's not that many out of 200+ students. So I dont think it skews the "curve" that much.
I understand what you are saying about how she fairs now, but how does this play out years down the line? Let's say in 7th or 8th grade? And one or two children being redshirted is one thing. But I think some posters are concerned in their districts, it's becoming a trend for the wrong reasons.
Message edited 5/20/2013 11:07:50 PM.
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| Posted 5/20/13 11:06 PM |
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bpmom
Feeling Blessed
Member since 6/07 2963 total posts
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
I have a Nov child and will be enrolling him according to our school's calendar (at age 4) for kindergarten.
When I registered him for preschool this fall, the preschool teachers wanted him enrolled in the 3yr old program because they want me to keep him out of kindergarten until he's 5. She said a lot of parents are doing this because it's the only chance to hold the kid back (ie if the kid isn't mature enough for 1st grade, the school districts will still pass him.)
I understand keeping a less mature kid in nursery school longer - oldest DS is 5 and in pre-K and has a good friend who is a Dec birthday - his mom is keeping him back because he's emotionally young and some of his motor skills aren't at the same level as his classmates. On bicycle days or gym days, her son is very frustrated with is inability to keep up with his peers and his mom had to make the call to keep him back. I agree with that decision because her son's kindergarten experience wouldn't be positive.
I also know another mom with two Oct birthday sons who is red-shirting both because her DH wants them to be bigger so they can get sports scholarships. Their daughter got a full ride for athletics in college and even though the mom is against it, her husband convinced her that they'll save upwards of $200k if the boys are the bigger ones in their grade. To me, that's not a good enough reason to hold my DS back. What if he hates sports? What if he's injured and can't play competitively? What lesson does that teach him about where my priorities are as his parent?
DH is an Oct birthday, started Kindergarten at age 4 and has been fine. Was last of his friends to grow up tall, last to drive, was 17 at college, --- he's fine.
My bro is a Sept birthday, and he was held back in kindergarten because teachers and my parents said he wasn't ready for first grade. He's fine.
In my hometown district (upstate), kids were held back up until 2nd grade. I remember growing up with several kids who weren't mature enough/ready to go to 3rd grade so they repeated 2nd grade. Either their parents or the district decided to "hold them back." I don't think districts do that anymore?
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| Posted 5/21/13 9:31 AM |
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itsbabytime
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 9644 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Since I started this thread I really want to clarify what exactly I was speaking to since my question seems to have gotten lost. I am NOT saying that children that are born at the end of the year that are behind their peers socially or academically or developmentally should never be held back. I am NOT questioning the mothers that have held their children back for these reasons. IN FACT, I feel that the situation I am complaining about makes it almost impossible (unless your child is advanced) to NOT hold them back!
The situation that is happening in my area more and more - is that parents are using this as a competitive tool - much like many previous posters have described. Are all red-shirted kids geniuses? Absolutely not. All I am saying is that if you have a September birthday child that is a smart, well adjusted, developmentally skilled child you should NOT be allowed to hold your child back simply to achieve a competitive advantage for them. Honestly, my child is doing great even being one of the youngest in the class he is almost the smartest and NONE of his teachers have ever said one thing about him being younger. This is NOT coming from that place. I feel more sorry for the kids and even his friends that are being red-shirted when they shouldn't be - that have to feel they are being held back when many of their friends are going forward. I also feel it is not fair into the future. Why shouldn't my DS be able to compete on a fair athletic playing field based on ability? Why should he not be the best he can be because he is playing against much older kids that were red-shirted.
Again, my point was only that they need to stop the ABUSE of this loop-hole that has started to become a trend. All I am asking is that they move the cut-off earlier and stick to it! Honestly, the end of year birthday moms should be the most happy about this!
And, still, only a few have answered my actual question and, honestly, I'm not sure how the best way is to go about initiating change because obviously it is a very sensitive subject and not coincidentally those parents that are doing this are the ones that are super involved in the school. Moreover, I'm sure the district loves it - they encourage it because generally the older a child is starting school the better they perform and the better it looks for the school
Message edited 5/21/2013 9:48:49 AM.
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| Posted 5/21/13 9:46 AM |
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