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Dulcinea
Weekend Warrior
Member since 3/08 2530 total posts
Name:
Dulcinea
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Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
... with taxpayers money?
Every industry is feeling the effects of the recession right now, auto industry, financial, insurance, etc.... There's even speculation that the retail industry will be facing its worst holiday season in decades.
How do you feel about this, should we bail out the auto industry? Where do we draw the line?
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Posted 11/12/08 3:44 PM  |
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CathyB
Member since 5/05 19403 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
I'm so torn. I hate the thought of taxpayers having to bailout all these industries, but I hate the thought of all those people losing their jobs even more.
I feel like it's a no win situation.
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| Posted 11/12/08 3:50 PM |
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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
Posted by CathyB
I'm so torn. I hate the thought of taxpayers having to bailout all these industries, but I hate the thought of all those people losing their jobs even more.
I feel like it's a no win situation.
ITA. The problem is when factories close down, entire towns, counties and cities around them crumble. So many places are populated with families who rely on the Auto Industry. I can't help but think of "Roger and Me....."
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| Posted 11/12/08 3:52 PM |
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neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
Posted by CathyB
I'm so torn. I hate the thought of taxpayers having to bailout all these industries, but I hate the thought of all those people losing their jobs even more.
I feel like it's a no win situation.
ITA.
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| Posted 11/12/08 3:58 PM |
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MrsFab
this is bliss.......
Member since 10/08 1234 total posts
Name:
Mb
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
Posted by CathyB
I'm so torn. I hate the thought of taxpayers having to bailout all these industries, but I hate the thought of all those people losing their jobs even more.
I feel like it's a no win situation.
I said no, let them deal before I read this- and I agree just didnt think of it like that
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| Posted 11/12/08 4:01 PM |
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MrsK914
LIF Infant
Member since 10/08 337 total posts
Name:
Stacey
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
ITA with everyone. Its a huge Catch 22! Is there anyway to aid them without totally bailing them out? We, the people, are who suffer.
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| Posted 11/12/08 4:04 PM |
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HeatherRose
Life is Good :)
Member since 11/07 6605 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
its a tough situation. like someone else said this effects a lot more lives, and they are taxpayers to.
But when do we stop bailing everyone out? no one will learn if they get an easy ticket out.
And then what about all the little guys?? I work for a small copmany in an industry that is suffering, but unlike the big auto industry, this is all small business owners. We would never see help when we can't survive.
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| Posted 11/12/08 4:05 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
I don't think we have a choice.
I am so angry about this b/c I FRIGGING HATE BIG BUSINESS.
I hate their lobbyist and their practices.
I hate that the "chiefs" of these companies will sit pretty while their employees are laid off and have to fend for themselves.
I HATE that there is ZERO accountability....
BUT...and the but is huge...
if we let them go under, and so many people lose their jobs...even forgetting about the bleeding heart aspect...
more people on social services, less people with medical insurance (and more people in the ER for easily treatable afflictions) MORE crime. MORE homelessness. MORE strain on the taxpayers dollars.
and then there is simply that...my achy breaky heart...that feels TERRIBLY that people will have to suffer b/c of a combination of so many things (greed, bad luck, poor timing, poor planning etc) people losing their homes, going hungry...it's just awful.
I still say that the "LEADERSHIP" of these companies should get the SAME PACKAGE as every other employee. it's disgraceful how they jump into the biggest poshest life raft when they should be going down with their ship!
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| Posted 11/12/08 4:05 PM |
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Dulcinea
Weekend Warrior
Member since 3/08 2530 total posts
Name:
Dulcinea
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
Honestly, I'm leaning more towards 'let them deal'...
The auto industry has been digging itself deeper and deeper into this mess because they ignore the need to remain competitive by building more fuel efficient cars. In fact, they did the total opposite and introduced more gas guzzlers...
I don't see the Japanese auto makers having this financial issue.
Now they're asking for a handout?
While I feel bad for the people and towns that will be affected by this catastrophe, I think we need to practice abit of tough love. The big 3 American car manufacturers should learn their lesson, while the laid off employees can collect unemployment.
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| Posted 11/12/08 4:09 PM |
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MrsM-6-7-08
<3
Member since 8/06 4249 total posts
Name:
Nicole
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
As someone with 2 american cars. My answer is no. I have a 2003 ford and the paint on my hood is completely flaking off. It looks terrible
This is a defect that many fords have and ford will not fix. I have found a lot of websites with complaints from people about it.
I know many people with foreign cars and their paint jobs look good as new.
eta: I feel that the auto industry has failed at making quality cars and that is why people have bought hondas and toyotas etc.
I know my next car will not be a ford
Message edited 11/12/2008 4:20:02 PM.
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| Posted 11/12/08 4:12 PM |
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mrsej
The cutest!
Member since 1/07 2495 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
i am torn - is the government going to take over every business in trouble?
The American automobile industry has consistently resisted all efforts by the government, to mandate more fuel efficient models, choosing instead to flood the market with SUVs.
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| Posted 11/12/08 4:15 PM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
I tend to go with No.
If the bailout of AIG taught us anything, its that these fatcats who cause the damage will jump with a golden parachute and continue to live like kings if they get bailed out.
With AIG, I understand the necessity. so many people's pensions were tied up to it.
But with the car industry, I think most people learned not to invest in them a while ago.
Not to mention, they completely ignored industry trends and created such gas guzzlers, that people can barely afford to fill up the their tank anymore. The auto industry needs to be accountable for thier mistakes.
As sad as it is that these people will lose their jobs, what about EVERYONE ELSE losing their jobs right now? Go look at the career board. Its filled with people getting laid off. So even if businesses remain in business, people lose their jobs.
Not to mention, who is bailing me out? My DH has his own business that is struggling in this economy. Because of the crash, DH won't be able to get a business loan at a reasonable rate. But he is making due. Where is our bailout if we need it?
Message edited 11/12/2008 4:19:55 PM.
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| Posted 11/12/08 4:18 PM |
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1stimemom
Love my boys
Member since 2/08 8766 total posts
Name:
Mrs Dee
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
Posted by Dulcinea
Honestly, I'm leaning more towards 'let them deal'...
The auto industry has been digging itself deeper and deeper into this mess because they ignore the need to remain competitive by building more fuel efficient cars. In fact, they did the total opposite and introduced more gas guzzlers...
I don't see the Japanese auto makers having this financial issue.
Now they're asking for a handout?
While I feel bad for the people and towns that will be affected by this catastrophe, I think we need to practice abit of tough love. The big 3 American car manufacturers should learn their lesson, while the laid off employees can collect unemployment.
The manufacturers only make more of what people buy. They wonldn't be making "gas guzzlers" if that is not what people were buying. Supply and demand.
And as for Japanese auto makers, they are in just as much trouble, BTW
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| Posted 11/12/08 4:19 PM |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
I don't know- I'm so torn.
On the one hand, to bail them out is like rewarding bad business decisions that have been going on in the US auto industry since the 70s. There's no way, with the current state of the cars US automakers produce AND the pensions/union contracts they have, that they can stay solvent. To me, it's throwing good money after bad. If they don't renegotiate the contracts in a meaningful way AND change their product to something people actually want to buy- why delay the inevitable. Sure, we can bail them out now- but whatabout in another 5-10 years when they STILL aren't doing well and STILL aren't selling cars?
Do I think this economy can take the devastation of the automakers and their supply chain going under? No. But I also don't think bailing out bad industry is good for tax payers either.
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| Posted 11/12/08 4:26 PM |
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bella
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 1871 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
Posted by Ophelia
I don't think we have a choice.
I am so angry about this b/c I FRIGGING HATE BIG BUSINESS.
I hate their lobbyist and their practices.
I hate that the "chiefs" of these companies will sit pretty while their employees are laid off and have to fend for themselves.
I HATE that there is ZERO accountability....
BUT...and the but is huge...
if we let them go under, and so many people lose their jobs...even forgetting about the bleeding heart aspect...
more people on social services, less people with medical insurance (and more people in the ER for easily treatable afflictions) MORE crime. MORE homelessness. MORE strain on the taxpayers dollars.
and then there is simply that...my achy breaky heart...that feels TERRIBLY that people will have to suffer b/c of a combination of so many things (greed, bad luck, poor timing, poor planning etc) people losing their homes, going hungry...it's just awful.
I still say that the "LEADERSHIP" of these companies should get the SAME PACKAGE as every other employee. it's disgraceful how they jump into the biggest poshest life raft when they should be going down with their ship!
I agree with a lot of this. I was just actualy about to post with my total disgust as to what is happening with this bailout plan though. It seems like the way it is to be used keeps changing, first they were going to buy the bad loans, then they were not. Now it's going to other industries not just financial and in the meantime I keep hearing how lobbyists are chomping at the bit to get some of this money and the people it is going to help I'm not even sure are using it the right way.....just read about AIG guys taking yet another lavish retreat...do they not learn....and about Goldman sachs and Morgan Stanley having horded billinos to pay bonuses. Now, I work in the financial sector and understand bonuses make up a lot of people's compensation but on the other hand I don't feel badly for someone making a really nice salary that is going to miss out on a million dollar bonus....this whole thing just reeks of not solving anything... THAT is my biggest fear....they take all this money and throw it at all these companies in all these different industries and things don't get better. Is there any plan on how these companies ar eto use the moeny or structure to it? I know we need a quick fix but maybe it wasn't thoroughly thought out....It's sort of like the stimulus package concept, throw money at people and it will get better....well it didn't work the first time and I doubt it will the second time as the deficit continues to soar....sorry, this is just really frustrating to me today as I said I work in finance and just got a very good job but every day wonder if the other shoe may drop......these are scary times in our country....
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| Posted 11/12/08 4:26 PM |
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Jenn627
Laaaaaaaambert!
Member since 5/08 9818 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
Posted by Shelly
I tend to go with No.
If the bailout of AIG taught us anything, its that these fatcats who cause the damage will jump with a golden parachute and continue to live like kings if they get bailed out.
With AIG, I understand the necessity. so many people's pensions were tied up to it.
But with the car industry, I think most people learned not to invest in them a while ago.
Not to mention, they completely ignored industry trends and created such gas guzzlers, that people can barely afford to fill up the their tank anymore. The auto industry needs to be accountable for thier mistakes.
As sad as it is that these people will lose their jobs, what about EVERYONE ELSE losing their jobs right now? Go look at the career board. Its filled with people getting laid off. So even if businesses remain in business, people lose their jobs.
Not to mention, who is bailing me out? My DH has his own business that is struggling in this economy. Because of the crash, DH won't be able to get a business loan at a reasonable rate. But he is making due. Where is our bailout if we need it?
While I agree with you and lean towards no I disagree with your statement re: industry trends and gas guzzlers. Individuals need to be held accountable too. If you didn't NEED a gas guzzler you shouldn't have bought it. I have no sympathy for people who blame industries for making the products.
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| Posted 11/12/08 4:33 PM |
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Dulcinea
Weekend Warrior
Member since 3/08 2530 total posts
Name:
Dulcinea
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
Posted by 1stimemom
The manufacturers only make more of what people buy. They wonldn't be making "gas guzzlers" if that is not what people were buying. Supply and demand.
And as for Japanese auto makers, they are in just as much trouble, BTW
I haven't heard about the Japan auto industry asking for a handout. Would be curious to know if they are...
As for the supply and demand, I think marketing and peer pressure has alot to do with us buying these gas guzzlers.
The auto industry threw tons of money at marketing these SUVs but rarely market fuel efficient cars. Have you even seen a single commercial for the EV1 car (the electric car that preceded the Chevy Volt) back in the 90's?
Plus, I know of alot of people who buy SUV/CUV gas guzzlers 'cus they feel safe. And why? They say 'cus there are other SUVs/CUVs out there on the road and if they don't get something comparable they won't feel safe if god forbid they get into a collision with them... Go figure.
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| Posted 11/12/08 4:33 PM |
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Mommy2Boys
My Boys!!!!
Member since 6/06 14437 total posts
Name:
C
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
Posted by Shelly
I tend to go with No.
If the bailout of AIG taught us anything, its that these fatcats who cause the damage will jump with a golden parachute and continue to live like kings if they get bailed out.
With AIG, I understand the necessity. so many people's pensions were tied up to it.
But with the car industry, I think most people learned not to invest in them a while ago.
Not to mention, they completely ignored industry trends and created such gas guzzlers, that people can barely afford to fill up the their tank anymore. The auto industry needs to be accountable for thier mistakes.
As sad as it is that these people will lose their jobs, what about EVERYONE ELSE losing their jobs right now? Go look at the career board. Its filled with people getting laid off. So even if businesses remain in business, people lose their jobs.
Not to mention, who is bailing me out? My DH has his own business that is struggling in this economy. Because of the crash, DH won't be able to get a business loan at a reasonable rate. But he is making due. Where is our bailout if we need it?
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| Posted 11/12/08 5:11 PM |
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stickydust
Now a mommy of 2!!!
Member since 4/06 3164 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
Posted by Dulcinea
I don't see the Japanese auto makers having this financial issue.
One of the reasons that Japanese Auto makers have less financial difficulties that the the big 3 is that they do not have to deal with the United Auto Workers Union. The UAW contracts make it so that the profits per car on an American car is significantly less than a japanese car - on some cars they do not make a profit at all. The Japanese companies are not paying their workers the hefty salaries, insurance benefits and good pensions - so they save a lot of money. The UAW has a stronghold on the industry and it is going to bite them in the behind.
The failure of the auto industry is complex and not as simplistic as "they made gas guzzling cars". The switch over to fuel efficient cars has not been as dramatic as you would think and you will note that MANY people swear by SUVs and the such. To cater to the American public they have begun to introduce crossover vehicles. In addition, right now, they are especially hurting due to the credit crunch which makes it more difficult for people the purchase cars.
Message edited 11/12/2008 5:13:31 PM.
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| Posted 11/12/08 5:12 PM |
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CunningOne
***
Member since 5/05 26975 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
yes
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| Posted 11/12/08 5:22 PM |
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DancinBarefoot
06ers Rock!!
Member since 1/07 9534 total posts
Name:
The One My Mother Gave Me ;-)
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
I agree with so much of what has been posted thus far I just want to add that IF the auto industry is bailed out there MUST be some strict guidelines on how the $$ is spent. There cannot be golden parachutes for executives, there cannot be big payouts for executives, there must be $$ spent on converting plants to manufacture smaller fuel efficient cars instead of gas guzzlers (whether it is an SUV or a Mustang). If we are going to bail them out, we have to have a plan to make sure good money isn't throw after bad or we'll be right back here asking the same question.
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| Posted 11/12/08 5:42 PM |
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
If we do, at what point does it stop? I understand that it will probably need to be done, but it's ridiculous that WE are the ones footing the bill. 
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| Posted 11/12/08 6:41 PM |
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MrsRivera
2 under 2...whew!!
Member since 2/07 9876 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
Absolutely not, no way. They've made insane profits for years, let them figure it out.
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| Posted 11/12/08 7:05 PM |
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mommy2Alex
3 babies for me :)
Member since 5/05 6683 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
I don't think so. What is next? Are we going to start bailing out the Walmarts and Best Buys too? Companies need to accept fiscal responsibility for themselves.
Message edited 11/12/2008 7:23:01 PM.
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| Posted 11/12/08 7:22 PM |
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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Should the Auto Industry Be Bailed Out? ..
Posted by stinkysmom80
As someone with 2 american cars. My answer is no. I have a 2003 ford and the paint on my hood is completely flaking off. It looks terrible
This is a defect that many fords have and ford will not fix. I have found a lot of websites with complaints from people about it.
I know many people with foreign cars and their paint jobs look good as new.
eta: I feel that the auto industry has failed at making quality cars and that is why people have bought hondas and toyotas etc.
I know my next car will not be a ford
Ford is prpbably the worst American car company. If you do a search I believe they have the highest amount of recalls on their vehichles. Shame since it was the pioneering automobile company....
Also FYI, Toyotas are made in America. They have 2 divisions - Toyota Japan & Toyota USA. Only one model of Toyota (Scion, actually) is still made exclusively in Japan.
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| Posted 11/12/08 7:46 PM |
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