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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
they reap the hefty profits when times are good.
have a HUGE impact on the economy
but need to bailed out by the taxpayers when times are bad (ie: their executives made VERY bad decisions and investments)
should they all be subject to permanent regulation?
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Posted 11/24/08 7:45 PM  |
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CathyB
Member since 5/05 19403 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
I voted yes, but I'm not sure about permanent regulation.
I think that the bailouts should all be loans that need to be paid back and until they are paid back there should be oversight.
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| Posted 11/24/08 7:58 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by CathyB
I voted yes, but I'm not sure about permanent regulation.
I think that the bailouts should all be loans that need to be paid back and until they are paid back there should be oversight.
yes but what if this happens again someday? I honestly feel like it will. maybe not 5 or 10 yrs from now, but it's possible.
unfortunately, we have not learned much from history and have repeated it. ie: the 70's oil crisis and then what happened over the summer. we never did anything about our energy dependence. and now that gas is down to $2 a gallon, everyone will once again shelve alternative energy.
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| Posted 11/24/08 8:07 PM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by CathyB
I voted yes, but I'm not sure about permanent regulation.
I think that the bailouts should all be loans that need to be paid back and until they are paid back there should be oversight.
yes but what if this happens again someday? I honestly feel like it will. maybe not 5 or 10 yrs from now, but it's possible.
unfortunately, we have not learned much from history and have repeated it. ie: the 70's oil crisis and then what happened over the summer. we never did anything about our energy dependence. and now that gas is down to $2 a gallon, everyone will once again shelve alternative energy.
I think things like this move in cycles just like the economy does. You have a period of deregulation which can lead to what we are seeing now, such as the credit crisis, which lends itself to regulation that eventually becomes over regulation. This will in turn lead to deregulation. It's a cycle and until we learn to balance the egg in the center, it will continue.
On your other statement, part of the reason that gas and oil prices has dropped is due to a decrease in demand. This means that consumers are demanding - thus- using less. I don't believe that alternative energy will be shelved. I think that the drop in oil prices is needed to continue to develop alternative energy. Even at the highs of crude, alternative energy was not cost effective for the average consumer. Until alternative energy becomes cost effective, we still need to develop it with the aid of old means.
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| Posted 11/24/08 8:55 PM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by CathyB
I voted yes, but I'm not sure about permanent regulation.
I think that the bailouts should all be loans that need to be paid back and until they are paid back there should be oversight.
I agree with this.
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| Posted 11/24/08 8:58 PM |
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Kidsaplenty
Sister love
Member since 2/06 5971 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Subject to strict regulation until the loan is paid back.
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| Posted 11/24/08 9:00 PM |
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snowflake08
Love my boys!!!
Member since 8/07 5148 total posts
Name:
Laura
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
without getting into it really - i say no - this will be the END of capitalism
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| Posted 11/24/08 9:06 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by snowflake08
without getting into it really - i say no - this will be the END of capitalism
but isn't it already the end of it? if all these firms need to be bailed out by taxpayers or go belly up, how is that capitalism?
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| Posted 11/24/08 9:08 PM |
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Kidsaplenty
Sister love
Member since 2/06 5971 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by snowflake08
without getting into it really - i say no - this will be the END of capitalism
but isn't it already the end of it? if all these firms need to be bailed out by taxpayers or go belly up, how is that capitalism?
Exactly!
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| Posted 11/24/08 9:10 PM |
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snowflake08
Love my boys!!!
Member since 8/07 5148 total posts
Name:
Laura
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by snowflake08
without getting into it really - i say no - this will be the END of capitalism
but isn't it already the end of it? if all these firms need to be bailed out by taxpayers or go belly up, how is that capitalism?
yup - it already is and this will just add more on to it - I didnt agree with any of it
Will the gov't then bail out the mom and pop shop that is about to close or the bodega on the corner?
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| Posted 11/24/08 9:10 PM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by snowflake08
without getting into it really - i say no - this will be the END of capitalism
I think government intervention at any level goes against the pure ideology of capitalism. If we were to be a pure capitalist society - we would let the big 3 fall, AIG fall, Citi fall, etc. I don't think there can ever be pure capitalism. I think Alan Greenspan tried very hard to govern the markets like based on Adam Smith theories of free markets and that didn't work out too well in the end.
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| Posted 11/24/08 9:13 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by snowflake08
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by snowflake08
without getting into it really - i say no - this will be the END of capitalism
but isn't it already the end of it? if all these firms need to be bailed out by taxpayers or go belly up, how is that capitalism?
yup - it already is and this will just add more on to it - I didnt agree with any of it
Will the gov't then bail out the mom and pop shop that is about to close or the bodega on the corner?
I didn't agree with it either.
the main point of my post is that if there is no regulation, what's to stop this crisis from happening again? in 30 years, will banks again loan people money who have no way to pay it back? I really can't believe that we're in this mess to begin with! WHAT WERE THEY THINKING????? 
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| Posted 11/24/08 9:15 PM |
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Kidsaplenty
Sister love
Member since 2/06 5971 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
the main point of my post is that if there is no regulation, what's to stop this crisis from happening again? in 30 years, will banks again loan people money who have no way to pay it back? I really can't believe that we're in this mess to begin with! WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?????
Do you know what makes me really angry about all of this?
Because of everyone's irresponsibility here (lenders and borrowers) real estate prices sky rocketed. And people like DH and I may never own a home on LI, because we know we would be cutting it tight.
Meanwhile, everyone else is getting bailed out. HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?
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| Posted 11/24/08 9:25 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by greeneyes361708
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
the main point of my post is that if there is no regulation, what's to stop this crisis from happening again? in 30 years, will banks again loan people money who have no way to pay it back? I really can't believe that we're in this mess to begin with! WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?????
Do you know what makes me really angry about all of this?
Because of everyone's irresponsibility here (lenders and borrowers) real estate prices sky rocketed. And people like DH and I may never own a home on LI, because we know we would be cutting it tight.
Meanwhile, everyone else is getting bailed out. HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?
you and I are in the same boat!
these crooks drove up the prices for YEARS to a level we couldn't live with. and now these crooks are getting OUR tax dollars to be bailed out! 
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| Posted 11/24/08 9:28 PM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
the main point of my post is that if there is no regulation, what's to stop this crisis from happening again? in 30 years, will banks again loan people money who have no way to pay it back? I really can't believe that we're in this mess to begin with! WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?????
Banks were being encouraged to give mortgages to everyone and they were being told that they can take on those risky mortgages because Fannie and Freddie, quasi government agencies, will back them. The banks said, great! Then Alan Greenspan said, "Let's drop the fed funds rate to 1% and make borrowing money really cheap." Then you had the home buyer who said, "With just paying interest, I can afford my $500,000 home on an annual salary of $30,000. - Home prices just go up anyway." Then the now home owner has a home that's price is completely inflated because of the buying frenzy pull out $100,000 out of his home because it appraises at $750,000 now. He buys a boat and a Land Rover. Investment banks roll this sh$t in pretty paper and make their flower delivery to the investors, who say thank you for letting me buy this collateralized debt obligation that is safe but yields 10% annually.
Everyone lost their common sense. Real estate doesn't keep going up in leaps and bounds...there is a reason why it averages 3-4 % a year. No agency can secure billions of dollars in bad loans even with cute names and sh$t wrapped in flower paper is still sh&t.
So, yes, it will happen again in some way, shape or form. As long as there are greedy consumers, investors and business people - there will be these implosions.
Message edited 11/24/2008 9:30:12 PM.
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| Posted 11/24/08 9:29 PM |
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MrsERod
Praying for Everyone.
Member since 5/05 26170 total posts
Name:
MrsERod™®
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
yes
until EVERY PENNY is paid back, they absolutely should be regulated
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| Posted 11/24/08 9:30 PM |
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snowflake08
Love my boys!!!
Member since 8/07 5148 total posts
Name:
Laura
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by greeneyes361708
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
the main point of my post is that if there is no regulation, what's to stop this crisis from happening again? in 30 years, will banks again loan people money who have no way to pay it back? I really can't believe that we're in this mess to begin with! WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?????
Do you know what makes me really angry about all of this?
Because of everyone's irresponsibility here (lenders and borrowers) real estate prices sky rocketed. And people like DH and I may never own a home on LI, because we know we would be cutting it tight.
Meanwhile, everyone else is getting bailed out. HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?
exactly! and not only that - what about the people that struggled to pay their mortgages and credit cards?? now they are paying for everyone else's mistakes -
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| Posted 11/24/08 9:31 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by shamrock124
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
the main point of my post is that if there is no regulation, what's to stop this crisis from happening again? in 30 years, will banks again loan people money who have no way to pay it back? I really can't believe that we're in this mess to begin with! WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?????
Banks were being encouraged to give mortgages to everyone and they were being told that they can take on those risky mortgages because Fannie and Freddie, quasi government agencies, will back them. The banks said, great! Then Alan Greenspan said, "Let's drop the fed funds rate to 1% and make borrowing money really cheap." Then you had the home buyer who said, "With just paying interest, I can afford my $500,000 home on an annual salary of $30,000. - Home prices just go up anyway." Then the now home owner has a home that's price is completely inflated because of the buying frenzy pull out $100,000 out of his home because it appraises at $750,000 now. He buys a boat and a Land Rover. Investment banks roll this sh$t in pretty paper and make their flower delivery to the investors, who say thank you for letting me buy this collateralized debt obligation that is safe but yields 10% annually.
Everyone lost their common sense. Real estate doesn't keep going up in leaps and bounds...there is a reason why it averages 3-4 % a year. No agency can secure billions of dollars in bad loans even with cute names and sh$t wrapped in flower paper is still sh&t.
So, yes, it will happen again in some way, shape or form. As long as there are greedy consumers, investors and business people - there will be these implosions.
thank you for this very eloquent explanation  seriously though - well done!! 
and your last sentence is exactly why regulation IS needed, permanently.
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| Posted 11/24/08 9:32 PM |
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butterfly20
Party of 5 - 2015
Member since 4/06 7390 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by greeneyes361708
Subject to strict regulation until the loan is paid back.
i agree. this seems fair- you want to borrow the govt money- then you have to play by their rules
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| Posted 11/24/08 9:36 PM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
and your last sentence is exactly why regulation IS needed, permanently.
But on the flip side, you have greedy politicians who use regulation to pad their own pockets. Although regulation can be a good thing - it easily turns into over regulation. And regulation tends to mean high taxes for everyone around which isn't always the right answer either.
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| Posted 11/24/08 9:37 PM |
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snowflake08
Love my boys!!!
Member since 8/07 5148 total posts
Name:
Laura
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by shamrock124
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
and your last sentence is exactly why regulation IS needed, permanently.
But on the flip side, you have greedy politicians who use regulation to pad their own pockets. Although regulation can be a good thing - it easily turns into over regulation. And regulation tends to mean high taxes for everyone around which isn't always the right answer either.
right
borrow the government's money but at whose expense??
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| Posted 11/24/08 9:39 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by shamrock124
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
and your last sentence is exactly why regulation IS needed, permanently.
But on the flip side, you have greedy politicians who use regulation to pad their own pockets. Although regulation can be a good thing - it easily turns into over regulation. And regulation tends to mean high taxes for everyone around which isn't always the right answer either.
companies who have such a huge impact on the economy should not be allowed to do what they've been doing for the past 10-12 years. these greedy execs belong behind bars! not bailed out with their million $ salaries in tact
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| Posted 11/24/08 9:41 PM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by shamrock124
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
and your last sentence is exactly why regulation IS needed, permanently.
But on the flip side, you have greedy politicians who use regulation to pad their own pockets. Although regulation can be a good thing - it easily turns into over regulation. And regulation tends to mean high taxes for everyone around which isn't always the right answer either.
companies who have such a huge impact on the economy should not be allowed to do what they've been doing for the past 10-12 years. these greedy execs belong behind bars! not bailed out with their million $ salaries in tact
In all fairness, all these companies are public companies and the shareholders had opportunities to to see what every executive was getting contracted for. It's in the annual reports that everyone has access to.
The problem isn't the executive comp - which I don't necessarily agree with - the problem is much deeper then that and much more complicated. It also isn't just the greedy executives either - there was greed all around the table.
There is also regulation that should be in place that goes beyond the board room. The meltdown in October was spurred, in large part, to the ability to short stock. At one point in time, you could only short a stock on the uptick. Since that mandate has been removed, you can short on the down side and that is when Lehman went bye-bye.
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| Posted 11/24/08 9:51 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by shamrock124
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by shamrock124
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
and your last sentence is exactly why regulation IS needed, permanently.
But on the flip side, you have greedy politicians who use regulation to pad their own pockets. Although regulation can be a good thing - it easily turns into over regulation. And regulation tends to mean high taxes for everyone around which isn't always the right answer either.
companies who have such a huge impact on the economy should not be allowed to do what they've been doing for the past 10-12 years. these greedy execs belong behind bars! not bailed out with their million $ salaries in tact
In all fairness, all these companies are public companies and the shareholders had opportunities to to see what every executive was getting contracted for. It's in the annual reports that everyone has access to.
The problem isn't the executive comp - which I don't necessarily agree with - the problem is much deeper then that and much more complicated. It also isn't just the greedy executives either - there was greed all around the table.
There is also regulation that should be in place that goes beyond the board room. The meltdown in October was spurred, in large part, to the ability to short stock. At one point in time, you could only short a stock on the uptick. Since that mandate has been removed, you can short on the down side and that is when Lehman went bye-bye.
I agree with the short selling comment you made.
but in reality, do you think investors knew all the details of the shady lending practices that were going on? I don't know about anyone else, but having that knowledge would keep me far away from investing in them.
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| Posted 11/24/08 9:55 PM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
Name:
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Re: Should the firms who need to be bailed out be regulated by the Gov't?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
I agree with the short selling comment you made.
but in reality, do you think investors knew all the details of the shady lending practices that were going on? I don't know about anyone else, but having that knowledge would keep me far away from investing in them.
Absolutely not because the executives really didn't even understand it. No one can really figure out the credit default swap - it was like selling the Brooklyn bridge over and over again.
What I do know is that I looked around LI 4 years ago and asked my DH "Where are all the jobs that can support this housing market?"One would have to be making 250K plus to afford these McMansions and the property tax. It didn't make sense then and now we know a lot of it was a house of cards.
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| Posted 11/25/08 5:42 AM |
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