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nrthshgrl
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Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
IN 1984, the Supreme Court rulled that the display of secular objects did not violate the Constitutional ban against governmental establishment of religion.
The court's majority reasoned that the display had a secular purpose -- namely, to celebrate a national tradition and holiday recognized by Congress.
Without getting into whether or not government's should display all religious objects/no religiious objects, the question is
Do you feel that a Santa Claus hat is a secular(non-religious) object?
My feeling is without question it is a Catholic symbol. St. Nick is a Catholic saint. Granted the season of giving & the theory behind the holiday is one that is shared by all religions but the guy himself is Catholic.
Message edited 12/19/2006 10:36:12 AM.
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Posted 12/19/06 10:35 AM  |
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dpli
Daylight savings :)
Member since 5/05 13973 total posts
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D
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
I see it as a secular symbol. St. Nick may be a saint, but I doubt most people think about that when they see Santa. Also, when I go to church during the Christmas season, I don't see Santa being displayed anywhere. To me it is secular, not a religious symbol.
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| Posted 12/19/06 10:38 AM |
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MrsMerlot
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Member since 4/06 6005 total posts
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Chrissy
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
santa = secular
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| Posted 12/19/06 10:40 AM |
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Kate07
Feel better my little guy!
Member since 5/05 4476 total posts
Name:
Kate
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
secular
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| Posted 12/19/06 10:40 AM |
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jxnoscar
Baby Delicious!
Member since 8/06 4156 total posts
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Nancy
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
Maybe he was a religious symbol 30 years ago, but him, along with the "holiday" tree are no longer religious symbols (IMO) as many people who aren't Christian celebrate this holiday as a sign of family/friends happiness and love.
Message edited 12/19/2006 10:41:46 AM.
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| Posted 12/19/06 10:41 AM |
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MikesWife
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Member since 1/06 6887 total posts
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Karen
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
I see it as secular. St. Valentine is attributed to Valentine's Day, but I don't think most people thinking of February 14th as a religious.
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| Posted 12/19/06 10:42 AM |
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BriBri2u
L'amore vince sempre
Member since 5/05 9320 total posts
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Mrs. B
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
Secular - ABSOLUTELY
Christ and Santa haveTWO very different meanings - you will not hear the church make mention of Santa Claus during a christmas mass - he is irrelavant in the church...regardless of his "Saint" title
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| Posted 12/19/06 10:52 AM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
I don't understand why people try and say Santa is secular and so is a tree. these symbolize Christmas, which is celebrating the birth of Jesus.
Jews don't believe that Jesus is the messiah or the son of God.
IMO, santa and a tree and everything else that has anything to do with Christmas is Christian.
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| Posted 12/19/06 10:54 AM |
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SweetTooth
I'm a tired mommy!
Member since 12/05 20105 total posts
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Lauren
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
Well, I don't think Santa is a religous symbol persay, but I would not call him secular. Anyone who does not celebrate Christmas does not believe in Santa, Santa is used to represent the holiday.
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| Posted 12/19/06 10:59 AM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
Posted by SweetTooth
Well, I don't think Santa is a religous symbol persay, but I would not call him secular. Anyone who does not celebrate Christmas does not believe in Santa, Santa is used to represent the holiday.
But the holiday is Christmas? Christmas is the birth of Christ, no?
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| Posted 12/19/06 11:24 AM |
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Kate07
Feel better my little guy!
Member since 5/05 4476 total posts
Name:
Kate
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by SweetTooth
Well, I don't think Santa is a religous symbol persay, but I would not call him secular. Anyone who does not celebrate Christmas does not believe in Santa, Santa is used to represent the holiday.
But the holiday is Christmas? Christmas is the birth of Christ, no?
Christ is the symbol - religious and otherwise.
There are no Santas in Church or in the Nativity Scene.
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| Posted 12/19/06 11:28 AM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
Posted by Kate07
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by SweetTooth
Well, I don't think Santa is a religous symbol persay, but I would not call him secular. Anyone who does not celebrate Christmas does not believe in Santa, Santa is used to represent the holiday.
But the holiday is Christmas? Christmas is the birth of Christ, no?
Christ is the symbol - religious and otherwise.
There are no Santas in Church or in the Nativity Scene.
but people from other religions do not display trees, nativity scenes or santas in their homes. just like they don't paint Easter eggs. Although I can only speak from my experience.
it doesn't matter whether or not these things are considered secular, to me they are symbols of another faith.
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| Posted 12/19/06 11:39 AM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
I don't think Santa is secular. Santa is a symbol of Christmas- which is a religious holiday.
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| Posted 12/19/06 11:40 AM |
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Eva Luna
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Member since 8/05 4750 total posts
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God, bless & heal my DH, JenG's DH Rob & DebG
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
Santa is secular.
Santa Claus completely deviated from what St. Nick was.
I watched The History of Christmas on the History Channel and boy was I shocked at how secular Christmas is, for the most part. 
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| Posted 12/19/06 11:42 AM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
Posted by Eva Luna
I watched The History of Christmas on the History Channel and boy was I shocked at how secular Christmas is, for the most part.
not growing up in my house! when I was around 15 I brought home a 2" tree and called it a "Hanukkah Bush". My dad practically ripped it out of my hand and threw it in the garbage outside. I was SO upset at the time, but I get it now.
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| Posted 12/19/06 11:44 AM |
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dpli
Daylight savings :)
Member since 5/05 13973 total posts
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D
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
I read everyone's responses. I guess my trouble accepting that Santa is a religious symbol is that I know people who are not Christian who celebrate Christmas in the secular, giving gifts sort of way.
I consider Christmas to be a religious holiday, but I think there are many Americans simply see it as a holiday where you give gifts and that's it. I think Christmas is sort of unique in that way, that it started as a religious holiday, but for many people it just isn't. I was trying of think of another holiday to compare it to, but I just can't.
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| Posted 12/19/06 11:46 AM |
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Eva Luna
Be kind...life's hard!
Member since 8/05 4750 total posts
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God, bless & heal my DH, JenG's DH Rob & DebG
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by Eva Luna
I watched The History of Christmas on the History Channel and boy was I shocked at how secular Christmas is, for the most part.
not growing up in my house! when I was around 15 I brought home a 2" tree and called it a "Hanukkah Bush". My dad practically ripped it out of my hand and threw it in the garbage outside. I was SO upset at the time, but I get it now.
The history of the Christmas tree, for one thing, had NOTHING to do with Christmas. It was something wealthy Germans did in the winter. They would bring a tree inside for decor. It was adopted by the British when their Queen married her German cousin...and it made its way to America.
It was a pretty informational show.
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| Posted 12/19/06 11:48 AM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
Posted by Eva Luna
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by Eva Luna
I watched The History of Christmas on the History Channel and boy was I shocked at how secular Christmas is, for the most part.
not growing up in my house! when I was around 15 I brought home a 2" tree and called it a "Hanukkah Bush". My dad practically ripped it out of my hand and threw it in the garbage outside. I was SO upset at the time, but I get it now.
The history of the Christmas tree, for one thing, had NOTHING to do with Christmas. It was something wealthy Germans did in the winter. They would bring a tree inside for decor. It was adopted by the British when their Queen married her German cousin...and it made its way to America.
It was a pretty informational show.
I know about the history... I was refrring to what it means in the present day.
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| Posted 12/19/06 11:51 AM |
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Eva Luna
Be kind...life's hard!
Member since 8/05 4750 total posts
Name:
God, bless & heal my DH, JenG's DH Rob & DebG
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by Eva Luna
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by Eva Luna
I watched The History of Christmas on the History Channel and boy was I shocked at how secular Christmas is, for the most part.
not growing up in my house! when I was around 15 I brought home a 2" tree and called it a "Hanukkah Bush". My dad practically ripped it out of my hand and threw it in the garbage outside. I was SO upset at the time, but I get it now.
The history of the Christmas tree, for one thing, had NOTHING to do with Christmas. It was something wealthy Germans did in the winter. They would bring a tree inside for decor. It was adopted by the British when their Queen married her German cousin...and it made its way to America.
It was a pretty informational show.
I know about the history... I was refrring to what it means in the present day.
Well, I didn't know about it. 
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| Posted 12/19/06 11:52 AM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
I think for the most part - Catholics don't see the religious meaning as much since Santa isn't discussed in church, isn't a part of the religious teaching.
I had a conversation with someone about my faith (raised Catholic, Jewish mom, Catholic dad). I said my connection with my religion was based more on childhood (santa, easter bunny) over relgious (Jesus). She said they are one in the same to her - being from outside the Catholic faith.
I understand her point more after thinking about it. Jews do not believe in Santa Claus, nor do they celebrate Christmas.
It's interesting to see how faiths perceive the symbols differently.
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| Posted 12/19/06 11:53 AM |
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Little-J-Mommy
I'm a Big Brother
Member since 5/06 8041 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
Posted by Shellyesq
I don't think Santa is secular. Santa is a symbol of Christmas- which is a religious holiday.
I agree. I find it really interesting that so many of you girls believe santa is secular. I'd be interested to see if any of those who said secular are Jewish and if they have santa displayed in their homes?
* I'm not trying to stir the pot i'm just really curious.
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| Posted 12/19/06 11:59 AM |
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mrswask
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Member since 5/05 20229 total posts
Name:
Michal
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
I don't understand why people try and say Santa is secular and so is a tree. these symbolize Christmas, which is celebrating the birth of Jesus.
Jews don't believe that Jesus is the messiah or the son of God.
IMO, santa and a tree and everything else that has anything to do with Christmas is Christian.
Thank you! I feel the same way - although they may be synbols of a commercialized holiday - it is a Christian holiday. It is not a holiday tree, it's a Christmas tree. IMO, anyone who thinks otherwise (that's it's a holiday tree), is only kidding themselves.
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| Posted 12/19/06 12:09 PM |
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SweetTooth
I'm a tired mommy!
Member since 12/05 20105 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
Posted by Little-J-mommy-to-be
Posted by Shellyesq
I don't think Santa is secular. Santa is a symbol of Christmas- which is a religious holiday.
I agree. I find it really interesting that so many of you girls believe santa is secular. I'd be interested to see if any of those who said secular are Jewish and if they have santa displayed in their homes?
* I'm not trying to stir the pot i'm just really curious.
It is interesting. I am trying to think of something that represents Hannukah to ask the same question, and the only thing I can think of is a Dreidel.. is a dreidel secular?
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| Posted 12/19/06 12:19 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
Posted by SweetTooth
It is interesting. I am trying to think of something that represents Hannukah to ask the same question, and the only thing I can think of is a Dreidel.. is a dreidel secular?
It has hebrew letters on it, so I'm going to say no - because it is associated with Hannukah, much in the same way Santa/Christmas tree represents Christmas.
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| Posted 12/19/06 12:20 PM |
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MikesWife
Wanting...........
Member since 1/06 6887 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Spinoff: Santa Claus - secular or not?
I personally believe that associating something with a particular religion does not make it itself religious. To me Santa Claus is a mythical figure who promotes concepts of kindness, giving, hope, and faith.
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| Posted 12/19/06 12:20 PM |
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