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seaside
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
I think that the problem is that we all may be defining "considerate" differently. If you can smell the smoke, it is harming you. People who force others to breathe in their smoke are inconsiderate in my book. Being smoked on, to me, is like being spit on or hit (even if the person wasn't aiming at you), only it destroys your insides and gives you cancer.
To me, a considerate smoker is one who assumes responsibility for making sure that no one else can breathe in his or her smoke.
Also, about smoking outside, anyone who's ever gone to an outdoor bar or lounge knows that there is not much difference between the stench and bad air ruining your night/meal there and it doing so in an indoor space. It's simply oppressive.
Obviously this is directed at no one--just voicing my beliefs.
I grew up when people used to say that the smoking in the bcak of the airplane couldn't harm an infant 3 rows up. I am sick of the rationalizations that have destroyed the health and lives of so many. In my book, the only right you have to smoke is in such a way as you inflict no harm on the baby, the elderly person, the cancer survivor--whomever's near you.
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Posted 9/23/10 10:23 AM  |
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eddiesmommy
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
OK, but scientific studies have shown that once you are 6+ feet away it is NO LONGER HARMFUL. You may be able to smell it, but the air quality measures the same as someone not standing near a smoker.
I understand that its unpleasant, but you cant legislate a group of people bc something is just unpleasant.
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| Posted 9/23/10 10:25 AM |
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maybemommy10
Big Brothers to Be !
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
I don't get a choice sometimes, when I leave my building, I HAVE to walk thru smoke, when I walk to the train or stand on the platform there are smoking circles I HAVE to walk thru, when I leave a store, you get the point. Besides the health risks, I do not want to smell vile. So for those reasons, I think we need to have a band.
Also, some smokers feel it is not loitering to just throw a cig out the window of a car, or onto the street floor, again, another reason for the band.
ETA i do not get to dictate a 6ft rule when walking out of a store, buiding, train station etc.
Message edited 9/23/2010 10:38:05 AM.
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| Posted 9/23/10 10:37 AM |
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eddiesmommy
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
Posted by maybemommy10
I don't get a choice sometimes, when I leave my building, I HAVE to walk thru smoke, when I walk to the train or stand on the platform there are smoking circles I HAVE to walk thru, when I leave a store, you get the point. Besides the health risks, I do not want to smell vile. So for those reasons, I think we need to have a band.
Also, some smokers feel it is not loitering to just throw a cig out the window of a car, or onto the street floor, again, another reason for the band.
In NYC you cannot smoke outside office buidlings.
Like I side, in enclosed spaces or where people congregate in close quarters I get it.
Im also open to designated smoking areas. But to outright ban it OUTSIDE, its not the right to smoke that is being taken away that bothers me as much as how far reaching this allows the government to be.
As for unpleasantries, you cannot simply starting banning things, anything, bc people dont like the smell of it, or it makes someone uncomfortable. You cannot place a ban on things. Like I said, its part of the price you pay for living in a free nation. You have to put up with things you dont like.
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| Posted 9/23/10 10:41 AM |
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eddiesmommy
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Member since 5/09 11524 total posts
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Melissa
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
Posted by maybemommy10
ETA i do not get to dictate a 6ft rule when walking out of a store, buiding, train station etc.
The ban doesnt apply to these areas anyway so its a moot point
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| Posted 9/23/10 10:43 AM |
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maybemommy10
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
Posted by eddiesmommy
Posted by maybemommy10
I don't get a choice sometimes, when I leave my building, I HAVE to walk thru smoke, when I walk to the train or stand on the platform there are smoking circles I HAVE to walk thru, when I leave a store, you get the point. Besides the health risks, I do not want to smell vile. So for those reasons, I think we need to have a band.
Also, some smokers feel it is not loitering to just throw a cig out the window of a car, or onto the street floor, again, another reason for the band.
In NYC you cannot smoke outside office buidlings.
Like I side, in enclosed spaces or where people congregate in close quarters I get it.
People are smoking outside my office building right now (Midtown)
And yes because smoking causes health risk, it should be banned in certain places.
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| Posted 9/23/10 10:47 AM |
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MsSissy
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
Posted by maybemommy10
People are smoking outside my office building right now (Midtown)
And yes because smoking causes health risk, it should be banned in certain places.
See and this is what bothers me. They aren't allowed to do this yet the law isn't enforced.
The city could make a lot of money if they enforced this.
As much as I want this ban, I don't think it's going to make much of a difference. Will they have cops in each park enforcing this. Highly doubtful.
Posted by eddiesmommy
As for unpleasantries, you cannot simply starting banning things, anything, bc people dont like the smell of it, or it makes someone uncomfortable. You cannot place a ban on things. Like I said, its part of the price you pay for living in a free nation. You have to put up with things you dont like.
I think this ban has to do with more than just the "smell" of cigarette smoke.
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| Posted 9/23/10 10:53 AM |
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eddiesmommy
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Member since 5/09 11524 total posts
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Melissa
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
Posted by Mssissy
Posted by maybemommy10
People are smoking outside my office building right now (Midtown)
And yes because smoking causes health risk, it should be banned in certain places.
See and this is what bothers me. They aren't allowed to do this yet the law isn't enforced.
The city could make a lot of money if they enforced this.
As much as I want this ban, I don't think it's going to make much of a difference. Will they have cops in each park enforcing this. Highly doubtful.
Posted by eddiesmommy
As for unpleasantries, you cannot simply starting banning things, anything, bc people dont like the smell of it, or it makes someone uncomfortable. You cannot place a ban on things. Like I said, its part of the price you pay for living in a free nation. You have to put up with things you dont like.
I think this ban has to do with more than just the "smell" of cigarette smoke.
Yes, thank you, I know that, and I addressed it. This was in response to her saying, and Im paraphrasing "plus, I dont like the smell, or want to smell like it"
That is not a valid reason to start banning things.
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| Posted 9/23/10 10:55 AM |
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sometimesmommy
Always in my heart.....
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
People are smoking outside my office building right now (Midtown)
And yes because smoking causes health risk, it should be banned in certain places.
ITA-its the health risk issue that makes me support the ban. I do feel it should be more widespread though not just pockets of places. however I do see the point of banning it in places wihere larger number of people gather daily like parks, beaches etc
And that 6ft rule scientists have is laughable--as if people are going to pace out 6ft to be sure they are not in harms way.
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| Posted 9/23/10 10:59 AM |
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MsSissy
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
Posted by eddiesmommy
Posted by Mssissy
Posted by maybemommy10
People are smoking outside my office building right now (Midtown)
And yes because smoking causes health risk, it should be banned in certain places.
See and this is what bothers me. They aren't allowed to do this yet the law isn't enforced.
The city could make a lot of money if they enforced this.
As much as I want this ban, I don't think it's going to make much of a difference. Will they have cops in each park enforcing this. Highly doubtful.
Posted by eddiesmommy
As for unpleasantries, you cannot simply starting banning things, anything, bc people dont like the smell of it, or it makes someone uncomfortable. You cannot place a ban on things. Like I said, its part of the price you pay for living in a free nation. You have to put up with things you dont like.
I think this ban has to do with more than just the "smell" of cigarette smoke.
Yes, thank you, I know that, and I addressed it. This was in response to her saying, and Im paraphrasing "plus, I dont like the smell, or want to smell like it"
That is not a valid reason to start banning things.
I get that.
I was just trying to bring back the point of why they're trying to ban it in the 1st place and not why they shouldn't.
Message edited 9/23/2010 11:05:28 AM.
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| Posted 9/23/10 11:05 AM |
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Janice
Sweet Jessie Quinn
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
I am onboard with anything that makes it harder for a smoker.
My sister is a teacher. She has stories of asthmatic kids who come to school smelling like smoke! This is sick.
I am sure it is a hard habit to kick..but if your child is being medicated to help them breathe...then these people need help quitting.
As far as "the considerate" smoker.
No smoker is considerate. Setting yourself up for a long, slow death. I don't think family members would call that person considerate.
My heart goes out to smokers trying to quit. I pray something will click. 
If this ban helps someone along with making it click by making it more difficult to smoke, then i am all for it.
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| Posted 9/23/10 11:19 AM |
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eddiesmommy
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Melissa
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
Posted by Janice
I am onboard with anything that makes it harder for a smoker.
My sister is a teacher. She has stories of asthmatic kids who come to school smelling like smoke! This is sick.
I am sure it is a hard habit to kick..but if your child is being medicated to help them breathe...then these people need help quitting.
As far as "the considerate" smoker.
No smoker is considerate. Setting yourself up for a long, slow death. I don't think family members would call that person considerate.
My heart goes out to smokers trying to quit. I pray something will click.
If this ban helps someone along with making it click by making it more difficult to smoke, then i am all for it.
this was just out of line and off topic.
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| Posted 9/23/10 11:25 AM |
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JennP
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Jenn
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
I have never touched a cigarette in my life. I do believe in the importance of civil liberties, and therefore would be inclined not to support a law that stated that - for example - people could not smoke in their own homes.
However, I am 100% in favor here, as it is a public health issue and these are places where families and children gather.
I have thought about "smoking sections" at beaches and parks in the past, but there is a logistical problem because then every park would have to have two sets of facilities; i.e. - who gets the nice swingset or the beautiful water fountain?
Also, I support the law because I am sure limitations on smoking in public places have helped encourage people to quit. My mom quit 1.5 years ago after smoking for over 45 YEARS ( Mom!) and she said it was getting too expensive and she was tired of standing outside in the rain and cold. The limitations are best for society in general. JMO.
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| Posted 9/23/10 11:28 AM |
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Janice
Sweet Jessie Quinn
Member since 5/05 27567 total posts
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Janice
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
Posted by eddiesmommy
this was just out of line and off topic.
 thank you officer.
and yeah, not really.
If a smoker enjoys hanging out at parks with their children and this makes it more difficult for them to enjoy their time there, then they may us it as incentive to quit.
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| Posted 9/23/10 11:30 AM |
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Janice
Sweet Jessie Quinn
Member since 5/05 27567 total posts
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Janice
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
Posted by JennP
Also, I support the law because I am sure limitations on smoking in public places have helped encourage people to quit. My mom quit 1.5 years ago after smoking for over 45 YEARS ( Mom!) and she said it was getting too expensive and she was tired of standing outside in the rain and cold. The limitations are best for society in general. JMO.
that is awesome!!
my mother has a similiar story, she quit after years. she was a chaperone on my brother's field trip into the city for a show and dinner. She hated being the only parent to get up and go out into the cold to smoke.
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| Posted 9/23/10 11:33 AM |
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eddiesmommy
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Melissa
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
Posted by Janice
Posted by eddiesmommy
this was just out of line and off topic.
thank you officer.
and yeah, not really.
If a smoker enjoys hanging out at parks with their children and this makes it more difficult for them to enjoy their time there, then they may us it as incentive to quit.
again, unnecessary.
yes, it was. When discussing people being considerate we were discussing it in the context of the distance in which you are of a non-smoker. You can drop the sarcasm.
Message edited 9/23/2010 11:47:06 AM.
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| Posted 9/23/10 11:36 AM |
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eddiesmommy
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Melissa
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
Posted by JennP
I have thought about "smoking sections" at beaches and parks in the past, but there is a logistical problem because then every park would have to have two sets of facilities; i.e. - who gets the nice swingset or the beautiful water fountain?
.
As for hte logisitics, its very do-able. You dont need separate playgrounds of facilities for each to enjoy. Smokers would have to leave where they are and go over to a designated smoking area like they do in amusement parks for instance.
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| Posted 9/23/10 11:38 AM |
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maybemommy10
Big Brothers to Be !
Member since 2/10 3868 total posts
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
Posted by Janice
Posted by JennP
Also, I support the law because I am sure limitations on smoking in public places have helped encourage people to quit. My mom quit 1.5 years ago after smoking for over 45 YEARS ( Mom!) and she said it was getting too expensive and she was tired of standing outside in the rain and cold. The limitations are best for society in general. JMO.
that is awesome!!
my mother has a similiar story, she quit after years. she was a chaperone on my brother's field trip into the city for a show and dinner. She hated being the only parent to get up and go out into the cold to smoke.
Same here, many moons ago when smokers started to be considered 2nd class citizens, is when i quit too. After awhile it just wasn't "fun" anymore and it became more of a burden than anything. It really helped me quit.
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| Posted 9/23/10 11:38 AM |
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seaside
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Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
This debate is absurd. Is anyone really expected to be able to stay 6 feet away from an indefinite number of people at all times?
1) I do not buy into the 6 feet rule--like it's magic. Numerous doctors that I know and that I have seen in the media say that if you can smell it, it has already harmed you.
2) There is no reasonable way to expect someone to dodge innumerable people and keep outside of 6 feet of their poison in any event.
I dare anyone to go to a crowded park, beach, or outdoor area and successfully avoid inhaling others' smoke.
Law works in such a way that often, bans exist because of a balance of public good versus harm. So, yes, the number of people who are harmed from smoke on the street do factor in when it comes to a ban. I refer again to the way people used to allowed to smoke inside offices and on planes. It doesn't mean it was ever ok, and it doesn't mean that the government would be overreaching if it woke up and pushed the bans further.
Imagine if citizens were allowed to arm themselves with waterguns full of carcinogens that tests showed couldn't give someone cancer unless they hit from within 6 feet and those with and without the guns were warned to be "careful" and "condierate." Would the government or people of any city permit that situation to exist? Ever?
Message edited 9/23/2010 12:16:51 PM.
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| Posted 9/23/10 12:03 PM |
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MrsKS
Thank You St. Gerard.....
Member since 12/09 8306 total posts
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Kerri
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
what, how did you get that from that sentence?
I said we arent against it bc we want the right to stand within 2 feet of non-smokers and blow smoke in their face?
The sentence you wrote is the exact opposite of what I said?
Im not sure why you are being so snarky anyway.
I am being a tad snarky... but mainly becuase I felt you were being snarky first...and when someone is that way with me... I tend to Ricochet it back to them. what you wrote came across as VERY snarky... AND you put words that I didn't write in my mouth.. then went on a long unnecessary rant. What type of response do you expect from that?
your sentence...
it doesn't matter... i'm sure you meant something else.
Message edited 9/23/2010 3:11:38 PM.
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| Posted 9/23/10 3:05 PM |
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eddiesmommy
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Member since 5/09 11524 total posts
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Melissa
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
Posted by MrsKS
what, how did you get that from that sentence?
I said we arent against it bc we want the right to stand within 2 feet of non-smokers and blow smoke in their face?
The sentence you wrote is the exact opposite of what I said?
Im not sure why you are being so snarky anyway.
I am being a tad snarky... but mainly becuase I felt you were being snarky first...and when someone is that way with me... I tend to Ricochet it back to them. what you wrote came across as VERY snarky... AND you put words that I didn't write in my mouth.. then went on a long unnecessary rant. What type of response do you expect from that?
your sentence...
Normal, considerate smokers, are not against this bc they want to have the right to stand within two feet of you and blow cigarette smoke in your face.
so a normal considerate smoker who is not against the law... that translates to
a normal consider smoker is for the law (if you aren't against something then you are for it...)
and then add on the rest of your sentence... they want to have the right to stand within two feet of you and blow cigarette smoke in your face.
that's how it comes across to me. i don't know how else to read that sentence.
anyway, it doesn't matter... i'm sure you meant something else.
noooo, I didnt say that anyone was FOR the law, i said they werent against it BECAUSE of .......(but there can and are OTHER reasons they are against it).
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| Posted 9/23/10 3:12 PM |
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MrsA714
Baby #2 is here!
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
Posted by eddiesmommy
If a smoker or anyone comes over and stands within two feet of you in a giant open air park, thats just weird and creepy anyway.
True. But as someone who lives and works in NYC, a LOT of our parks are not giant, open air parks. I know the local park I take DD to is not and in cases like mine, this ban isn't such a bad idea.
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| Posted 9/23/10 3:21 PM |
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MrsKS
Thank You St. Gerard.....
Member since 12/09 8306 total posts
Name:
Kerri
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
Posted by eddiesmommy
Posted by MrsKS
what, how did you get that from that sentence?
I said we arent against it bc we want the right to stand within 2 feet of non-smokers and blow smoke in their face?
The sentence you wrote is the exact opposite of what I said?
Im not sure why you are being so snarky anyway.
I am being a tad snarky... but mainly becuase I felt you were being snarky first...and when someone is that way with me... I tend to Ricochet it back to them. what you wrote came across as VERY snarky... AND you put words that I didn't write in my mouth.. then went on a long unnecessary rant. What type of response do you expect from that?
your sentence...
Normal, considerate smokers, are not against this bc they want to have the right to stand within two feet of you and blow cigarette smoke in your face.
so a normal considerate smoker who is not against the law... that translates to
a normal consider smoker is for the law (if you aren't against something then you are for it...)
and then add on the rest of your sentence... they want to have the right to stand within two feet of you and blow cigarette smoke in your face.
that's how it comes across to me. i don't know how else to read that sentence.
anyway, it doesn't matter... i'm sure you meant something else.
noooo, I didnt say that anyone was FOR the law, i said they werent against it BECAUSE of .......(but there can and are OTHER reasons they are against it).
I see how you meant it. It's one of those sentences that could go either way.... but I understand what you meant by it.
Honestly.... I only came back like that becuase of what you wrote to me. I'm never nasty without reason. And I don't see how my one sentence said all that stuff you thought. You don't know where I was coming from or what I even meant by it. I'll still stand by the fact that I think a smoker should be considerate and be the one to move out of the way of others when they chose to light up. We all know though, things that should be aren't always what is.
I don't have anything against smokers. But law's that may deter smokers from smoking are fine with me... because bottom line is.. they are unhealthy and can cause unnecessary and painful terrible deaths. Yes, you can make the decision to still smoke and that's fine... but anything which may deter the act is good in my book. And if it's to benefit those who don't smoke... then that's another plus.
And that's all aside from the fact that some people don't care at all about the people around them. Heck, some people don't even care enough about their own health or see it as "unhealthy" so why would they care about anyone else?
I grew up with my mother being a smoker. She smoked since she was a teenager and still does to this day. She smokes virginia slims menthol lights 120s and I've known her type of cigarettes since as long as I can remember. She smokes A LOT... to the point that everything would smell of it. Clothes, you name it. It's a smell that lingers in things. She doesn't see anything wrong with it and has zero intention of ever quitting. So the way I see it... if they can pass any sort of law's that might have an end result of her (or anyone else) either smoking less or not at all.... then so be it. I can't possibly be upset about it.
I can't even tell you how thrilled I was when they passed the no smoking in bars law!! To go to a bar and not come home smelling like I was rolled up in a cigarette is really nice.
Message edited 9/23/2010 4:19:28 PM.
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| Posted 9/23/10 4:17 PM |
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monkeybride
My Everything
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
Posted by jerseypanda
As a non smoker, I can't say I don't like this. It will just make my life more pleasant. I absolutely hate having to walk through people's plumes of smoke or stand around next to it.
I'm sure all the smokers in NY are not going to be too happy about it though.
I agree. I hate smoking. I truly think it is one of the most disgusting habits and I hate to be anywhere near it or have my children anywhere near it.
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| Posted 9/23/10 4:21 PM |
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rosalie
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rosalie
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Re: spinoff to smoking (sorry if this was already posted) New York City Law Would Extend Smoking Ban to Public Parks and Beaches
having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a pool. 
in all seriousness, can't they add smoking booths or smoking rooms in certain areas like they do in some airports? the area as a whole is non-smoking but smokers can go into this enclosed space to smoke, and it possibly includes somethign to absorb some of the smoke.
i hate smoking as much as anyone, and love that bars/restaurants are now smoke-free, but there has to be some kind of compromise that allows smokers to smoke (albeit inconveniently) but also protects others
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| Posted 9/23/10 4:37 PM |
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