State Standardized testing in school

I have a question. I actually don’t know the answer so I thought I would ask.

State Standardized testing is a big thing. I remember, when I was a kid, we had a few days that we did the "bubble" tests. I don’t ever remember it being a big deal. We just took the tests for 3 days.

I know that its a BIG issue now. I know NY changed how they teach (is it core curriculum now??). I know parents and teachers don’t like it.

And I don’t mean to make a BLANKET statement that ALL teachers and ALL parents don’t like it.

Anyway.

I was talking to my SIL yesterday about my 10 yo nephew getting tested this week in NJ. She said she didn’t mind it all.

So. My question is this.

1. The "test" has no bearing on the child. They won’t get a grade, nor heald back, nor anything from these tests. Correct? It holds nothing as far as academic ANYTHING for the child.

2. Is there any caveat? Like if the school sees the kid doesn’t know any math, they will point this out for special help/classes to help the child?

3. Teachers teach to the test. My question, honestly, is why is this bad? The state says "You need to teach the child XYZ according to NY state standards. Then, the state wants to know if you are teaching the child what they say you should be teaching.

Explain why this is bad??

4. Why do the teachers do a ton of practice tests?

5. WHY on earth would the kids get stressed about it? It has no bearing, whatsoever, on their grades or progress. So why would a kid be stressed about taking this test?

I really appreciate thoughtful answers. I know this is a hot topic. I know NOTHING about it and wanted to know more.

Re: State Standardized testing in school

I'm not a teacher nor do I have children (yet).

However, I do hear A LOT of complaints from all my friends who are teachers. Like you said, they teach for the test. The good thing about this is that you cover a lot of information that the child should know. The key word here is SHOULD. If a kid, or the class doesn't understand a topic, unfortunately the teacher has to just move on. It's more about getting through all the material then actually making sure the kid understands something.

The biggest frustration that I hear, is having all of these state tests in conjunction with "No child left behind act." I have teachers who teach H.S. math and complain that half of their students can't do long division or know their multiplication tables by heart.

I think the kids get stressed out because the teachers are stressed out due to the pressure that's placed on them too. Also, regardless of it "counts' or not, kids are still going to want to do their best and not let their parents and teachers down.

This is all I know and I too am confused with all of this.

Message edited 5/7/2013 12:33:46 PM.

State Standardized testing in school

I don't know much about it myself, but the biggest thing I've heard from parents/teachers is that the curriculum is now entirely focusing on these tests that there's no more creative/independent work. ELA and math is being taught to the detriment of science and social studies. I don't know much beyond that, what the pros/cons are, or even what my options are as a parent when the time comes, but I do think that sacrificing such enrichment in the curriculum just to prepare for a myriad of tests is such a disadavantage for kids.

Re: State Standardized testing in school

I don't stress over the tests (have one child who took them this year and another one that took them years ago) and I don't have my kids stress over them.

The reason parents are upset is that the majority of work the kids are doing is for these tests (english and math) and don't focus on other things. THIS I totally understand.

I think people will complain about anything though so if it is not this, it will or would be something else.

Re: State Standardized testing in school

Re: State Standardized testing in school

1. The "test" has no bearing on the child. They won’t get a grade, nor heald back, nor anything from these tests. Correct? It holds nothing as far as academic ANYTHING for the child.

The parents get their scores on the tests & the kids do share them amongst themselves but no, they won't get left back.


2. Is there any caveat? Like if the school sees the kid doesn’t know any math, they will point this out for special help/classes to help the child?

My school has been always very good at identifying kids that are struggling in reading, math, etc & getting them the help they need. So for my school district, I'd say there wouldn't be a difference. For other districts, I'm not sure.

3. Teachers teach to the test. My question, honestly, is why is this bad? The state says "You need to teach the child XYZ according to NY state standards. Then, the state wants to know if you are teaching the child what they say you should be teaching.

Explain why this is bad??

If they taught the curriculum, practices excercises, different methods (ie there are many different ways to come with an answer to addition, multiplication, etc), I think it would be better for the kids. Instead they teach the test ad nauseum. To me, what you're teaching is how to pass a test. Not the actual curriculum they should be learning.

4. Why do the teachers do a ton of practice tests?

Because they are being evaluated based on the test results.


5. WHY on earth would the kids get stressed about it? It has no bearing, whatsoever, on their grades or progress. So why would a kid be stressed about taking this test?

Why do they get stressed about taking a test? Because there is an enormous amount of prepping. Some of them know their teachers get evaluated on it. When my son was in 4th grade, he told me he was going to do poorly on the tests because he loved his teacher so much. He thought if he scored 100% (or a 4 on the ELAs) that they would fire her because the kids didn't need to learn anymore

My friend's daughter was told by her teacher that if she brought a book into the test, she would be labeled as a cheater. That NYS would label the kids for the rest of their school as a cheater & that they would not be able to get their driver's license. I'm sure it was said in jest? but her daughter is very literal & was in tears when her mom told her she couldn't leave her backpack at home.

It's just a highly stressful situation. I think it's created by the administration & the standards they imposed.

------------------
For me the main issue is the amount of time they spend on reviewing the tests & the fact that they evaluate the teachers/districts based on the scores. My kids do pretty well on the tests but there are other kids who don't - and that has nothing to do with the teacher's abilities. One year I had a kid that was coming down sick in the midst of taking the tests. The grades definitely showed it. Should the teacher be evaluated on that? What about the kid whose parents work late & don't check the homework when they're home? What about the kids who pretty much raises themselves while their screwed up parents doesn't care for them? There are so many factors as to what makes a great teacher - and truly very little of it has to do with test scores in my book.

The other issue which I haven't read up on enough to really render judgment is the speculation between the Common Core Standards tests & the company (Pearson) that sold their review packets to NYS. Some of the questions on the review packet were on the ELA test. This link was posted on the Teacher's board & I thought it has some excellent point: http://nycpublicschoolparents.blogspot.com/2013/04/looking-for-feedback-on-this-years-ela.html.

Also I know for the 6th graders, the tests were too long. A huge portion of the class didn't finish their test.

One thing I took from this is when you have an amazing teacher, it is even more vital to be that teacher's champion. Write letters to the superintendent, the principal & whoever else needs to know about the teacher. Encourage the other parents to do the same. Because I'll be damned if I would let the teacher that goes above & beyond be evaluated by just a number.

Message edited 5/7/2013 4:37:06 PM.

Re: State Standardized testing in school

Here are some of the reasons against testing: From unitedoptout.com

acts about punitive high stakes testing in public education:

•Is not scientifically-based and fails to follow the U.S. Government’s own data on learning

•Fosters test driven education that is not meeting the individual/intellectual needs of students

•Presents a racial and economic bias that is beneficial to white middle/upper class students and detrimental to second language students, impoverished students, and students of color

• Is in opposition to the corrective action in gaps in opportunity and resources sanctioned by the Fiscal Fairness Act

•Supports complicity of corporate interests rather than democracy based on public concerns

•Fosters coercion over cooperation with regards to federal funding for public education

•Promotes a culture of lying, cheating, and exploitation within the school community

•Has used the achievement gap to foster a “de facto” segregation that has resulted in separate and unequal education for minorities

Forget the facts that everyone else presented. These tests are proven to be racially and economically biased. The teachers in lower income schools are at a disadvantage. Since when is a score on a test the best measure of a child's growth? I work in special ed and that statement is such nonsense. My kids can't pass a test to save their lives and they learn. Trust me.. they learn. Evaluating a teacher's effectiveness based on a test is asinine.

Re: State Standardized testing in school

Re: State Standardized testing in school

Also, this paragraph cites tons of research for those who think it just teachers complaining. (For the record, I am not a classroom teacher. I am an SLP who is sick of seeing what is going on in education.)

There are well-known negative consequences of standardized testing on education, such as the “narrowing of the curriculum” due to “teaching to the test”. When there is public pressure to improve test results, schools and teachers are more likely to emphasize, in their instruction, the material covered by the test (Shepard, 1991; Madaus, 1991; Herman & Golan, 1992). Standardized tests heavily emphasize multiple-choice questioning (The National Center for Fair & Open Testing (NCFT), 1997). As a result, rote memorizing, “cramming” of concepts and test-taking strategies have become part of the daily instruction (Madaus, 1991). This type of instruction or “teaching to the tests” causes students to gain the “most elementary knowledge and skills and less of the deep understanding of even a few topics” (Stake, 1991 p. 246). This is demonstrated in the inability of test scores to generalize or transfer to other indicators of achievement. For example, when a new testing program is brought into a state, scores tend to plummet in the initial years of testing since students have not been prepared for that exact test (Bracey, 2000). Consequently, test scores that reflect higher-order thinking have been steadily declining (Darling-Hammond, 1991; 1994). In fact, the rote learning that was involved in “teaching-to-the-test” in the 1970s has been cited as one of the reasons that U.S. students have ranked low in international achievement tests (McKnight et. al., 1987).

Re: State Standardized testing in school

Re: State Standardized testing in school

Posted by nrthshgrl


1. The "test" has no bearing on the child. They won’t get a grade, nor heald back, nor anything from these tests. Correct? It holds nothing as far as academic ANYTHING for the child.

The parents get their scores on the tests & the kids do share them amongst themselves but no, they won't get left back.


2. Is there any caveat? Like if the school sees the kid doesn’t know any math, they will point this out for special help/classes to help the child?

My school has been always very good at identifying kids that are struggling in reading, math, etc & getting them the help they need. So for my school district, I'd say there wouldn't be a difference. For other districts, I'm not sure.

3. Teachers teach to the test. My question, honestly, is why is this bad? The state says "You need to teach the child XYZ according to NY state standards. Then, the state wants to know if you are teaching the child what they say you should be teaching.

Explain why this is bad??

If they taught the curriculum, practices excercises, different methods (ie there are many different ways to come with an answer to addition, multiplication, etc), I think it would be better for the kids. Instead they teach the test ad nauseum. To me, what you're teaching is how to pass a test. Not the actual curriculum they should be learning.

4. Why do the teachers do a ton of practice tests?

Because they are being evaluated based on the test results.


5. WHY on earth would the kids get stressed about it? It has no bearing, whatsoever, on their grades or progress. So why would a kid be stressed about taking this test?

Why do they get stressed about taking a test? Because there is an enormous amount of prepping. Some of them know their teachers get evaluated on it. When my son was in 4th grade, he told me he was going to do poorly on the tests because he loved his teacher so much. He thought if he scored 100% (or a 4 on the ELAs) that they would fire her because the kids didn't need to learn anymore

My friend's daughter was told by her teacher that if she brought a book into the test, she would be labeled as a cheater. That NYS would label the kids for the rest of their school as a cheater & that they would not be able to get their driver's license. I'm sure it was said in jest? but her daughter is very literal & was in tears when her mom told her she couldn't leave her backpack at home.

It's just a highly stressful situation. I think it's created by the administration & the standards they imposed.

------------------
For me the main issue is the amount of time they spend on reviewing the tests & the fact that they evaluate the teachers/districts based on the scores. My kids do pretty well on the tests but there are other kids who don't - and that has nothing to do with the teacher's abilities. One year I had a kid that was coming down sick in the midst of taking the tests. The grades definitely showed it. Should the teacher be evaluated on that? What about the kid whose parents work late & don't check the homework when they're home? What about the kids who pretty much raises themselves while their screwed up parents doesn't care for them? There are so many factors as to what makes a great teacher - and truly very little of it has to do with test scores in my book.

The other issue which I haven't read up on enough to really render judgment is their is speculation between the Common Core Standards tests & the company (Pearson) that sold their review packets to NYS. Some of the questions on the review packet were on the ELA test. This link was posted on the Teacher's board & I thought it has some excellent point: http://nycpublicschoolparents.blogspot.com/2013/04/looking-for-feedback-on-this-years-ela.html.

Also I know for the 6th graders, the tests were too long. A huge portion of the class didn't finish their test.

One thing I took from this is when you have an amazing teacher, it is even more vital to be that teacher's champion. Write letters to the superintendent, the principal & whoever else needs to know about the teacher. Encourage the other parents to do the same. Because I'll be damned if I would let the teacher that goes above & beyond be evaluated by just a number.

Message edited 5/7/2013 2:44:28 PM.

State Standardized testing in school

Until last year I was a city teacher and if the students didn't pass the test they could be held over and/or forced to attend summer school. I wonder if it's up to the district to decide.

I also don't like that information gathered from these tests is being sold to for-profit companies.

I quit for a lot of reasons, but one of them did have to do with the role test scores would play in teacher evals. Even though it's not fully implemented in the city I know Bloomberg wants it, and I don't feel it's fair. I had kids who were absent 60, 70, 80 times, late regularly, unprepared, with uninvolved parents. Some years my kids did very well, some years they didn't. But I wasn't going to wait around and worry about it.

Re: State Standardized testing in school

Re: State Standardized testing in school

Why do they get stressed about taking a test? Because there is an enormous amount of prepping. Some of them know their teachers get evaluated on it. When my son was in 4th grade, he told me he was going to do poorly on the tests because he loved his teacher so much. He thought if he scored 100% (or a 4 on the ELAs) that they would fire her because the kids didn't need to learn anymore


I think A LOT has to do with the parents too as so many of my friends made a HUGE deal over it and I truly think it caused the kids more stress.
I spoke to my child and while I don't have to worry about his grades and how he tests, he said he wasn't stressed at all and wasn't even worrying about it.

State Standardized testing in school

Thank you for all the answers. Makes one stop and think.

Let me ask a question, just to throw this out there. Again, JUST for the sake that I dont know.

When someone buys a house, and wants to move to a school district, is it THESE test numbers that "grade" the school?

Re: State Standardized testing in school

State Standardized testing in school

I don't have a child in the system yet, but I have friends who teach at area colleges. They have told me that the quality of the students they are getting is so poor now, that it's laughable. They are amazed that these kids have passed from grade to grade - math is terrible, english & grammar in particular is atrocious....they all wish the state would go back to how it used to be.

Re: State Standardized testing in school

I teach 1st grade and cannot express how thankful I am that I do not need to administer these tests. There IS major pressure surrounding these tests. Teachers are told they cannot sit down for the full 70 minutes. Many of the children have anxiety over them and it is awful and goes completely against what good teaching is about. Children have zero ability to show their creativity or show what they know in a variety of ways. Cookie cutter.

Also, the test scores are now part of how teachers are judged. The types of students, parent involvement etc. are not taken into consideration. The fact is that there are students who simply are poor test takers. Also the company Pearson(which isn't even based in America) seems to be taking over the world! They are all about the MONEY and not about the kids.

Message edited 5/7/2013 5:10:56 PM.

Re: State Standardized testing in school

Re: State Standardized testing in school

Re: State Standardized testing in school

Re: State Standardized testing in school

Re: State Standardized testing in school

All of my answers are based on being a NYC teacher.





1. The "test" has no bearing on the child. They won’t get a grade, nor heald back, nor anything from these tests. Correct? It holds nothing as far as academic ANYTHING for the child.

In NYC the child WILL be held back.

2. Is there any caveat? Like if the school sees the kid doesn’t know any math, they will point this out for special help/classes to help the child?


There placement is not necessarily based on the state exams because most NYC middle schools are not tracked.

3. Teachers teach to the test. My question, honestly, is why is this bad? The state says "You need to teach the child XYZ according to NY state standards. Then, the state wants to know if you are teaching the child what they say you should be teaching.

Explain why this is bad??

Because it prevents real teaching from happening. For example, there is a ton of non fiction on state exams therefore ELA teachers can not/do not get to teach literature :(

4. Why do the teachers do a ton of practice tests?

I don't. I refuse to. It's non sense.

5. WHY on earth would the kids get stressed about it? It has no bearing, whatsoever, on their grades or progress. So why would a kid be stressed about taking this test?

It does make a difference for NYC students and the teachers are also held accountable and our rating is based on these scores. Therefore some of the stress we feel is misplaced on the children. I try my best to avoid this but honestly I am sure they "feel" it.