| Posted By |
Message |
| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 |
soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3
Member since 4/15 3635 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by MyBabyG
Posted by soontobemommyof2
Posted by ali120206
Posted by LittleDiva
Posted by JennP
Posted by Mill188
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by Mill188
Posted by LI12345
The vaccine prevents you from getting sick, you could still transmit the virus to others. The same rules for masking, distancing, etc. still apply even if you have the vaccine.
Except that the recommendations have changed. Per the CDC you do not need to quarantine after exposure if you were vaccinated within 3 months. Then why would you need to quarantine after travel - where there is no definitive exposure?
I'm not saying you don't need to wear masks, socially distance, etc., but if you are in contact with a known case of COVID and were vaccinated within 90 days, you don't have to stay locked in your home so logically, why would you need to quarantine after travel as long as it is within 3 months (as of now)?
I'm not planning on getting the vaccine any time soon, so this doesn't affect me one way or the other, but logically the travel restrictions don't make a lot of sense right now.
The other logic flow in the travel quarantine is that I am probably more likely to be exposed right here in NY in my daily life. Why do they act like every other state you travel to is a hot bed of unchecked Covid cases? I can travel into NYC and ride the subways all day long but I cant' go sit on a beach in a private rental home in another state?
Exactly!!!
I'm not sure if you're talking about a specific state or whatever and I missed it but several states have no mask mandates and are a shit show.
I have a lot of family and friends all over Florida and it varies by county and city. There are several parts where no masks are required and even where they are their idiot governor made it so it cannot really be enforced anyway. I have a friend who is so disgusted by the morons she is surrounded by who refuse to wear a mask that she would like to move back here but has been priced out.
I don't agree with everything Cuomo does but he is 100% correct to protect NYers by requiring testing/quarantining for travelers from states that aren't taking this seriously.
I don’t think a one size fits all makes any sense. I said it on another thread. I can go to Florida and Disney with my family and I have heard how strict they are with masks and following regulations. I have to quarantine (which extended my time off from work is not possible so I can’t travel) but I can rent a house in Pennsylvania with four other families and not wear a mask and nearly as much....and not quarantine.
If you have symptoms stay home. If you test on day one when you are back from any trip move on with your life. I have more of a chance of catching covid in my daily regular life in New York than if I go to Disney.
I definitely agree with this! I said over the summer, I could go to Kalahari without quarantining (and still can) but I couldn't go visit my friend who was isolated at her lakehouse in Ohio without a quarantine (and still can't do that either). What is more risky? My kids have gotten sick after trips to Kalahari when it wasn't a pandemic.
Agree. I know many families that purposely go to Pennsylvania so they don’t have to quarantine when they get back to NY. What makes states like PA, NJ, CT, etc so special that u don’t have to quarantine compared to others states? It makes zero sense no matter how u slice it.
The last I read is because people work in NJ, CT and PA on a daily basis so that’s why they are exempt from the testing/quarantining
If you travel to those states for work then fine, you can't quarantine. But if you are traveling for vacation or pleasure why should it be any different than Florida?
Exactly
|
Posted 2/16/21 9:56 PM  |
| |
|
Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource |
Blazesyth
*yawn*
Member since 5/05 8129 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
FYI, you are supposed to have a negative test or quarantine for 10 days if you go to PA.
The tri-state 'reciprocation' is only NJ and CT.
PA travel rules
|
| Posted 2/17/21 12:37 PM |
| |
|
ali120206
2 Boys
Member since 7/06 17792 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Posted by Blazesyth
FYI, you are supposed to have a negative test or quarantine for 10 days if you go to PA.
The tri-state 'reciprocation' is only NJ and CT.
PA travel rules
Yes but you don't have to quarantine upon return.
You also can go to MA and VT without having to quarantine upon return (but to go to VT, you have to have a negative test and quarantine 7 days before going).
|
| Posted 2/17/21 12:42 PM |
| |
|
LittleDiva
LIF Adult
Member since 9/11 1284 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Posted by Blazesyth
FYI, you are supposed to have a negative test or quarantine for 10 days if you go to PA.
The tri-state 'reciprocation' is only NJ and CT.
PA travel rules
I’ve got several friends in PA now and not a single one had to show proof of a test. Some had to sign waivers saying they took tests and others were never even asked. Not saying I agree or disagree.
What I’m curious about is whether my friends who went to Florida or other places via airplane have any sort of follow up with testing on day 3. I’m curious as I am thinking of booking Florida in April for spring break and the quarantine upon return is what’s holding me back.
|
| Posted 2/17/21 1:27 PM |
| |
|
NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Posted by LittleDiva
Posted by Blazesyth
FYI, you are supposed to have a negative test or quarantine for 10 days if you go to PA.
The tri-state 'reciprocation' is only NJ and CT.
PA travel rules
I’ve got several friends in PA now and not a single one had to show proof of a test. Some had to sign waivers saying they took tests and others were never even asked. Not saying I agree or disagree.
What I’m curious about is whether my friends who went to Florida or other places via airplane have any sort of follow up with testing on day 3. I’m curious as I am thinking of booking Florida in April for spring break and the quarantine upon return is what’s holding me back.
My co worker has been to Florida 3 times in the past 2 months and I can tell you nobody followed up with them. They filled out the paperwork on return to JFK and nobody followed up or asked any questions.
It would be too monumental a task to keep up with something like that. He said the flights home to NY were packed and airports crazy. Too many people to keep track of
|
| Posted 2/17/21 1:40 PM |
| |
|
ali120206
2 Boys
Member since 7/06 17792 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by LittleDiva
Posted by Blazesyth
FYI, you are supposed to have a negative test or quarantine for 10 days if you go to PA.
The tri-state 'reciprocation' is only NJ and CT.
PA travel rules
I’ve got several friends in PA now and not a single one had to show proof of a test. Some had to sign waivers saying they took tests and others were never even asked. Not saying I agree or disagree.
What I’m curious about is whether my friends who went to Florida or other places via airplane have any sort of follow up with testing on day 3. I’m curious as I am thinking of booking Florida in April for spring break and the quarantine upon return is what’s holding me back.
My co worker has been to Florida 3 times in the past 2 months and I can tell you nobody followed up with them. They filled out the paperwork on return to JFK and nobody followed up or asked any questions.
It would be too monumental a task to keep up with something like that. He said the flights home to NY were packed and airports crazy. Too many people to keep track of
Yes - I haven't heard of anyone either but, I would still be prepared to quarantine. Especially if your kids are in school. I don't feel it's right to skip quarantine and send them back (and the school will know when they ask your child what they did for spring break).
|
| Posted 2/17/21 2:04 PM |
| |
|
NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Posted by ali120206
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by LittleDiva
Posted by Blazesyth
FYI, you are supposed to have a negative test or quarantine for 10 days if you go to PA.
The tri-state 'reciprocation' is only NJ and CT.
PA travel rules
I’ve got several friends in PA now and not a single one had to show proof of a test. Some had to sign waivers saying they took tests and others were never even asked. Not saying I agree or disagree.
What I’m curious about is whether my friends who went to Florida or other places via airplane have any sort of follow up with testing on day 3. I’m curious as I am thinking of booking Florida in April for spring break and the quarantine upon return is what’s holding me back.
My co worker has been to Florida 3 times in the past 2 months and I can tell you nobody followed up with them. They filled out the paperwork on return to JFK and nobody followed up or asked any questions.
It would be too monumental a task to keep up with something like that. He said the flights home to NY were packed and airports crazy. Too many people to keep track of
Yes - I haven't heard of anyone either but, I would still be prepared to quarantine. Especially if your kids are in school. I don't feel it's right to skip quarantine and send them back (and the school will know when they ask your child what they did for spring break).
Yes. I won't go because I don't want my daughter missing school to quarantine. This coworker is childless. If I was childless I'd have been on 4 trips by now. Quarantine for me is no biggie as I work at home fir now anyway
|
| Posted 2/17/21 2:15 PM |
| |
|
Summer123
LIF Toddler
Member since 5/19 436 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
I've flown to Florida twice in the past few months to see my family. I filled out paperwork both times on arrival back. The first time, nobody called at all. The second time, somebody called 16 days after my trip home to tell me I am out of quarantine. Uh..okay. I did not do the testing to opt out of quarantine, as there were no rapid tests near where I was visiting. It also doesn't make sense to me that when you get off the plane, they funnel you to a very very small area to fill out paperwork and EVERYBODY from flight is in that small area on top of one another. Just that alone I found very dangerous considering how careful I was during my trip. Doesn't make sense.
Message edited 2/17/2021 3:24:24 PM.
|
| Posted 2/17/21 3:22 PM |
| |
|
MrsM-6-7-08
<3
Member since 8/06 4249 total posts
Name:
Nicole
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
I was away on vacation for about 4 weeks in January in the Caribbean. 3 different islands, felt extremely safe. We tested in each island before traveling to the next one. In our last island they came to the hotel to test us had results and paperwork with an hour and flew home next day. We did fill out the questionnaire. They texted us to follow up but that was it. We have tested every other day since returning all negative.
We have our own testing kits.
|
| Posted 2/17/21 3:45 PM |
| |
|
ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
Name:
That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Posted by Summer123
I've flown to Florida twice in the past few months to see my family. I filled out paperwork both times on arrival back. The first time, nobody called at all. The second time, somebody called 16 days after my trip home to tell me I am out of quarantine. Uh..okay. I did not do the testing to opt out of quarantine, as there were no rapid tests near where I was visiting. It also doesn't make sense to me that when you get off the plane, they funnel you to a very very small area to fill out paperwork and EVERYBODY from flight is in that small area on top of one another. Just that alone I found very dangerous considering how careful I was during my trip. Doesn't make sense.
Those people were not prepared. Just fill out the form online from your phone and take a screen shot of the green checkmark. Show the green check mark to the national guard person when you get off near the big funnel of people and walk past all of them. Easy. Done.
|
| Posted 2/17/21 3:56 PM |
| |
|
Summer123
LIF Toddler
Member since 5/19 436 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Posted by ave1024
Posted by Summer123
I've flown to Florida twice in the past few months to see my family. I filled out paperwork both times on arrival back. The first time, nobody called at all. The second time, somebody called 16 days after my trip home to tell me I am out of quarantine. Uh..okay. I did not do the testing to opt out of quarantine, as there were no rapid tests near where I was visiting. It also doesn't make sense to me that when you get off the plane, they funnel you to a very very small area to fill out paperwork and EVERYBODY from flight is in that small area on top of one another. Just that alone I found very dangerous considering how careful I was during my trip. Doesn't make sense.
Those people were not prepared. Just fill out the form online from your phone and take a screen shot of the green checkmark. Show the green check mark to the national guard person when you get off near the big funnel of people and walk past all of them. Easy. Done.
Some people filled it out beforehand, but it is still too much people walking and having to get in a small area at once. Everyone is distanced and then when you get to the specific area of national guard, it is a bottleneck. There is nowhere to go. You still have to wait your turn to show what you filled out regardless of if it is on paper or a screenshot. There is no organization of a line to show, just people standing everywhere. I found this to be the most unsafe part of my whole trip both times coming back.
|
| Posted 2/17/21 4:29 PM |
| |
|
seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Posted by ave1024
Posted by Summer123
I've flown to Florida twice in the past few months to see my family. I filled out paperwork both times on arrival back. The first time, nobody called at all. The second time, somebody called 16 days after my trip home to tell me I am out of quarantine. Uh..okay. I did not do the testing to opt out of quarantine, as there were no rapid tests near where I was visiting. It also doesn't make sense to me that when you get off the plane, they funnel you to a very very small area to fill out paperwork and EVERYBODY from flight is in that small area on top of one another. Just that alone I found very dangerous considering how careful I was during my trip. Doesn't make sense.
Those people were not prepared. Just fill out the form online from your phone and take a screen shot of the green checkmark. Show the green check mark to the national guard person when you get off near the big funnel of people and walk past all of them. Easy. Done.
I just learned something super valuable. One reason that I have been hesitant to travel is because of unforeseeable chaos, like what Summer123 described. That helps. I had no idea. Thanks!
|
| Posted 2/17/21 4:31 PM |
| |
|
Summer123
LIF Toddler
Member since 5/19 436 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Just to add, this is at Islip airport. I don't know how it is at the other airports.
Message edited 2/17/2021 5:04:47 PM.
|
| Posted 2/17/21 5:04 PM |
| |
|
NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Posted by Summer123
Posted by ave1024
Posted by Summer123
I've flown to Florida twice in the past few months to see my family. I filled out paperwork both times on arrival back. The first time, nobody called at all. The second time, somebody called 16 days after my trip home to tell me I am out of quarantine. Uh..okay. I did not do the testing to opt out of quarantine, as there were no rapid tests near where I was visiting. It also doesn't make sense to me that when you get off the plane, they funnel you to a very very small area to fill out paperwork and EVERYBODY from flight is in that small area on top of one another. Just that alone I found very dangerous considering how careful I was during my trip. Doesn't make sense.
Those people were not prepared. Just fill out the form online from your phone and take a screen shot of the green checkmark. Show the green check mark to the national guard person when you get off near the big funnel of people and walk past all of them. Easy. Done.
Some people filled it out beforehand, but it is still too much people walking and having to get in a small area at once. Everyone is distanced and then when you get to the specific area of national guard, it is a bottleneck. There is nowhere to go. You still have to wait your turn to show what you filled out regardless of if it is on paper or a screenshot. There is no organization of a line to show, just people standing everywhere. I found this to be the most unsafe part of my whole trip both times coming back.
Pretty Ironic huh. And it's not like they enforce it afterwards so.....
|
| Posted 2/17/21 5:29 PM |
| |
|
Summer123
LIF Toddler
Member since 5/19 436 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by Summer123
Posted by ave1024
Posted by Summer123
I've flown to Florida twice in the past few months to see my family. I filled out paperwork both times on arrival back. The first time, nobody called at all. The second time, somebody called 16 days after my trip home to tell me I am out of quarantine. Uh..okay. I did not do the testing to opt out of quarantine, as there were no rapid tests near where I was visiting. It also doesn't make sense to me that when you get off the plane, they funnel you to a very very small area to fill out paperwork and EVERYBODY from flight is in that small area on top of one another. Just that alone I found very dangerous considering how careful I was during my trip. Doesn't make sense.
Those people were not prepared. Just fill out the form online from your phone and take a screen shot of the green checkmark. Show the green check mark to the national guard person when you get off near the big funnel of people and walk past all of them. Easy. Done.
Some people filled it out beforehand, but it is still too much people walking and having to get in a small area at once. Everyone is distanced and then when you get to the specific area of national guard, it is a bottleneck. There is nowhere to go. You still have to wait your turn to show what you filled out regardless of if it is on paper or a screenshot. There is no organization of a line to show, just people standing everywhere. I found this to be the most unsafe part of my whole trip both times coming back.
Pretty Ironic huh. And it's not like they enforce it afterwards so.....
I know.
|
| Posted 2/17/21 5:50 PM |
| |
|
soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3
Member since 4/15 3635 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Posted by blu6385
Posted by NervousNell
Can you imagine having to get the vaccine every 3 months? We'd never get out of this.
It’s insanity o have been on the fence getting vaccinated when the time comes at this point I will not be if it’s only 3 months protection then I would have to quarantine again. Plus I feel like o have natural immunity since I had it already so really no need to get vaccinated!!
It’s out of control at this point. I am over it all!!
U might find this article insteresting regarding natural immunity. I’m hopeful more positive findings will come with future studies.
|
| Posted 2/19/21 9:06 PM |
| |
|
soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3
Member since 4/15 3635 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
U can believe what u want about vaccines, it is ur right. But to say or suggest that antibodies created due to a vaccine is way better than antibodies created naturally by the body is mind blowing! Geez I wonder how humans have managed to survive thousands, and thousands, and thousands of years in this planet with such faulty defenses and such imperfect and defective immune systems! 
*This is a general comment based on a couple of comments I’ve read on this thread.
|
| Posted 2/19/21 9:23 PM |
| |
|
ali120206
2 Boys
Member since 7/06 17792 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Posted by soontobemommyof2
U can believe what u want about vaccines, it is ur right. But to say or suggest that antibodies created due to a vaccine is way better than antibodies created naturally by the body is mind blowing! Geez I wonder how humans have managed to survive thousands, and thousands, and thousands of years in this planet with such faulty defenses and such imperfect and defective immune systems!
*This is a general comment based on a couple of comments I’ve read on this thread.
I agree. My older son had chicken pox as an infant and the doctor even said he had better immunity.
It’s a PIA registering for things though since it’s a red flag not having the vaccine - and sometimes the exceptions don’t print out 
|
| Posted 2/19/21 11:38 PM |
| |
|
Naturalmama
Love my boys!!
Member since 1/12 3548 total posts
Name:
Christine
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Posted by soontobemommyof2
U can believe what u want about vaccines, it is ur right. But to say or suggest that antibodies created due to a vaccine is way better than antibodies created naturally by the body is mind blowing! Geez I wonder how humans have managed to survive thousands, and thousands, and thousands of years in this planet with such faulty defenses and such imperfect and defective immune systems!
*This is a general comment based on a couple of comments I’ve read on this thread.
Every virus is different. For some viruses, Mumps for example, natural immunity is lifelong, where vaccine immunity may require a booster later in life.
The pneumonia shot offers much stronger protection than natural infection.
In Moderna clinical trials, antibodies from those who received the vaccine were much higher than those who recovered from COVID.
The human body is amazing, but it is not perfect. Clearly the immune system can fail- which explains the massive hospitalizations, the near collapse of the UK's hospital system, and the 400,000 plus US deaths in just 11 months.
Message edited 2/19/2021 11:45:45 PM.
|
| Posted 2/19/21 11:43 PM |
| |
|
Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3073 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
A friend of mine flew into Islip yesterday. Said there were more National Guardsmen than passengers. She filled everything out on her phone but still said the bottleneck was crazy.
|
| Posted 2/20/21 2:57 PM |
| |
|
ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
Name:
That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Posted by Summer123
Posted by ave1024
Posted by Summer123
I've flown to Florida twice in the past few months to see my family. I filled out paperwork both times on arrival back. The first time, nobody called at all. The second time, somebody called 16 days after my trip home to tell me I am out of quarantine. Uh..okay. I did not do the testing to opt out of quarantine, as there were no rapid tests near where I was visiting. It also doesn't make sense to me that when you get off the plane, they funnel you to a very very small area to fill out paperwork and EVERYBODY from flight is in that small area on top of one another. Just that alone I found very dangerous considering how careful I was during my trip. Doesn't make sense.
Those people were not prepared. Just fill out the form online from your phone and take a screen shot of the green checkmark. Show the green check mark to the national guard person when you get off near the big funnel of people and walk past all of them. Easy. Done.
Some people filled it out beforehand, but it is still too much people walking and having to get in a small area at once. Everyone is distanced and then when you get to the specific area of national guard, it is a bottleneck. There is nowhere to go. You still have to wait your turn to show what you filled out regardless of if it is on paper or a screenshot. There is no organization of a line to show, just people standing everywhere. I found this to be the most unsafe part of my whole trip both times coming back.
I have flown multiple times in both JFK and Islip and I have never had to wait anywhere near the national guard area. I show the green check mark on my phone to the first guardsman who then direct most everybody to the congregation area. He then waves me past all the groups and I am on my way. Real easy.
|
| Posted 2/20/21 3:25 PM |
| |
|
soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3
Member since 4/15 3635 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Posted by Naturalmama
Posted by soontobemommyof2
U can believe what u want about vaccines, it is ur right. But to say or suggest that antibodies created due to a vaccine is way better than antibodies created naturally by the body is mind blowing! Geez I wonder how humans have managed to survive thousands, and thousands, and thousands of years in this planet with such faulty defenses and such imperfect and defective immune systems!
*This is a general comment based on a couple of comments I’ve read on this thread.
Every virus is different. For some viruses, Mumps for example, natural immunity is lifelong, where vaccine immunity may require a booster later in life.
The pneumonia shot offers much stronger protection than natural infection.
In Moderna clinical trials, antibodies from those who received the vaccine were much higher than those who recovered from COVID.
The human body is amazing, but it is not perfect. Clearly the immune system can fail- which explains the massive hospitalizations, the near collapse of the UK's hospital system, and the 400,000 plus US deaths in just 11 months.
Interestingly enough, those trials were shorter than how they usually are, and not to mention they still left several questions unanswered. Their studies are still ongoing for them, they’re still collecting data and yes, even from the population that’s already receiving the vaccine. That’s why they cannot come out and say the vaccine ‘will’ be effective for 1 year, or it ‘will protect’ u from getting infected, or it ‘will stop’ transmission, among other unknowns.
Yes, all viruses are different and that’s how the body adapts to them, we have not (and will never in this lifetime) experienced them all, not even a fraction of all the ones that exist. So naturally when a ‘new’ virus crosses pathways with humans, the body will need time to deal with it, it’ll need time to learn from it so it can know how to best fight it, and then adapt to its existence cause viruses don’t disappear, or are eradicated unlike what the common believe is. I’m not pointing out whether or not this vaccine has the capability to induce the body to create antibodies (which btw it’s not a black and white topic all on its own), but I’m pointing out the resilience in the human race, the ability to fight, adapt, and survive despite the challenges we might face and to say that it’s defective and therefore inferior to man-made products is pretty sad. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that the general advancement in medicine is simply all bad. I’m saying we just can’t underestimate what our bodies can do and what they’ve doing since we first came to existence, I mean it is 2021 and the human race has not vanished.
Message edited 2/20/2021 5:11:28 PM.
|
| Posted 2/20/21 5:08 PM |
| |
|
Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3073 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Cuomo finally decided to follow the CDC recommendations about travel.
Domestic travelers who have been fully vaccinated within 90 days no longer need to quarantine or test out of quarantine after arrival in New York.
|
| Posted 3/3/21 12:44 PM |
| |
|
|
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Posted by Mill188
Cuomo finally decided to follow the CDC recommendations about travel.
Domestic travelers who have been fully vaccinated within 90 days no longer need to quarantine or test out of quarantine after arrival in New York.
Yep allowing more things to take the heat off of him. 
|
| Posted 3/3/21 12:54 PM |
| |
|
NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
|
Re: Vaccine and travel
Posted by Valentinesbaby73
Posted by Mill188
Cuomo finally decided to follow the CDC recommendations about travel.
Domestic travelers who have been fully vaccinated within 90 days no longer need to quarantine or test out of quarantine after arrival in New York.
Yep allowing more things to take the heat off of him.
Lol. If they keep up all the investigations into him we'll be as open as Texas! 
Message edited 3/3/2021 1:03:26 PM.
|
| Posted 3/3/21 12:57 PM |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 |
