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Ophelia
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
Posted by ave1024
Posted by Ophelia
the problem is, they are everywhere!
We live in a capitalistic society. They are everywhere because they have a sound business model.
If their business model wasn't so sound, their aggressive expansion would see a downturn and they would be forced to close some shops (see Starbucks).
WalMart provides a TON of jobs to people. I also see a lot of disabled and elderly people working at WalMart. I think that's fantastic.
Now me personally, I am not a fan of shopping AT WalMart because of the animals that seem to shop there (ex: Valley Stream BF). I hate going in that store. But they do have good prices on stuff and I have no issues with the company themselves.
I don't care how "sound" their business model is.
I think the "business models" of this country have truly made us lose our way.
they are popular b/c we as americans look only at dollar signs. they KNOW we will go for the lowest bidder.
if starbucks started undercutting the competition, they'd probably start doing well again too.
FOR ME, PERSONALLY, it's not about just the economics or the financial system.
their "soundness" doesn't mean these things are not exploitive.
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Posted 3/31/09 3:41 PM  |
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CookiePuss
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
Posted by ave1024
Posted by Ophelia
the problem is, they are everywhere!
We live in a capitalistic society. They are everywhere because they have a sound business model.
If their business model wasn't so sound, their aggressive expansion would see a downturn and they would be forced to close some shops (see Starbucks).
WalMart provides a TON of jobs to people. I also see a lot of disabled and elderly people working at WalMart. I think that's fantastic.
Now me personally, I am not a fan of shopping AT WalMart because of the animals that seem to shop there (ex: Valley Stream BF). I hate going in that store. But they do have good prices on stuff and I have no issues with the company themselves.
my issue with Wal-Mart's business model is how it drives the mom & pop shops out of business. Not every place is like metro NY. Lots of areas of this country are rural. Wal-Mart comes in and drastically cuts the costs of their products to the point of which the smaller mom & pop shops can't compete and stay in business. Mom & pops shops close up and Wal-Mart jacks their prices back up. The community is stuck because there isn't much in terms of retail and the alternative is another 30 miles away. That is what I don't like about their business model. They are a monopoly in lots of areas of this country.
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| Posted 3/31/09 3:46 PM |
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seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
OK, but for argument's sake, what's the difference between a "greedy" consumer who shops at Walmart to stretch a buck and gets called out on LIF & a "smart" shopper who posts on the fashion board that hse got a great deal on something by shopping clearance, overstock, stacking coupons, etc.? That "smart" shopper got goods in a way that probably lost some producer $ and helped put a sales clerk at a place with more overhead out of a job.
I fault neither shopper, but in people's opinions, where do cosumers' rights and responsibilities start and end? I'm honestly curious as to what people think....
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| Posted 3/31/09 3:49 PM |
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Mimacat
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Heather
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
Posted by melbalalala
Posted by CrankyPants
I see what you are saying, but though that may be a fundamental law of economics, it isn't quite that simple and doesn't take into account the human factor. In some areas there is not much choice for jobs. Many people need a $7 per hour job at Walmart as opposed to no job at all and I don't think it means the employment practices are acceptable. Rather, it's job or no job and people who need to feed a family will put up with a lot to do so, it doesn't make it right that they have to.
As a side note, I don't think that Target is much better, it's just that Walmart's issues are more widely known. Shopping at Target vs. Walmart isn't really doing a whole lot for any of the issues discussed in this thread.
Listen CrankyPants....   If that is the case, why don't they move somewhere that has better paying jobs?
I don't mean to come off as heartless, but it is in a person's best interest to get a job that gives them the highest wages/best conditions possible. If that means moving their family, then that's what they have to do. If they choose to stay where they are and take a job that they loathe and get paid $7/hour for, that's the tradeoff that they made.
That's why Katy Peter left Carvel.
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| Posted 3/31/09 3:49 PM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
Posted by Ophelia
if starbucks started undercutting the competition, they'd probably start doing well again too.
The "Starbucks Name" has driven a lot of mom and pop coffee shops out of business.
A company doesn't need to undercut to drive mom and pop businesses out of business.
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| Posted 3/31/09 3:50 PM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
Name:
That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
Posted by shamrock124
my issue with Wal-Mart's business model is how it drives the mom & pop shops out of business. Not every place is like metro NY. Lots of areas of this country are rural. Wal-Mart comes in and drastically cuts the costs of their products to the point of which the smaller mom & pop shops can't compete and stay in business. Mom & pops shops close up and Wal-Mart jacks their prices back up. The community is stuck because there isn't much in terms of retail and the alternative is another 30 miles away. That is what I don't like about their business model. They are a monopoly in lots of areas of this country.
Ok... and? This is a capitalistic society. Always has been.
If a company has the resources to improve their bottom line... do you really think they are going to say "Well lets not go into that town because there are too many mom and pop shops there".
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| Posted 3/31/09 3:53 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
Posted by seaside
OK, but for argument's sake, what's the difference between a "greedy" consumer who shops at Walmart to stretch a buck and gets called out on LIF & a "smart" shopper who posts on the fashion board that hse got a great deal on something by shopping clearance, overstock, stacking coupons, etc.? That "smart" shopper got goods in a way that probably lost some producer $ and helped put a sales clerk at a place with more overhead out of a job.
I fault neither shopper, but in people's opinions, where do cosumers' rights and responsibilities start and end? I'm honestly curious as to what people think....
firstly, I don't think anyone is "calling" anyone else out.
as to your question, it is very broad. generally speaking, a store prices at a certain point to recoup a certain amount of earnings. even marking it down 25 or 50% in some cases STILL makes a decent profit. and pays it's employees a decent wage and decent benefits.
It's not a matter of who is "better". its simple cause and effect.
in terms of responsibilities, I think our system is so messed up. We buy too much, and therefore expect everything that we buy to be cheap enough so we can keep buying more.
it's no one's fault...it's our culture. but we can go a long way just by recognizing it, I think.
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| Posted 3/31/09 3:56 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
Posted by ave1024
Posted by Ophelia
if starbucks started undercutting the competition, they'd probably start doing well again too.
A company doesn't need to undercut to drive mom and pop businesses out of business.
I didn't say that.
and ftr, I hate Starbucks. mostly cuz their coffee sucks.
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| Posted 3/31/09 3:57 PM |
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CookiePuss
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
Posted by ave1024
Posted by shamrock124
my issue with Wal-Mart's business model is how it drives the mom & pop shops out of business. Not every place is like metro NY. Lots of areas of this country are rural. Wal-Mart comes in and drastically cuts the costs of their products to the point of which the smaller mom & pop shops can't compete and stay in business. Mom & pops shops close up and Wal-Mart jacks their prices back up. The community is stuck because there isn't much in terms of retail and the alternative is another 30 miles away. That is what I don't like about their business model. They are a monopoly in lots of areas of this country.
Ok... and? This is a capitalistic society. Always has been.
If a company has the resources to improve their bottom line... do you really think they are going to say "Well lets not go into that town because there are too many mom and pop shops there".
I think there are ethical ways of driving up the bottom line and unethical ways. I think Wal-Mart employs some unethical ways. What they do to small communities and their small economies is predatory and I think violates some of the anittrust laws that are suppose to limit cartels and monopolies.
They use their size to drive the Mom & Pop shops out of business. They will actually hold down prices until their competition is driven out of business. By the sheer definition of a mom & pop, they can't compete with that.
Message edited 3/31/2009 4:00:57 PM.
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| Posted 3/31/09 3:58 PM |
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lbelle821
Arghhhhh
Member since 2/06 5285 total posts
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Lisa
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
I struggle with the Walmart thing.
Because quite honestly, Walmart is one of our largest vendors and is contributing greatly to my company's survival in "these economic times". So they actually keep me employed indirectly.
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| Posted 3/31/09 3:59 PM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
Posted by Ophelia
as to your question, it is very broad. generally speaking, a store prices at a certain point to recoup a certain amount of earnings. even marking it down 25 or 50% in some cases STILL makes a decent profit. and pays it's employees a decent wage and decent benefits.
If you are so upset by WalMart cutting their prices so low, then blame the companies that WalMart sells.
Like an above poster said... if WalMart can afford to sell Cheerios at $1.88, why not blame General Mills for ALLOWING WalMart to sell it that low.
If General Mills wanted to look out for the mom and pops, they can simply set a minimum price that WalMart MUST sell their stuff at.
There are plenty of companies out there that set minimum prices on their items to entice more competition between retailers. I believe Bose is one company that sets price minimums on their items.
General Mills doesn't do this because they, like WalMart, understand we live in a capitalistic society... despite what our current President wants us to believe.
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| Posted 3/31/09 4:02 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
Posted by ave1024
If you are so upset by WalMart cutting their prices so low, then blame the companies that WalMart sells.
Like an above poster said... if WalMart can afford to sell Cheerios at $1.88, why not blame General Mills for ALLOWING WalMart to sell it that low.
If General Mills wanted to look out for the mom and pops, they can simply set a minimum price that WalMart MUST sell their stuff at.
There are plenty of companies out there that set minimum prices on their items to entice more competition between retailers. I believe Bose is one company that sets price minimums on their items.
General Mills doesn't do this because they, like WalMart, understand we live in a capitalistic society... despite what our current President wants us to believe.
GM can't do that. b/c Walmart would just pull ALL of their products and effectively run them out of business.
does Walmart sell Bose? I didnt' think they did.
and, what i do DO, since i don't like them so much, is I don't shop there.
I understand that people, especially in these times, NEED to save that money and that Walmart is a literal lifesaver for them. I don't fault them in any way. but I don't NEED to shop there. so I don't.
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| Posted 3/31/09 4:06 PM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
Name:
That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
Posted by Ophelia
does Walmart sell Bose? I didnt' think they did.
ZING!
Because WalMart can't price it the way they would like! Because Bose doesn't let them!
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| Posted 3/31/09 4:19 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
Posted by ave1024
Posted by Ophelia
does Walmart sell Bose? I didnt' think they did.
ZING!
Because WalMart can't price it the way they would like! Because Bose doesn't let them!
b/c they don't have to. b/c they are not going after the same market.
there is a HUGE difference between a store not selling your wave radio system vs. not selling all 23 variations of cereals you make that people are buying every day.
zing 
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| Posted 3/31/09 4:26 PM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
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That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
Posted by Ophelia
b/c they don't have to. b/c they are not going after the same market.
there is a HUGE difference between a store not selling your wave radio system vs. not selling all 23 variations of cereals you make that people are buying every day.
zing
Of course there is and you totally missed the point.
If the manufacturers cared about the mom and pop shops, they would set price minimums on their items which would eliminate what WalMart is doing.
But the manufacturers are out for the $$$$ just as much as WalMart is.
No matter how you want to spin it, we are in a capitalistic society and this is the way things work.
And you most definitely have the right to not shop there. Maybe if more people agreed with your beliefs, WalMart would be forced to close some stores like Starbucks had to.
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| Posted 3/31/09 4:45 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
Posted by ave1024
Posted by Ophelia
b/c they don't have to. b/c they are not going after the same market.
there is a HUGE difference between a store not selling your wave radio system vs. not selling all 23 variations of cereals you make that people are buying every day.
zing
Of course there is and you totally missed the point.
If the manufacturers cared about the mom and pop shops, they would set price minimums on their items which would eliminate what WalMart is doing.
But the manufacturers are out for the $$$$ just as much as WalMart is.
No matter how you want to spin it, we are in a capitalistic society and this is the way things work.
And you most definitely have the right to not shop there. Maybe if more people agreed with your beliefs, WalMart would be forced to close some stores like Starbucks had to.
there is a differences between missing a point and not necessarily agreeing with it. I am not interested in placing blame.
and I don't buy the 'this is our society and how things work'. there are plenty of things that have changed over the years b/c people have recognized a wrong and have don't something about it. using "capitalism" as a blanket excuse doesn't cut it, at least for me.
and, going round and round, where Walmart is strongest, people simply CAN'T stop shopping there. they have eradicated the competition. so it's the only place to go. and, the cycle begins again.
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| Posted 3/31/09 4:59 PM |
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smdl
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me
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
I shop at Walmart for what I want. I don't go often.
They are cheaper. They have the diapers I need to buy without driving 6-7 miles to go to Baby R Us. Target does not carry them.
I do a lot of online shopping with them for toys and they have free shipping for site to store.
It's not the cleanest. They don't have the most "upscale" customers. I go in there. Get my business done and leave.
They have a bad rep with their employment issues. Forcing people to clock out before they finish their shift among some of the issues.
But they are not the only one. I am sure Target customers have their share of complaints like MANY retail stores. Retail stores have a bad reputation in general.
Also they do hire senior citizens. Where else do you find a store willing to pay an 85 year old man to "greet" you when you come in? Or someone with a disability to put a "sticker" on your return merchandise?
I lived in the country down South. Wal-mart may have put some some businesses out of business but a heck lot of happy customers. Wal-mart is THE place to go. Not much else to do! So NOW customers have A LOT of choices. Yes, it's all at Wal-mart but there is a bigger selection and it's a lot cheaper than the mom and pop businesses. For some people it DOES matter whether something cost $15.99 vs $22.99 somewhere else. Especially when you live in a single wide trailer (I am not putting down people here. Just stating that some people do not have the means to shop somewhere else).
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| Posted 3/31/09 5:02 PM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
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That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
Posted by Ophelia
there is a differences between missing a point and not necessarily agreeing with it. I am not interested in placing blame.
and I don't buy the 'this is our society and how things work'. there are plenty of things that have changed over the years b/c people have recognized a wrong and have don't something about it. using "capitalism" as a blanket excuse doesn't cut it, at least for me.
and, going round and round, where Walmart is strongest, people simply CAN'T stop shopping there. they have eradicated the competition. so it's the only place to go. and, the cycle begins again.
But it seems like you are trying to place the blame... on Walmart. That is what I don't agree with.
They eradicated the competition because they have a sound business model. Like I said... how can you EXPECT them to not 100% care about their bottom line... ESPECIALLY in this economy?
There are plenty of other companies that could have came in to those rural towns and did the same thing WalMart did. Target could of. But they couldn't because they couldn't afford to overextend themselves. Not because they didn't want to.
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| Posted 3/31/09 5:06 PM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
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That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
Posted by smdl
Also they do hire senior citizens. Where else do you find a store willing to pay an 85 year old man to "greet" you when you come in? Or someone with a disability to put a "sticker" on your return merchandise?
I lived in the country down South. Wal-mart may have put some some businesses out of business but a heck lot of happy customers. Wal-mart is THE place to go. Not much else to do! So NOW customers have A LOT of choices. Yes, it's all at Wal-mart but there is a bigger selection and it's a lot cheaper than the mom and pop businesses. For some people it DOES matter whether something cost $15.99 vs $22.99 somewhere else. Especially when you live in a single wide trailer (I am not putting down people here. Just stating that some people do not have the means to shop somewhere else).
And like I said above, they hire plenty of people with disabilities too. How many companies out there are so eager to hire somebody in a wheelchair? Or a teenager with Downs?
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| Posted 3/31/09 5:08 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
Posted by ave1024
Posted by Ophelia
there is a differences between missing a point and not necessarily agreeing with it. I am not interested in placing blame.
and I don't buy the 'this is our society and how things work'. there are plenty of things that have changed over the years b/c people have recognized a wrong and have don't something about it. using "capitalism" as a blanket excuse doesn't cut it, at least for me.
and, going round and round, where Walmart is strongest, people simply CAN'T stop shopping there. they have eradicated the competition. so it's the only place to go. and, the cycle begins again.
But it seems like you are trying to place the blame... on Walmart. That is what I don't agree with.
They eradicated the competition because they have a sound business model. Like I said... how can you EXPECT them to not 100% care about their bottom line... ESPECIALLY in this economy?
There are plenty of other companies that could have came in to those rural towns and did the same thing WalMart did. Target could of. But they couldn't because they couldn't afford to overextend themselves. Not because they didn't want to.
what am I "blaming' them for? i am deriding their practices, which I don't like...that is all.
the true blame lies with our economic culture...but that is for another debate.
as for Target, I don't really shop their either. I TRY to avoid chains in favor or mom and pop places. I buy my sandwiches at the deli down the street even though Quiznos is literally inside my building, go to independent restaurants instead of chains. buy as much furniture I can from antique places. etc etc.
everyone makes choices. and everyone has their reasons for doing so. and that is fine.
I don't think people who shop in Walmart are bad. or evil. or stupid. I don't think anything of them really. *I* have issues with it. but i also eat meat and wear leather shoes..and I am sure there are people out there that have issues with that.
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| Posted 3/31/09 5:18 PM |
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seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by seaside
OK, but for argument's sake, what's the difference between a "greedy" consumer who shops at Walmart to stretch a buck and gets called out on LIF & a "smart" shopper who posts on the fashion board that hse got a great deal on something by shopping clearance, overstock, stacking coupons, etc.? That "smart" shopper got goods in a way that probably lost some producer $ and helped put a sales clerk at a place with more overhead out of a job.
I fault neither shopper, but in people's opinions, where do cosumers' rights and responsibilities start and end? I'm honestly curious as to what people think....
firstly, I don't think anyone is "calling" anyone else out.
as to your question, it is very broad. generally speaking, a store prices at a certain point to recoup a certain amount of earnings. even marking it down 25 or 50% in some cases STILL makes a decent profit. and pays it's employees a decent wage and decent benefits.
It's not a matter of who is "better". its simple cause and effect.
in terms of responsibilities, I think our system is so messed up. We buy too much, and therefore expect everything that we buy to be cheap enough so we can keep buying more.
it's no one's fault...it's our culture. but we can go a long way just by recognizing it, I think.
When you say this: "it's pure greed. on the part of the corporation and the consumer. trying to make and save those dimes, no matter who is on the bottom living on pennies in the ****. ", you're calling out the Walmart consumer. In my opinion, anyway.
I also never mentioned the word "better" because I don't see a difference between--or a problem with--the two consumers I discussed.
I remain interested in this discussion and others' views on social responsibility and theory versus practice.
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| Posted 3/31/09 7:51 PM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
I believe age discrimination and discrimination of handicapped persons is mandated by Federal law and they are not allowed to discriminate. I also believe that the federal government provided a stipid to the store for every disabled employee they hire. Wal-Mart isn't doing it out of the goodness of their heart. They are legislated to do such.
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| Posted 3/31/09 8:03 PM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
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That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
Posted by shamrock124
I believe age discrimination and discrimination of handicapped persons is mandated by Federal law and they are not allowed to discriminate. I also believe that the federal government provided a stipid to the store for every disabled employee they hire. Wal-Mart isn't doing it out of the goodness of their heart. They are legislated to do such.
Then how come we don't see this commonplace in all these other companies?
I am not an HR person, but I believe the laws say your can't discriminate against them due to age and such. But this isn't like affirmative action where you have to have a certain class of people on your staff and what not. They aren't forced to HIRE these people. All they have to do is put them through the interview process fair and square like every other candidate.
They can simply say the person wasn't qualified and not hire them. Walmart could very easily not hire these people if they didn't want to.
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| Posted 3/31/09 8:08 PM |
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Chatham-Chick
*********************
Member since 5/05 10311 total posts
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
I so wish my DH wasn't in China so he could put his .02 in this thread...but he's busy dealing with Sam's Clubs right now. (aka Wal-Mart ) I think he meets with Wal-Mart tomorrow.
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| Posted 3/31/09 8:27 PM |
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nrthshgrl
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Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
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Re: Walmart Spinoff
I know many people that do business with Walmart (my company included)- and a ton more people that shop there. My cousin got her updo for her wedding there for $25 in Georgia. I on the other hand was horrified to buy water from them while I waited for her to get done.
The one 89 year old man greeting you doesn't mean they aren't hiring people at below minimum wage or don't fire that 89 year old man when he questions why he is getting paid less than the younger kid & wonders outloud if they were union would they have better sick pay.
I don't fault them for doing business - I fault them for how the do business. It is disgusting to see how their employment practices are.
Personally I don't care if I have to pay more for cereal, tires & whatever else they sell there. I choose not to patronize a store that is known for deplorable practices. Losing my business isn't going to put them out of business - for me it's the principle.
:stepping down from soapbox:
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| Posted 3/31/09 8:43 PM |
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