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JP826
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Me!! All about ME!
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
Posted by SIBride06
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
the tree has as much to do with christ as the bunny and eggs have to do with easter 
So when you see a green tree with lights and ornaments, what do you associate it with?
No one is saying that Christ came out of the womb holding a tree.
ETS: You are right that this is an adapted tradition, but being so, I grew up associating it with such. 28 years after I was born, all of a sudden I should not assume it is a Christmas tree anymore? It is now considered a "holiday tree"? Give me a break.
i agree - it should be called a christmas tree - and my point is i think getting offended over its presence and changing the name is ridiculous
Well... Then I guess I'm rediculous. 
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Posted 11/14/07 10:11 AM  |
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QuoteTheRaven424
22 Months?!!!!
Member since 5/05 13659 total posts
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And If That Isn't A True Blue Miracle
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
See, to me and to most of the world, Christmas is a season or a state of mind, associated with trees, lights, ornaments, Santa and elves. These are all pagan symbols - and have nothing to do with the birth of Christ.
Why they took these things and associated them with the birth of Christ, I don't know.
But, to get offended and want to change the name is silly, as it has more to do with the season and nothing to do with the birth of Christ.
To me, there are more important things to be worried about than what they call a tree.
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| Posted 11/14/07 10:12 AM |
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QuoteTheRaven424
22 Months?!!!!
Member since 5/05 13659 total posts
Name:
And If That Isn't A True Blue Miracle
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
Posted by SIBride06
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
Posted by SIBride06
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
the tree has as much to do with christ as the bunny and eggs have to do with easter
So when you see a green tree with lights and ornaments, what do you associate it with?
No one is saying that Christ came out of the womb holding a tree.
ETS: You are right that this is an adapted tradition, but being so, I grew up associating it with such. 28 years after I was born, all of a sudden I should not assume it is a Christmas tree anymore? It is now considered a "holiday tree"? Give me a break.
i agree - it should be called a christmas tree - and my point is i think getting offended over its presence and changing the name is ridiculous
Well... Then I guess I'm rediculous.
whatever floats your boat - IMO, I think it's silly and petty and we can agree to disagree
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| Posted 11/14/07 10:12 AM |
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J9-13
We're gonna be big sisters!
Member since 6/06 14887 total posts
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J9
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
See, to me and to most of the world, Christmas is a season or a state of mind, associated with trees, lights, ornaments, Santa and elves. These are all pagan symbols - and have nothing to do with the birth of Christ.
Why they took these things and associated them with the birth of Christ, I don't know.
But, to get offended and want to change the name is silly, as it has more to do with the season and nothing to do with the birth of Christ.
To me, there are more important things to be worried about than what they call a tree.
ITA with what you are saying. These are all symbols that are associated with Christmas. I really don't get offended easily and I really don't care what "they" want to call it. It is still a Christmas Tree to me 
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| Posted 11/14/07 10:17 AM |
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Chica
Cuteness!
Member since 10/06 3013 total posts
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Erica
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
I think it's a Christmas Tree. That's what it's intended to be.
Now, what we have in our apt. will be a holiday tree b/c we have both Chanukah and Chistmas ornaments (I'm jewish, DH is catholic) and it's intended to represent both of our holidays. However, what's in Lincoln Center is hands down a Christmas Tree, as it should be.
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| Posted 11/14/07 10:21 AM |
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HappyWife
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Member since 12/06 484 total posts
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
It's a cultural thing too. In Turkey, people commonly decorate trees for the holiday/New Year (definitely not Christmas)...does that men they're wrong in calling it a holiday tree? Nope. It's just that's their cultural association.
Here, the association with decoated trees is with Christmas. But it doesn't really have anything to do with the birth of Christ. It's just how we celebrate it.
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| Posted 11/14/07 10:23 AM |
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june262004
But I love the Snow!
Member since 5/05 15379 total posts
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Kristin
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
Posted by Chica
I think it's a Christmas Tree. That's what it's intended to be.
Now, what we have in our apt. will be a holiday tree b/c we have both Chanukah and Chistmas ornaments (I'm jewish, DH is catholic) and it's intended to represent both of our holidays. However, what's in Lincoln Center is hands down a Christmas Tree, as it should be.
thats fine what you call it in your house. I just have a question about it Is the menorah a holiday candle holder. I mean why can't you husband have a christmas tree and you a menorah?
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| Posted 11/14/07 10:23 AM |
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skew
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 6794 total posts
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
it's absurd that we are forced to change tradition so not to offend. i am so sick of the PC revolution.
Message edited 11/14/2007 10:25:09 AM.
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| Posted 11/14/07 10:24 AM |
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BunnyBaby
Loving Motherhood!!!
Member since 11/07 1238 total posts
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Audrina
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
See, to me and to most of the world, Christmas is a season or a state of mind, associated with trees, lights, ornaments, Santa and elves. These are all pagan symbols - and have nothing to do with the birth of Christ.
Why they took these things and associated them with the birth of Christ, I don't know.
But, to get offended and want to change the name is silly, as it has more to do with the season and nothing to do with the birth of Christ.
To me, there are more important things to be worried about than what they call a tree.
Yes. I believe there are more important things to be worried about as well, but what I dont understand is why all of a sudden is this an issue in the first place? It's like calling a menorah a candlestick, It's wrong. It's offensive (to many people) and it disenfranchises a large segment of the country. I believe that this is an unnecessary attempt to secularise Christmas - sorry, but I truly feel that way. A Christmas Tree is identified as a just that - it's not a Hannukah bush, it's not a winter tree, it's not a festival tree - it's a Christmas tree - we all know it for what it is.
I'm offended as a catholic- for a Christmas tree has always been a symbol of some importance in my life - that they should have a religious symbol converted into a secular one in order to accommodate everyone . IMO, THAT is rediculous.
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| Posted 11/14/07 10:24 AM |
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bird382
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Member since 7/07 1712 total posts
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
I'm more offended that the Today Show did a whole segment about the tree being carted away from its happy little forest home smack in the middle of NBC's so-called "Green Week."
Because nothing screams "green" like chopping down trees...
(Okay, so it's ironic, not offensive. But still. )
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| Posted 11/14/07 10:28 AM |
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~Colleen~
my loves...
Member since 5/05 9129 total posts
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guess
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
Posted by bird382
I'm more offended that the Today Show did a whole segment about the tree being carted away from its happy little forest home smack in the middle of NBC's so-called "Green Week."
Because nothing screams "green" like chopping down trees...
(Okay, so it's ironic, not offensive. But still. )
I know, that was silly, right?
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| Posted 11/14/07 10:29 AM |
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june262004
But I love the Snow!
Member since 5/05 15379 total posts
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Kristin
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
Posted by bird382
I'm more offended that the Today Show did a whole segment about the tree being carted away from its happy little forest home smack in the middle of NBC's so-called "Green Week."
Because nothing screams "green" like chopping down trees...
(Okay, so it's ironic, not offensive. But still. )
Very Good Point!
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| Posted 11/14/07 10:29 AM |
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QuoteTheRaven424
22 Months?!!!!
Member since 5/05 13659 total posts
Name:
And If That Isn't A True Blue Miracle
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
Posted by HappyWife
It's a cultural thing too. In Turkey, people commonly decorate trees for the holiday/New Year (definitely not Christmas)...does that men they're wrong in calling it a holiday tree? Nope. It's just that's their cultural association.
Here, the association with decoated trees is with Christmas. But it doesn't really have anything to do with the birth of Christ. It's just how we celebrate it.
precisely
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| Posted 11/14/07 10:30 AM |
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Chica
Cuteness!
Member since 10/06 3013 total posts
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Erica
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
Posted by june262004
Posted by Chica
I think it's a Christmas Tree. That's what it's intended to be.
Now, what we have in our apt. will be a holiday tree b/c we have both Chanukah and Chistmas ornaments (I'm jewish, DH is catholic) and it's intended to represent both of our holidays. However, what's in Lincoln Center is hands down a Christmas Tree, as it should be.
thats fine what you call it in your house. I just have a question about it Is the menorah a holiday candle holder. I mean why can't you husband have a christmas tree and you a menorah?
Because if it was up to DH, we'd have nothing! I love the tradition of Christmas (being new to it -and all - I love it!) and Chanukah too. We decided to have a holiday tree as a way to unite our two family holiday traditions. It's something we created that's personal to us.
We do have Christmas Stockings, which are not "holiday stockings" and the Menorah, which is not only a religious symbol for Chanukah, but also something used to observe the holiday (e.g., I light the candles and say the prayers).
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| Posted 11/14/07 10:30 AM |
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~Colleen~
my loves...
Member since 5/05 9129 total posts
Name:
guess
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
Just curious.
For those that are offended that the christmas tree is being dubbed (by some) as a holiday tree...are you as equally offended by the merchandising that is shoved down our throats, as early as September?
Are you as equally as offended by the lack of "christ" in "christmas"?
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| Posted 11/14/07 10:31 AM |
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QuoteTheRaven424
22 Months?!!!!
Member since 5/05 13659 total posts
Name:
And If That Isn't A True Blue Miracle
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
Posted by BunnyBaby
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
See, to me and to most of the world, Christmas is a season or a state of mind, associated with trees, lights, ornaments, Santa and elves. These are all pagan symbols - and have nothing to do with the birth of Christ.
Why they took these things and associated them with the birth of Christ, I don't know.
But, to get offended and want to change the name is silly, as it has more to do with the season and nothing to do with the birth of Christ.
To me, there are more important things to be worried about than what they call a tree.
Yes. I believe there are more important things to be worried about as well, but what I dont understand is why all of a sudden is this an issue in the first place? It's like calling a menorah a candlestick, It's wrong. It's offensive (to many people) and it disenfranchises a large segment of the country. I believe that this is an unnecessary attempt to secularise Christmas - sorry, but I truly feel that way. A Christmas Tree is identified as a just that - it's not a Hannukah bush, it's not a winter tree, it's not a festival tree - it's a Christmas tree - we all know it for what it is.
I'm offended as a catholic- for a Christmas tree has always been a symbol of some importance in my life - that they should have a religious symbol converted into a secular one in order to accommodate everyone . IMO, THAT is rediculous.
as i said, the tree has NO religious connection to it whatsoever. It is NOT a religious symbol - at all.
If it is a religious symbol to you, then I am sorry you are offended.
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| Posted 11/14/07 10:32 AM |
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leighdvm
My golden boys!
Member since 3/06 4419 total posts
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Michele
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
Posted by ~Colleen~
Just curious.
For those that are offended that the christmas tree is being dubbed (by some) as a holiday tree...are you as equally offended by the merchandising that is shoved down our throats, as early as September?
Are you as equally as offended by the lack of "christ" in "christmas"?
I do get annoyed at the commercialism of it.....But I get just as annoyed when stores have "Veteran's Day Sales". It's just an excuse to make money on a day that should be for remembering the men and women who risk their lives for our country......
That being said, as long as I view Christmas for what is truly is, and celebrate it accordingly, I haven't commercialized it in my heart. I hope I made sense, I'm not that good with putting my thoughts down very coherently! Especially this early....
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| Posted 11/14/07 10:38 AM |
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BunnyBaby
Loving Motherhood!!!
Member since 11/07 1238 total posts
Name:
Audrina
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
Posted by BunnyBaby
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
See, to me and to most of the world, Christmas is a season or a state of mind, associated with trees, lights, ornaments, Santa and elves. These are all pagan symbols - and have nothing to do with the birth of Christ.
Why they took these things and associated them with the birth of Christ, I don't know.
But, to get offended and want to change the name is silly, as it has more to do with the season and nothing to do with the birth of Christ.
To me, there are more important things to be worried about than what they call a tree.
Yes. I believe there are more important things to be worried about as well, but what I dont understand is why all of a sudden is this an issue in the first place? It's like calling a menorah a candlestick, It's wrong. It's offensive (to many people) and it disenfranchises a large segment of the country. I believe that this is an unnecessary attempt to secularise Christmas - sorry, but I truly feel that way. A Christmas Tree is identified as a just that - it's not a Hannukah bush, it's not a winter tree, it's not a festival tree - it's a Christmas tree - we all know it for what it is.
I'm offended as a catholic- for a Christmas tree has always been a symbol of some importance in my life - that they should have a religious symbol converted into a secular one in order to accommodate everyone . IMO, THAT is rediculous.
as i said, the tree has NO religious connection to it whatsoever. It is NOT a religious symbol - at all.
If it is a religious symbol to you, then I am sorry you are offended.
Yes... You said that MANY times on this thread. Whether a Christmas tree has a religious connection or not- A Christmas tree has a connection to CHRISTMAS. This is not a debate of whether or not a tree has religious symbolism. Your taking something that symbolizes Christmas (to MANY) and taking the symbolism right out of it.
Is there another holiday in Dec, other than Christmas, that comes with tree decorating? Hanukkah has nothing to do with trees at all. Even Kwanza - I never saw a tree decorated in celebration for Kwanzaa. What is wrong in my opinion is the denial of the true symbolism as WE KNOW IT- whether it being in direct relation to Christ or not. What is offensive is stripping the tree of its KNOWN meaning in order to placate… who? Is anyone offended by the fact that a Christmas tree is a Christmas tree? Do Christians celebrating Christianity offend anyone??
Calling a Christmas tree a Holiday tree is not going to change anything!.
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| Posted 11/14/07 10:49 AM |
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
Posted by BunnyBaby
I'm offended as a catholic- for a Christmas tree has always been a symbol of some importance in my life - that they should have a religious symbol converted into a secular one in order to accommodate everyone . IMO, THAT is rediculous.
hi, another Catholic here. Of course it's absurd to de-christmas the tree.... and I don't really think there's more than 1% of the population that would disagree with that statement (as you can tell with the thread responses).
In this era tree=christmas...
a little historical background...
I love cultural history, and the evolution of holiday celebrations... historically, as mentioned earlier, the tree was pretty much exclusively german until the mid 19th century... when british royal family adopted the tree and made it popular after a princess married a german royal. so fine, the tree is a relatively recent addition....
MUCH more interesting, (to me, at least) is your comment that you are offended by the attempted secularization of christmas.... I don't know if you're aware of it, but it's been a MAJOR issue of debate for the last 1000 years or so! so much so, that fundamentalists (puritins, and really religious protestants in britian) have attempted to OUTLAW christmas.... Puritains actually went to work on that day... becuase prior to the mid 19th century, it was like mardi gras... major drunken naughty festivities in the street....
And it was secularized pretty much from day 1! How? well, while converting the pagens in europe to christianity, the priests made concessions.... they let the pagans encorporate local traditions (usually solstice or seasonal ones, giving offers to nature) into christianity. This is how we got those bunnies, eggs, indoor christmas trees, lights. They're all left over pagan traditions.... Virtually NO christmas tradition is original to christianity.... the original christians (before 4th century CE) didn't even consider christmas a major holiday. EASTER was the big one, for obvious reasons.
Soooo, pretty much no tradition (outside what we do at church) is really christian in origin, but on the flip side, they sure are a lot of fun... and they definitely symbolize christianity... and to me, in a good way... it shows the all-inclusive nature of our religious roots 
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| Posted 11/14/07 10:54 AM |
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mtnmama
Member since 5/06 4794 total posts
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Message edited 8/24/2009 10:48:40 AM.
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| Posted 11/14/07 11:03 AM |
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BunnyBaby
Loving Motherhood!!!
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Audrina
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
Posted by cpanyc
It's ridiculous. If they do not want to call it a Christmas tree, I would prefer they not even put it up. There is one reason for this season and symbols adopted over the years-whatever they may be- represent that season. I am saddened and disgusted at the continued secularization of Christian holidays period. Perfect proof that the almighty dollar is more important to Americans than than an almighty God.
Well said! 
I agree 100%
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| Posted 11/14/07 11:05 AM |
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
but the secular part of the tradition really IS the tradition.... never in history was it a sober religious celebration focussing upon church and Christ being born. It was always about local traditions and parties. I say embrace it.... but call it a Christmas tree, please
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| Posted 11/14/07 11:06 AM |
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McSullivan
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Member since 5/05 1573 total posts
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
Posted by ~Colleen~
Just curious.
For those that are offended that the christmas tree is being dubbed (by some) as a holiday tree...are you as equally offended by the merchandising that is shoved down our throats, as early as September?
Are you as equally as offended by the lack of "christ" in "christmas"?
Absolutely!! I could go on for hours about this topic.
My husband HATES Christmas for this reason. We were watching a commercial for Hallmark - the one with the singing animatronic thing they're selling this year. They say something about "Nothing says Christmas like the Hallmark trio" or something inane like that. Nothing about it says Christmas to me.
I LOVE Christmas AND I go out of my way to avoid the commercialization of it. I avoid malls and try not to get caught up in the chaos and marketing.
At it's core, Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Christ and it is a time for family, and friendship and humanity. I don't see what's so offensive about that - unless these are all considered bad things.
On a side note - the Christmas tree while a symbol of Christmas - is not a religious one.
The intensity of the movement to secularize this country is going to accomplish the exact opposite of what we, as Americans, pride ourselves on - our differences. The country will be scrubbed clean of anything deemed "offensive" - and there is ALWAYS something offensive to someone else - and we will all be exactly the same. I wonder then, what it is we will be fighting about.
Message edited 11/14/2007 11:16:56 AM.
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| Posted 11/14/07 11:13 AM |
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CookiePuss
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
Posted by bird382
I'm more offended that the Today Show did a whole segment about the tree being carted away from its happy little forest home smack in the middle of NBC's so-called "Green Week."
Because nothing screams "green" like chopping down trees...
(Okay, so it's ironic, not offensive. But still. )
I'm glad I'm not the only one that was 
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| Posted 11/14/07 11:17 AM |
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Kara
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Re: What is a "holiday tree"??
Posted by shamrock124
Posted by bird382
I'm more offended that the Today Show did a whole segment about the tree being carted away from its happy little forest home smack in the middle of NBC's so-called "Green Week."
Because nothing screams "green" like chopping down trees...
(Okay, so it's ironic, not offensive. But still. )
I'm glad I'm not the only one that was
OMG -- the TV in my elevators at work had a blurb that said they cut it down with hand saws to be more environmentally friendly. I saw that and LAUGED OUT LOUD. You're cutting down a tree, stupid. Using hand saws doesn't change that.
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| Posted 11/14/07 11:40 AM |
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