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LAMGAJ28
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Member since 10/05 6039 total posts
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Message edited 9/25/2011 3:00:09 PM.
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Posted 4/4/06 2:02 PM  |
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Daveswife
I'm all grown up now
Member since 11/05 1108 total posts
Name:
Valerie
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by Ambersmom
Posted by Daveswife
Someone said that they did not understand why America should "open it doors" to anyone who wants to live here. Should i remind everyone that America is made up of many nations? America is the way it is because of immigrants who came here and worked hard to contribute to society. I am proud that i came from a beautiful country. I am not ashamed, nor do i regret being born there. However since i grew up in America, i consider myself an American. America is beautiful because of people like me who truly believe that this the land of the free. 'With Liberty and Justice for ALL."
While I appreciate your viewpoint, a blanket statement about our country just isn't realistic. The problem with America is that it has become "land of the free"...free healthcare, free services, free education. But it's not free...it's coming at a dear price. The middle class is becoming as extinct as the dinosaur because we're overburdened with taxes and expenses for others. Why do you think there is over 23,000 houses for sale on Long Island? No one can afford to live here. I'm working 3 jobs and I still live paycheck to paycheck. It's not like we live high on the hog...it's just to cover basic needs. Sorry but Charity has to start at home.
As Snoop Dog said "They've all got their cups, but they ain't chipped in".
Land of the free does not only mean free education, free health care etc... . I got my eduction and My parents paid taxes too. College is not free, we paid for it, and i have never gotten free health care in my life. It is not just immigrants who are living off the government.
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:04 PM |
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LAMGAJ28
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Member since 10/05 6039 total posts
Name:
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Message edited 9/25/2011 3:00:43 PM.
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:06 PM |
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Summer05
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 2320 total posts
Name:
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by Daveswife
Posted by Ambersmom
Posted by Daveswife
Someone said that they did not understand why America should "open it doors" to anyone who wants to live here. Should i remind everyone that America is made up of many nations? America is the way it is because of immigrants who came here and worked hard to contribute to society. I am proud that i came from a beautiful country. I am not ashamed, nor do i regret being born there. However since i grew up in America, i consider myself an American. America is beautiful because of people like me who truly believe that this the land of the free. 'With Liberty and Justice for ALL."
While I appreciate your viewpoint, a blanket statement about our country just isn't realistic. The problem with America is that it has become "land of the free"...free healthcare, free services, free education. But it's not free...it's coming at a dear price. The middle class is becoming as extinct as the dinosaur because we're overburdened with taxes and expenses for others. Why do you think there is over 23,000 houses for sale on Long Island? No one can afford to live here. I'm working 3 jobs and I still live paycheck to paycheck. It's not like we live high on the hog...it's just to cover basic needs. Sorry but Charity has to start at home.
As Snoop Dog said "They've all got their cups, but they ain't chipped in".
Land of the free does not only mean free education, free health care etc... . I got my eduction and My parents paid taxes too. College is not free, we paid for it, and i have never gotten free health care in my life. It is not just immigrants who are living off the government.
College is a different situation. All children under the age of 18 are required to be educated in this country regardless of their citizenship. Children and pregnant women are also entitled to healthcare. That education and healthcare is paid for by the taxes that legal workers are paying.
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:08 PM |
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Daveswife
I'm all grown up now
Member since 11/05 1108 total posts
Name:
Valerie
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by MrsFresca
Posted by Daveswife
Posted by MrsFresca
Posted by Daveswife
Someone said that they did not understand why America should "open it doors" to anyone who wants to live here. Should i remind everyone that America is made up of many nations? America is the way it is because of immigrants who came here and worked hard to contribute to society. I am proud that i came from a beautiful country. I am not ashamed, nor do i regret being born there. However since i grew up in America, i consider myself an American. America is beautiful because of people like me who truly believe that this the land of the free. 'With Liberty and Justice for ALL."
Very nicely said but also America has its laws......Don't you follow the laws of this country?
I understand that there are laws. This is why i feel that if these people were given the chance to work and pay taxes legally, there would not be all of these illegal immigrants. And don't worry,this will not make everyone move to the US. There are people who want to stay in their countries and enjoy nice carribean weather all year long. 
I think by legalizing all these illegal immigrants this would not solve this problem. If they were to legalize them and have them pay taxes and then illegal immigration would stop, that is like an ideal situation but not happening. Once they legalize all the illegal ones that are here, there will be millions more trying to cross the border.
And I bet you anything those that want to stay in their Caribbean weather...I wonder if they already have some means of getting dollars at their Caribbean homes? Otherwise, I don't think they will be eager to stay there. Now will they?
Please clarify what you are trying to say.
Message edited 4/4/2006 2:10:16 PM.
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:09 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by DMcK
Posted by Summer05
Posted by Beth1210
IMO the people who so desperately want to sneak into this country have great reason to do so
the average Mexican in Mexico makes about $4 UDS a day
they can make $100 a day here and they come they work they send it back home to help
they perform many jobs that Americans think they are above- just like all the other immigrant groups who have come before them
if the situation were reversed- how many of you would try sneaking over the boarder- I know I would
the bottom line is we need them to run our economy
That is fine but they should be paying taxes like the rest of us!
How many Americans do you know that work off the books and do not pay taxes?
all those people are breaking the law. are you saying we should continue to look the other way? since when do 2 wrongs make a right?
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:10 PM |
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Shanti
True love
Member since 6/05 12653 total posts
Name:
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
How many Americans do you know that work off the books and do not pay taxes?
all those people are breaking the law. are you saying we should continue to look the other way? since when do 2 wrongs make a right?
I don't see anyone up in arms about that, which prob causes the loss of just as much tax money. That was my point.
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:11 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by MrsFresca
Posted by marymoon
Also, it's really hard to become legal. It's a multi stepp[rocess and it requires a lot of money. My friend's fiance is from Wales, and trying to do everything the legal way, but it's been horrible. He's been turned around at the airport, and they've been through a lot trying to "prove" their relationship, and that's an english speaking person with a sponsor.I can't imagine how hard it is for people who don't speak english and don't have someone to help them.
Even though the process is long and tedious, millions of people do it because they are following the laws of this country and they don't want to come here illegally. Why can't they do the same?
I'm really not sure. They're probably afraid of being deported and losing the much needed money they're getting.
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:11 PM |
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Summer05
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 2320 total posts
Name:
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by MrsFresca
Posted by marymoon
Also, it's really hard to become legal. It's a multi stepp[rocess and it requires a lot of money. My friend's fiance is from Wales, and trying to do everything the legal way, but it's been horrible. He's been turned around at the airport, and they've been through a lot trying to "prove" their relationship, and that's an english speaking person with a sponsor.I can't imagine how hard it is for people who don't speak english and don't have someone to help them.
Even though the process is long and tedious, millions of people do it because they are following the laws of this country and they don't want to come here illegally. Why can't they do the same?
I agree!
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:13 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by DMcK
How many Americans do you know that work off the books and do not pay taxes?
all those people are breaking the law. are you saying we should continue to look the other way? since when do 2 wrongs make a right?
I don't see anyone up in arms about that, which prob causes the loss of just as much tax money. That was my point.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. you can continue to bring up lots of other things that people here do illegally, or address one problem at a time.
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:16 PM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
Name:
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by DMcK
How many Americans do you know that work off the books and do not pay taxes?
all those people are breaking the law. are you saying we should continue to look the other way? since when do 2 wrongs make a right?
I don't see anyone up in arms about that, which prob causes the loss of just as much tax money. That was my point.
Those that do this are prosecuted...it's tax evasion and lots of people are in federal penitentiaries because of it. It is illegal and they were punished just like all those caught and convicted of such will in in the future. Tax evasion has not cause the same drain on the US tax basin as illegal immigration has caused. They really can't be compared.
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:16 PM |
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Beth
The Key to your new home....
Member since 2/06 24849 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
the sad thing is I don't think there is an answer- it goes in a circle
as long as there as such great differences in the way people live around the world- people are always going to try to find a better life
and it's easier for a Mexican to try to make it over the boarder then some one from another country to sneak in by plane
plenty of people come over under visas and stay for years- but they are less visable
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:18 PM |
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Shanti
True love
Member since 6/05 12653 total posts
Name:
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by DMcK
How many Americans do you know that work off the books and do not pay taxes?
all those people are breaking the law. are you saying we should continue to look the other way? since when do 2 wrongs make a right?
I don't see anyone up in arms about that, which prob causes the loss of just as much tax money. That was my point.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. you can continue to bring up lots of other things that people here do illegally, or address one problem at a time.
These issues go hand in hand though. People are complaining about the lack of taxes paid by illegals.
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:18 PM |
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Shanti
True love
Member since 6/05 12653 total posts
Name:
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by Beth1210
the sad thing is I don't think there is an answer- it goes in a circle
as long as there as such great differences in the way people live around the world- people are always going to try to find a better life
and it's easier for a Mexican to try to make it over the boarder then some one from another country to sneak in by plane
plenty of people come over under visas and stay for years- but they are less visable
I agree with you and I agree that there is no good answer. My mom came here from Italy legally when she was 12 - my grandfather had come 7 years before legally and it took that long for him to be able to "call" for his wife and children. I was talking about this issue with my mom the other day, and she felt very strongly that illegal immigration should be curbed and agreed with me that those here should not be demonized. Usually, they are desperate people looking for a better life. If you really stop and think about it, it is very sad the lengths that people go to try to make a better life -- imagine how bad their lives at home must be.
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:19 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by shamrock12472
Posted by DMcK
How many Americans do you know that work off the books and do not pay taxes?
all those people are breaking the law. are you saying we should continue to look the other way? since when do 2 wrongs make a right?
I don't see anyone up in arms about that, which prob causes the loss of just as much tax money. That was my point.
Those that do this are prosecuted...it's tax evasion and lots of people are in federal penitentiaries because of it. It is illegal and they were punished just like all those caught and convicted of such will in in the future. Tax evasion has not cause the same drain on the US tax basin as illegal immigration has caused. They really can't be compared.
even if they could be compared, it's moot point. people break the law everyday.
you need to address 1 problem at a time.
you might as well say "well what about drunk drivers, why aren't people up in arms about that too"
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:19 PM |
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Shanti
True love
Member since 6/05 12653 total posts
Name:
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by shamrock12472
Posted by DMcK
How many Americans do you know that work off the books and do not pay taxes?
all those people are breaking the law. are you saying we should continue to look the other way? since when do 2 wrongs make a right?
I don't see anyone up in arms about that, which prob causes the loss of just as much tax money. That was my point.
Those that do this are prosecuted...it's tax evasion and lots of people are in federal penitentiaries because of it. It is illegal and they were punished just like all those caught and convicted of such will in in the future. Tax evasion has not cause the same drain on the US tax basin as illegal immigration has caused. They really can't be compared.
even if they could be compared, it's moot point. people break the law everyday.
you need to address 1 problem at a time.
you might as well say "well what about drunk drivers, why aren't people up in arms about that too"
I disagree, I think they go together
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:20 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by DMcK
Posted by Beth1210
the sad thing is I don't think there is an answer- it goes in a circle
as long as there as such great differences in the way people live around the world- people are always going to try to find a better life
and it's easier for a Mexican to try to make it over the boarder then some one from another country to sneak in by plane
plenty of people come over under visas and stay for years- but they are less visable
I agree with you and I agree that there is no good answer. My mom came here from Italy legally when she was 12 - my grandfather had come 7 years before legally and it took that long for him to be able to "call" for his wife and children. I was talking about this issue with my mom the other day, and she felt very strongly that illegal immigration should be curbed and agreed with me that those here should not be demonized. Usually, they are desperate people looking for a better life. If you really stop and think about it, it is very sad the lengths that people go to try to make a better life -- imagine how bad their lives at home must be.
I am not saying they don't have a hard life. a lot of people do all over the world. it's not our reponsibility to take them all in when we have severe issues of our own.
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:21 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by Summer05
Posted by MrsFresca
Posted by marymoon
Also, it's really hard to become legal. It's a multi stepp[rocess and it requires a lot of money. My friend's fiance is from Wales, and trying to do everything the legal way, but it's been horrible. He's been turned around at the airport, and they've been through a lot trying to "prove" their relationship, and that's an english speaking person with a sponsor.I can't imagine how hard it is for people who don't speak english and don't have someone to help them.
Even though the process is long and tedious, millions of people do it because they are following the laws of this country and they don't want to come here illegally. Why can't they do the same?
I agree!
I don't really know. Maybe they don't know how, maybe they are afraid of being deported. I don't know why we have an illegal immigration problem. I'mnot informed about this, but I think instead of a "crackdown", there needs to be reform in the system to help people who want to become legal do it in an accessible way.
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:22 PM |
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MrsS2005
Mom of 3
Member since 11/05 13118 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by DMcK
Posted by Beth1210
the sad thing is I don't think there is an answer- it goes in a circle
as long as there as such great differences in the way people live around the world- people are always going to try to find a better life
and it's easier for a Mexican to try to make it over the boarder then some one from another country to sneak in by plane
plenty of people come over under visas and stay for years- but they are less visable
I agree with you and I agree that there is no good answer. My mom came here from Italy legally when she was 12 - my grandfather had come 7 years before legally and it took that long for him to be able to "call" for his wife and children. I was talking about this issue with my mom the other day, and she felt very strongly that illegal immigration should be curbed and agreed with me that those here should not be demonized. Usually, they are desperate people looking for a better life. If you really stop and think about it, it is very sad the lengths that people go to try to make a better life -- imagine how bad their lives at home must be.
I am not saying they don't have a hard life. a lot of people do all over the world. it's not our reponsibility to take them all in when we have severe issues of our own.
I completely agree. At some point, we need to start caring about the welfare of our own citizens before others.
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:23 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by DMcK
Posted by Beth1210
the sad thing is I don't think there is an answer- it goes in a circle
as long as there as such great differences in the way people live around the world- people are always going to try to find a better life
and it's easier for a Mexican to try to make it over the boarder then some one from another country to sneak in by plane
plenty of people come over under visas and stay for years- but they are less visable
I agree with you and I agree that there is no good answer. My mom came here from Italy legally when she was 12 - my grandfather had come 7 years before legally and it took that long for him to be able to "call" for his wife and children. I was talking about this issue with my mom the other day, and she felt very strongly that illegal immigration should be curbed and agreed with me that those here should not be demonized. Usually, they are desperate people looking for a better life. If you really stop and think about it, it is very sad the lengths that people go to try to make a better life -- imagine how bad their lives at home must be.
I am not saying they don't have a hard life. a lot of people do all over the world. it's not our reponsibility to take them all in when we have severe issues of our own.
But we're a njation of immigrants. most of us wouldn't be here, if our parents and grandparents hadn't been "taken in"
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:23 PM |
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Shanti
True love
Member since 6/05 12653 total posts
Name:
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by DMcK
Posted by Beth1210
the sad thing is I don't think there is an answer- it goes in a circle
as long as there as such great differences in the way people live around the world- people are always going to try to find a better life
and it's easier for a Mexican to try to make it over the boarder then some one from another country to sneak in by plane
plenty of people come over under visas and stay for years- but they are less visable
I agree with you and I agree that there is no good answer. My mom came here from Italy legally when she was 12 - my grandfather had come 7 years before legally and it took that long for him to be able to "call" for his wife and children. I was talking about this issue with my mom the other day, and she felt very strongly that illegal immigration should be curbed and agreed with me that those here should not be demonized. Usually, they are desperate people looking for a better life. If you really stop and think about it, it is very sad the lengths that people go to try to make a better life -- imagine how bad their lives at home must be.
I am not saying they don't have a hard life. a lot of people do all over the world. it's not our reponsibility to take them all in when we have severe issues of our own.
I never said it was our responsibility to "take them all in." I just think sometime it is nice to view human issues in a sympathetic light and attempt to see where all parties involved or coming from. "I have my own problems too" is just not an attitude I choose to hold.
Of course the US has her problems but we remain a wonderful country with incredible opportunity. That dream of opportunity is what has made us this country we are. We could not be and would not be the country we are without immigration. Granted, illegal immigration is a problem, I just happen to feel that it is not as huge a problem as is being portrayed in the media. Yes, some taxes are not paid because there are illegals here but taxes are not paid illegally by millions of Americans, which is the same problem, but no one is up in arms about that.
No one is going to change anyone's mind on this issue, of course, just throwing my 2 cents in.
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:26 PM |
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LAMGAJ28
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Member since 10/05 6039 total posts
Name:
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....
Message edited 9/25/2011 2:59:47 PM.
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:26 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by MrsFresca
Posted by marymoon
Posted by Summer05
Posted by MrsFresca
Posted by marymoon
Also, it's really hard to become legal. It's a multi stepp[rocess and it requires a lot of money. My friend's fiance is from Wales, and trying to do everything the legal way, but it's been horrible. He's been turned around at the airport, and they've been through a lot trying to "prove" their relationship, and that's an english speaking person with a sponsor.I can't imagine how hard it is for people who don't speak english and don't have someone to help them.
Even though the process is long and tedious, millions of people do it because they are following the laws of this country and they don't want to come here illegally. Why can't they do the same?
I agree!
I don't really know. Maybe they don't know how, maybe they are afraid of being deported. I don't know why we have an illegal immigration problem. I'mnot informed about this, but I think instead of a "crackdown", there needs to be reform in the system to help people who want to become legal do it in an accessible way.
The system is there...accessible and waiting for them to apply.
They just do not want to wait......and cross the borders illegally....
Is that really true, and do they know it? I don't think there are so many illegal immigrants because people are too lazy to do paperwork and wait. There has to be something else to it.
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:30 PM |
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Daveswife
I'm all grown up now
Member since 11/05 1108 total posts
Name:
Valerie
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by marymoon
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by DMcK
Posted by Beth1210
the sad thing is I don't think there is an answer- it goes in a circle
as long as there as such great differences in the way people live around the world- people are always going to try to find a better life
and it's easier for a Mexican to try to make it over the boarder then some one from another country to sneak in by plane
plenty of people come over under visas and stay for years- but they are less visable
I agree with you and I agree that there is no good answer. My mom came here from Italy legally when she was 12 - my grandfather had come 7 years before legally and it took that long for him to be able to "call" for his wife and children. I was talking about this issue with my mom the other day, and she felt very strongly that illegal immigration should be curbed and agreed with me that those here should not be demonized. Usually, they are desperate people looking for a better life. If you really stop and think about it, it is very sad the lengths that people go to try to make a better life -- imagine how bad their lives at home must be.
I am not saying they don't have a hard life. a lot of people do all over the world. it's not our reponsibility to take them all in when we have severe issues of our own.
But we're a njation of immigrants. most of us wouldn't be here, if our parents and grandparents hadn't been "taken in"
We were all taken at some point. And again, not all immigrants are looking for handouts. They come to work.
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:30 PM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
Name:
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Re: Illegal immigration debate
Posted by DMcK
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by DMcK
Posted by Beth1210
the sad thing is I don't think there is an answer- it goes in a circle
as long as there as such great differences in the way people live around the world- people are always going to try to find a better life
and it's easier for a Mexican to try to make it over the boarder then some one from another country to sneak in by plane
plenty of people come over under visas and stay for years- but they are less visable
I agree with you and I agree that there is no good answer. My mom came here from Italy legally when she was 12 - my grandfather had come 7 years before legally and it took that long for him to be able to "call" for his wife and children. I was talking about this issue with my mom the other day, and she felt very strongly that illegal immigration should be curbed and agreed with me that those here should not be demonized. Usually, they are desperate people looking for a better life. If you really stop and think about it, it is very sad the lengths that people go to try to make a better life -- imagine how bad their lives at home must be.
I am not saying they don't have a hard life. a lot of people do all over the world. it's not our reponsibility to take them all in when we have severe issues of our own.
I never said it was our responsibility to "take them all in." I just think sometime it is nice to view human issues in a sympathetic light and attempt to see where all parties involved or coming from. "I have my own problems too" is just not an attitude I choose to hold.
Of course the US has her problems but we remain a wonderful country with incredible opportunity. That dream of opportunity is what has made us this country we are. We could not be and would not be the country we are without immigration. Granted, illegal immigration is a problem, I just happen to feel that it is not as huge a problem as is being portrayed in the media. Yes, some taxes are not paid because there are illegals here but taxes are not paid illegally by millions of Americans, which is the same problem, but no one is up in arms about that.
No one is going to change anyone's mind on this issue, of course, just throwing my 2 cents in.
The problem stems from places where the impoverished, illegal population is very high. As I stated before as an example, Los Angles' is in fiscal crisis because of the drain the illegal population is putting on the city's social services. So it isn't just the point that "some" taxes aren't being paid; some cities are facing crisis because of this.
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| Posted 4/4/06 2:31 PM |
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