When another family member reprimands your child

Anyone have experience when one of your siblings took the liberty of reprimanding your child in the form of a time out when it wasn't necessary?

Today my brother tried to get a hug and kiss from Sabrina but was very demanding instead of asking. Not in a hurtful way, but more in a joking way "get over here and give me a kiss or I'm gonna pinch that butt". The kind of thing that may sound cute but could also make a three year unsure of if the person was kidding or not.

So he scooped her up for a kiss in a playful way and she got a little scared and said "No, put me down! I want my mommy". He told her to stop crying for mommy and she threw a toy she had been holding as a way of coping with the situation.

He turned to me and told me that he thought she deserved a time out for throwing something and he took her into another room and closed the door and sat her on the couch and sat across from her and stared at her while she was crying, telling her that her cries were fake (sort of kidding, but not really).

I waited a minute before going in, to see if she stopped crying, thinking maybe she was faking, the finally went in and she was sobbing with her lip quivering.

I yelled at my brother and he accused me of not disciplining my child.

I am so angry right now. I love my brother and I know he loves Sabrina but he thinks children should be little soldiers. He doesn't have any children of his own and I really think he just doesn't understand them.

After the scene, Sabrina wanted nothing to do with my brother. He went home (we were at my parents' house) and she didn't even want to say good bye. She seemed really afraid of him.

Now I don't know what the next step is. Let him cool down and let the whole thing blow over. Sit him down and talk to him (which could get ugly since he doesn't think he is ever wrong) or just avoid him completely and have my daughter grow up not really knowing either of her uncle's (BIL lives in Poland).

Ugh....why

Re: When another family member reprimands your child

Oh man, what a situation.

First off, do not jump the gun here and think you need to avoid your brother over this.

Second, your brother clearly is CLUELESS about children. He WAY overstepped his boundaries as an uncle. You need to at least TRY to get him to understand why what he did was so, so wrong. And, in the future, if he EVER attempts this again, jump RIGHT IN and protect your DD. Do not let him ever do this again.

The good news is that your DD will probably forget the situation by the next time she sees your brother.

Re: When another family member reprimands your child

I know this is going to sound like I'm over reacting, but I wanted to say that one of the most important things I ever learned about keeping a child safe from ever being abused (sexually) is by never forcing them to EVER kiss or hug anyone - even a family member. It takes away their power to assert themselves and confuses them in situations where they really should say "no". I would wihtout a doubt have gone 100000% apesh*t on his a s s.

ETA: Not to mention that he used intimidation with her which is really a bad thing to use with a young child.... oh no - I would NOT have been ok with any of that AT all!!!!

Message edited 5/31/2010 10:44:21 PM.

Re: When another family member reprimands your child

Posted by lipglossjunky73

I know this is going to sound like I'm over reacting, but I wanted to say that one of the most important things I ever learned about keeping a child safe from ever being abused (sexually) is by never forcing them to EVER kiss or hug anyone - even a family member. It takes away their power to assert themselves and confuses them in situations where they really should say "no". I would wihtout a doubt have gone 100000% apesh*t on his a s s.

ETA: Not to mention that he used intimidation with her which is really a bad thing to use with a young child.... oh no - I would NOT have been ok with any of that AT all!!!!

Re: When another family member reprimands your child

I would definitely talk to your brother about this....without anyone else around. Explain to him that he doesn't have to agree with how you're raising your child, but you're not asking him for advice and it's NOT ok for him to take matters into his own hands.
Lily would have FREAKED out if anyone ever did that to her. She gets really intimidated by men still...even my brothers, who she sees pretty regularly. She's still a little weirded out by her one grandfather and won't always give him a kiss or a hug hello. And I never push her to give a kiss or a hug to people...unless I know she's ok with it.

I would be really bothered if any family member did that to Lily. It's one thing if she threw something at him for no reason....but HE created the situation when HE tried to force her to do something. Her reaction was to HIS actions, and if anyone should be punished....it should be him!

Re: When another family member reprimands your child

CF crashing.......

I think this comes down to the kind of relationship that you have with your brother and what is allowed between you two.

My brother and I are very close, and he has 2 children. I have reprimanded his children more times than I can remember. But this is because he allows me to have that authority and it is something he is comfortable with. As far as my niece & nephew know, their "Titi" has just as much power/authority to discipline them as Mommy & Daddy do, and they understand and respect that.

But if you are not okay with this, then you do have a right to be angry. If your brother felt she needed to be reprimanded, then he should have handed her off to you, and not taken it upon himself.

Perhaps you should sit down with him and explain why you were so mad, and how you feel situations should be handled in the future.

Re: When another family member reprimands your child

Posted by lvdolphins

Posted by lipglossjunky73

I know this is going to sound like I'm over reacting, but I wanted to say that one of the most important things I ever learned about keeping a child safe from ever being abused (sexually) is by never forcing them to EVER kiss or hug anyone - even a family member. It takes away their power to assert themselves and confuses them in situations where they really should say "no". I would wihtout a doubt have gone 100000% apesh*t on his a s s.

ETA: Not to mention that he used intimidation with her which is really a bad thing to use with a young child.... oh no - I would NOT have been ok with any of that AT all!!!!

I'm going to say, this came across my mind as well.
No child should EVER be forced to hug or kiss!
I'm so sorry, but, IMO, your brother was out of line. If it were my brother with either of my kids, we would not be on speaking terms for a bit!
Your brother needs to learn its NOT ok!!!!!

Re: When another family member reprimands your child

This is not a matter of a family member disciplining a child....this poor girl did nothing to warrant discipline. Furthermore, time out and seclusion are two different things. ....time out should never be used as a punishment for bad behavior (which she didn't exhibit), but rather a calming strategy to prevent further outbursts. IMO, not only was your brother completely out of line, I also think it bordered on abusive...regardless of how he perceived himself (playful, joking, etc.). Not only was he militaristic in his expectations for a 3 year old, his technique was passive-aggressive. Children do not understand that "humor", nor should they. My heart hurts for your DD. I completely empathize with how scared she was. I don't know what advice to give you. Maybe print this thread out and give it to him. With the way he over-reacted to toddler behavior, I'd be cautious about approaching him about his own behavior (which is at the root of the entire situation). He needs to see that his actions were threatening, intimidating and WAY off the mark in terms of effective discipline. They barely constituted effective interaction. Sorry to be so harsh, but I really feel angered and sad by your story. I hope that your DD lets this roll off her back, but I suspect that she will not trust him again for a long time. I'm sorry that you are both in this situation. Good Luck.

Re: When another family member reprimands your child

Re: When another family member reprimands your child

I hope your brother can see his part in this.

He threatened to pinch her if she didn't kiss him. First, that's not really going to get her to warm up. Second, I agree with Liza about the forcing your child to kiss or hug adults. His punishment wasn't appropriate. She threw a toy in frustration & anger. Then the uncle that - in her mind & rightfully so in her mind- threatened to hurt her, takes her away from her parents in seculsion for a time out. He should have handed her off to you or put her down & let her have her space.

In his defense, there is a joke that comes to mind - if you want to know how to raise a child, ask someone who doesn't have one - it's the last time they'll know everything about raising a child. He doesn't know what he doesn't know. On the other hand, I've seen parents that pick & choose their battles with a line in the sand that I would have drawn much sooner (not applicable in this case but thinking the playground kid that is throwing sand at other kids & the mom only intervenes when her kid strikes another).

I would tell him that you are going with the idea that a child shouldn't be forced to show affection to someone if they don't want to. They need to be polite & respectful of them but no - they do not need to show affection to someone when they don't want to.
Then approach him from Sabrina's perspective. In her mind you were going to "hurt" her if she didn't kiss you. Not only is that a message I don't want to send to my daughter but a 3 year old doesn't get that kind of kidding. Then you took her away from her parents to punish her. Picture how that would have frightened her. Even if he was trying to reason with her & explain, I don't think a 3 year old would have been able to think anything but he's going to pinch me/hurt me. Then tell him how you agree that if your daughter is misbehaving she should be disciplined but that you want to be the one that does it - so in the future, tell you or DH & you will handle it. That also means you do need to "handle it" whether it means taking her for some quiet time with you to ease the tension for her sake or actually disciplining her if you think it's necessary.

I would also tell him as much as he truly does want a loving relationship with his niece, he has had a set back. He needs to suck up to her a bit, play with her in front of mommy until he rebuilds that trust. I'm not kidding eithr. She's not going to get over this. He can try & reason with a 3 year old that he was upset because she wouldn't kiss him & then threw a toy but he may as well bang his head against the wall.

It's obvious from your posts that he does love your little girl & wants to be part of her life- but most adults don't get how a 3 year old thinks - especially if they aren't around them all day.

The disclaimer to all of the above is I don't claim to know how your brother's mind works anymore than I know how all children's minds work.

I'm sorry your weekend was marred by this.

Re: When another family member reprimands your child

I think your brother was 100% wrong in this situation. It doesn't sound to me like an appropriate time out at all.

Re: When another family member reprimands your child

Re: When another family member reprimands your child

Posted by lvdolphins

Posted by lipglossjunky73

I know this is going to sound like I'm over reacting, but I wanted to say that one of the most important things I ever learned about keeping a child safe from ever being abused (sexually) is by never forcing them to EVER kiss or hug anyone - even a family member. It takes away their power to assert themselves and confuses them in situations where they really should say "no". I would wihtout a doubt have gone 100000% apesh*t on his a s s.

ETA: Not to mention that he used intimidation with her which is really a bad thing to use with a young child.... oh no - I would NOT have been ok with any of that AT all!!!!

I'm going to say, this came across my mind as well.
No child should EVER be forced to hug or kiss!
I'm so sorry, but, IMO, your brother was out of line. If it were my brother with either of my kids, we would not be on speaking terms for a bit!
Your brother needs to learn its NOT ok!!!!!

Re: When another family member reprimands your child

Posted by nrthshgrl

I hope your brother can see his part in this.

He threatened to pinch her if she didn't kiss him. First, that's not really going to get her to warm up. Second, I agree with Liza about the forcing your child to kiss or hug adults. His punishment wasn't appropriate. She threw a toy in frustration & anger. Then the uncle that - in her mind & rightfully so in her mind- threatened to hurt her, takes her away from her parents in seculsion for a time out. He should have handed her off to you or put her down & let her have her space.

In his defense, there is a joke that comes to mind - if you want to know how to raise a child, ask someone who doesn't have one - it's the last time they'll know everything about raising a child. He doesn't know what he doesn't know. On the other hand, I've seen parents that pick & choose their battles with a line in the sand that I would have drawn much sooner (not applicable in this case but thinking the playground kid that is throwing sand at other kids & the mom only intervenes when her kid strikes another).

I would tell him that you are going with the idea that a child shouldn't be forced to show affection to someone if they don't want to. They need to be polite & respectful of them but no - they do not need to show affection to someone when they don't want to.
Then approach him from Sabrina's perspective. In her mind you were going to "hurt" her if she didn't kiss you. Not only is that a message I don't want to send to my daughter but a 3 year old doesn't get that kind of kidding. Then you took her away from her parents to punish her. Picture how that would have frightened her. Even if he was trying to reason with her & explain, I don't think a 3 year old would have been able to think anything but he's going to pinch me/hurt me. Then tell him how you agree that if your daughter is misbehaving she should be disciplined but that you want to be the one that does it - so in the future, tell you or DH & you will handle it. That also means you do need to "handle it" whether it means taking her for some quiet time with you to ease the tension for her sake or actually disciplining her if you think it's necessary.

I would also tell him as much as he truly does want a loving relationship with his niece, he has had a set back. He needs to suck up to her a bit, play with her in front of mommy until he rebuilds that trust. I'm not kidding eithr. She's not going to get over this. He can try & reason with a 3 year old that he was upset because she wouldn't kiss him & then threw a toy but he may as well bang his head against the wall.

It's obvious from your posts that he does love your little girl & wants to be part of her life- but most adults don't get how a 3 year old thinks - especially if they aren't around them all day.

The disclaimer to all of the above is I don't claim to know how your brother's mind works anymore than I know how all children's minds work.

I'm sorry your weekend was marred by this.

Re: When another family member reprimands your child

If anyone put my child into time out while I was there lets just say there would be h#ll to pay. I agree with OP's about the hugging and kissing thing. I will never force my kids to give someone a hug or kiss

Re: When another family member reprimands your child

It's not so much that he disciplined your child that would bother me, but the circumstances leading up to it that would.

Your brother is sending your daughter a message that could get her into some serious trouble down the road by disciplining her, in her mind, for refusing to hug/kiss him.

Alex has never been a touchy-feely kind of kid and often refuses to hug/kiss even close friends. I make a serious, SERIOUS point of NEVER forcing her to hug/kiss anyone and allowing her the freedom to choose her comfort zone for physical contact.

To force a child to hug/kiss, even close family members, sends them the message that they must always defer to adults when it comes to physical contact, which is problematic, I think. Personally, I think it's soooooo important to teach young girls about boundaries and teach them to empower themselves when it comes to making choices about making that contact. It gives them the confidence to say NO in appropriate situations down the line...

Re: When another family member reprimands your child

Posted by lipglossjunky73

I know this is going to sound like I'm over reacting, but I wanted to say that one of the most important things I ever learned about keeping a child safe from ever being abused (sexually) is by never forcing them to EVER kiss or hug anyone - even a family member. It takes away their power to assert themselves and confuses them in situations where they really should say "no". I would wihtout a doubt have gone 100000% apesh*t on his a s s.

ETA: Not to mention that he used intimidation with her which is really a bad thing to use with a young child.... oh no - I would NOT have been ok with any of that AT all!!!!

Re: When another family member reprimands your child

My SIL does this and is P-ISSES me off to HOLY H-E-L-L!

The other day she "reprimanded" Eddie for saying "hey" to her DS. Like "hey, thats my toy." I almost lost my sh!t. I was like he is allowed to say "hey"

A few weeks ago DH and I had a HUGE argument over it!

Re: When another family member reprimands your child

The only people I was ever disciplined by other than my own parents were other caretakers. So if an aunt or grandma watches dc a lot I think it is appropriate for them to verbally discipline even when mom is around (still I think a "time out" is a bit over the line). I don't think it is EVER appropriate for an uncle like you explained to discipline a child besides some kind of avoidance of danger- like maybe, "Get out of the street NOW" or something like that, kwim?

I don't know if I would talk to my brother about it- maybe I would let it go and just make sure it never happened again. I would guess that after whatever words you already had about it he wouldn't try and discipline her again- so it might not even be worth the added confrontation.

I also can see why dd got upset. He sort of gave her a choice between two things that both involved being touched- give me a kiss or I will pinch your butt. So, if dd did not feel like being touchy/ feel comfortable for whatever reason (maybe she was just cranky or whatever- I'm not saying he necessarily does anything inappropriate) well then she must have felt up against a wall, kwim?

Re: When another family member reprimands your child

The whole situation is bad. I think you've gotten enough feedback to reassure you that YOU were not in the wrong.
No one forces a hug/affection on my children and no one puts my child in time out except for his parents.

Message edited 6/1/2010 12:49:38 PM.