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Message edited 1/8/2008 11:52:49 PM.

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

As someone who is ONLY getting FMLA and no other 'maternity leave', let me tell you that it does NOT provide income...it just holds your job for 12 unpaid weeks.

Is it really ethical? No - according to a strict, black-and-white definition of the word it is not ethical to lie. But I don't find fault with those who do it. IMO, your child's well being is the most important thing.

I will be returning to work after I give birth because that's the only way we can pay the bills, but I find no fault with anyone who claims they're coming back to work and then doesn't.

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

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Message edited 3/8/2009 8:36:36 AM.

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

Let me start by saying I get zero paid maternity leave. If I don't have the sick days saved up, I get nothing.

That being said - I think there are two sides to every story.

Yes, in some ways it stinks for future pregnant women when a women says over and over that she is coming back and doesn't (knowing full well that was her game plan all along - obviously sometimes things change and a woman with every intention to come back can't). Everytime a woman does that, it make the bosses leery about the "next" one - will she come back??

On the other hand, 9 months is a long time to be discriminated against in the office. We all know stories of pregnant women who didn't get the raise or promotion they were supposed to since the boss felt things had "changed" and "would she come back". To tell them upfront you're not coming back - I think that would be a very hard environment to work in.

It's a tough call!!

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

First, let me start off by saying that I so far, am getting NOTHING. No FMLA, no paid maternity, nothing but $170 for 6 weeks.......

Second, I have a question. If you tell your employer you aren't coming back, you don't qualify for FMLA or maternity? Shouldn't that be part of your contract whether you come back or not?
Sorry if this sounds naive, but I haev no experience with this, so that's why I am asking.

As far as being unethical, well, yes, it may be, however, where would women be if they were completely truthful about their agenda? They still have mouths to feed and a job to secure in case they DO decide to come back.

As a first time mom-to-be, I have no idea what is in store for me and I feel bad that I cannot give my boss a straight answer.

Message edited 7/27/2007 11:36:23 AM.

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

People are asking me all the time at work if I'm coming back and I have 3 months to go. I think that's unethical. Leave me be. This is my first baby and my heart wants to be home with the baby but in reality when it comes to paying the bills sometimes that can't be. PG women just don't know if they say they are and then don't I don't fault them or think they lied to the employer. You don't know the circumstances behind their final decision. I don't think that those who decide in the end not to go back are being unethical or "abused" the policy in any way.

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

I'm usually a pretty honest and ethical person, but I would not feel guilty at all about lying about this for a few reasons.

I don't see a whole lot of company loyalty to employees, and I think it has to go both ways. I also think in many fields, women are already discriminated against, purely because of their ability to bear children.

Second, in my particular case, I have to use up all of my vacation and sick time, that I have worked to accumulate and have not used as the first part of my maternity leave. If I just quit, I could possibly lost all of that paid time off I worked hard to earn (and didn't abuse by calling in sick excessively.)

Finally, one never knows what can happen. You might have a plan of staying home, but what if your DH lost his job or his health insurance? You might have to go back, even if you don't want to. Why not keep the option open for yourself? A lot can happen in 9-12 months.

I will return to work after maternity leave, but even if I weren't planning on it, I wouldn't lay all my cards on the table until absolutely necessary.

Message edited 7/27/2007 11:40:45 AM.

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

It's definately a tough call and basically unethical but I have no problem with it. As I see it, we often pay into things that never end up paying off or payng us back. For example, Homeowner's insurance policies and the issues surrounding that right now. People pay into it all that time and then get dropped because there is a chance of a hurricane and a claim. How is that even close to fair???? So it doesn't bother me one bit if a working mom takes her maternity and then leaves.

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

It might be unethical, but i agree with some previous posters that most companies would turn their back on you for a second. Once in a while we have to just loo out for ourselves. I also think that all options should be kept open. Something may happen while on maternity leave, that you find you want/need to go back

For me i am going back..but..if I wasn't I would not tell my employer because all of my paid time off will be MY TIME that i accrued. Sick and vacation. If I were to just leave I would lose it all. So IMO that would be incredibly stupid of me. Why not use up my hard earned time before flying the coup???

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

As someone who works in HR I get your point however to play devil's advocate jobs lie to workers all the time. You assume that just because you go to work and give 100% every day that you have job security but I can show you workers who get let go for silly reasons or no good reason at all. So its a two way game.

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

I do not think it is ethical but I would do it.

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

Well, my bosses knows from the beginning of my pregnancy that I will not return to work. However, I will not judge anyone for their decisions.

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

I get 3 months at full pay maternity leave and I'm currently planning on not coming back and not telling them until the end of my leave.

First of all after 5 years working here I feel I deserve it. Second of all there is a chance I may need to come back if DH's situation changes or something else unforseeable comes up so I need to keep my options open. I don't see anything less ethical about doing this than someone who plans to come back and then changes her mind.

I think people need to do what feels right to them. It's different for all of us. Plans and situations can change and I know companies expect that. I think it also depends on the kind of company you work for and how you are treated.

That said for those who saw my post yesterday, I could be resigning on Monday anyway.

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

The benefits that a woman on maternity leave gets are benefits that she paid for one way or another while working (b/c when an employer pays for benefits, it is part of the cost of having that employee, and less $$ that can go straight to the employee). Women only have to lie because employers won't do the right thing. I am self employed and have no one to lie to, so I am not answering this way to defend myself.

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

Posted by curliegirl
Second, I have a question. If you tell your employer you aren't coming back, you don't qualify for FMLA or maternity? Shouldn't that be part of your contract whether you come back or not?
Sorry if this sounds naive, but I haev no experience with this, so that's why I am asking.

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

As a SAHM none of this really pertains to me so Im not even going to voice an opinion....

BUT....

The United States has basically the worse maternity leave..benefits, options, etc...in the WORLD!!!! IRAQ & IRAN have better!!!!!!!

If you see what some other countries offer....UGH!!!

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

Posted by hbugalla

As a SAHM none of this really pertains to me so Im not even going to voice an opinion....

BUT....

The United States has basically the worse maternity leave..benefits, options, etc...in the WORLD!!!! IRAQ & IRAN have better!!!!!!!

If you see what some other countries offer....UGH!!!

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

It depends on the company, I think. I was not protected under FMLA (worked for 3+ years at a small company) and I was fired at 38 weeks pregnant just before my disability was about to start.

Honestly, it may not be the most ethical thing in the world to not tell your employer that you aren't coming back, and in some cases there may be consequences, but what I have learned from my experience is that you have to protect yourself, your family and your best interest.

I was fired while using my accured sick and vacation days. Is that ethical? To fire someone who ran your office and maintained it for 3+ years because you discovered you could pay her co-worker $5k less a year to do the same job? As the pp's have said, their backs were turned on me in a split second.

Message edited 7/27/2007 1:18:24 PM.

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

Honestly, I do feel guilty but not enough to lose sleep over it. I'm not stealing from the company, I am taking what I am owed IMO.

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

i dont find it ethical what companies do to pregnant women so i believe its ok to quit after maternity. some women have all intentions of going back and then realize they cannot leave their child.

in my situation. i was in the process of getting promoted before i announced i was pregnant and then within 2 months of announcing, i was stripped of responsibilites and let go. told that my roll for the following year i was able to perform. let me tell you when i called HR and said this is unethical to let a 6 1/2 month pregnant women go with 4 weeks severance is unfair since i was never written up, recieved awards, and a write up from a co worker about outstanding job- be let go becuase a difficult pregnancy got in the way. thats unethical so i am for taking teh maternity pay an dthen the fmla time an then leaving if thats whats right for you and the baby.

i ended up getting 2 months pay, 4 weeks severance and 13 weeks maternity in the end. that was the ethical thing. then they terminated my position and i got 13 weeks unemployment. so in the end my daughter and i had a little security for 6 months.

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions

I HOPE to find another job while ON maternity leave, but I dont plan on telling my company that. My fear is that if I am honest with them, they could find some reason to fire me. I know it would be illegal, but they could fine a "legitimate" reason to fire me and do it. I'm in a right to hire (or whatever they call it) state, so they don't really need a reason to fire me. Just can't be illegal.

ALSO i may need this job after all if I can't find another one during maternity. So I don't want to burn bridges and be stuck with no income.

They also said they don't expect me to come back, but if i do, then great.

Message edited 7/27/2007 1:41:18 PM.

Re: not trying to start controversy -- but interested in honest opinions