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LoriH
There's no place like home
Member since 8/07 4110 total posts
Name:
Lori
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Mental Health Reform
In the wake of the Elementary school shooting in Newton CT, I have heard so much talk about gun control. I honestly do not think that is what we should be focusing on.
I really feel that a mentally ill person hell bent on destruction/carnage/terror will find a way to do what they have convinced themselves they need to do.
What are some changes or reforms you would like to see in relation to mental health care in this country?
What I would like to see happen is more research funds be put into understanding the increase in mental illness in the United States. Why is it occurring? Is it societital, environmental, genetic?
Better services for those who are mentally ill and more access to services.
Stricter penalty for Pshychatrists who just push pills and are nothing more then highly educated, well paid, legalized drug dealers. There needs to be mandatory therapy in conjunction with these drugs. Many were never tested for long term use but were to be used under a trained doctor's supervision along with other forms of mental health therapies.
More services for families such as parenting classes. Yes bad kids happen to good parents but many times even those parents struggle with what to do.
We need long term care facilities as well. There are people who just do not have a place in civilized society.
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Posted 12/18/12 12:29 PM  |
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MsKlutz
LIF Zygote
Member since 9/12 11 total posts
Name:
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Re: Mental Health Reform
I totally agree with mental health reform. I think one of the biggest problems are psychiatric medications. I know a lot of people on meds for their mental health issues and half the time the meds just aren't right for them or they really don't need to be medicated.
A friend of mine was hospitalized twice due to suicidal thoughts/threats while on one medicine. While in the hospital, the physician changed her meds, but as soon as she went back to her regular doctor, he put her right back on the same meds that made her suicidal (saying she just didn't give them enough time to work). She ended up back in the hospital after attempting suicide because that medicine just wasn't right for her.
An ex-bf of mine years ago almost killed me in a psychotic episode brought on by a new medicine that was prescribed to him as an anti-depressant. That medicine made him homicidal and suicidal. I did some research after that and it turns out that 75 people in the clinical trial attempted suicide while on the drug. How do these medicines get FDA approval with numbers like that?
I really think some of these Dr's just push pills as an easy solution to peoples problems. Life has it's ups and downs and people need to learn how to deal with it without taking pills.
I understand clinical depression is serious and some people do need to be medicated but I really think they are over prescribed. These are mood/mind altering drugs and that shouldn't be taken lightly.
Of course this is just my 2 cents from what I've experienced/seen.
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| Posted 12/18/12 1:44 PM |
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MrsFlatbread
Skinny jeans are in my future
Member since 6/06 10258 total posts
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Baby Momma
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Re: Mental Health Reform
Posted by MsKlutz
I totally agree with mental health reform. I think one of the biggest problems are psychiatric medications. I know a lot of people on meds for their mental health issues and half the time the meds just aren't right for them or they really don't need to be medicated.
A friend of mine was hospitalized twice due to suicidal thoughts/threats while on one medicine. While in the hospital, the physician changed her meds, but as soon as she went back to her regular doctor, he put her right back on the same meds that made her suicidal (saying she just didn't give them enough time to work). She ended up back in the hospital after attempting suicide because that medicine just wasn't right for her.
An ex-bf of mine years ago almost killed me in a psychotic episode brought on by a new medicine that was prescribed to him as an anti-depressant. That medicine made him homicidal and suicidal. I did some research after that and it turns out that 75 people in the clinical trial attempted suicide while on the drug. How do these medicines get FDA approval with numbers like that?
I really think some of these Dr's just push pills as an easy solution to peoples problems. Life has it's ups and downs and people need to learn how to deal with it without taking pills.
I understand clinical depression is serious and some people do need to be medicated but I really think they are over prescribed. These are mood/mind altering drugs and that shouldn't be taken lightly.
Of course this is just my 2 cents from what I've experienced/seen.
So you are saying that the two people you knew who were prescribed anti depressants, tried to commit suicide? And you are saying that the drugs made them suicidal rather than the fact they were depressed which is the reason why they were prescribed the drugs in the first place?
I have years of experience working in the mental health field and I can tell you that although some medications, have significant side effects, most of the positive effects outweigh the negative effects in most cases. People are able to live very productive lives as a result of some of the medication. I would caution anyone to place the blame on the medications alone. Ideas like this further the problem and prevent those that need medication and supports for mental illness from seeking the help they need.
Of course this is just my 2 cents based on my 15 plus years working in the field. ;)
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| Posted 12/18/12 3:47 PM |
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MsKlutz
LIF Zygote
Member since 9/12 11 total posts
Name:
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Re: Mental Health Reform
Posted by MrsFlatbread
So you are saying that the two people you knew who were prescribed anti depressants, tried to commit suicide? And you are saying that the drugs made them suicidal rather than the fact they were depressed which is the reason why they were prescribed the drugs in the first place?
I have years of experience working in the mental health field and I can tell you that although some medications, have significant side effects, most of the positive effects outweigh the negative effects in most cases. People are able to live very productive lives as a result of some of the medication. I would caution anyone to place the blame on the medications alone. Ideas like this further the problem and prevent those that need medication and supports for mental illness from seeking the help they need.
Of course this is just my 2 cents based on my 15 plus years working in the field. ;)
I know more then 2 people on anti-depressants. The 2 I gave specifics about though yes, both became suicidal and were hospitalized for it. Both after recently changing meds or beginning a new medicine. I didn't say they didn't have depression to begin with or weren't in need of some type of help, but to have to be hospitalized for behavior that wasn't typical for them makes me (and even their Dr's) suspect it was the medicine.
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| Posted 12/18/12 4:42 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9511 total posts
Name:
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Re: Mental Health Reform
Posted by MrsFlatbread
So you are saying that the two people you knew who were prescribed anti depressants, tried to commit suicide? And you are saying that the drugs made them suicidal rather than the fact they were depressed which is the reason why they were prescribed the drugs in the first place?
I have years of experience working in the mental health field and I can tell you that although some medications, have significant side effects, most of the positive effects outweigh the negative effects in most cases. People are able to live very productive lives as a result of some of the medication. I would caution anyone to place the blame on the medications alone. Ideas like this further the problem and prevent those that need medication and supports for mental illness from seeking the help they need.
Of course this is just my 2 cents based on my 15 plus years working in the field. ;)
Just out of curiosity though, have you ever actually been on anti depressants? I was prescribed an mild anti depressant by a psychiatrist that I saw ONCE. I was told that it was okay to drink alcohol while taking this medication which is kind of insane. I had a few incidents in which I acted completely out of control which I believe were the direct result of taking this medication. I would rather not get into it on a public chat board (although maybe it's time people like myself started being more open about these things), however, after one particularly bad incident I went off the medication cold turkey. Very soon after that I returned completely back to "normal." I have heard many stories similar to mine.
The fact that there is a disclaimer that teens and young adults may have increased thoughts of suicide while taking these drugs is reason enough to revisit whether the pros out weight the cons when dealing with young adults.
I have no doubt that some people benefit from these drugs, however the fact of the matter is that there are some very negative side effects when you give these medications to such young people. My personal believe is that it has something to do with not having enough body fat to digest the medication at the dosages prescribed but that's another whole debate.
Either way, unless you have personally experienced these negative side effects, I don't think that you can truly understand the problems these drugs can cause.
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| Posted 12/18/12 4:58 PM |
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MrsFlatbread
Skinny jeans are in my future
Member since 6/06 10258 total posts
Name:
Baby Momma
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Re: Mental Health Reform
Posted by lululu
Posted by MrsFlatbread
So you are saying that the two people you knew who were prescribed anti depressants, tried to commit suicide? And you are saying that the drugs made them suicidal rather than the fact they were depressed which is the reason why they were prescribed the drugs in the first place?
I have years of experience working in the mental health field and I can tell you that although some medications, have significant side effects, most of the positive effects outweigh the negative effects in most cases. People are able to live very productive lives as a result of some of the medication. I would caution anyone to place the blame on the medications alone. Ideas like this further the problem and prevent those that need medication and supports for mental illness from seeking the help they need.
Of course this is just my 2 cents based on my 15 plus years working in the field. ;)
Just out of curiosity though, have you ever actually been on anti depressants? I was prescribed an mild anti depressant by a psychiatrist that I saw ONCE. I was told that it was okay to drink alcohol while taking this medication which is kind of insane. I had a few incidents in which I acted completely out of control which I believe were the direct result of taking this medication. I would rather not get into it on a public chat board (although maybe it's time people like myself started being more open about these things), however, after one particularly bad incident I went off the medication cold turkey. Very soon after that I returned completely back to "normal." I have heard many stories similar to mine.
The fact that there is a disclaimer that teens and young adults may have increased thoughts of suicide while taking these drugs is reason enough to revisit whether the pros out weight the cons when dealing with young adults.
I have no doubt that some people benefit from these drugs, however the fact of the matter is that there are some very negative side effects when you give these medications to such young people. My personal believe is that it has something to do with not having enough body fat to digest the medication at the dosages prescribed but that's another whole debate.
Either way, unless you have personally experienced these negative side effects, I don't think that you can truly understand the problems these drugs can cause.
If you reread my response, I indicated that many of these medications have side effects, just as any medication would have for certain people. I never disputed that as it is a factual claim. However, I did respond to the original poster about medications being the cause of incidents such as this. Maybe Adam Lanza's mom heard someone state the same generalization about medication and discouraged it at home? Just food for thought.
We will never know really what was going through Adam's mind, however, we should not use this situation as a way to blame his mom or Autism or medications he was taking. We should learn from this tragedy to make improvements in whatever system we need to. Something failed this young man, his mother, those victims and us. We need to dedicate our energy to finding what it was and changing it so that it never happens again.
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| Posted 12/18/12 6:07 PM |
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Re: Mental Health Reform
I too have been working in the field for almost 15 years, with many different populations.
The biggest issues come down to mental health, regardless of population.
In the past, case managers would be able to work with agencies that were able to provide pre-pour nurses to go in and monitor a client's meds.
This service does not exist anymore.
We have to order blister packs from the pharmacy, and expect people who barely speak English or have a HS diploma to monitor that a client is taking their meds.
It's not a very good system.
If you only have straight Medicaid, your options for outpatient mental health services are also very limited.
Often it's a lengthy process to get into any clinic.
More often than not, your case needs to be reviewed before the agency will take you.
And if you are lucky to get in, you don't initially see the psychiatrist right away-----you have to meet with a social worker or psychologist for several sessions to do an intake.
That's all well and good but in the meantime, a client may not have access to meds. Sending them to the ER is a joke half the time.
As was mentioned, it can definitely be a process to find a med that works for many people.
Social workers, psychologists, nurses and other professional staff have the most knowledge of what is working and what is not working for their clients, yet, these positions get cut left and right. High needs people are turned over to direct care staff, or staff with less education/experience that do not have the knowledge or expertise to pick up on the fact that something is not right.
Add onto that, 1 person is often expected to oversee numerous high needs cases, where there have been psych issues since birth. Many times the client is the highest functioning of the group........as social workers we have to deal with family systems that are seriously out of whack, and it's family who often sabotage any kind of good we can do with our mentally ill client.
If there was a way to seperate certain clients from their family, we wouldn't have 1/2 the problems we run into these days.
Another HUGE problem is substance abuse.
It goes hand in hand with mental health issues.
The amount of people walking around Long Island who have a documented drug history, but are now on 3++++ pain meds that is just replacing one addicition with another, is astounding.
Housing is also the other issue as well that needs to be addressed.
Especially for people who have physical disabilities on top of everything else.
ETA: Many places that my clients have used over the years for mental health services do not have F/T psychiatrists which is another huge problem. Especially when you have someone who has trouble following through to begin with. "Sorry, Dr. so and so is only here on Fridays" or "You have to send them to X clinic" which is a zillion miles from their house, does not work for the average person in need of help.
Message edited 12/18/2012 6:46:02 PM.
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| Posted 12/18/12 6:40 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9511 total posts
Name:
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Re: Mental Health Reform
Posted by MrsFlatbread
If you reread my response, I indicated that many of these medications have side effects, just as any medication would have for certain people. I never disputed that as it is a factual claim. However, I did respond to the original poster about medications being the cause of incidents such as this. Maybe Adam Lanza's mom heard someone state the same generalization about medication and discouraged it at home? Just food for thought.
We will never know really what was going through Adam's mind, however, we should not use this situation as a way to blame his mom or Autism or medications he was taking. We should learn from this tragedy to make improvements in whatever system we need to. Something failed this young man, his mother, those victims and us. We need to dedicate our energy to finding what it was and changing it so that it never happens again.
I don't need to reread your response. I think my response was pretty appropriate. If you look at almost all of these mass shootings, the perpetrators were under the influence of anti-depressants or other anti anxiety drugs. Clearly this an indication that they were being treated for mental illness in some capicity. I would put a significant amount of money on it that Adam was on some type of medications as well. Until recently though, people that were suffering from mental illness did not go into schools full of children and start shooting. I believe that the rise in use of anti depressants among young adults might be a significant contributing factor to this change. I am not doubting that these drugs might help some people but if it causes one person to do what Adam Lanza just did, I'm not really sure it's worth it. I am sure we can come up with something better.
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| Posted 12/18/12 6:59 PM |
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LotsaLuv
Us
Member since 6/10 4094 total posts
Name:
F
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Re: Mental Health Reform
Posted by lululu
Posted by MrsFlatbread
If you reread my response, I indicated that many of these medications have side effects, just as any medication would have for certain people. I never disputed that as it is a factual claim. However, I did respond to the original poster about medications being the cause of incidents such as this. Maybe Adam Lanza's mom heard someone state the same generalization about medication and discouraged it at home? Just food for thought.
We will never know really what was going through Adam's mind, however, we should not use this situation as a way to blame his mom or Autism or medications he was taking. We should learn from this tragedy to make improvements in whatever system we need to. Something failed this young man, his mother, those victims and us. We need to dedicate our energy to finding what it was and changing it so that it never happens again.
I don't need to reread your response. I think my response was pretty appropriate. If you look at almost all of these mass shootings, the perpetrators were under the influence of anti-depressants or other anti anxiety drugs. Clearly this an indication that they were being treated for mental illness in some capicity. I would put a significant amount of money on it that Adam was on some type of medications as well. Until recently though, people that were suffering from mental illness did not go into schools full of children and start shooting. I believe that the rise in use of anti depressants among young adults might be a significant contributing factor to this change. I am not doubting that these drugs might help some people but if it causes one person to do what Adam Lanza just did, I'm not really sure it's worth it. I am sure we can come up with something better.
I have been saying this about Dr's Prescribing meds. Pop a pill for this, oh you feel this, ok pop a pill for that. Sure the pills help some people, but what about trying to work through things before prescribing this and that. A freind of mines son has been depressed forever, he is in his 30's, always on one med then thats not working so he switches to another, and so on and so on. I told her he should just get off them for a little to see how he feels without them. Once you are on these things for long enough then you think you need them for life, and I don't believe that.
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| Posted 12/18/12 9:19 PM |
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rsquared
Sweet P is here!
Member since 4/11 2026 total posts
Name:
R
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Re: Mental Health Reform
I work with children on the spectrum and with emotional and behavioral disabilities. There are students I work with who have lost services, have no long-term medication management, psych care, etc. They are on waiting lists for different agencies, getting emergency medication from one place, psychological and psychiatric services from other places or not at all. We are often left to just EMS the kid, over and over again, which does nothing except frustrate and alienate parents and scare kids.
I only know a small section of the mental health field, and what I have seen is scary. I am an educated, English-speaking professional and I can't figure out this system. I can't even imagine what these parents deal with, and many of them are not educated or English speakers, etc.
The field needs money. That is what it comes down to. They need money to provide programs or improve the ones they have. There are plenty of smart people working in mental health that care and want to help, but there are limited resources.
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| Posted 12/18/12 9:34 PM |
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LSP2005
Bunny kisses are so cute!
Member since 5/05 19458 total posts
Name:
L
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Re: Mental Health Reform
There absolutely needs to be a discussion on mental health services that our nation provides for its citizens. I wrote to my Congressmen about this issue (and gun control) today and urge you to make your voices heard as well. It is really important to speak up and tell your representatives how to vote. They are there to represent YOU. They are paid by YOU.
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| Posted 12/18/12 9:51 PM |
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Re: Mental Health Reform
Regular poster here who justed to post my 2 cents.
When I was younger, I started suffering from clinical depression. There were good reasons for my depression (bullying, issues at home, etc). I also had issues with anxiety. My family was concerned and took me to a psychiatrist who put me on an anti-depressant.
After a few weeks of being on it I became suicidal and paranoid. This wasnt my normal behavior. I was taken off of the meds and went back to my usual self after the drugs got out of my system.
There is a time and a place for medication, but its not the only answer. The reality is that there are plenty of doctors out there that push pills even if you are just a little depressed for good reason. These pills should be used if you have a chemical imbalance, not if you are sad because you are being tormented or if someone close to you dies. People need to learn coping skills, deal with reality, and stop being medicated just for the heck of it. Those people who need meds need to be properly ID'd and treated...but dont just send them on their way. Give talk therapy too (how do we know its working?), Give support to families, monitor dosing, make sure its being taken, and if need be, provide inpatient services outside of prisons!
This needs to stop. People out there need help, yet they arent getting it. This should be the FIRST measure to avoid tragedies like this, not the second, third, last, etc.
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| Posted 12/18/12 11:12 PM |
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MrsFlatbread
Skinny jeans are in my future
Member since 6/06 10258 total posts
Name:
Baby Momma
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Re: Mental Health Reform
Posted by LSP2005
There absolutely needs to be a discussion on mental health services that our nation provides for its citizens. I wrote to my Congressmen about this issue (and gun control) today and urge you to make your voices heard as well. It is really important to speak up and tell your representatives how to vote. They are there to represent YOU. They are paid by YOU.
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| Posted 12/19/12 5:37 AM |
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Re: Mental Health Reform
Posted by LSP2005
There absolutely needs to be a discussion on mental health services that our nation provides for its citizens. I wrote to my Congressmen about this issue (and gun control) today and urge you to make your voices heard as well. It is really important to speak up and tell your representatives how to vote. They are there to represent YOU. They are paid by YOU.
This is SO important. There are changes going on right now, especially for our poorest and disabled, where they are being put into Medicaid Managed Care plans.
I am seeing already the ramifications, as many psychiatrists do not take these plans, only "straight" Medicaid. The amount of psychiatrists who even take straight Medicaid is severely limited already and you all saw my rant above about clinics.
It's a huge PITA to get out of managed care plans once you are put on one.
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| Posted 12/19/12 7:45 AM |
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