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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
If you want to complain & start advocating against something in your school district, I'd start with attending your school board meetings & emailing your superintendent.
Posted by itsbabytime
It has become a way for crazy moms to achieve the ultimate competitive advantage for their children. I have no problem with a child with delays being held back. I have a problem when it is the over-achiever child - the child that is over-excelling in every area repeating Kindergarten in public school after going in private school.
I have never heard of anyone red-shirting because of a competitive advantage. It can certainly be a confidence builder initially but any advantage they may have fades after a few years.
There are many, many downfalls to being the overachieving child, particularly one that was deemed smart early on. They being to put an enormous amount of focus on being "right" or "smart" so much that they don't attempt anything they may fail.
For me, I don't have an issue with this. My friend held her eldest son back because she felt he was not emotionally ready for school & because he was very small compared to kids his own age. While I won't have & didn't do it for my kid, I really see no problem with the practice. My son complains that he's one of the youngest in his class (Sept birthday; cut off is December) but he'll get over it.
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Posted 5/6/13 9:56 AM  |
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Merf99
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 3380 total posts
Name:
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Isn't the issue though if they made it a July 31st cut off, you will still have parents who have June babies holding their kids back?
I held my DD - she has a late Oct bday. My district (in NJ) has a Dec 1 cut off, but almost every other district around us is an Oct 1 cut off. that said, private preschools have kids of all ages with that cut off. My DD entered kindergarten last year at 4, with a girl who turned 6 in August. But ya know what? Those parents must have had a reason to hold her back. I had DD repeat kindergarten because she wasn't ready to go to 1st grade - socially, emotionally, she has attention and focus issues.... so she was almost a year old than some of the kids in her class this year. Did it change anything with the other kids? Nope. Do the other kids even know? Nope. Is she running circles around them in gym and academically? Nope. So i really think that unless there's half of a class that is red-shirted it's not really going to make a difference in your life. There will always be a kid (despite the age) who is AMAZING at sports or a genius - they could be the youngest or oldest in the class!
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| Posted 5/6/13 11:21 AM |
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Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
My district (in NY, Putnam) only allows it for kids born after Nov 1 but before the cutoff of Dec 1. And they don't allow kids to begin early- I know someone whose twins just missed the cutoff and she felt they were ready and the district said no. I'm surprised to hear other districts have such an anything-goes policy and that it's changed so much. In the early 80s my mom wanted to keep my brother home an extra year (late Oct b'day, ADHD, maturity issues) and she was told no.
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| Posted 5/6/13 1:13 PM |
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mrswask
Pookie Love
Member since 5/05 20229 total posts
Name:
Michal
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
I'm in South Florida now and the cut-off date in my district is Sept 1st. Still seems odd to me because I'm used to all the fall birthdays being in the same grade, but it does make sense due to age starting kindergarten. Schools in my district usually start around August 19/20 so you may have a few kids starting K at 4, but they'll turn 5 in the next week and a half.
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| Posted 5/6/13 2:07 PM |
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jellybean78
:)
Member since 8/06 13103 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Honestly I don't get it. Why are parents making the call to red shirt? I could see red-shirting if you have a professional evaluation that your DC is not ready but just because you think so..I don't think that's right. Cut offs are a rule..why are some people allowed to not follow rules?
For me I would much rather try sending my kid to K and see how that works out first. It's amazing how much children mature in a school year. If the teacher thinks they're not ready to progress to 1st grade than by all means have them repeat K. To me that is a much better way.
DD started K at 4 (she's late November) and while she's probably not at the top of her class she does exceptionally well. I was never concerned with her being the youngest I would rather her be the youngest than the oldest but that is me. I have to say that I don't see much of it in DD's school but we are NYC DOE.
ETA: I wonder what the parents of these DCs who say their kids are not ready for K doing for them? Are they giving them services outside of the home or just keeping them home? I ask because schools offer so many services that often can jump start kids who fall behind not to mention the importance of socializing with other kids and having a schedule to follow.
Message edited 5/6/2013 2:15:14 PM.
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| Posted 5/6/13 2:11 PM |
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Jugglemom
LIF Adolescent
Member since 3/12 809 total posts
Name:
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by jellybean78
Honestly I don't get it. Why are parents making the call to red shirt? I could see red-shirting if you have a professional evaluation that your DC is not ready but just because you think so..I don't think that's right. Cut offs are a rule..why are some people allowed to not follow rules?
For me I would much rather try sending my kid to K and see how that works out first. It's amazing how much children mature in a school year. If the teacher thinks they're not ready to progress to 1st grade than by all means have them repeat K. To me that is a much better way.
DD started K at 4 (she's late November) and while she's probably not at the top of her class she does exceptionally well. I was never concerned with her being the youngest I would rather her be the youngest than the oldest but that is me. I have to say that I don't see much of it in DD's school but we are NYC DOE.
ETA: I wonder what the parents of these DCs who say their kids are not ready for K doing for them? Are they giving them services outside of the home or just keeping them home? I ask because schools offer so many services that often can jump start kids who fall behind not to mention the importance of socializing with other kids and having a schedule to follow.
I just want to clarify - I held my DD back and she went to Pre-k 4 that year. It was not a repeat for her as since her bday is late Dec she was in the 3/4 classroom the previous year. For me, maturity was a factor, yes but more than that I did nt feel that Kindergarten was developmentally appropriate for what is essentially a 4.5 year old. This was not a decision I came to lightly and one that I researched significantly. I think the cutoff dates are arbitrary and the fact the all the districts on long sland can't agree on a cutoff date, to me, is evidence of an arbitrary cutoff put in place with little regard to suitability.
In addition, in light of the iq testing etc. and other assessments that they are now doing in K - I feel even more strongly that it s not appropriate for the maturity level of a 4 year old.
I do not feel that I am above the rules but the district ies provide it as an option an ultimately, as the mother, I am responsible for my child's best interests even in an education environment. I will not blindly follow a rule that I feel is arbitrary.
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| Posted 5/6/13 5:09 PM |
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Goobster
:)
Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
Name:
:)
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by jellybean78
Honestly I don't get it. Why are parents making the call to red shirt? I could see red-shirting if you have a professional evaluation that your DC is not ready but just because you think so..I don't think that's right. Cut offs are a rule..why are some people allowed to not follow rules?
For me I would much rather try sending my kid to K and see how that works out first. It's amazing how much children mature in a school year. If the teacher thinks they're not ready to progress to 1st grade than by all means have them repeat K. To me that is a much better way.
DD started K at 4 (she's late November) and while she's probably not at the top of her class she does exceptionally well. I was never concerned with her being the youngest I would rather her be the youngest than the oldest but that is me. I have to say that I don't see much of it in DD's school but we are NYC DOE.
ETA: I wonder what the parents of these DCs who say their kids are not ready for K doing for them? Are they giving them services outside of the home or just keeping them home? I ask because schools offer so many services that often can jump start kids who fall behind not to mention the importance of socializing with other kids and having a schedule to follow.
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| Posted 5/6/13 7:39 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by jellybean78
ETA: I wonder what the parents of these DCs who say their kids are not ready for K doing for them? Are they giving them services outside of the home or just keeping them home? I ask because schools offer so many services that often can jump start kids who fall behind not to mention the importance of socializing with other kids and having a schedule to follow.
My friend made the decision with one son before he started so he did an extra year of pre-school. With her other son, the decision was made to have him repeat kindergarten.
I know it was a decision that she & her husband agonized over for awhile before coming to that decision. Speaking with his teachers & the pediatrician was the deciding factor.
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| Posted 5/6/13 7:45 PM |
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itsbabytime
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 9644 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by jellybean78
Honestly I don't get it. Why are parents making the call to red shirt? I could see red-shirting if you have a professional evaluation that your DC is not ready but just because you think so..I don't think that's right. Cut offs are a rule..why are some people allowed to not follow rules?
For me I would much rather try sending my kid to K and see how that works out first. It's amazing how much children mature in a school year. If the teacher thinks they're not ready to progress to 1st grade than by all means have them repeat K. To me that is a much better way.
DD started K at 4 (she's late November) and while she's probably not at the top of her class she does exceptionally well. I was never concerned with her being the youngest I would rather her be the youngest than the oldest but that is me. I have to say that I don't see much of it in DD's school but we are NYC DOE.
ETA: I wonder what the parents of these DCs who say their kids are not ready for K doing for them? Are they giving them services outside of the home or just keeping them home? I ask because schools offer so many services that often can jump start kids who fall behind not to mention the importance of socializing with other kids and having a schedule to follow.
The kids that I am referring to in this thread - what are they doing--- They ARE going to K - just at a private school...they are taking piano lessons and sports classes and having reading tutors etc. etc. And, then, they will do K again next yr at the public school.
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| Posted 5/6/13 7:46 PM |
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itsbabytime
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 9644 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by nrthshgrl
If you want to complain & start advocating against something in your school district, I'd start with attending your school board meetings & emailing your superintendent.
Posted by itsbabytime
It has become a way for crazy moms to achieve the ultimate competitive advantage for their children. I have no problem with a child with delays being held back. I have a problem when it is the over-achiever child - the child that is over-excelling in every area repeating Kindergarten in public school after going in private school.
I have never heard of anyone red-shirting because of a competitive advantage. It can certainly be a confidence builder initially but any advantage they may have fades after a few years.
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I do attend all the meetings already - I'm actually very involved in my school, class mom, parent council etc. That is part of how I see exactly what is going on so clearly ;) I have also already discussed this with the principal - particularly with respect to class placement next year. I asked if they take birth dates into account when placing the children in class rooms so as to not have an over abundance of older red shirted kids. he said they try but, these days the whole grade is older so by default you end up with "older" classes. He also said if the school *knows* a child has already completed K somewhere else he won't let them repeat but, I know sooooo many who do this so, there is clearly someone not being honest. This is honestly not the kind of thing I can be outspoken about at school meetings etc. because it is the super involved, hyper competitive moms that are doing this and they feel very strongly about it and I am not about to alienate people over this especially when my son is doing well. That said, I haven't addressed this with the superindentent but, lets be honest here, it's in the school districts best interest for things to continue like this - older kids do better on all these tests they have these days so what incentive do they have to put an end to it?
Can't believe you've never heard of this. People around here will actually tell you things like the majority of pro athletes are born in Jan or beginning of the year etc. Apparently there was also some book written about how kids with early birthdays are the ones that excel at everything...that is what these parents cite too - when they decide to "give their child the gift of time."
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| Posted 5/6/13 7:54 PM |
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itsbabytime
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 9644 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by jellybean78
Honestly I don't get it. Why are parents making the call to red shirt? I could see red-shirting if you have a professional evaluation that your DC is not ready but just because you think so..I don't think that's right. Cut offs are a rule..why are some people allowed to not follow rules?
For me I would much rather try sending my kid to K and see how that works out first. It's amazing how much children mature in a school year. If the teacher thinks they're not ready to progress to 1st grade than by all means have them repeat K. To me that is a much better way.
DD started K at 4 (she's late November) and while she's probably not at the top of her class she does exceptionally well. I was never concerned with her being the youngest I would rather her be the youngest than the oldest but that is me. I have to say that I don't see much of it in DD's school but we are NYC DOE.
ETA: I wonder what the parents of these DCs who say their kids are not ready for K doing for them? Are they giving them services outside of the home or just keeping them home? I ask because schools offer so many services that often can jump start kids who fall behind not to mention the importance of socializing with other kids and having a schedule to follow.
I just want to clarify - I held my DD back and she went to Pre-k 4 that year. It was not a repeat for her as since her bday is late Dec she was in the 3/4 classroom the previous year. For me, maturity was a factor, yes but more than that I did nt feel that Kindergarten was developmentally appropriate for what is essentially a 4.5 year old. This was not a decision I came to lightly and one that I researched significantly. I think the cutoff dates are arbitrary and the fact the all the districts on long sland can't agree on a cutoff date, to me, is evidence of an arbitrary cutoff put in place with little regard to suitability.
In addition, in light of the iq testing etc. and other assessments that they are now doing in K - I feel even more strongly that it s not appropriate for the maturity level of a 4 year old.
I do not feel that I am above the rules but the district ies provide it as an option an ultimately, as the mother, I am responsible for my child's best interests even in an education environment. I will not blindly follow a rule that I feel is arbitrary.
No one is arguing with you on this thread. In fact, I have said that the red-shirting going on is making it hard for parents like you to NOT hold their end of year birthday children back. I TOTALLY get it. that is why I am advocating an earlier cut off that can be STRICTLY enforced.
Also, not sure what you are referring to with iq testing and assessments? My DS has not had to do any iq testing? The most "assessments" he has had done are seeing if he knows letter sounds and basic basic reading 
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| Posted 5/6/13 7:58 PM |
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Karen
Just chillin'!!
Member since 1/06 9690 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Jugglemom
In addition, in light of the iq testing etc. and other assessments that they are now doing in K - I feel even more strongly that it s not appropriate for the maturity level of a 4 year old.
My DD is in K and there is absolutely no IQ testing or other type of assessments being done at this level. Perhaps this varies from district to district?
Her class does have reading groups, but I would not label that an "assessment" in the traditional sense.
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| Posted 5/6/13 8:43 PM |
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Jugglemom
LIF Adolescent
Member since 3/12 809 total posts
Name:
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Karen
Posted by Jugglemom
In addition, in light of the iq testing etc. and other assessments that they are now doing in K - I feel even more strongly that it s not appropriate for the maturity level of a 4 year old.
My DD is in K and there is absolutely no IQ testing or other type of assessments being done at this level. Perhaps this varies from district to district?
Her class does have reading groups, but I would not label that an "assessment" in the traditional sense.
Maybe it is just our district but my DD has had 3 computerized tests thus far. One of them being an iq test. The results of these tests were sent home via mail and we were given percentiles etc. the kids practiced in computer lab prior to taking the test because they had to use the computer as part of the test.
I really thought everyone did this - it seems that maybe only a few do it
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| Posted 5/6/13 8:54 PM |
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KarenK122
The Journey is the Destination
Member since 5/05 4431 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
I have never heard of a school testing like that in K and I live in a pretty competitive district. It must be a district thing because no standardized tests are given on the computer...as of yet.
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| Posted 5/6/13 9:47 PM |
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Goobster
:)
Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
Name:
:)
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by Karen
Posted by Jugglemom
In addition, in light of the iq testing etc. and other assessments that they are now doing in K - I feel even more strongly that it s not appropriate for the maturity level of a 4 year old.
My DD is in K and there is absolutely no IQ testing or other type of assessments being done at this level. Perhaps this varies from district to district?
Her class does have reading groups, but I would not label that an "assessment" in the traditional sense.
Maybe it is just our district but my DD has had 3 computerized tests thus far. One of them being an iq test. The results of these tests were sent home via mail and we were given percentiles etc. the kids practiced in computer lab prior to taking the test because they had to use the computer as part of the test.
I really thought everyone did this - it seems that maybe only a few do it
Not sure if you stated earlier, but is this LI? What district does this?
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| Posted 5/6/13 10:09 PM |
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Jugglemom
LIF Adolescent
Member since 3/12 809 total posts
Name:
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
I just looked up up the paperwork in my files. One of the tests is called the NWEA Test? I can't find the other test results of the other tests right now. I am so surprised no one else's child as had to take these tests.
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| Posted 5/6/13 10:11 PM |
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Jugglemom
LIF Adolescent
Member since 3/12 809 total posts
Name:
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Goobster
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by Karen
Posted by Jugglemom
In addition, in light of the iq testing etc. and other assessments that they are now doing in K - I feel even more strongly that it s not appropriate for the maturity level of a 4 year old.
My DD is in K and there is absolutely no IQ testing or other type of assessments being done at this level. Perhaps this varies from district to district?
Her class does have reading groups, but I would not label that an "assessment" in the traditional sense.
Maybe it is just our district but my DD has had 3 computerized tests thus far. One of them being an iq test. The results of these tests were sent home via mail and we were given percentiles etc. the kids practiced in computer lab prior to taking the test because they had to use the computer as part of the test.
I really thought everyone did this - it seems that maybe only a few do it
Not sure if you stated earlier, but is this LI? What district does this?
Yes, Long Island. I o not feel comfortable sharing the info publicly but you can fm me if you like.
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| Posted 5/6/13 10:13 PM |
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JDubs
different, not less
Member since 7/09 13160 total posts
Name:
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by mrswask
I'm in South Florida now and the cut-off date in my district is Sept 1st. Still seems odd to me because I'm used to all the fall birthdays being in the same grade, but it does make sense due to age starting kindergarten. Schools in my district usually start around August 19/20 so you may have a few kids starting K at 4, but they'll turn 5 in the next week and a half.
DH's aunt who lives in the tampa area was telling us about their schools' September 1st cutoff as well... although I don't have kids in school yet, this makes sense to me!
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| Posted 5/7/13 12:27 PM |
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iluvmynutty
Mom to E&M
Member since 12/08 1762 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Jugglemom
I just looked up up the paperwork in my files. One of the tests is called the NWEA Test? I can't find the other test results of the other tests right now. I am so surprised no one else's child as had to take these tests.
I wonder if you live in the SD where I work because this school year they have begun NWEA testing for K through 2nd because those grade levels don't have state testing.. They need some kind of standardized testing throughout the school year to show student progress for teacher evaluations (APPR). It's not IQ testing, just ELA and Math. Its a computer based test that our district is giving 3 times per year.
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| Posted 5/7/13 5:41 PM |
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Brandee
LIF Infant
Member since 12/07 233 total posts
Name:
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
I don't post much on here, but I came on Lifamilies because I am having such a tough time deciding whether or not to keep my son back a year. His birthday is at the end of September. I don't feel he is mature enough.
I came on here because I wanted see if anyone had regrets because the did send their child to kindergarten and had not waited a year.
My daughter is in kindergarten now. She is a December baby, she's doing great but I see the work she brings home. Will he be able to focus as well as she does on it? probably not, he'll still be 4 in school where she was almost 6. She has a 10 month advantage on him.
Roughly 42 states start by the end of summer, a few start Oct.16th but a majority of the states start September 1st. If so many states have changed the cut-off dates I'm surprised NY hasn't. It would make my decision to send my 4 year old to school so much easier. I'm surprised to hear NYC is not going to allow redshirting, I may be wrong but isn't their cut-off December 31st?
I spoke to 2 kindergarten teachers at the school, both strongly suggest Sept, Oct, & Nov. babies, especially boys, wait a year.
I understand why parents would be upset with redshirting. I know there are parents of children who are ready for kindergarten, but they want them to have an age advantage for sports and etc..but I am not one of them.
I am struggling with this decision. I don't think he's ready at all, but I feel such pressure to send him since the cut-off is Dec.1st. To me September 1st is ideal, all the kids will start at 5 and then IMO I don't think there would be as many parents red-shirting.
As you see I am still so confused on what to do. :( Hopefully I'll decide soon because kindergarten is right around the corner.
Message edited 5/13/2013 10:30:26 AM.
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| Posted 5/13/13 10:20 AM |
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stinger
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 4971 total posts
Name:
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT
I do not know about LI schools but my DD is in NYC where enrollment is by calendar year. She was born right at Christmastime so she is always going to be the youngest. I never considered holding her back but realize now that she would have been in the top of her class I had had the chance too. Her teacher has attributed some of her academic issues lack of maturity and admitted she is in the middle-top now but would have done better if I held her back. I didn't even know it was an option.
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| Posted 5/13/13 3:29 PM |
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nferrandi
too excited for words
Member since 10/05 18538 total posts
Name:
Nicole
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by Brandee
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I came on here because I wanted see if anyone had regrets because the did send their child to kindergarten and had not waited a year.
I sent my 4.5 year old DS to kindergarten. I did slightly question his maturity, but I knew academically he was ready. He's finishing up first grade now. Is he the most mature kid in class? Probably not. But he's also not the most immature. He has some focusing issues, but I honestly believe he would regardless of when he started school. He's in one of the highest reading groups in his grade and excels in math. He would have been bored senseless if I had held him back a year. And it's just a guess, but he probably would have more behavioral issues if he was left bored and unchallenged in school.
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| Posted 5/14/13 8:35 AM |
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Merf99
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 3380 total posts
Name:
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by nferrandi
Posted by Brandee
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I came on here because I wanted see if anyone had regrets because the did send their child to kindergarten and had not waited a year.
I sent my 4.5 year old DS to kindergarten. I did slightly question his maturity, but I knew academically he was ready. He's finishing up first grade now. Is he the most mature kid in class? Probably not. But he's also not the most immature. He has some focusing issues, but I honestly believe he would regardless of when he started school. He's in one of the highest reading groups in his grade and excels in math. He would have been bored senseless if I had held him back a year. And it's just a guess, but he probably would have more behavioral issues if he was left bored and unchallenged in school.
Sounds like your son was totally ready for first grade and didn't really matter his age. But I just wanted to add in that even if he did Kindergarten again, there's a good chance he wouldn't have been unchallenged and bored. My DD repeated kindergarten for a few issues that she had, and she has never ever been bored or unchallenged. The school actually put her in a more advanced class so this wouldn't happen, and her teacher told me that each student is given work at their individual level.
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| Posted 5/14/13 2:47 PM |
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KayVi10
LIF Zygote
Member since 2/13 14 total posts
Name:
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Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Of my three younger children, one of my daughters is a mid September baby and she started K at four and turned five a few weeks later.
My late October and November babies are starting at age five and will turn six a few months later. After much thought and consideration I'm not comfortable with them being 17 and heading off to college> I think the extra year becomes more important as they get older and need the maturity to make life decisions (dealing with peer pressure, sexual situations, college, driving and so on).
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| Posted 5/19/13 12:26 AM |
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MrsS2005
Mom of 3
Member since 11/05 13118 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: Redshirting/holding back - VENT.
Posted by jellybean78
For me I would much rather try sending my kid to K and see how that works out first. It's amazing how much children mature in a school year. If the teacher thinks they're not ready to progress to 1st grade than by all means have them repeat K. To me that is a much better way.
From what I've heard, having a child repeat K can be more damaging psychologically than waiting a year before starting K. Even at that age, kids can understand that they're friends are all moving onto 1st grade while they're still in K.
DS is a mid-December baby. Our cutoff is December 31st. I live in a competitive district in CT. I'm sure many parents are holding their summer and fall kids, especially sons, back from starting K. We just decided to register DS for K. He will be one of the youngest kids. He's small for his age. We have full day K in our district. His daycare/preschool class is a mix of 3-5 year olds so he has been with older kids before.
I definitely worry, but I know he's academically ready. He would absolutely be bored with another year of preschool. Our daycare has a private K class, but if he's ready, I'd rather send him to public school. I had lengthy discussions with his current and former teachers. They all felt he was ready for K. I just hope I made the right decision. It does bother me that there will be kids 18 months older than him, but there's nothing I can do about it. I just hope he's able to keep up and enjoys school.
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| Posted 5/19/13 10:40 AM |
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