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Tulip9
LIF Adolescent
Member since 2/14 597 total posts
Name:
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Re: How to handle employee...
I am always amazed when I post something on LIF- it never ceases to amaze me some of the responses. Like it seems a majority of people are so entitled- like I thought you had to "ask" for time off I never knew so many people who just "tell" their boss and that's it.
I treat my staff very well, and in return I expect honesty and respect - respect for myself and for their co- workers.
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Posted 11/4/19 3:44 PM  |
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LuckyStar
LIF Adult
Member since 7/14 7274 total posts
Name:
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Re: How to handle employee...
Posted by Tulip9
I am always amazed when I post something on LIF- it never ceases to amaze me some of the responses. Like it seems a majority of people are so entitled- like I thought you had to "ask" for time off I never knew so many people who just "tell" their boss and that's it.
I treat my staff very well, and in return I expect honesty and respect - respect for myself and for their co- workers.
I don’t think anyone argued that what your employee did was right. I think others may have just been more likely to overlook it.
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| Posted 11/4/19 4:00 PM |
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Re: How to handle employee...
Posted by LuckyStar
Posted by Tulip9
I am always amazed when I post something on LIF- it never ceases to amaze me some of the responses. Like it seems a majority of people are so entitled- like I thought you had to "ask" for time off I never knew so many people who just "tell" their boss and that's it.
I treat my staff very well, and in return I expect honesty and respect - respect for myself and for their co- workers.
I don’t think anyone argued that what your employee did was right. I think others may have just been more likely to overlook it.
I agree with LuckyStar. No one said it was right
But was it PTO/sick/vacation time? If she has sick time and she called out sick, even if it was the same day for the past 4 years, then she is entitled, even if it is bu11shit, you know?
I also always take Halloween off. But I have days. In fact, I have 7 days left and I can't take fridays or Christmas week
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| Posted 11/4/19 4:34 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: How to handle employee...
Posted by MrsS2005
Posted by Mill188
Posted by MrsS2005
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by Bonsai
What am I missing? Who cares. My employee always calls in for her bday. Maybe she feels silly taking off for a Halloween.
So take a vacation day. don't call out sick four years in a row!!!
The big deal is when an employee calls out unexpectedly , it effects the entire staff for the day. If she has the day scheduled, management has a chance to prepare for the day in advance.
I take it you don’t own a business. You’d understand the difference
Based upon some of the responses, I get the feeling that they either don’t own a business or aren’t in a role where they deal with these issues.
Assuming that this employer doesn’t have PTO time, which can generally be used for any reason, sick time is supposed to be used when sick not when someone feels like taking a day off with little to no notice. It can put a strain on the office and impact planning, etc. If an employer intended people to use up the time every year regardless of whether they were sick, it would be a PTO benefit not split up among sick time, vacation time and possibly personal days. Regardless of whether the person takes off one “holiday” or a birthday, it should be requested as a vacation day not a last minute sick day. I think that’s inconsiderate and if the employee does this each year, it should be addressed.
I manage a very small department. Trust me when one of us is out whether expected or not it is a big deal. However, my firm does not allow us to carry over or be paid out for sick time. Therefore I will take every day I am entitled to - whether sick or not. We also get vacation and personal days. Vacation days must be scheduled in advance. Personal days do not. I would never begrudge any of my employees a day off whether scheduled or not. Happy employees are more productive employees. Hey I take off every year for my birthday. Some years I schedule it some years I use a sick or personal day. My supervisor expects it each year and plans accordingly.
Again, if your employer intended them to be use or lose days, it would be PTO not sick time. Sick time is essentially an insurance policy: there if you need the time, but shouldn’t be used if you’re not sick. Despite your personal opinion on the subject, you’re not entitled to use them if you’re not sick. If you could use them for whatever reason, they wouldn’t be characterized as sick days.
Yep I agree with this.
I am rarely ever sick. Which means I have about 4 months worth of unused sick time that has rolled over over the years. If I planned to have another baby, it would be great.
If God Forbid I had a long illness or injury, it's there, just in case.
But I can't just use them for a trip around the world or a sabbatical just because they are there.
Hence why my company still differentiates between sick, personal and vacation days.
Message edited 11/4/2019 4:37:05 PM.
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| Posted 11/4/19 4:36 PM |
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Re: How to handle employee...
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by MrsS2005
Posted by Mill188
Posted by MrsS2005
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by Bonsai
What am I missing? Who cares. My employee always calls in for her bday. Maybe she feels silly taking off for a Halloween.
So take a vacation day. don't call out sick four years in a row!!!
The big deal is when an employee calls out unexpectedly , it effects the entire staff for the day. If she has the day scheduled, management has a chance to prepare for the day in advance.
I take it you don’t own a business. You’d understand the difference
Based upon some of the responses, I get the feeling that they either don’t own a business or aren’t in a role where they deal with these issues.
Assuming that this employer doesn’t have PTO time, which can generally be used for any reason, sick time is supposed to be used when sick not when someone feels like taking a day off with little to no notice. It can put a strain on the office and impact planning, etc. If an employer intended people to use up the time every year regardless of whether they were sick, it would be a PTO benefit not split up among sick time, vacation time and possibly personal days. Regardless of whether the person takes off one “holiday” or a birthday, it should be requested as a vacation day not a last minute sick day. I think that’s inconsiderate and if the employee does this each year, it should be addressed.
I manage a very small department. Trust me when one of us is out whether expected or not it is a big deal. However, my firm does not allow us to carry over or be paid out for sick time. Therefore I will take every day I am entitled to - whether sick or not. We also get vacation and personal days. Vacation days must be scheduled in advance. Personal days do not. I would never begrudge any of my employees a day off whether scheduled or not. Happy employees are more productive employees. Hey I take off every year for my birthday. Some years I schedule it some years I use a sick or personal day. My supervisor expects it each year and plans accordingly.
Again, if your employer intended them to be use or lose days, it would be PTO not sick time. Sick time is essentially an insurance policy: there if you need the time, but shouldn’t be used if you’re not sick. Despite your personal opinion on the subject, you’re not entitled to use them if you’re not sick. If you could use them for whatever reason, they wouldn’t be characterized as sick days.
Yep I agree with this.
I am rarely ever sick. Which means I have about 4 months worth of unused sick time that has rolled over over the years. If I planned to have another baby, it would be great.
If God Forbid I had a long illness or injury, it's there, just in case.
But I can't just use them for a trip around the world or a sabbatical just because they are there.
Hence why my company still differentiates between sick, personal and vacation days.
It's funny, my job does too UNTIL the end of year because we can't roll them over or get paid for them, so they just become 'days' and we can take them however we want
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| Posted 11/4/19 4:51 PM |
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hmm
Sweet
Member since 1/14 7993 total posts
Name:
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How to handle employee...
I dont see why it's such an issue. People are allowed to call out for a day. If she normally comes to work and performs her job well. If you feel the need to say something, mention you noticed she takes off every Halloween maybe ask if there is a reason why a call out and not a request for off
I dont see this as being disrespectful to you. Why does it feel like she is being disrespectful?
Message edited 11/4/2019 7:06:29 PM.
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| Posted 11/4/19 7:04 PM |
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Momma2015
Mommax2
Member since 12/12 6656 total posts
Name:
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Re: How to handle employee...
Posted by Tulip9
I am always amazed when I post something on LIF- it never ceases to amaze me some of the responses. Like it seems a majority of people are so entitled- like I thought you had to "ask" for time off I never knew so many people who just "tell" their boss and that's it.
I treat my staff very well, and in return I expect honesty and respect - respect for myself and for their co- workers.
But the thing is your employees are ENTITLED to their time off. This really grinds my gears with my job. At my last review my manager mentioned that I take too much time off and I was taken aback and asked "OMG Did I go over my allotted vacation/sick time and not realize it?" And she said no.  WTF? Why give us these days to use and expect us not to use them? So it looks nice on paper? And in my department where coverage is vital if someone is out, if we all waited to ask politely and take our time off when it was convenient for our office/manager, then we'd lose a hell of a lot of days as we can only accrue up to a certain number.
In this case, I understand part of your frustration that she wasn't up front when it seems like she was planning all along, for years even, to consistently take this day off, but I don't understand why you seem to take it so personally, as if her calling in is a comment on how you manage your office.
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| Posted 11/5/19 3:55 AM |
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jlm2008
LIF Adult
Member since 1/10 5092 total posts
Name:
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Re: How to handle employee...
Posted by Momma2015
Posted by Tulip9
I am always amazed when I post something on LIF- it never ceases to amaze me some of the responses. Like it seems a majority of people are so entitled- like I thought you had to "ask" for time off I never knew so many people who just "tell" their boss and that's it.
I treat my staff very well, and in return I expect honesty and respect - respect for myself and for their co- workers.
But the thing is your employees are ENTITLED to their time off. This really grinds my gears with my job. At my last review my manager mentioned that I take too much time off and I was taken aback and asked "OMG Did I go over my allotted vacation/sick time and not realize it?" And she said no. WTF? Why give us these days to use and expect us not to use them? So it looks nice on paper? And in my department where coverage is vital if someone is out, if we all waited to ask politely and take our time off when it was convenient for our office/manager, then we'd lose a hell of a lot of days as we can only accrue up to a certain number.
In this case, I understand part of your frustration that she wasn't up front when it seems like she was planning all along, for years even, to consistently take this day off, but I don't understand why you seem to take it so personally, as if her calling in is a comment on how you manage your office.
But you are supposed to take sick days when you are sick, not because you are entitled to it You aren't entitled to it, it'a nice accommodation that is made by the company. And trust me, I've definitely called out sick when I'm not...I'm a firm believer in mental health days. But as an adult, you have to be judicious in it. A company wouldn't differentiate between sick, vacation and personal if they expected you to take all of it. IMO, it should all just be PTO to use as you wish! So much easier.
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| Posted 11/5/19 4:34 AM |
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Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3073 total posts
Name:
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Re: How to handle employee...
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by Momma2015
Posted by Tulip9
I am always amazed when I post something on LIF- it never ceases to amaze me some of the responses. Like it seems a majority of people are so entitled- like I thought you had to "ask" for time off I never knew so many people who just "tell" their boss and that's it.
I treat my staff very well, and in return I expect honesty and respect - respect for myself and for their co- workers.
But the thing is your employees are ENTITLED to their time off. This really grinds my gears with my job. At my last review my manager mentioned that I take too much time off and I was taken aback and asked "OMG Did I go over my allotted vacation/sick time and not realize it?" And she said no. WTF? Why give us these days to use and expect us not to use them? So it looks nice on paper? And in my department where coverage is vital if someone is out, if we all waited to ask politely and take our time off when it was convenient for our office/manager, then we'd lose a hell of a lot of days as we can only accrue up to a certain number.
In this case, I understand part of your frustration that she wasn't up front when it seems like she was planning all along, for years even, to consistently take this day off, but I don't understand why you seem to take it so personally, as if her calling in is a comment on how you manage your office.
But you are supposed to take sick days when you are sick, not because you are entitled to it You aren't entitled to it, it'a nice accommodation that is made by the company. And trust me, I've definitely called out sick when I'm not...I'm a firm believer in mental health days. But as an adult, you have to be judicious in it. A company wouldn't differentiate between sick, vacation and personal if they expected you to take all of it. IMO, it should all just be PTO to use as you wish! So much easier.
Our sick time is part of our PTO benefit package. The reason it is segregated out is to accommodate the various laws for our satellite offices where we need to provide sick time before an employee would be eligible for vacation and/or personal days. All of our PTO is segregated for this reason. There is also a difference in scheduling. Personal and sick days can be used without notice. Vacation days must be scheduled 30 days in advance. Our sick and personal time is use it or lose it and renews each year. Our vacation days can be carried over up to a certain amount.
Listen I get a lot of time off (over 46 PTO days all combined) but I earn each and every one of them. I will absolutely call in sick when I'm not sick (I rarely am). If we are out more than 3 sick days, we need a doctor's note and fitness for duty form which ensure there's no abuse of it.
It's called work - not volunteer. When I am there, I am a diligent, hardworking employee often working over 60 hours a week (I am an exempt employee and do not get paid overtime). I will take each and every day I have earned. I'm WORKING - not VOLUNTEERING there. I work there for my pay check, and they employ me because they like the job I do - it's business.
And yes, my company expects and encourages all of its employees to use all of their time off. As a matter of fact, in the first week of September every year, we all get reminder notices about how much time we have left for the year, the number of days that are use or lose (including sick time), and the number of days allowed to be carried over (if any).
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| Posted 11/5/19 5:26 AM |
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MrsS2005
Mom of 3
Member since 11/05 13118 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: How to handle employee...
Posted by Mill188
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by Momma2015
Posted by Tulip9
I am always amazed when I post something on LIF- it never ceases to amaze me some of the responses. Like it seems a majority of people are so entitled- like I thought you had to "ask" for time off I never knew so many people who just "tell" their boss and that's it.
I treat my staff very well, and in return I expect honesty and respect - respect for myself and for their co- workers.
But the thing is your employees are ENTITLED to their time off. This really grinds my gears with my job. At my last review my manager mentioned that I take too much time off and I was taken aback and asked "OMG Did I go over my allotted vacation/sick time and not realize it?" And she said no. WTF? Why give us these days to use and expect us not to use them? So it looks nice on paper? And in my department where coverage is vital if someone is out, if we all waited to ask politely and take our time off when it was convenient for our office/manager, then we'd lose a hell of a lot of days as we can only accrue up to a certain number.
In this case, I understand part of your frustration that she wasn't up front when it seems like she was planning all along, for years even, to consistently take this day off, but I don't understand why you seem to take it so personally, as if her calling in is a comment on how you manage your office.
But you are supposed to take sick days when you are sick, not because you are entitled to it You aren't entitled to it, it'a nice accommodation that is made by the company. And trust me, I've definitely called out sick when I'm not...I'm a firm believer in mental health days. But as an adult, you have to be judicious in it. A company wouldn't differentiate between sick, vacation and personal if they expected you to take all of it. IMO, it should all just be PTO to use as you wish! So much easier.
Our sick time is part of our PTO benefit package. The reason it is segregated out is to accommodate the various laws for our satellite offices where we need to provide sick time before an employee would be eligible for vacation and/or personal days. All of our PTO is segregated for this reason. There is also a difference in scheduling. Personal and sick days can be used without notice. Vacation days must be scheduled 30 days in advance. Our sick and personal time is use it or lose it and renews each year. Our vacation days can be carried over up to a certain amount.
Listen I get a lot of time off (over 46 PTO days all combined) but I earn each and every one of them. I will absolutely call in sick when I'm not sick (I rarely am). If we are out more than 3 sick days, we need a doctor's note and fitness for duty form which ensure there's no abuse of it.
It's called work - not volunteer. When I am there, I am a diligent, hardworking employee often working over 60 hours a week (I am an exempt employee and do not get paid overtime). I will take each and every day I have earned. I'm WORKING - not VOLUNTEERING there. I work there for my pay check, and they employ me because they like the job I do - it's business.
And yes, my company expects and encourages all of its employees to use all of their time off. As a matter of fact, in the first week of September every year, we all get reminder notices about how much time we have left for the year, the number of days that are use or lose (including sick time), and the number of days allowed to be carried over (if any).
What state or federal laws govern vacation time? Those benefits are governed by Company policy. I highly doubt most companies that segregate benefits into sick, vacation and personal time want and expect employees to take sick time when they’re not sick. I assume most companies also have a sick time policy that spells out the expectations on using the time. If the intention was to use all of the time each year, then it should be PTO. Companies can still have a policy setting limits on how many last minute PTO days can be taken vs. requesting the time off, but why have designated sick time if it can be taken last minute for any reason regardless of whether the employee is sick?
Aside from jobs as a teenager or college student, I’ve always been an exempt employee and generally had use or lose sick time benefits. I’ve never considered them something I’m entitled to take and should use up each year even if I’m not sick or taking care of a sick child. Yes, they’re part of a benefits package, but they have a specific purpose. Sick time is not an entitlement to take a day off whenever someone doesn’t feel like working.
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| Posted 11/5/19 4:12 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: How to handle employee...
I just checked. I have 480 hours of sick time sitting in the bank. Damn, I better book a trip or something!
I also just checked the company handbook because I was curious. It said sick days are to be used for illness or to care for an ill family member (so I guess if your kid is sick that's a good thing) and anything more than 3 consecutive sick days could require a doctor's note.
And it says nothing about using a sick day on Halloween, All Souls Day or National Taco Day.
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| Posted 11/5/19 4:23 PM |
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jlm2008
LIF Adult
Member since 1/10 5092 total posts
Name:
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Re: How to handle employee...
Posted by NervousNell
I just checked. I have 480 hours of sick time sitting in the bank. Damn, I better book a trip or something!
I also just checked the company handbook because I was curious. It said sick days are to be used for illness or to care for an ill family member (so I guess if your kid is sick that's a good thing) and anything more than 3 consecutive sick days could require a doctor's note.
And it says nothing about using a sick day on Halloween, All Souls Day or National Taco Day.
No way????!!!!! But you are ENTITLED to National Taco day off!!!! After all, you have graciously offered to work for your company. 
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| Posted 11/5/19 5:58 PM |
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Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3073 total posts
Name:
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Re: How to handle employee...
Actually NYC and Westchester County require sick days be provided to employees. In addition many foreign countries have different mandates for vacation and personal time and my firm has offices and affiliates across NYS and world wide. Before we expanded/merged we just had it all lumped into one PTO bank. Our time was split into these categories on purpose to make it easier for compliance in all of our offices.
We are granted other paid days off that are not a pto benefit but rather an “insurance” policy such as bereavement, jury duty, litigation witness, etc.
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| Posted 11/5/19 7:35 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: How to handle employee...
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by NervousNell
I just checked. I have 480 hours of sick time sitting in the bank. Damn, I better book a trip or something!
I also just checked the company handbook because I was curious. It said sick days are to be used for illness or to care for an ill family member (so I guess if your kid is sick that's a good thing) and anything more than 3 consecutive sick days could require a doctor's note.
And it says nothing about using a sick day on Halloween, All Souls Day or National Taco Day.
No way????!!!!! But you are ENTITLED to National Taco day off!!!! After all, you have graciously offered to work for your company.
I know right? I have graced them with my daily presence after all and I'm a constant effing joy so.....
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| Posted 11/5/19 7:50 PM |
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LuckyStar
LIF Adult
Member since 7/14 7274 total posts
Name:
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Re: How to handle employee...
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by NervousNell
I just checked. I have 480 hours of sick time sitting in the bank. Damn, I better book a trip or something!
I also just checked the company handbook because I was curious. It said sick days are to be used for illness or to care for an ill family member (so I guess if your kid is sick that's a good thing) and anything more than 3 consecutive sick days could require a doctor's note.
And it says nothing about using a sick day on Halloween, All Souls Day or National Taco Day.
No way????!!!!! But you are ENTITLED to National Taco day off!!!! After all, you have graciously offered to work for your company.
I know right? I have graced them with my daily presence after all and I'm a constant effing joy so.....
Not to mention we all know you in particular partake in all social media high holidays
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| Posted 11/5/19 8:01 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: How to handle employee...
Exactly. I already put my boss on notice that I need off on National Metal Day. (It's Nov 11th and a real day, yes)
If he says no, I'm totally using up some of my 400 hours of sick time and calling in!
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| Posted 11/5/19 8:23 PM |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10312 total posts
Name:
fka LIW Smara
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Re: How to handle employee...
Posted by NervousNell
Exactly. I already put my boss on notice that I need off on National Metal Day. (It's Nov 11th and a real day, yes)
If he says no, I'm totally using up some of my 400 hours of sick time and calling in!
Well I’m already off 11/11 for Veterans Day lol.
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| Posted 11/5/19 8:57 PM |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10312 total posts
Name:
fka LIW Smara
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Re: How to handle employee...
Posted by Tulip9
I am always amazed when I post something on LIF- it never ceases to amaze me some of the responses. Like it seems a majority of people are so entitled- like I thought you had to "ask" for time off I never knew so many people who just "tell" their boss and that's it.
I treat my staff very well, and in return I expect honesty and respect - respect for myself and for their co- workers.
That mentality is the problem with employers today and why employees are overworked or mentally drained. Your mentality that a employee needs to ask permission is the exact reason why people use sick days as personal days to call out. It’s not being entitled to command respect. Everyone should be respected equally regardless if you are a manager or direct report. I am not in the military and don’t expect my employees to have to ask permission for time off. Give me notice, yes, permission know. It’s your time that the company has given you. Now I’ve Managed teams where there was a busy time or there had to be coverage. However, they were adult enough to plan and discuss amongst each other who was taking PTO when. That’s how you avoid a hostile work environment.
Calling employees entitled because they simply letting you know they are taking off is a fine line into becoming a Theory X type manager. For managers who don’t know this theory, research McGregor Theory x y. I learned it when I was studying for my PMP cert and it always stuck with me.
Message edited 11/6/2019 8:27:54 AM.
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| Posted 11/6/19 8:26 AM |
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SusiBee
. . . . .
Member since 3/09 8268 total posts
Name:
S
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Re: How to handle employee...
Posted by LuckyStar
Posted by Tulip9
I am always amazed when I post something on LIF- it never ceases to amaze me some of the responses. Like it seems a majority of people are so entitled- like I thought you had to "ask" for time off I never knew so many people who just "tell" their boss and that's it.
I treat my staff very well, and in return I expect honesty and respect - respect for myself and for their co- workers.
I don’t think anyone argued that what your employee did was right. I think others may have just been more likely to overlook it.
Agreed.
The reason that I "tell" my bosses that I will be taking off is because I work for Japanese, and although I have a set amount of PTO, their culture views it negatively if time is taken off. 
I put in for my PTO in January, especially the two weeks I take in July for vacation. 99% of my time off is planned way in advance.
That the employee calls in every year on Halloween is wrong. Perhaps you can have a conversation with her about it, mentioning that it puts everyone else in a bind if she calls in, especially if someone else already has the day off. It would be better if she just plan it instead.
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| Posted 11/6/19 9:20 AM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: How to handle employee...
Posted by SusiBee
That the employee calls in every year on Halloween is wrong. Perhaps you can have a conversation with her about it, mentioning that it puts everyone else in a bind if she calls in, especially if someone else already has the day off. It would be better if she just plan it instead.
I agree with this. I don't micromanage at all and I'm very lax with things, but if it's putting everyone in a bind because others are requesting off through the proper channels and then she calls in sick and now there isn't enough coverage, I'd definitely have a conversation with her.
I'd just say it's been noticed that she always calls in sick on the same day for this many years and you dont' have a problem with her needing that day off but can she please just put in for it in advance so that you can plan coverage better.
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| Posted 11/6/19 9:23 AM |
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LInMI
LIF Adult
Member since 7/10 1800 total posts
Name:
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Re: How to handle employee...
Does she have the vacation/sick days available? If so, it shouldn't matter when she calls out.
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| Posted 11/6/19 10:16 AM |
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LInMI
LIF Adult
Member since 7/10 1800 total posts
Name:
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Re: How to handle employee...
Posted by Mill188
Does she have available sick days? In my job we get 6 sick days a year. We can’t bank them and carry them forward. So everyone tends to get sick at the end of the year. We do not need to provide a doctors note until we are out 3 or more days. If management has a problem with people calling in sick towards the end of the year they would change their policy.
I don’t see anything wrong with it. Our sick days are part of our PTO.
agreed!
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| Posted 11/6/19 10:19 AM |
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