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Epeebes
Easy Peasy!
Member since 11/07 1428 total posts
Name:
Epeebes
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Posted by happytobreathe
Posted by Epeebes
Posted by Erica
Posted by Epeebes
Silly question but whats RTI?
RTI= Response to Intervention. All NYS schools have to have a model implemented by 2012, but my SD (and others around us) are already using this model
RTI
When you say Level A books. do you mean Fountas and Pinnell? If you are using F&P, have you assessed the students. That would give you more of an idea about where the students are in their reading and maybe some data that you can use to back up your grading.
Thank you for the RTI info.
See here's the thing with my school. Since we are a private school we don't follow much of what NYS mandates, which I partially think is a disservice sometimes to the kids. We are also IMO severely unresourced and use very outdated materials. I actually had to purchase most of my books, teaching guides and materials. With this said the teachers teach very old school, I am the ONLY certified teacher in the school (but we are very small) and I am the one trying to overhaul and everyone else with the times so to speak. My principal is on board with all this BUT doesn't realize it takes a lot of money to putnew programs into place.
I could literally go on and on about what needs to be fixed at my school....
Yes I use F&P leveled books. But I don't have ANY assessment tools yet, since I wasn't expecting K students to read just yet, so I have to get on the ball with that and figure out how to get some.
We are allowed to teach how we want in my school there's no official guidelines persay. Its frustrating becuase there's little structure unless as the teacher you make it yourself.
Sry that the response was long but I hope it gave you an idea of what I'm dealing with, and how I'm working with it.
If you need books--- I can let you borrow some for now! Let me know!
Borrow what kinds of books? If its ones for the kids to read I would be nervous becuase they sometimes can destroy things and I'd hate to be responsible for it but thank you! 
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Posted 11/18/09 9:32 PM  |
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MrsH2009
Thank you St. Gerard!
Member since 8/09 6631 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Posted by InShock
I have to say, I'm VERY curious about what you expect of Kindergarteners in terms of spelling, reading, and math.
IMO, letter grades aren't even appropriate for primary grades, but I guess that's neither here nor there since clearly that's what your school does.
Are the parents aware that their children are "failing"?
I guess I'm really just trying to wrap my head around "failing" Kindergarteners. 
I taught 8 years in public school and 2 now in private, I have never heard of letter grades for K, and certainly not percantages. Acutally, I've never seen letter grades until 3rd grade.
ETA: I don't think anything on the report card should be a surprise. If there is a concern, parents should have been notified before hand.
Message edited 11/19/2009 1:09:05 PM.
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| Posted 11/19/09 1:07 PM |
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happytobreathe
The Lazy Days of Summer
Member since 10/06 1413 total posts
Name:
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
You should also look at the standards for kindergarten online. It might be that the expectations are too high.
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| Posted 11/19/09 4:57 PM |
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MrsYank
She's here :)
Member since 4/07 3238 total posts
Name:
Mrs. Yank
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
What have YOU done before this to alert the parents that they were "failing". Extra help? Progress monitoring? Modifying lessons to their learning style?
Also how do you have no idea about RTI? Didn't you work in NYC before this school? RTI has been there way before it has made it out the the island.
Lastly - children are not defined by their disability.
i.e "is slightly autistic" or "is autistic" Either they have autism or a mild form of it. Sorry it makes me cringe!
ETA: This is the PRIME definition of the "wait-to-fail" method
ETA again Level A is not First Grade it is kindergarten.
Message edited 11/23/2009 4:21:18 PM.
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| Posted 11/23/09 4:17 PM |
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Epeebes
Easy Peasy!
Member since 11/07 1428 total posts
Name:
Epeebes
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Posted by MrsYank
What have YOU done before this to alert the parents that they were "failing". Extra help? Progress monitoring? Modifying lessons to their learning style?
Also how do you have no idea about RTI? Didn't you work in NYC before this school? RTI has been there way before it has made it out the the island.
Lastly - children are not defined by their disability.
i.e "is slightly autistic" or "is autistic" Either they have autism or a mild form of it. Sorry it makes me cringe!
ETA: This is the PRIME definition of the "wait-to-fail" method
ETA again Level A is not First Grade it is kindergarten.
Parents were actually notified beforehand that there child is not making adequate progress therefore needing one-on-one resource time. Which they started receiving 4 weeks before Report Cards. I modify lessons however I can, but let's be honest there's only so much time a teacher can spend helping a student and if they just aren't getting it then what? Pass them just because?
Just because I worked in NYC for one year doesn't mean I know everything that's out there. So no i didn't know about RTI. And being that were I worked was a low-supporting school in terms of getting information from admin to teachers.
This particular student of mine I actually talk to the parent just about EVERYDAY because they are very involved. He tries to work with his son at home just as much as I work with him at school.
I NEVER said children are defined by their disability. I'm just trying to get more information as to maybe how I can accommodate a student who is as the PARENT stated to me "slightly autistic".
I do not have a special ed degree nor ever had any encounters with autistic children in my rather short teaching career.
I'm offended by the tone of your post.
I came on here looking for help, opinions and advice not to be attacked. Every school, class and teacher runs, learns and teaches differently. Support and resources are different in regards to admin and parents as well.
My understanding K is Levels A-C with the understanding that First is Levels A-I, being as some students don't even attend K (rare but does happen)
I'm not using a "wait to fail" method, what kind of teacher would I be if I did?
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| Posted 11/23/09 7:45 PM |
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MrsYank
She's here :)
Member since 4/07 3238 total posts
Name:
Mrs. Yank
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Posted by Epeebes
Parents were actually notified beforehand that there child is not making adequate progress therefore needing one-on-one resource time. Which they started receiving 4 weeks before Report Cards. I modify lessons however I can, but let's be honest there's only so much time a teacher can spend helping a student and if they just aren't getting it then what? Pass them just because?
Just because I worked in NYC for one year doesn't mean I know everything that's out there. So no i didn't know about RTI. And being that were I worked was a low-supporting school in terms of getting information from admin to teachers.
This particular student of mine I actually talk to the parent just about EVERYDAY because they are very involved. He tries to work with his son at home just as much as I work with him at school.
I NEVER said children are defined by their disability. I'm just trying to get more information as to maybe how I can accommodate a student who is as the PARENT stated to me "slightly autistic".
I do not have a special ed degree nor ever had any encounters with autistic children in my rather short teaching career.
I'm offended by the tone of your post.
I came on here looking for help, opinions and advice not to be attacked. Every school, class and teacher runs, learns and teaches differently. Support and resources are different in regards to admin and parents as well.
My understanding K is Levels A-C with the understanding that First is Levels A-I, being as some students don't even attend K (rare but does happen)
I'm not using a "wait to fail" method, what kind of teacher would I be if I did?
They are not "autistic children" they are "children with autism" you do not need a special ed degree to use terms appropriately.
My advice to you would be to scale down your "first grade" curriculum to "Kindergarten" as these students are of Kindergarten age. How can they be held accountable to master first grade skills when they don't have the necessary kindergarten ones? Even with your short teaching career, I am sure you have heard of scaffolding your instruction.
Are you providing these "failing" children with small group instruction everyday? i.e.- guided reading, double dose (if you use fundations) What tools are you using to show your interventions haven't worked?
ETA: A level "A" book from F&P is no way a first grade level. If you are using F&P leaving Kindergarten they are expected to be at a level 'D' leaving Kindergarten- and an 'I' when they enter 2nd grade.
Message edited 11/23/2009 8:35:39 PM.
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| Posted 11/23/09 8:32 PM |
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Epeebes
Easy Peasy!
Member since 11/07 1428 total posts
Name:
Epeebes
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Posted by MrsYank
Posted by Epeebes
Parents were actually notified beforehand that there child is not making adequate progress therefore needing one-on-one resource time. Which they started receiving 4 weeks before Report Cards. I modify lessons however I can, but let's be honest there's only so much time a teacher can spend helping a student and if they just aren't getting it then what? Pass them just because?
Just because I worked in NYC for one year doesn't mean I know everything that's out there. So no i didn't know about RTI. And being that were I worked was a low-supporting school in terms of getting information from admin to teachers.
This particular student of mine I actually talk to the parent just about EVERYDAY because they are very involved. He tries to work with his son at home just as much as I work with him at school.
I NEVER said children are defined by their disability. I'm just trying to get more information as to maybe how I can accommodate a student who is as the PARENT stated to me "slightly autistic".
I do not have a special ed degree nor ever had any encounters with autistic children in my rather short teaching career.
I'm offended by the tone of your post.
I came on here looking for help, opinions and advice not to be attacked. Every school, class and teacher runs, learns and teaches differently. Support and resources are different in regards to admin and parents as well.
My understanding K is Levels A-C with the understanding that First is Levels A-I, being as some students don't even attend K (rare but does happen)
I'm not using a "wait to fail" method, what kind of teacher would I be if I did?
They are not "autistic children" they are "children with autism" you do not need a special ed degree to use terms appropriately.
My advice to you would be to scale down your "first grade" curriculum to "Kindergarten" as these students are of Kindergarten age. How can they be held accountable to master first grade skills when they don't have the necessary kindergarten ones? Even with your short teaching career, I am sure you have heard of scaffolding your instruction.
Are you providing these "failing" children with small group instruction everyday? i.e.- guided reading, double dose (if you use fundations) What tools are you using to show your interventions haven't worked?
ETA: A level "A" book from F&P is no way a first grade level. If you are using F&P leaving Kindergarten they are expected to be at a level 'D' leaving Kindergarten- and an 'I' when they enter 2nd grade.
Sorry that I used the term incorrectly.
We use F&P just to level the books, we don't have most tools to properly use the program. Like I said my schools resources are severely outdated and limited and its frustrating. I know how to use and implement great reading programs but without the resources I stuck and use what I have to the best of my ability. Plus I've seen First grade students leaving the grade only reading a level D when I student taught at a great school 3 years ago.
I do mostly small group instruction in every lesson, and if I'm not I'm usually giving my 2 lower students that one-on-one support while the rest of the class completes their tasks. One student has improve drastically in the past two weeks where its very noticeable and I praise her for her effort and improvement. The other one has improved but only slightly. I'm still trying to figure out ways to better help him. If you have any suggestions. I'm open to hear them.
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| Posted 11/23/09 9:11 PM |
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donegal419
St. Gerard, pray for us.
Member since 7/07 7650 total posts
Name:
K
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Posted by Erica
I don't know about failing a kid in Kindergarten.
Have you brought these children to the IST?
are they young? Sometimes the kids that aren't 5 yet are just really immature and need a little more guidance. It's not their fault that their birthday fell when it did.
do you have other ways to judge participation? "Turn and talk" share with a partner. Have the partner share the other's idea.
Have you talked to the parents? what kind of action plans have you come up with?
With all the RTI talk, I would make sure you are fully covered before giving that F.
ita!
i am also curious how one can "fail" in kindergarten. yes, i know that kids can be below average at this age, but "failing" in kindergarten--- i don't know. (Itaught kindergarten and i had many kids that later qualified for services and i never "failed" them. i spoke with parents about their weaknesses, what we can do to address them, what needs to happen so they're ready for the reading and writing in first grade, etc.
are you actually giving formal assessments like tests and the like? at this age, IMO, it should be more child centered with games and play. you can still assess that way. they are still so young and still are learning through play and hands on activities rather than formal assessments.
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| Posted 11/28/09 11:21 AM |
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twicethefun
Loving life
Member since 7/06 4088 total posts
Name:
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
I am totally shocked. I mean as a parent of a kindergartener and as a teacher. I mean, seriously? An F in kindergarten? In spelling, math & reading? My son is in kindergarten and has not taken a single test (other than an informal assessment.) What types of tests are you giving? What type of spelling words are they expected to know? Just curious. If my kid got an F in kindergarten all hell would break loose. Just being honest here.
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| Posted 11/28/09 9:17 PM |
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juanvi
Get Out!
Member since 10/06 4463 total posts
Name:
Christina
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Posted by InShock
I have to say, I'm VERY curious about what you expect of Kindergarteners in terms of spelling, reading, and math.
IMO, letter grades aren't even appropriate for primary grades, but I guess that's neither here nor there since clearly that's what your school does.
Are the parents aware that their children are "failing"?
I guess I'm really just trying to wrap my head around "failing" Kindergarteners.
I have to say, I agree with this. Kindergarten? Were the parents aware before the students actually "failed". Once they get passed a certain grade I would say failing students because they didn't earn a passing grade is fine, but at a really young age, I feel it's hurting them rather than helping. they might get turned off to school all together.
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| Posted 11/30/09 7:18 PM |
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