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Epeebes
Easy Peasy!
Member since 11/07 1428 total posts
Name:
Epeebes
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How do you feel about failing kids?
I did my report cards last night and I failed 2 kids in math and spelling with F's and they got D's in Reading.
Granted its only Kindergarten, but I feel bad doing so, as if its my fault they weren't passing.
I spoke to a co-worker and she said she never gives F's the first report card becuase it discourages the kids. I honestly couldn't pass them with D there test scores were below 50% mostly in the 40%-20% range, they can't do the classwork properly and barely participate. Even if I call on them to answer questions they just don't get it.
So how do you feel about failing kids? It sorta breaks my heart, but I'm not doing something completely wrong if I have other kids in the class getting 100% on these tests and etc.
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Posted 11/16/09 7:33 PM  |
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Jan1975
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Member since 8/09 3846 total posts
Name:
Sarah
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Well I teach 8th grade so it is a bit different. But my feeling is at least at age 12-13 you get what you deserve. I feel badly sometimes but I cannot give them the same grades as students who actually do the work.
As for kindergarten, they are very small but you still need to be honest...if they aren't on level maybe they need help and by failing them you are making it very clear to their parents that something must be done. Good luck!
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| Posted 11/16/09 8:10 PM |
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missfabulous
#mommyneedswine
Member since 6/09 10031 total posts
Name:
Colleen
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
As long as they were were aware they were in danger of failing and the parents were aware- i will fail them. But it also depends on what the average came out.
I had 2 students close to failing. One with a 63 and one with a 62. That close, I just give them the 65. If they were well under 60, I wouldn't give it to them.
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| Posted 11/16/09 8:16 PM |
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drpepper318
MIR MIR MIR!
Member since 6/07 8274 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
I'm such a lenient grader that the kids who fail TRULY deserve it. So I don't feel bad about it. They were warned, I gave them so many chances... they chose not to pass. I can't save everybody if they don't want to be saved. I teach hs though... so they are old enough to understand the consequences of what they do.
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| Posted 11/16/09 8:27 PM |
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PennyCat
Just call me mommy :)
Member since 7/08 19084 total posts
Name:
Jib
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
I teach 7th grade and honestly, even if they deserve to fail 'grade-wise', if they are TRYING and have hw completed every night, and have been showing that they want to improve, I don't fail them.......
I really take 'extra' things into consideration. (do they look forward while I teach, do they distract others, etc.... do they take decent notes..)
ETA: I wanted to add... in my school we actually are no allowed to fail a student the FIRST marking period.
Also, regardless of the marking period, we are not allowed to fail a student unless we have been corresponding with the parent about it. My school doesn't want the parent to see the report card and be like "WT F?!?!" 
Message edited 11/16/2009 11:17:08 PM.
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| Posted 11/16/09 8:47 PM |
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CAMCaps
Live Laugh Love Run
Member since 6/07 4922 total posts
Name:
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
My first year I felt bad failing students. At this point, however, if you fail you have probably done very little work.
The only grade I will raise is a grade less than a 50. I always hope this will give the students some motivation to get their act together for the next quarter. Otherwise, if they have a twenty as their average, they will sit there for the rest of the year and do nothing as there is no way for them to pass.
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| Posted 11/16/09 9:09 PM |
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sunnygirl
loving life
Member since 1/07 5413 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
i don't think its that terrible to fail a child, especially considering its only the first report card, i feel it shows the child they need to step it up and work harder to get those grades up and pass the grade, in june yes i do feel bad to fail them and if need be leave them back but if they can't hack it its better for them then to be sent to the next grade where they sit there in a fog and just keep falling further and further behind
i will say i understand feeling even worse in K but again hopefully this will encourage the parents to work a little harder with them or look to see if they child has any other learning issues
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| Posted 11/16/09 10:12 PM |
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Epeebes
Easy Peasy!
Member since 11/07 1428 total posts
Name:
Epeebes
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Thx for the feedback ladies. I am definitely using it as a wake up call for the students as well as the parents. One of the 2 can do the work if she really applies herself and she has picked up the pace in other subject areas. However the other student, well he doesn't have a clue most days. But that's becuase he doesn't focus and I think (and not that I'm diagnosing) he may have ADD. He is also still 4 so that may be part of the problem too.
Anywho, thx for the feedback
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| Posted 11/17/09 7:37 AM |
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JennJay41
LIF Toddler
Member since 3/08 431 total posts
Name:
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
I feel that unless a student is doing NOTHING, they should never get a failing grade.... If they are not passing because they are trying and just dont get it, they need to get extra help outside or inside school..or be re-evaluated and maybe get an IEP. I think because many teachers do fail kids without trying to get them reevaluated, so many fall between the cracks.
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| Posted 11/17/09 12:00 PM |
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SummerMom
Now a mom of 2!
Member since 6/07 4970 total posts
Name:
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Posted by JennJay41
I feel that unless a student is doing NOTHING, they should never get a failing grade.... If they are not passing because they are trying and just dont get it, they need to get extra help outside or inside school..or be re-evaluated and maybe get an IEP. I think because many teachers do fail kids without trying to get them reevaluated, so many fall between the cracks.
Yes, but if you pass a kid because he's nice, but totally incapable, no one will know to evaluate him. I teach in a high school and my students have 8 teachers, and the guidance counselors have hundreds of kids. That's a lot of kids and grades to keep track of. A failing grade is a red flag that something is wrong and needs to be done. A note in the guidance counselor's mailbox saying that there's a problem, coupled with a passing grade, might have the GC believe that there's not too big a problem and that it can wait. And that's when nothing gets done.
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| Posted 11/17/09 6:01 PM |
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CAMCaps
Live Laugh Love Run
Member since 6/07 4922 total posts
Name:
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Posted by JennJay41
I feel that unless a student is doing NOTHING, they should never get a failing grade
I have to disagree.
This is JMO, but I think if you pass a student when they have not satisfactorily completed a class then you are doing them a huge disservice. With this mentality, I think teachers let them slip through the cracks.
ETA: I mean if a student is trying and gets a 63, I am not going to be evil and fail them, but if you have below a 60 it is probably because you "earned" it.
Message edited 11/17/2009 6:31:42 PM.
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| Posted 11/17/09 6:29 PM |
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Epeebes
Easy Peasy!
Member since 11/07 1428 total posts
Name:
Epeebes
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
I failed my students because they were well below 60%
I did find out however that my student that can't focus is slighty autistic. So I have to figure out how to help him in what works to get him to learn.
Iam also required to do one on one resource with my kids that are failing at the end of the day so that they don't fall through the cracks. We don't have a GC or IEP teacher at my school since its a private school.
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| Posted 11/17/09 8:23 PM |
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Erica
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 11767 total posts
Name:
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
I don't know about failing a kid in Kindergarten.
Have you brought these children to the IST?
are they young? Sometimes the kids that aren't 5 yet are just really immature and need a little more guidance. It's not their fault that their birthday fell when it did.
do you have other ways to judge participation? "Turn and talk" share with a partner. Have the partner share the other's idea.
Have you talked to the parents? what kind of action plans have you come up with?
With all the RTI talk, I would make sure you are fully covered before giving that F.
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| Posted 11/17/09 8:26 PM |
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InShock
life is good
Member since 10/06 9258 total posts
Name:
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
I have to say, I'm VERY curious about what you expect of Kindergarteners in terms of spelling, reading, and math.
IMO, letter grades aren't even appropriate for primary grades, but I guess that's neither here nor there since clearly that's what your school does.
Are the parents aware that their children are "failing"?
I guess I'm really just trying to wrap my head around "failing" Kindergarteners. 
Message edited 11/17/2009 9:09:19 PM.
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| Posted 11/17/09 9:08 PM |
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Arieschick29
aries+cancer= pisces&gemini
Member since 3/06 4268 total posts
Name:
Jen
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Posted by InShock
I have to say, I'm VERY curious about what you expect of Kindergarteners in terms of spelling, reading, and math.
IMO, letter grades aren't even appropriate for primary grades, but I guess that's neither here nor there since clearly that's what your school does.
Are the parents aware that their children are "failing"?
I guess I'm really just trying to wrap my head around "failing" Kindergarteners.
My thoughts too- Kdg'ers can't read, write or count without help at this point of the year. How do you grade them on things you do with them?
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| Posted 11/17/09 9:55 PM |
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Epeebes
Easy Peasy!
Member since 11/07 1428 total posts
Name:
Epeebes
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Posted by InShock
I have to say, I'm VERY curious about what you expect of Kindergarteners in terms of spelling, reading, and math.
IMO, letter grades aren't even appropriate for primary grades, but I guess that's neither here nor there since clearly that's what your school does.
Are the parents aware that their children are "failing"?
I guess I'm really just trying to wrap my head around "failing" Kindergarteners.
These students are very advanced since my school teaches a level ahead, so really I'm teaching 1st grade instead of kindergarten. All of my students except 2 went to the school for Pre-k, in which they learned kindergarten work last year. One kid is way more advanced than even the ones that went to the school, the other is picking up the work quickly.
I hate the letter grades too, but its not my policy. I'm pushing for rubric style 1-4 grading and My principal seems on board and its slowly being implemented.
Failing is not being able to understand the concepts that are being taught in the subjects.
It may not be a normal school setting, but the parents and the admin know what the expectations are, and some parents even want the kids to do more academics
I guess I'm working with what I'm being given and adjusting what needs to be adjusted. And believe it or not this week my students are discovering they are able to read Level A books. They get so excited to learn which makes me more excited to teach them. However I never give them more than they can handle as a whole. I personally think most of the kids would be bored with the work in a regular Kindergarten Class, becuase everytime I give them easy K work they always say "but we know this already!"
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| Posted 11/17/09 10:21 PM |
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Epeebes
Easy Peasy!
Member since 11/07 1428 total posts
Name:
Epeebes
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Posted by Erica
I don't know about failing a kid in Kindergarten.
Have you brought these children to the IST?
are they young? Sometimes the kids that aren't 5 yet are just really immature and need a little more guidance. It's not their fault that their birthday fell when it did.
do you have other ways to judge participation? "Turn and talk" share with a partner. Have the partner share the other's idea.
Have you talked to the parents? what kind of action plans have you come up with?
With all the RTI talk, I would make sure you are fully covered before giving that F.
Silly question but whats RTI?
I don't base my grading solely on tests. I HATE tests actually. I base more on Class participation and knowledge of the content. I do alot of informal assessment everyday.
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| Posted 11/17/09 10:25 PM |
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Erica
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 11767 total posts
Name:
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Posted by Epeebes
Silly question but whats RTI?
RTI= Response to Intervention. All NYS schools have to have a model implemented by 2012, but my SD (and others around us) are already using this model
RTI
When you say Level A books. do you mean Fountas and Pinnell? If you are using F&P, have you assessed the students. That would give you more of an idea about where the students are in their reading and maybe some data that you can use to back up your grading.
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| Posted 11/17/09 11:33 PM |
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Epeebes
Easy Peasy!
Member since 11/07 1428 total posts
Name:
Epeebes
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Posted by Erica
Posted by Epeebes
Silly question but whats RTI?
RTI= Response to Intervention. All NYS schools have to have a model implemented by 2012, but my SD (and others around us) are already using this model
RTI
When you say Level A books. do you mean Fountas and Pinnell? If you are using F&P, have you assessed the students. That would give you more of an idea about where the students are in their reading and maybe some data that you can use to back up your grading.
Thank you for the RTI info.
See here's the thing with my school. Since we are a private school we don't follow much of what NYS mandates, which I partially think is a disservice sometimes to the kids. We are also IMO severely unresourced and use very outdated materials. I actually had to purchase most of my books, teaching guides and materials. With this said the teachers teach very old school, I am the ONLY certified teacher in the school (but we are very small) and I am the one trying to overhaul and everyone else with the times so to speak. My principal is on board with all this BUT doesn't realize it takes a lot of money to putnew programs into place.
I could literally go on and on about what needs to be fixed at my school....
Yes I use F&P leveled books. But I don't have ANY assessment tools yet, since I wasn't expecting K students to read just yet, so I have to get on the ball with that and figure out how to get some.
We are allowed to teach how we want in my school there's no official guidelines persay. Its frustrating becuase there's little structure unless as the teacher you make it yourself.
Sry that the response was long but I hope it gave you an idea of what I'm dealing with, and how I'm working with it.
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| Posted 11/18/09 7:39 AM |
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justbeachy
So close....
Member since 7/07 2900 total posts
Name:
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Posted by JennJay41
I feel that unless a student is doing NOTHING, they should never get a failing grade.... If they are not passing because they are trying and just dont get it, they need to get extra help outside or inside school..or be re-evaluated and maybe get an IEP. I think because many teachers do fail kids without trying to get them reevaluated, so many fall between the cracks.
But if a child isn't meeting the requirements of a standard, how can I in good faith pass them? Isn't that how we wind up with high schoolers who can't do 8 x 12 and read on an elementary level?
I am all for evalutaing kids, investigating their IEP's and providing them with the support they need (during and after school), but some students just aren't making the grade. And I agree with others that we do them a disservice by providing them with a false sense of accomplishment.
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| Posted 11/18/09 9:02 AM |
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JennJay41
LIF Toddler
Member since 3/08 431 total posts
Name:
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
I don't believe what I posted would be giving a false sense of accomplishment and I do not believe it would let them slip through the cracks.....If I have a student who is failing and I clearly see it is because they are not able to comprehend what is going on, a meeting needs to be held with the parent, guidance needs to be notified, IEP team, etc. Failing a student based on testing them on work that is too difficult for them does not accomplish anything except letting the student know that even though they tried, it didn't matter..... Please don't misunderstand, I am not talking about given them 90s, 80s or even 70s, but given them the 65 for trying.... Also, I am not saying pass them into high school when they are unable to read. I am saying other measures need to be taken when a student is failing IF they are really trying. With my experience, even when a kid gets failing grades, they are passed on to the next level and it is not ALWAYS a red flag to guidance.
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| Posted 11/18/09 12:19 PM |
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justbeachy
So close....
Member since 7/07 2900 total posts
Name:
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Posted by JennJay41
I don't believe what I posted would be giving a false sense of accomplishment and I do not believe it would let them slip through the cracks.....If I have a student who is failing and I clearly see it is because they are not able to comprehend what is going on, a meeting needs to be held with the parent, guidance needs to be notified, IEP team, etc. Failing a student based on testing them on work that is too difficult for them does not accomplish anything except letting the student know that even though they tried, it didn't matter..... Please don't misunderstand, I am not talking about given them 90s, 80s or even 70s, but given them the 65 for trying.... Also, I am not saying pass them into high school when they are unable to read. I am saying other measures need to be taken when a student is failing IF they are really trying. With my experience, even when a kid gets failing grades, they are passed on to the next level and it is not ALWAYS a red flag to guidance.
I'm sorry - I hope I didn't come across as rude
I guess with math (what I teach) it's just very black and white. Either you can multiply decimals or you can't. That doesn't mean that I'm not differentiating and providing students with every support that they need - should they be struggling...but if they can't prove that they understand the specific math standards, I can't in good faith pass them.
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| Posted 11/18/09 12:35 PM |
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BES
LIF Zygote
Member since 5/08 24 total posts
Name:
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
What exactly can't your failing students do? In terms of reading, do they recognize their letters, know any sounds, do they know any sight words.?
And for math, can they recognize numbers, count, use one-to-one correspondence?
You said that your curriculum is advanced, so I'm just curious about what the expecations are.
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| Posted 11/18/09 5:55 PM |
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happytobreathe
The Lazy Days of Summer
Member since 10/06 1413 total posts
Name:
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Posted by Epeebes
Posted by Erica
Posted by Epeebes
Silly question but whats RTI?
RTI= Response to Intervention. All NYS schools have to have a model implemented by 2012, but my SD (and others around us) are already using this model
RTI
When you say Level A books. do you mean Fountas and Pinnell? If you are using F&P, have you assessed the students. That would give you more of an idea about where the students are in their reading and maybe some data that you can use to back up your grading.
Thank you for the RTI info.
See here's the thing with my school. Since we are a private school we don't follow much of what NYS mandates, which I partially think is a disservice sometimes to the kids. We are also IMO severely unresourced and use very outdated materials. I actually had to purchase most of my books, teaching guides and materials. With this said the teachers teach very old school, I am the ONLY certified teacher in the school (but we are very small) and I am the one trying to overhaul and everyone else with the times so to speak. My principal is on board with all this BUT doesn't realize it takes a lot of money to putnew programs into place.
I could literally go on and on about what needs to be fixed at my school....
Yes I use F&P leveled books. But I don't have ANY assessment tools yet, since I wasn't expecting K students to read just yet, so I have to get on the ball with that and figure out how to get some.
We are allowed to teach how we want in my school there's no official guidelines persay. Its frustrating becuase there's little structure unless as the teacher you make it yourself.
Sry that the response was long but I hope it gave you an idea of what I'm dealing with, and how I'm working with it.
If you need books--- I can let you borrow some for now! Let me know!
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| Posted 11/18/09 6:19 PM |
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Epeebes
Easy Peasy!
Member since 11/07 1428 total posts
Name:
Epeebes
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Re: How do you feel about failing kids?
Posted by BES
What exactly can't your failing students do? In terms of reading, do they recognize their letters, know any sounds, do they know any sight words.?
And for math, can they recognize numbers, count, use one-to-one correspondence?
You said that your curriculum is advanced, so I'm just curious about what the expecations are.
Has trouble reconizing numbers, counting continually (stopping and starting over)
Letter sounds are touch and go, can't correspond sounds to the letters. Like if I say Mom he can sometimes only get the First M but only sometimes. Doesn't reconize sight words either.
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| Posted 11/18/09 9:27 PM |
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