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JaydenT
LIF Zygote
Member since 6/11 42 total posts
Name:
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questions about getting a puppy
My DH and I want to get a puppy. We want a certain crossbreed due to it's size (LL won't allow over certain lbs), temperment, and it doesn't bark a lot. Basically it's a big mush. Great for apartments.
My BIL got one from love my puppies in Wantagh with no problems.
But I had a dog from a store who said he was purebred but I suspect not since he had so many health problems. Probably from puppymill.
I would love to rescue a dog of that breed (not impossible) or get right form breeder.
What has been your experiences?
TIA!
Message edited 7/17/2011 4:52:47 PM.
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Posted 7/17/11 4:51 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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greenfreak
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Member since 9/06 11483 total posts
Name:
greenfreak
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
You will get various opinions, some may be based emotion rather than fact. But make no mistake, all dogs sold in pet stores come from mills or backyard breeders. A responsible breeder would never sell to a store in a million years. Mills and BYB's don't care about the dog or your family, only profit. So that's who is being funded by customers of stores.
Breeders of mixes with hybrid names are out to make a buck on a trend. There is no such thing as a reputable mix breeder because of this and other factors. Finding a reputable dog breeder isn't easy, but it shouldn't be. You're looking to add a family member and it's a 10 to 20 year responsibility.
Since you sound really specific on what you want, I'd definitely go the rescue/shelter route. There are plenty of dogs that are the victims of bad environments and bad decisions that are waiting for their forever homes. 
I sound pretty blunt about all this, and I want you to know it's not out of anger. I've posted a bunch of threads in the past few months about outlawing pet stores in Suffolk County, which could be a reality very soon. It's a terrible business and I'm trying to spread the information about it.
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| Posted 7/17/11 5:26 PM |
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bikramaddict
mommy-to-be
Member since 8/06 4376 total posts
Name:
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
Dh and I got a dog from a pet store three months ago. Growing up my dogs always came from breeders. Fortunately we bought my pup the same day she got to the store and she is in perfect health but I wouldn't do it again. We weren't thinking clearly when we made that decision. Go to a breeder.
Also keep in mind the responsibility of a puppy. I didn't realize just how much work it would be. I am considering it practice for a baby!
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| Posted 7/17/11 8:59 PM |
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Goobster
:)
Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
Name:
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
Posted by greenfreak
You will get various opinions, some may be based emotion rather than fact. But make no mistake, all dogs sold in pet stores come from mills or backyard breeders. A responsible breeder would never sell to a store in a million years. Mills and BYB's don't care about the dog or your family, only profit. So that's who is being funded by customers of stores.
Breeders of mixes with hybrid names are out to make a buck on a trend. There is no such thing as a reputable mix breeder because of this and other factors. Finding a reputable dog breeder isn't easy, but it shouldn't be. You're looking to add a family member and it's a 10 to 20 year responsibility.
Since you sound really specific on what you want, I'd definitely go the rescue/shelter route. There are plenty of dogs that are the victims of bad environments and bad decisions that are waiting for their forever homes.
I sound pretty blunt about all this, and I want you to know it's not out of anger. I've posted a bunch of threads in the past few months about outlawing pet stores in Suffolk County, which could be a reality very soon. It's a terrible business and I'm trying to spread the information about it.
what she said
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| Posted 7/17/11 9:55 PM |
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JaydenT
LIF Zygote
Member since 6/11 42 total posts
Name:
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
Thank you for all of the replies!
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| Posted 7/19/11 1:21 PM |
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MrsG823
Just call me Mommy.
Member since 1/11 5570 total posts
Name:
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
Have you looked on Petfinder.com they have so many animals that need good homes. You can select the breed/mix you are looking for- I agree with the pps PLEASE stay away from pet shop pets...most of these animals are from puppy mills.
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| Posted 7/19/11 4:15 PM |
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KittyKatCopper
missing my handsome boy
Member since 3/09 1579 total posts
Name:
Kat - HamptonsBride (LIW)
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
<--- Black & white one is a 9 yr old puppy store dog...hernia, stomach problems, diabetes...$$$ at the vet over the last nine years...didn't know about puppy mills back then...2nd tan dog is a rescue......do not buy from a store...we got her from Waggy Tail Rescue
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| Posted 7/19/11 5:13 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
I bought all my dogs from a pet store. Some have better reputations than others.
But ALL pet stores puppies are from puppy mills. And most of those dogs come from MO. The State of puppy mills "factory".
My little guy is from a puppy mill. Because let's be honest. There are NO breeders on Long Island and unless you are willing to drive/fly to another State, then you might end up buying a dog from a pet store. I contacted an organization in MO that look at puppy mills ONLY. They do inspections. They did a report for me on the breeder. There was no violation.
I did not want a rescue or an adult dog. PERIOD! I like to raise dogs from the puppy stage. I get to train them from the beginning. I get to know who they are and by the time they are adult, I know most of their life story. How they "might" react, etc..! And if you want a puppy, it's hard to get locally!
And those puppies at the local shelter. Well, they also come from puppy mills. They are just rescues most of the time of older pups.
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| Posted 7/20/11 9:42 AM |
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jilliibabii
Mrs. O'Connor
Member since 6/10 12821 total posts
Name:
Jillian
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
Posted by smdl
I bought all my dogs from a pet store. Some have better reputations than others.
But ALL pet stores puppies are from puppy mills. And most of those dogs come from MO. The State of puppy mills "factory".
My little guy is from a puppy mill. Because let's be honest. There are NO breeders on Long Island and unless you are willing to drive/fly to another State, then you might end up buying a dog from a pet store. I contacted an organization in MO that look at puppy mills ONLY. They do inspections. They did a report for me on the breeder. There was no violation.
I did not want a rescue or an adult dog. PERIOD! I like to raise dogs from the puppy stage. I get to train them from the beginning. I get to know who they are and by the time they are adult, I know most of their life story. How they "might" react, etc..! And if you want a puppy, it's hard to get locally!
And those puppies at the local shelter. Well, they also come from puppy mills. They are just rescues most of the time of older pups.
I'm sorry, but I don't believe this. What makes a place a puppy mill IS the violations and the mistreatment of it's animals. If a place has no violation and cares for it's dogs properly, it's a breeder, and I'd have a hard time believing they'd sell to a pet store.
Message edited 7/20/2011 10:01:39 AM.
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| Posted 7/20/11 10:00 AM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
Posted by jilliibabii
Posted by smdl
I bought all my dogs from a pet store. Some have better reputations than others.
But ALL pet stores puppies are from puppy mills. And most of those dogs come from MO. The State of puppy mills "factory".
My little guy is from a puppy mill. Because let's be honest. There are NO breeders on Long Island and unless you are willing to drive/fly to another State, then you might end up buying a dog from a pet store. I contacted an organization in MO that look at puppy mills ONLY. They do inspections. They did a report for me on the breeder. There was no violation.
I did not want a rescue or an adult dog. PERIOD! I like to raise dogs from the puppy stage. I get to train them from the beginning. I get to know who they are and by the time they are adult, I know most of their life story. How they "might" react, etc..! And if you want a puppy, it's hard to get locally!
And those puppies at the local shelter. Well, they also come from puppy mills. They are just rescues most of the time of older pups.
I'm sorry, but I don't believe this. What makes a place a puppy mill IS the violations and the mistreatment of it's animals. If a place has no violation and cares for it's dogs properly, it's a breeder, and I'd have a hard time believing they'd sell to a pet store.
No. It's not!!! Essencially a puppy mill is really MASS production of puppies where the female is constantly PG. Litter after litter. Multiple females. THAT is the main concern for puppy mills. Female PG all the time. Not all breeders of puppy mills have violations. This is a wrong statement!
Part of those puppy mills are also what is called "backyard breeders". People who decide to be breeders with not real regards for the breed. They have so so dogs (not champions or pups from champions), then decide to breed their dogs and sell the pups.
Smaller breeders with "champions" do not sell to pet stores. They sell their pup directly to the public.
You have to make an informed decision when buying a puppy. But I KNOW that they are not that many local breeders. And if you want a puppy NOW, you can't always with a local breeder. So the pet store furfill this need for the public.
NOT all pet stores are bad or mistreat their animals. Some puppy mills breeders are better than others. But ALL pet stores puppies come from puppy mills. Regardless of what they say. There is no way a local breeder can provide puppies on demand. And local breeders' dog are a lot more expensive. If you talk to your vet they will tell you that many of them have contracts with local pet stores because they need their shots. And my own vet said, they are all from puppy mills.
So you also CANNOT confuse a local "backyard breeder" with a genuine breeder who spends time looking for blood lines when "making pups".
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| Posted 7/20/11 10:41 AM |
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greenfreak
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Member since 9/06 11483 total posts
Name:
greenfreak
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
Posted by jilliibabii
I'm sorry, but I don't believe this. What makes a place a puppy mill IS the violations and the mistreatment of it's animals. If a place has no violation and cares for it's dogs properly, it's a breeder, and I'd have a hard time believing they'd sell to a pet store.
I guess the question is - what do you consider caring for it's dogs properly? And if you know they exist, can you link to one that does it well?
One of the things discussed in that link I posted above is selective breeding. How do you know if the parents of the puppies are prone to the common medical problems that plague purebreeds? A reputable breeder does extensive medical clearances that are certified. This gets very expensive, especially when you're keeping records of all the puppies, parents, grandparents and great grandparents to make sure that you remove a dog from the breeding line if it shows a vulnerability to these things.
Do you get these certified clearances for your puppy and going back four generations of it's parents when you buy from a pet store? Maybe. They're usually counterfeit though, from nonexistent agencies.
That's just one of many problems with large-scale breeding places. To do it right, it requires large amounts of time and money. To make a profit, corners get cut, and the animals are the ones that suffer when that happens.
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| Posted 7/20/11 12:18 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
Posted by greenfreak
Do you get these certified clearances for your puppy and going back four generations of it's parents when you buy from a pet store? Maybe. They're usually counterfeit though, from nonexistent agencies.
You can. I got records from AKC on my dog. But he is a purebreed. Is he a show dog? Probably not! Although I think he is the cutest. He has white markings that are "acceptable" for his breed but not making him the most desirable in term of champions.
If he was champion material, he would have been double the price. But I have "real" records on his family history and AKC number back 3 generations. I can go back 4 generations.
Again, it depends!
I researched the breeder. I can trace all the transfers of my dog from the breeder to a WELL KNOW puppy mill intermediary and the sale to the puppy store. Contacted an organization that research MO puppy mills and has a website about all violations they found.
Would I have loved to find a local breeder that was not as much of a puppy mill? Yes. Was it avaiable? no.
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| Posted 7/20/11 12:51 PM |
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greenfreak
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Member since 9/06 11483 total posts
Name:
greenfreak
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
WOW. What a journey your dog took to get to you! I researched too but after a while, I tried not to think or wonder about what they went through before they wound up with us. It's heartbreaking, isn't it?
Brinkley wasn't show material either. It doesn't take much at all, I learned from a breeder friend. He was too short, the line of his back isn't straight, etc. They're so specific on everything.
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| Posted 7/20/11 2:29 PM |
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MrsA714
Baby #2 is here!
Member since 8/07 8806 total posts
Name:
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
As greenfreak stated above, everyone will have an opinion on this. I personally could not buy from a pet store knowing that my $ was going towards the puppy mills. A breeder is a totally different thing but as mentioned above reputable breeders do not do 'cross breeds'. I would definitely look into local rescues and shelters. Contrary to popular belief, they don't only get old or older dogs that have been neglected and/or abused. They get plenty of puppies and plenty of pure breeds and those crossbreeds that have become so popular.
My friend recently started an animal rescue and has worked with many of them over the years. I'd say about 30-40% of the dogs she rescues are puppies (> 12 wks) so just because you are adopting a 'rescue' dog does not mean you necessarily have to get an older dog. The majority of her rescues come from puppy mills in Lancaster, PA. It is absolutely horrifying what they do to these dogs. Believe me, if it was just a matter of keeping the female dogs pregnant all the time, that would be nothing. It's WAY worse.
Good luck in your search!
Message edited 7/22/2011 8:08:46 AM.
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| Posted 7/21/11 11:31 AM |
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
Posted by smdl
No. It's not!!! Essencially a puppy mill is really MASS production of puppies where the female is constantly PG. Litter after litter. Multiple females. THAT is the main concern for puppy mills. Female PG all the time. Not all breeders of puppy mills have violations. This is a wrong statement!
Part of those puppy mills are also what is called "backyard breeders". People who decide to be breeders with not real regards for the breed. They have so so dogs (not champions or pups from champions), then decide to breed their dogs and sell the pups.
Smaller breeders with "champions" do not sell to pet stores. They sell their pup directly to the public.
You have to make an informed decision when buying a puppy. But I KNOW that they are not that many local breeders. And if you want a puppy NOW, you can't always with a local breeder. So the pet store furfill this need for the public.
NOT all pet stores are bad or mistreat their animals. Some puppy mills breeders are better than others. But ALL pet stores puppies come from puppy mills. Regardless of what they say. There is no way a local breeder can provide puppies on demand. And local breeders' dog are a lot more expensive. If you talk to your vet they will tell you that many of them have contracts with local pet stores because they need their shots. And my own vet said, they are all from puppy mills.
So you also CANNOT confuse a local "backyard breeder" with a genuine breeder who spends time looking for blood lines when "making pups".
You're saying that what makes an organization a puppy mill is that they breed their females on every heat cycle. This is true and is indeed horrific, but at the same time you are saying that not all puppy mills are bad. Seems to me that breeding her constantly is bad, therefore all puppy mills are bad, simple logic.
The over breeding of the females is not the only problem. These dogs are not health checked for anything. These mills breed hip dysplasia, heart abnormalities, eye diseases, you name it. Whatever disease that is common to a breed you will see parents with that disease being bred at a puppy mill. Keep in mind also that the owners of the puppy mills simply do away with any puppy that may be too ill to sell.
Reputable breeders are breeders who breed for only one purpose, to better the breed. That means they have done all health checks possible and will not breed any dog that has any health issues even if they put the time and money into putting a championship on that dog. They are dedicated to their breed. And no reputable breeder, of any breed, will sell to a pet shop.
Sorry, but puppy mill does not fit the above description. There are no pet shops or puppy mills that are better than others. And there is no reason for anyone to buy a puppy at a pet shop when reputable breeders exist.
Also, there are indeed dog breeders on Long Island.
To anyone who wants a purebred dog, there is no reason to go to a pet shop. Please go to a reputable breeder where you will get a pup that is healthy and is socialized.
Message edited 7/22/2011 12:57:54 AM.
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| Posted 7/22/11 12:57 AM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
In no way did I say that I agreed with puppy mills and it was a perfect World. Far from it!
But I did buy my dogs from pet stores. So blame me! And yes there are better and worst breeders all along the spectrum. Puppy mills or not. Not all local breeders are reputable either. You just have to do what works for you and your family. We had purebreed German Shepherds when I was a child with papers and everything. Puppies of champions. I am well aware of breeders of champions. How breeders will take advantage of families who don't have much knowledge on a breed. Even nationally recognized breeders.
My dogs are VERY loved and well taken care of.
I traced the history of my purebreed puppy. Back to his Great grand-parents. It's not always as obscure as it might seem.
Was it the ideal situation? No.
But I saw him in the store. I fell in love with him. What would have happened if he was not been sold? So while I guess I promoted the puppy mill well... I also call myself a rescue 
Nobody needs to be made feel guilty about it. As long as people understand what they are getting themselves into.
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| Posted 7/22/11 8:45 AM |
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
What you said was: "NOT all pet stores are bad or mistreat their animals. Some puppy mills breeders are better than others."
This just isn't true, all puppy mils are bad, period. Sure some may not be as abusive as others but they are all bad. Same goes for pet shops selling puppies, they all get their pups from puppy mills, they are all bad.
No one should feel guilty for the way they purchased a puppy as long as they are comfortable with it. Most people who buy from a pet shop have no clue about puppy mills, so of course they should not feel guilty. But future buyers should be informed and educated as to the situation if at all possible.
My main point is that there is no reason for anyone to purchase a puppy at a pet shop when there are breeders out there that they can purchase from. There are breeders for every breed out there that have only one gaol, to better their breed. These breeders breed only from dogs who have health clearances, they will take back any puppy during it's life if the owner can't keep it, they will be available to the owner for any problems that may arise for the life of the dog, they breed pups that have been socialized since day one.
If someone buying a puppy is informed that these breeders exist then there is no reason to buy from a pet shop. Unfortunately, many potential puppy owners don't understand the puppy mill situation and don't know that each breed has a club with reputable breeders.
The ideal here would be for all folks wanting a purebred dog to go to a breeder and for all puppy mills to close because there would be no longer a demand for them since all buyers were going to reputable breeders.
Also, just for the record, AKC papers have nothing to do with the health of the puppy. They just mean that the pup was bred from dogs registered with the AKC, showing that the pup is a purely bred for it's breed but not anything else.
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| Posted 7/22/11 2:18 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
I am not going to go into a debate over this.
YES puppy mills are bad.
ALL pet stores puppies come from puppy mills.
NOT all pet stores mistreat their animals. Yes, they contribute to the puppy mills situation.
Not all local breeders are reputable. It is a big misconception to think so.
Pet stores provide the need for the demand of a puppy NOW and it's close to people's home.
You definition of a local breeder is NOT always the way breeders are. Some are backyard breeders claiming to be breeders. There has been many "how to find a reputable breeder" article out there.
You are talking about a REAL breeder who has champions. Breeds their dogs according to the AKC standards. With the better of the breed in mind. Well, there are NOT that many out there locally. They may be located UPSTATE NY or in another State. You may have to wait for a puppy. Sometimes MONTHS. For about 1.5 to double the price of pet stores.
Which is WHY pet stores are so successful. They provide a puppy 2 miles from your house and it's there! No wait!
Reputable breeders DO NOT want to sell to pet stores. 1/ it would alleviate the need to get puppies from MO if they did 2/ they make more money selling directly to people instead of pet stores.
ETA: I mentioned AKC to the Q that you don't know where the pups come from. I said I could trace all the transfers of my dog and back to his great grand-parents. It has nothing to do with health indeed. My dog has a warranty on some big breed issues.
If people knew how chickens are treated to produce eggs and meat, we would all be vegetarians.
Message edited 7/22/2011 2:38:06 PM.
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| Posted 7/22/11 2:35 PM |
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
Posted by smdl
You definition of a local breeder is NOT always the way breeders are.
I'm not defining 'local breeder', I'm defining 'reputable breeder'.
You are talking about a REAL breeder who has champions. Breeds their dogs according to the AKC standards. With the better of the breed in mind. Well, there are NOT that many out there locally. They may be located UPSTATE NY or in another State. You may have to wait for a puppy. Sometimes MONTHS. For about 1.5 to double the price of pet stores.
If a buyer is looking for a breed that is not that common then yes, they may have to wait months for a quality litter. And yes, they may have to go off the island for some not so common breeds. But waiting a few months on a decision to add a new family pet is not a big hardship and could be a good thing.
About this idea that puppies are less expensive at a pet shop than at a breeder, this is just not true. Check the prices of the pups at the pet shops, breeders pups are almost always less expensive. Sadly, the only pups at a pet shop that are cheaper than a breeder's pups are those that have not sold and are now many months old and they need to get rid of them.
Reputable breeders DO NOT want to sell to pet stores. 1/ it would alleviate the need to get puppies from MO if they did 2/ they make more money selling directly to people instead of pet stores.
Reputable breeders would never sell to a pet store because they want to know the new buyers, they do not sell their pups to just anyone. They invite potential buyers to their home to see the parent dogs, they talk to the buyer to be sure they understand the breed they are buying etc. The answer to the puppy mill problem is not to have breeders sell to pet shops. The answer is to have buyers purchase from breeders.
Reputable breeders do not make more money selling directly to people rather than selling to a pet shop. The goal of a rep. breeder is to better the breed period, not to make money. They breed a litter with the intention of that litter improving their breed, if they are successful they then keep a pup from that litter and sell the other pups. As far as money is concerned, if a breeder is lucky they will break even on the sale of pups. Many many breeders never break even financially, they are not in it for money. Did you ever notice that breeders are often people with money in the first place? that's because breeding is a hobby, a love of a breed. these are the folks that someone want to buy a pup from, not a pet shop.
It's always better to have people who want a purebred dog buy a pup from a reputable breeder than from pet shop. Not only will they get themselves a healthy well socialized pup, but they will be helping to put puppy mills out of business. It's just a matter of educating the public to what is out there.
Message edited 7/22/2011 6:06:07 PM.
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| Posted 7/22/11 6:02 PM |
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gdubs
This baby is awesome!
Member since 11/10 2467 total posts
Name:
Gina
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
Posted by smdl
My little guy is from a puppy mill. Because let's be honest. There are NO breeders on Long Island
There actually are AKC registered breeders on LI. They are few and far between but they do exist.
I got my dog from a breeder on LI. She does one litter a year, no crossed blood lines. Her dogs were treated very well and in excellent health. Champion lines which I did pay more for. I got breeding and show rights (even though I did get him fixed and never showed him).
I would never buy a puppy mill dog, just not worth the risk and I would never fund/support the kind of operation they are running. JMO
Message edited 7/26/2011 11:01:37 PM.
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| Posted 7/26/11 10:56 PM |
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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: questions about getting a puppy
Posted by Goobster
Posted by greenfreak
You will get various opinions, some may be based emotion rather than fact. But make no mistake, all dogs sold in pet stores come from mills or backyard breeders. A responsible breeder would never sell to a store in a million years. Mills and BYB's don't care about the dog or your family, only profit. So that's who is being funded by customers of stores.
Breeders of mixes with hybrid names are out to make a buck on a trend. There is no such thing as a reputable mix breeder because of this and other factors. Finding a reputable dog breeder isn't easy, but it shouldn't be. You're looking to add a family member and it's a 10 to 20 year responsibility.
Since you sound really specific on what you want, I'd definitely go the rescue/shelter route. There are plenty of dogs that are the victims of bad environments and bad decisions that are waiting for their forever homes.
I sound pretty blunt about all this, and I want you to know it's not out of anger. I've posted a bunch of threads in the past few months about outlawing pet stores in Suffolk County, which could be a reality very soon. It's a terrible business and I'm trying to spread the information about it.
what she said
Ditto. And despite a PP statement that there are no responsible breeders on LI, that simply is not true. One of the world's leading Chinese Crested Breeders in on LI, as well as one of the Top Great Dane Breeders. There is also a top Hunting Dog breeder on the North Shore that has a wait list several years long, but I can not remember the specific breed.
If you want a mixed breed, then definitely search a shelter, and call municipal shelters. Their websites and paper ads are not reflective of the breadth of dogs available.
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| Posted 8/4/11 11:00 PM |
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