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Angelina Jolie addresses daughter's boyish style, admits Shiloh wanted to be called "John".
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WhatNow
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Re: Angelina Jolie addresses daughter's boyish style, admits Shiloh wanted to be called "John".
Posted by Goobster
Posted by Elizabeth
Posted by angel333
Posted by itsbabytime
Posted by mamabear
Posted by BunnyWife
Angelina sounds like an amazing mother
ITA!
Eh, I wouldn't go that far. I'm sure this isn't going to be the popular answer but, I don't really see Angelina or the situation as qualifying for parent of the year. I remember Angelina as she was for most of her adult life - complete freak of the week. I know the outside impression is she has changed but, I think there are glimpses that she really hasn't changed all that much and, really, does someone really go from drinking blood and making out with their brother to being normal?
That said, I think it would be one thing if she was being just a supportive bystander with her teenage daughter wanting to be all tomboyed out but, I don't think that is the situation here. Not sure how old Shiloh is now but, I remember pics before she could even walk of Angelina holding her and she looked like a boy even then - meanwhile her sister (don't remember the name -the adopted one) was always all decked out girly to the extreme. At that age there was NO way Shiloh was choosing that get up - Angelina put her in it. I even remember lots of media attention about it how Angelina favored the adopted daughter and felt Shiloh had life "too easy" and basically just ignored her. Honestly, I have no idea what goes on in their life but, I feel sorry for the kid who is probably very confused.
ITA! 
I agree too. I'm not saying a kid her age (she's 4 1/2, she was born a couple days after my son in May 2006) would or wouldn't want to dress in boys clothes or be called a boys name but I suspect it's Angelina Jolie or Brad Pitt or both of them or their publicists saying it would make for great media. I could be wrong but I doubt it. Celebs are always looking for ways to be different and unique (hence all the made up names we crack up at a lot) and she's always been a poseur and a nut so I totally see that making more sense IRL. If you think about it, it certainly sets her apart from Suri Cruise, who is also 4 1/2. How AWFUL would it be for a super celeb to have a daughter close in age to another super celeb daughter who both love the same girly things - heels, dolls, etc. So ununique.  Of course a kid could want to do this on their own, I don't doubt that but I smell a fake out with Angelina & Shiloh.
ITA. Just as their son Maddox sports a mohawk, ultra trendy cool clothes, etc. Cause I am sure a kid his age (at the time) knew sooo many other young kids with mohawks, etc. She loves attention, come on. She made out with her brother. To believe any of this is truly the child's inborn desire boggles my mind (in this case, once again)
ABSOLUTELY! I just love it when someone expresses my own thoughts so very well!
This is complete BS and a jump for media attention. Maybe I would have even believed the whole thing if I had one child or two kids of the same gender but I have a 5 1/2 year old boy and a 3 1/2 year old girl and I bet you I know EXACTLY how the whole thing went down. One day Shiloh asked why she doesn't get to wear crazy things liek Maddox spots in every photo and those two jumped on that! Heck, my daughter tried peeing standing up for 2 whole weeks and claimed that she was a boy because that's what her brother was doing! If she was the daughter of the two of those nutcases, Angelina would have probably told her it was perfectly fine and dragged her to a plastic surgeon to turn her little vajayjay into a pe*nis.
My son cried for dresses when my daughter started wearing them because she was getting all the attention. Jeez, it's a good thing he is MINE and not Angelina's because by now he would have been probably wearing them to school everyday! Luckily, he IS mine so a few little talks about the fact that only girls wear dresses took care of that! And no, he is not secretly gay or transgender and afraid to come out because of me -he is a perfectly happy, extremely boish little boy who loves trucks, cars and dinosaurs!
I tell ya, my heart REALLY goes out to this child. I know that technically she has everything in the world but something tells me she is not growing up the way a child should!
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Posted 12/9/10 11:11 PM  |
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Goobster
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Re: Angelina Jolie addresses daughter's boyish style, admits Shiloh wanted to be called "John".
Posted by WhatNow
ABSOLUTELY! I just love it when someone expresses my own thoughts so very well!
This is complete BS and a jump for media attention. Maybe I would have even believed the whole thing if I had one child or two kids of the same gender but I have a 5 1/2 year old boy and a 3 1/2 year old girl and I bet you I know EXACTLY how the whole thing went down. One day Shiloh asked why she doesn't get to wear crazy things liek Maddox spots in every photo and those two jumped on that! Heck, my daughter tried peeing standing up for 2 whole weeks and claimed that she was a boy because that's what her brother was doing! If she was the daughter of the two of those nutcases, Angelina would have probably told her it was perfectly fine and dragged her to a plastic surgeon to turn her little vajayjay into a pe*nis.
My son cried for dresses when my daughter started wearing them because she was getting all the attention. Jeez, it's a good thing he is MINE and not Angelina's because by now he would have been probably wearing them to school everyday! Luckily, he IS mine so a few little talks about the fact that only girls wear dresses took care of that! And no, he is not secretly gay or transgender and afraid to come out because of me -he is a perfectly happy, extremely boish little boy who loves trucks, cars and dinosaurs!
I tell ya, my heart REALLY goes out to this child. I know that technically she has everything in the world but something tells me she is not growing up the way a child should!
Hit the NAIL on the head with this. No doubt. I would bet all my $$ on it.
As for your DS wearing dresses to school...  I am sorry but I am not a fan of people catering to their children's wants instead of putting their foot down and saying "Boys don't wear dresses". That is NOT stifling a child. I am not a fan of children being coddled and catered to all in the name of "self expression". There are some things in society that should be enforced until a child is OLD enough to make those decisions for themself (clothing, other lifestyle choices, etc).
Well said.
Message edited 12/9/2010 11:33:16 PM.
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| Posted 12/9/10 11:32 PM |
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nrthshgrl
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Re: Angelina Jolie addresses daughter's boyish style, admits Shiloh wanted to be called "John".
The teasing was addressed in the school but the mother felt the daughter was struggling with the fact that she IS a girl & liked boy things. She was left out of play - which while it isn't nice, also isn't bullying. I don't think it was a bullying situation but more of one where kids question their friendships & if you have a kid that doesn't adheres to the "norm", those friendships are bound to change
The mom is the one that asked the counselor for help - and believe it or not those changes did help.
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by nrthshgrl
While it's fine at 4.5 yo, it does get problematic for older kids in elementary school. There is a little girl in my kids' school that dresses like a boy, wears boy underwear, plays boy games, wants to marry a girl in the class when she gets older. The mom went along with it & was trying to be supportive of who her daughter was. It became such an issue with teasing among the boys who were her best friends & the girls who didn't include her in games. The counselor intervened, spoke to the mom because while she may have been confused about her gender, she needed to know that for now she was a girl who liked boy things. Her mom with the help of the counselor has transitioned her over into wearing light blue to purple, to shirts with candy versus football, etc. Underwear is now girl's underwear. She no longer is getting the "I don't see any girl's here" and "you're in the wrong bathroom, aren't you?" crap that was going on.
Barb, I usually agree with you on most of your posts, but this one, I firmly disagree with, and what's more, your daughter's school needs some intervention before they get slammed with a discrimination complaint, that, by all appearances, is warranted.
If kids are teasing another child about the fact that they don't comply with stereotypical behavior for their gender, it is considered gender discrimination. Under Title IX, a school is mandated to take specific steps in response, like addressing the teasing head on, and providing remedies that do not impose more of a restriction on the grieved party than anyone else.
I can tell you this - if that mother had filed a complaint with our office, we would have likely found a violation and mandated that the school conduct extensive training for its staff and administrators, provide training for all of the students on sex/gender discrimination (tailored to the age group, of course) and provide possible individual remedies to the child herself, if warranted, like counseling.
The individual remedies for her are what helped the situation. She's been in counseling for a few years since her parent's divorce.
I think 6-7 year old would have a hard time identifying themselves as transgender. They may learn towards preferences and with this child it was extreme but I think that's way too much information to hand a child of that age. Some of them still claim to be cats & dogs. Obviously, your experience with this issue supercedes anything I could imagine but I can't see an elementary school conducting transgender discrimination seminars. Do they actually do that for such a young age?
How do you distinguish between kids not wanting to play with other kids & bullying? Title IX can address bullying but it can't force children to be friends.
Anyway back to Angelina, I'll generalize here. Most actors/actresses excel at self-expression & have a constant need for attention. They are leading an alternative lifestyle - no set group of classmates for these children because of the nature of their parents' business so maybe it works for them. Letting a 4 year old sport a mohawk, dye their hair works for them. I think it's more of their personality trying to push their needs for self-expression on to their children & it works in terms of vying for attention in a large family.
Message edited 12/10/2010 5:49:55 AM.
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| Posted 12/10/10 5:48 AM |
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DandS
We are so blessed!!
Member since 1/07 1951 total posts
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Stacey
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Re: Angelina Jolie addresses daughter's boyish style, admits Shiloh wanted to be called "John".
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| Posted 12/10/10 12:09 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
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Beth
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Re: Angelina Jolie addresses daughter's boyish style, admits Shiloh wanted to be called "John".
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by nrthshgrl
While it's fine at 4.5 yo, it does get problematic for older kids in elementary school. There is a little girl in my kids' school that dresses like a boy, wears boy underwear, plays boy games, wants to marry a girl in the class when she gets older. The mom went along with it & was trying to be supportive of who her daughter was. It became such an issue with teasing among the boys who were her best friends & the girls who didn't include her in games. The counselor intervened, spoke to the mom because while she may have been confused about her gender, she needed to know that for now she was a girl who liked boy things. Her mom with the help of the counselor has transitioned her over into wearing light blue to purple, to shirts with candy versus football, etc. Underwear is now girl's underwear. She no longer is getting the "I don't see any girl's here" and "you're in the wrong bathroom, aren't you?" crap that was going on.
Barb, I usually agree with you on most of your posts, but this one, I firmly disagree with, and what's more, your daughter's school needs some intervention before they get slammed with a discrimination complaint, that, by all appearances, is warranted.
If kids are teasing another child about the fact that they don't comply with stereotypical behavior for their gender, it is considered gender discrimination. Under Title IX, a school is mandated to take specific steps in response, like addressing the teasing head on, and providing remedies that do not impose more of a restriction on the grieved party than anyone else.
I can tell you this - if that mother had filed a complaint with our office, we would have likely found a violation and mandated that the school conduct extensive training for its staff and administrators, provide training for all of the students on sex/gender discrimination (tailored to the age group, of course) and provide possible individual remedies to the child herself, if warranted, like counseling.
The individual remedies for her are what helped the situation. She's been in counseling for a few years since her parent's divorce.
I think 6-7 year old would have a hard time identifying themselves as transgender. They may learn towards preferences and with this child it was extreme but I think that's way too much information to hand a child of that age. Some of them still claim to be cats & dogs. Obviously, your experience with this issue supercedes anything I could imagine but I can't see an elementary school conducting transgender discrimination seminars. Do they actually do that for such a young age?
How do you distinguish between kids not wanting to play with other kids & bullying? Title IX can address bullying but it can't force children to be friends.
You would be suprised! Alex has a 5 year old in her class who is a little "different" and doesn't comport with her gender stereotype either. This little girl also happens to have two mothers. The teachers have been talking to her clasmates for YEARS about "being different" and the importance of accepting it, all in a way that a 4/5 year old can comprehend, and I have to tell you, this little girl has absolutely no issues in our school, and happens to be one of the most popular kids in her class.
I agree, it may be too young to address transgender issues head-on but it is NEVER too young for a teacher to address the importance of accepting and embracing difference. And if the school is on notice that a child is being ostracized/teased because of a stereotypical difference, or being told ""I don't see any girl's here" and "you're in the wrong bathroom, aren't you?"", it is under an obligation to address it in a manner that is appropriate for that age group. While counseling is well and good, that's just one tiny little facet of what is required and the focus really should be on the rest of the class.
Title IX applies the moment a child enters public school - that includes Kindergarten through high school. And I can tell you from what I've personally observed during my investigations, if the school fails to address it at this young age, it becomes much more problematic down the road.
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| Posted 12/11/10 6:53 AM |
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JP826
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Member since 9/06 10903 total posts
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Me!! All about ME!
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Re: Angelina Jolie addresses daughter's boyish style, admits Shiloh wanted to be called "John".
Posted by Goobster
Posted by WhatNow
ABSOLUTELY! I just love it when someone expresses my own thoughts so very well!
This is complete BS and a jump for media attention. Maybe I would have even believed the whole thing if I had one child or two kids of the same gender but I have a 5 1/2 year old boy and a 3 1/2 year old girl and I bet you I know EXACTLY how the whole thing went down. One day Shiloh asked why she doesn't get to wear crazy things liek Maddox spots in every photo and those two jumped on that! Heck, my daughter tried peeing standing up for 2 whole weeks and claimed that she was a boy because that's what her brother was doing! If she was the daughter of the two of those nutcases, Angelina would have probably told her it was perfectly fine and dragged her to a plastic surgeon to turn her little vajayjay into a pe*nis.
My son cried for dresses when my daughter started wearing them because she was getting all the attention. Jeez, it's a good thing he is MINE and not Angelina's because by now he would have been probably wearing them to school everyday! Luckily, he IS mine so a few little talks about the fact that only girls wear dresses took care of that! And no, he is not secretly gay or transgender and afraid to come out because of me -he is a perfectly happy, extremely boish little boy who loves trucks, cars and dinosaurs!
I tell ya, my heart REALLY goes out to this child. I know that technically she has everything in the world but something tells me she is not growing up the way a child should!
Hit the NAIL on the head with this. No doubt. I would bet all my $$ on it.
As for your DS wearing dresses to school... I am sorry but I am not a fan of people catering to their children's wants instead of putting their foot down and saying "Boys don't wear dresses". That is NOT stifling a child. I am not a fan of children being coddled and catered to all in the name of "self expression". There are some things in society that should be enforced until a child is OLD enough to make those decisions for themself (clothing, other lifestyle choices, etc).
Well said.
 Thank you.
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| Posted 12/11/10 8:22 AM |
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WhatNow
Say Cheese!
Member since 1/06 8033 total posts
Name:
A (formerly WhatNow?)
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Re: Angelina Jolie addresses daughter's boyish style, admits Shiloh wanted to be called "John".
Posted by Goobster
As for your DS wearing dresses to school... I am sorry but I am not a fan of people catering to their children's wants instead of putting their foot down and saying "Boys don't wear dresses". That is NOT stifling a child. I am not a fan of children being coddled and catered to all in the name of "self expression". There are some things in society that should be enforced until a child is OLD enough to make those decisions for themself (clothing, other lifestyle choices, etc).
Well said.
Well, thats' just it, exactly: there is a difference between self expression and doing whatever you want! Children look for us for guidance, and it's our job as parents to give that guidance to them. A toddler old boy asking to wear dresses or a 3 year old girl wanting to wear boy clothes are not transgender, they just don't know anything about genders and their attributes and it is the parents' job to explain it all to him. They LOOK to us to set limits and help them navigate this world and by going along with anything and everything they want we are only hurting them in the end!!
IF, when they are old enough, they make any kind of alternative lifestyle choice, it is our job as parents to support them and love them just as much. Much as we would teach them to use a toilet, brush their teeth, use utensils, say "thank you" and "please", we should teach them about society and who they are! All of that is LEARNED behavior and OUR responsibility! If we chucked everything to "self-expression", kids would still be walking around in diapers at 5 and using their hands to eat soup!
Would THAT be considered self-expression?
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| Posted 12/11/10 11:55 AM |
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DandS
We are so blessed!!
Member since 1/07 1951 total posts
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Stacey
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Re: Angelina Jolie addresses daughter's boyish style, admits Shiloh wanted to be called "John".
Posted by springchick
for Angelina and I am a happy for Shiloh becuase not a lot of parents are able to respect let their child be who they want to be.
ITA!!
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| Posted 4/4/11 1:01 PM |
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Tabitha
Member since 2/07 2029 total posts
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Re: Angelina Jolie addresses daughter's boyish style, admits Shiloh wanted to be called "John".
Posted by WhatNow
Posted by Goobster
Posted by Elizabeth
Posted by angel333
Posted by itsbabytime
Posted by mamabear
Posted by BunnyWife
Angelina sounds like an amazing mother
ITA!
Eh, I wouldn't go that far. I'm sure this isn't going to be the popular answer but, I don't really see Angelina or the situation as qualifying for parent of the year. I remember Angelina as she was for most of her adult life - complete freak of the week. I know the outside impression is she has changed but, I think there are glimpses that she really hasn't changed all that much and, really, does someone really go from drinking blood and making out with their brother to being normal?
That said, I think it would be one thing if she was being just a supportive bystander with her teenage daughter wanting to be all tomboyed out but, I don't think that is the situation here. Not sure how old Shiloh is now but, I remember pics before she could even walk of Angelina holding her and she looked like a boy even then - meanwhile her sister (don't remember the name -the adopted one) was always all decked out girly to the extreme. At that age there was NO way Shiloh was choosing that get up - Angelina put her in it. I even remember lots of media attention about it how Angelina favored the adopted daughter and felt Shiloh had life "too easy" and basically just ignored her. Honestly, I have no idea what goes on in their life but, I feel sorry for the kid who is probably very confused.
ITA!
I agree too. I'm not saying a kid her age (she's 4 1/2, she was born a couple days after my son in May 2006) would or wouldn't want to dress in boys clothes or be called a boys name but I suspect it's Angelina Jolie or Brad Pitt or both of them or their publicists saying it would make for great media. I could be wrong but I doubt it. Celebs are always looking for ways to be different and unique (hence all the made up names we crack up at a lot) and she's always been a poseur and a nut so I totally see that making more sense IRL. If you think about it, it certainly sets her apart from Suri Cruise, who is also 4 1/2. How AWFUL would it be for a super celeb to have a daughter close in age to another super celeb daughter who both love the same girly things - heels, dolls, etc. So ununique. Of course a kid could want to do this on their own, I don't doubt that but I smell a fake out with Angelina & Shiloh.
ITA. Just as their son Maddox sports a mohawk, ultra trendy cool clothes, etc. Cause I am sure a kid his age (at the time) knew sooo many other young kids with mohawks, etc. She loves attention, come on. She made out with her brother. To believe any of this is truly the child's inborn desire boggles my mind (in this case, once again)
ABSOLUTELY! I just love it when someone expresses my own thoughts so very well!
This is complete BS and a jump for media attention. Maybe I would have even believed the whole thing if I had one child or two kids of the same gender but I have a 5 1/2 year old boy and a 3 1/2 year old girl and I bet you I know EXACTLY how the whole thing went down. One day Shiloh asked why she doesn't get to wear crazy things liek Maddox spots in every photo and those two jumped on that! Heck, my daughter tried peeing standing up for 2 whole weeks and claimed that she was a boy because that's what her brother was doing! If she was the daughter of the two of those nutcases, Angelina would have probably told her it was perfectly fine and dragged her to a plastic surgeon to turn her little vajayjay into a pe*nis.
i agree!!! angelina has a history of being an attention seeking woman with poor decision making skills - im sure this is a part of that.
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| Posted 4/4/11 1:53 PM |
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DRMom
Two in Blue
Member since 5/05 20223 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: Angelina Jolie addresses daughter's boyish style, admits Shiloh wanted to be called "John".
Posted by rightasrain
oh my god, the media needs to leave john alone! she is adorable.
I agree why does anyone care???
I didn't realize this post was so old
Message edited 4/4/2011 9:15:21 PM.
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| Posted 4/4/11 9:09 PM |
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