| Posted By |
Message |
| Pages: << 4 5 6 [7] 8 |
neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by usuk2004
I think the people here who are arguing so emphatically against national healthcare are those who have never been in a situation where they've not had coverage.
I was in that situation for most of the first 19 years of my life (except for short periods here and there when we had medicaid or a similar program).
|
Posted 9/1/08 11:16 AM  |
| |
|
Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource |
SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by Janice
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by Janice
imagine having a lump and being scared to get in checked out in fear of your deductible and co-pay?
Imagine the feeling of a tax paying American, having a lump, but no insurance? that must be a sick feeling...
I am sure they would pick the choice of waiting a few weeks for an appointment....and from what my sister's Canadian family says, there really isn't much of a wait at all, especially if its a serious concern.
what people I don't think understand is that you're going to pay for the care either way. you'll either have to pay the co-pay or pay an extra 10% of your salary in income tax.
my co-pay premuim, deductible and copay are MORE then 10% of our salary.
I am sure those who are without insurance will be fine only having to pay 10% more in taxes rather then getting a hospital bill in the mail.
I could never put a dollar sign on my neighbor's child's health. ever. that's not life...that's not the way I live my life.
I understand why you feel the way you do - really I do.
and like many other have said, we def need better healthcare. I just really don't think a social program is the answer. I really don't think it would work in this country.
|
| Posted 9/1/08 11:18 AM |
| |
|
Janice
Sweet Jessie Quinn
Member since 5/05 27567 total posts
Name:
Janice
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
and like many other have said, we def need better healthcare. I just really don't think a social program is the answer. I really don't think it would work in this country.
I get it, I just don't understand the hesitation to give it a shot.
I just feel like those saying "no" are ingoring the needs of so many.
I will admit, I am really surprised so many answered no. I had no idea that would be the results of this post.
I am grateful that you posted the question...really grateful to know how and what other's are thinking.
I always tend to lean more towards the idealistic side of things...maybe that's my fault.
|
| Posted 9/1/08 11:21 AM |
| |
|
SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by Janice
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
and like many other have said, we def need better healthcare. I just really don't think a social program is the answer. I really don't think it would work in this country.
I get it, I just don't understand the hesitation to give it a shot.
I just feel like those saying "no" are ingoring the needs of so many.
I will admit, I am really surprised so many answered no. I had no idea that would be the results of this post.
I am grateful that you posted the question...really grateful to know how and what other's are thinking.
I always tend to lean more towards the idealistic side of things...maybe that's my fault.
it is my opinion that we would not be able to just "give it a shot".
the entire health system in the US would need to be overhauled. that is no small task. it would cost billions of $'s if not more and YEARS to change it.
eta: I just hope that the next President has something in mind... b/c we DO need to do something.
Message edited 9/1/2008 11:24:18 AM.
|
| Posted 9/1/08 11:23 AM |
| |
|
dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by Janice
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
and like many other have said, we def need better healthcare. I just really don't think a social program is the answer. I really don't think it would work in this country.
I get it, I just don't understand the hesitation to give it a shot.
I just feel like those saying "no" are ingoring the needs of so many.
I will admit, I am really surprised so many answered no. I had no idea that would be the results of this post.
I am grateful that you posted the question...really grateful to know how and what other's are thinking.
I always tend to lean more towards the idealistic side of things...maybe that's my fault.
it is my opinion that we would not be able to just "give it a shot".
the entire health system in the US would need to be overhauled. that is no small task. it would cost billions of $'s if not more and YEARS to change it.
eta: I just hope that the next President has something in mind... b/c we DO need to do something.
Rather spend billions on our own healthcare then on a war miles away ....
I do tend to think those who are really against any major reform have the money not to have to worry about it.
If you were in my shoes. If you were paying 34% weekly to insurance, and then had RX issues, and copays dedutibles on top of it...would you be wanting to find a solution other then the current options??
And yes my DH has been looking actively for another job to improve this situation. Its not easy to find. Hes looking into taking a federal job at a HUGE pay cut to pay less in the end on insurance, and the option to maybe grow salary wise over time.
Anyway...Im not sure that socialized is the way, but I think any option needs to be discussed, ANY and figure out whats the best way.
Im so tired of talk from the Government and no action.
|
| Posted 9/1/08 11:33 AM |
| |
|
passerby
LIF Zygote
Member since 8/08 47 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by Janice
Posted by passerby
what about students loans and house payments/rent those are bills looming over alot of peoples heads
what about it?
you choose to take out the loan.
you choose to have a mortgage...
did her SIL choose to get a staph infection?
she choose to have a baby
|
| Posted 9/1/08 11:41 AM |
| |
|
Janice
Sweet Jessie Quinn
Member since 5/05 27567 total posts
Name:
Janice
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by passerby
she choose to have a baby
 no comment
|
| Posted 9/1/08 11:43 AM |
| |
|
Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
Name:
Susan
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by neenie
I'm surprised no one has mentioned one of the biggest reasons that insurance costs are what they are- that we live in a sue-happy society. OBs alone pay $325,000 A YEAR for their malpractice insurance. So, before they even start to make money to pay their overhead, office workers, etc- before even making a salary- they need to make $325K to pay for their insurance. Because, if even the slightest thing goes wrong with a delivery (even when NOTHING happens to the mother or baby), people are jumping on the opportunity to sue sue sue. Granted, there are certainly *some* cases where it's an appropriate response, but in most of the cases- it's just greed. Then we wonder why the costs are what they are.
I am so glad you mentioned this!!
we need more tort reform!! I think that will solve A LOT of these issues.
Ob med mal insurance is high, probably the highest but that number is not for one doctor. That's a practice's premium. Not sure what that covers though.
It's a lot harder than you think to win a med mal case. Attorneys have to lay out money before they know for sure they have a case. They have to be 99% sure they have a case before they will lay out the money.
Having said that, HMOs led the way to doctors having limited time with each patient, making mistakes and not getting the whole picture.
The insurance companies dictate how long a doctor can spend with you. My doc doesn't follow those guidelines with me but I'm a lifer with him.
I wonder if the NHS dictates how long a doctor can spend with a patient.
|
| Posted 9/1/08 11:47 AM |
| |
|
passerby
LIF Zygote
Member since 8/08 47 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by neenie
Posted by usuk2004
I think the people here who are arguing so emphatically against national healthcare are those who have never been in a situation where they've not had coverage.
I was in that situation for most of the first 19 years of my life (except for short periods here and there when we had medicaid or a similar program).
While i was in college, I didn't have health coverage till i was 28 years old. Even had my first child with no health coverage. I also remember going to NUMC with bad back pain and having to go to their clinics. The services are out their. I always see the free mammogram bus going to different communities. I don't think anyone is being denied anything it might not be the care we want or the price we want but it is out there for everyone. I like the freedom of choice. what car, what house, what school based on what i can pay. I would loved a BMW but thats not in my budget. I remember growing up getting clothes at thrift shops or garage sales because that was my parents budget.
|
| Posted 9/1/08 11:48 AM |
| |
|
Janice
Sweet Jessie Quinn
Member since 5/05 27567 total posts
Name:
Janice
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
so you sit on the free mammogram bus, they find a lump.
now what? you make too much for medicaid to kick in.
|
| Posted 9/1/08 11:51 AM |
| |
|
neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by Janice
so you sit on the free mammogram bus, they find a lump.
now what? you make too much for medicaid to kick in.
Many hospitals are also stepping up to the plate now to play their part in this situation. North Shore has a Financial assitance unit and they just reworked their whole structuring of it to cover middle class families- all those stuck in the middle that make too much for medicaid, but not enough to afford insurance- and they have a pay scale based on how many people in your family vs your yearly income (and its no joke- the payments are similar to medicaid rates-it really does make healthcare accessible). Its realistic in terms of income, too- not like medicaid that cuts off at like $20k. I know you dont live in the area, so that doesn't apply speicifcally to you, but my point is that- there are programs out there- there are options.
|
| Posted 9/1/08 12:02 PM |
| |
|
passerby
LIF Zygote
Member since 8/08 47 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by Janice
Posted by passerby
she choose to have a baby
no comment
Was waiting for that response. i would fight for the freedom to be able to have a child anytime i wanted I don't want socialized medicine or the government coming in to tell me when i can have a child or how many children i can have. That's what is great about america our ability to make our own choices!!!
|
| Posted 9/1/08 12:04 PM |
| |
|
dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by neenie
Posted by Janice
so you sit on the free mammogram bus, they find a lump.
now what? you make too much for medicaid to kick in.
Many hospitals are also stepping up to the plate now to play their part in this situation. North Shore has a Financial assitance unit and they just reworked their whole structuring of it to cover middle class families- all those stuck in the middle that make too much for medicaid, but not enough to afford insurance- and they have a pay scale based on how many people in your family vs your yearly income (and its no joke- the payments are similar to medicaid rates-it really does make healthcare accessible). Its realistic in terms of income, too- not like medicaid that cuts off at like $20k. I know you dont live in the area, so that doesn't apply speicifcally to you, but my point is that- there are programs out there- there are options.
hers the kicker I mentioned earlier....all these "programs" use gross income...sure we may look ok when gross income is written down....
but our take home is minus 401 K...taxes...and 34% insurance. We bring home next to nothing and qualify for nothing.
|
| Posted 9/1/08 12:16 PM |
| |
|
neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by dm24angel
hers the kicker I mentioned earlier....all these "programs" use gross income...sure we may look ok when gross income is written down....
but our take home is minus 401 K...taxes...and 34% insurance. We bring home next to nothing and qualify for nothing.
The cut-off for a family of 4 is $106,000 (slightly less than for a family of 3). If many people are feeling economic strain, it's hard for me to imagine that they would not qualify based on this amount of $$$. Yes, this uses gross income, but it's $106K! That's alot, imo, for an assistance program.
You can click here for more information on the program
|
| Posted 9/1/08 12:30 PM |
| |
|
dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by neenie
Posted by dm24angel
hers the kicker I mentioned earlier....all these "programs" use gross income...sure we may look ok when gross income is written down....
but our take home is minus 401 K...taxes...and 34% insurance. We bring home next to nothing and qualify for nothing.
The cut-off for a family of 4 is $106,000 (slightly less than for a family of 3). If many people are feeling economic strain, it's hard for me to imagine that they would not qualify based on this amount of $$$. Yes, this uses gross income, but it's $106K! That's alot, imo, for an assistance program.
You can click here for more information on the program
well I dont go there, but we did not qualify at good sam for assistance with our deductible...we pay monthly...
not sure why its so hard for people to see its not black and white. I stand by the thought that if you were paying soooo much for your insurance you'd feel differently.
and once again..If anyone doesnt think there is a problem with our healthcare system as it is, I'd love to hear why it works.
|
| Posted 9/1/08 12:38 PM |
| |
|
neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by dm24angel
well I dont go there, but we did not qualify at good sam for assistance with our deductible...we pay monthly...
not sure why its so hard for people to see its not black and white. I stand by the thought that if you were paying soooo much for your insurance you'd feel differently.
and once again..If anyone doesnt think there is a problem with our healthcare system as it is, I'd love to hear why it works.
I DO think there's a problem with our healthcare system, as i said before- i just don't think socialized medicine is the answer.
It's frustrating to hear that people dont understand because they dont pay a ton- i grew up with NO insurance. i was there. i DO know. But, that still doesnt mean that this is the answer. And just as you may think its frustrating to hear people say that its not the answer, b/c you think since they dont have to pay its not an issue for them, its frustrating to see people unable to be objective about it b/c they just want their healthcare bills paid, regardless of how its done- that gives the govt WAY too much power and ability to screw things up, imo.
ITA that there needs to be changes made- i'm on the same page as you with this- but change, just for the sake of change, does NOT equal an Improvement.
|
| Posted 9/1/08 12:43 PM |
| |
|
dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by neenie
If many people are feeling economic strain, it's hard for me to imagine that they would not qualify based on this amount of $$$.
Let me explain how a family of 4 would feel strain at that income.
$106,000 gross
34% in insurance...now is -$69,960 yearly
lets say 15% in taxes-$59,466 yearly
Lets say 6% in 401K ( which is low) ..now its $55,898
and Im not including things like disability and SSI...so lets just guess LOW and say its about $50K bring home.
For a family OF FOUR.
Thats the problem.
So yes they would qualify for the assistance, but Im just explaining what a $106K income really is like for many middle classers.
People think its $$$$.
Message edited 9/1/2008 12:50:39 PM.
|
| Posted 9/1/08 12:46 PM |
| |
|
dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by neenie
its frustrating to see people unable to be objective about it b/c they just want their healthcare bills paid, regardless of how its done- that gives the govt WAY too much power and ability to screw things up, imo.
I dont feel that way??
I agree I need to pay for my bills, NOT the government. Im not sure anyone on here said they felt that way.
I think that the government needs to step in though, in a BIG way. Reform is needed. You know, you worked where I did..The insurance comapnies are running things along with the drug manufacturers.
The government needs to do something about liability for Dr's. Make it so a surgery doesnt cost thousands of $$$ b/c the dr's are afraid of being sued and have to pay such high insurance premiums to cover their arses.
Make it so a pill doesnt cost $100.
Make it so corporations pay more into their employees premiums.
etc....
|
| Posted 9/1/08 12:50 PM |
| |
|
passerby
LIF Zygote
Member since 8/08 47 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Okay then what's going on, why is insurance such an issue now? What is changing?
I remember doing payroll at a shop of about 20 employees we paid monthly insurance for either family or individual. All of a sudden in one month the premiums tripled. again why, what happened what changed? I think these things need to be looked into and figure out how we can make it afforable or availible to everyone. I don't want the government paying for me. What about those that don't want to go to the Dr every year will I be mandated to go and if i don't will they deny a claim. I tried for years to have a baby i was over 40 would they tell me too bad your too old? These are my decisions not theirs. If i want to pay years worth of deductibles to finally have my baby thats what i want to do.
Message edited 9/1/2008 1:07:39 PM.
|
| Posted 9/1/08 1:06 PM |
| |
|
usuk2004
I'm ONE!
Member since 5/05 5150 total posts
Name:
Farah
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by Janice
so you sit on the free mammogram bus, they find a lump.
now what? you make too much for medicaid to kick in.
Not to mention the mammogram bus is government-funded - so what you're saying is that in times when you haven't had medical insurance, you turned to government funded programmes...right?
|
| Posted 9/1/08 1:09 PM |
| |
|
dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by passerby
Okay then what's going on, why is insurance such an issue now? What is changing?
I remember doing payroll at a shop of about 20 employees we paid monthly insurance for either family or individual. All of a sudden in one month the premiums tripled. again why, what happened what changed? I think these things need to be looked into and figure out how we can make it afforable or availible to everyone. I don't want the government paying for me. What about those that don't want to go to the Dr every year will I be mandated to go and if i don't will they deny a claim. I tried for years to have a baby i was over 40 would they tell me too bad your too old? These are my decisions not theirs. If i want to pay years worth of deductibles to finally have my baby thats what i want to do.
I think a big part is malpractice. And Dr's just charging more and more along with that and insurance companies denying more and more.
|
| Posted 9/1/08 1:13 PM |
| |
|
SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by usuk2004
Posted by Janice
so you sit on the free mammogram bus, they find a lump.
now what? you make too much for medicaid to kick in.
Not to mention the mammogram bus is government-funded - so what you're saying is that in times when you haven't had medical insurance, you turned to government funded programmes...right?
is it not true that in the UK, the program may be run by the Gov't, but paid for by the tax payer?
|
| Posted 9/1/08 1:14 PM |
| |
|
2girlsforme
LIF Adult
Member since 8/06 3071 total posts
Name:
XXXXXXXXX
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by dm24angel
Posted by neenie
its frustrating to see people unable to be objective about it b/c they just want their healthcare bills paid, regardless of how its done- that gives the govt WAY too much power and ability to screw things up, imo.
I dont feel that way??
I agree I need to pay for my bills, NOT the government. Im not sure anyone on here said they felt that way.
I think that the government needs to step in though, in a BIG way. Reform is needed. You know, you worked where I did..The insurance comapnies are running things along with the drug manufacturers.
The government needs to do something about liability for Dr's. Make it so a surgery doesnt cost thousands of $$$ b/c the dr's are afraid of being sued and have to pay such high insurance premiums to cover their arses.
Make it so a pill doesnt cost $100.
Make it so corporations pay more into their employees premiums.
etc....
I don't know how I feel about socialized care because I just don't know enough to have an opinion. But, I do completely agree with you regarding all of the above points and this is coming from someone who works for the federal govt and has damn good coverage. I think the real reform probably has to address insurance companies and drug manufacturers. Its ridiculous that these industries remain largely unregulated and allowed to make untold amounts of money.
That said, just this year my husband had a great opportunity to establish a consulting practice, inside of a large nationally established practice. Although the perks and benefits were there and the potential for growth unbelievable, there was little or no insurance. The reason this was doable for us, was because I work and have great coverage. It's a shame that another person might have to have forgone this type of opportunity based solely on the cost of insurance.
|
| Posted 9/1/08 1:14 PM |
| |
|
usuk2004
I'm ONE!
Member since 5/05 5150 total posts
Name:
Farah
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by usuk2004
Posted by Janice
so you sit on the free mammogram bus, they find a lump.
now what? you make too much for medicaid to kick in.
Not to mention the mammogram bus is government-funded - so what you're saying is that in times when you haven't had medical insurance, you turned to government funded programmes...right?
is it not true that in the UK, the program may be run by the Gov't, but paid for by the tax payer?
All government run programs are paid for by the tax payer. Everywhere. That's the point of taxes.
|
| Posted 9/1/08 1:21 PM |
| |
|
SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by usuk2004
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by usuk2004
Posted by Janice
so you sit on the free mammogram bus, they find a lump.
now what? you make too much for medicaid to kick in.
Not to mention the mammogram bus is government-funded - so what you're saying is that in times when you haven't had medical insurance, you turned to government funded programmes...right?
is it not true that in the UK, the program may be run by the Gov't, but paid for by the tax payer?
All government run programs are paid for by the tax payer. Everywhere. That's the point of taxes.
yes, I know that. so no more Gov't funded anything if we go on socailzed care. the taxpayer bears all the burden.
|
| Posted 9/1/08 1:25 PM |
| |
|
| Pages: << 4 5 6 [7] 8 |
