Another Tenure Question.......

What about teachers who are ineffective teachers, who have tenure? Should they remain in the classroom just because they have tenure?

I ask this because we inheritted 4 teachers from a previous school who are just horrible. Very nice people but just horrible with the students. They have tenure, they are untouchable...

When does tenure go too far?

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I try not to judge other teachers - since people have very different versions of effectiveness. This is the whole reason why tenure was created - so administrators couldn't get rid of teachers who didn't think exactly like them.

It is quite possible that they are ineffective, but if you chip into the tenure question, it will be that much more fragile when we are older and a new generation comes in and tells us we've been doing it wrong all these years.

Re: Another Tenure Question.......

Erica,

I know that teachers have different styles. What I am referring to is No control in the classroom and just utter chaos.

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it's not about judging--there are definitely some very bad teachers out there. it's not about teaching styles--it's about ineffectiveness and laziness. they're not all old teachers either--some are quite young.

this is one problem i have with tenure. with that being said, most of the time the admin doesn't even realize they're bad teachers because they put on a good show for everyone. so even without tenure, they probably still wouldn't get fired because admin doesn't know.

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I agree that some untenured teachers get away with questionable actions. However, tenure is just too valuable in my opinion. I know what it feels like to be taken advantage of as an untenured teacher and to have my union rep tell me to just grin and bear it because I was untenured and not safe. Tenure provides you with the power to enforce your contract and keep administrators from treating you unfairly (not to say that all administrators would act unfairly).

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I don't know - they are new in the school, they lost their previous reputation with the students - maybe they have a bad bunch this year. I have seen good teachers get BAD students - I'm sure it has happened to most of us on here - I would hate people to call me ineffective in those scenarios.

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I think tenure is important and that most of the teachers it protects are deserving of it. There are always the exceptions, like the people you mentioned, those teachers who have tenure and don't really deserve it. We have a teacher like this in my school and you know what- she was like that before she got tenure. She put on a show for the administration and they didn't take the time to really look closely at what she was doing. I am in favor of tenure but I will admit that there are those who abuse it or don't deserve it. I'm not sure what the solution is, though.

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It's possible, though cumbersome, to get rid of bad teachers; most of the administrators I know just can't be bothered. A teacher at my school whacked a kid with a coffee mug; she still has her job even though this was one of many questionable incidents. My principal was told by HIS boss to begin a paper trail, and he didn't, in part because he knew that his own supervisor was not going to follow through. They are both at fault. And this goes on all over the city, especially. There was a Teaching Fellow at my school who was terrible, didn't to lesson plans, wasn't a good teacher, and yet this person was asked back and would have gotten tenure if he hadn't left of his own accord.

Contrary to what the general public thinks, tenure does not give us jobs for life; it gives us due process. But not enough principals use the system.

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Is this a city issue? I did teach in the city, but honestly I respected most of my colleagues (I was in a very high performing school though, so maybe that made a difference) and didn't think that anyone was a bad teacher (some not as good of course) In all my other positions, I really have never seen a tenured teacher that was ineffective.