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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
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M
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Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
I am watching The Daily Show and they are showing all the commentators who are against women in combat zones, yet all the evidence/studies/the fact that women are already serving in these types of roles seems to contradict the entire anti- argument.
Thoughts?
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Posted 1/29/13 7:54 PM  |
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Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
I'm all for it. I watched the same and find the debate laughable.
"Women as a distraction...women ruining the male bonding...women being forced to be exposed to issues that come up alongside men..."
all BS.
I know a lot of women in the armed forces at all levels/ranks. They are amazing in so may ways and are just as strong emotionally as men and can handle themselves just fine.
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| Posted 1/29/13 8:15 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
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..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
There was actually a very well written editorial in Newsday this weekend- by a woman- stating her reasons why she is against it.
I am not saying that I agree with her- but she brought up some good points and she wrote very well when explaining her point of view.
I will see if I can find it.
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| Posted 1/29/13 8:25 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
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M
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Re: Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
Posted by NervousNell
There was actually a very well written editorial in Newsday this weekend- by a woman- stating her reasons why she is against it.
I am not saying that I agree with her- but she brought up some good points and she wrote very well when explaining her point of view.
I will see if I can find it.
Please. I really haven't heard any arguments against that make sense to me, or that don't have stronger counter-arguments.
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| Posted 1/29/13 8:26 PM |
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DiamondGirl
You are my I love you
Member since 7/09 18802 total posts
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DiamondMama
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Re: Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
A FB friend who's DH was in the military went on a tirade about how terrible it was. I don't know specifics although I normally subscribe to the school of anything men can do we can do better 
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| Posted 1/29/13 9:17 PM |
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thisisme
LIF Adolescent
Member since 3/06 560 total posts
Name:
ME
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Re: Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
Unfortunately, yes, there are a lot of people against it. It's honestly mind boggling to me that it's even an issue still, but there are still many people out there with views that are decades in the past.
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| Posted 1/29/13 9:44 PM |
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kimmaymb20
a year of surprise
Member since 7/09 1119 total posts
Name:
Kimberly
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Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
As long as they do not lessen the standards for women I'm for it.
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| Posted 1/29/13 9:51 PM |
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Janice
Sweet Jessie Quinn
Member since 5/05 27567 total posts
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Janice
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Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
I only know Marine moms...none of them would ever think about going to combat.
They said they aren't wanted anyway and that is fine with them.
After watching The Invisible War-i really don't know where women fit into the military.
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| Posted 1/29/13 10:00 PM |
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Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
The main issue I hear is that by not being allowed to engage in certain roles, the women can be held back in their ranks and be prevented movement upwards.
I can't identify with the thought that women shouln't be in combat roles. Why should a woman who is ambitious and wants to be put in that role told no?
It's complete discrimination.
I can't imagine desiring a position at my job and being told I can't because I'm a woman.
I have read the cons to the idea...and none have swayed me yet.
If a woman feels a call to duty/patriotism/has enough love of this country to possibly die for it, she should be able to do so just as her male counterpart can.
Message edited 1/29/2013 10:27:50 PM.
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| Posted 1/29/13 10:25 PM |
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Re: Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
I'm not against it, not at all, and if a woman wants to fight on the front line then she should have the right to.
However, the argument that Kelly Ripa (of all people) brought up really struck me. She brought up the issue of treatment and torture of POWs. It is terrible what these men have lived through, and died from. But what would happen to a woman if she was captured and tortured is unthinkable, it is on an entirely different level. And while this may not be common, it will still exist and honestly gives me chills to think about.
Unfortunately men and women are not physically equal - and that is not an opinion, it is science.
But at the end of the day, I am all for a woman being able to have that role in combat.
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| Posted 1/29/13 10:38 PM |
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Janice
Sweet Jessie Quinn
Member since 5/05 27567 total posts
Name:
Janice
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Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
I think different issues have to be sorted out before this.
One in every 3 active military women have been sexually assulted. Last year, this was ruled as an occupational job hazard.
The only way it ends for these women is suicide or AWOL.
Evidence is lost and they are brought up on charges of adultry. Nothing is done to him.
PTSD is a crazy, sad situation. I have seen young wives and their black eyes, beaten. Faces when their spouses return home.
It is reported that a woman who was assulted has worse case of PTSD then a man in combat.
So, these women are going to have sexual assult PTSD and combat PTSD?
Def not saying it should be an excuse, feel bad for the women who want to go to combat...but this has to be fixed.
We aren't talking about women in their 30s who have thought it through. This is an invincible 18 yr old making the decision.
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| Posted 1/30/13 8:12 AM |
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MrsPenthouse
LIF Adult
Member since 11/10 924 total posts
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Re: Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
Posted by Janice
I think different issues have to be sorted out before this.
One in every 3 active military women have been sexually assulted. Last year, this was ruled as an occupational job hazard.
The only way it ends for these women is suicide or AWOL.
Evidence is lost and they are brought up on charges of adultry. Nothing is done to him.
PTSD is a crazy, sad situation. I have seen young wives and their black eyes, beaten. Faces when their spouses return home.
It is reported that a woman who was assulted has worse case of PTSD then a man in combat.
So, these women are going to have sexual assult PTSD and combat PTSD?
Def not saying it should be an excuse, feel bad for the women who want to go to combat...but this has to be fixed.
We aren't talking about women in their 30s who have thought it through. This is an invincible 18 yr old making the decision.
I never considered these points. Going to watch Invisible War and research...how terrible.
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| Posted 1/30/13 8:24 AM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
Posted by Janice
I think different issues have to be sorted out before this.
One in every 3 active military women have been sexually assulted. Last year, this was ruled as an occupational job hazard.
The only way it ends for these women is suicide or AWOL.
Evidence is lost and they are brought up on charges of adultry. Nothing is done to him.
PTSD is a crazy, sad situation. I have seen young wives and their black eyes, beaten. Faces when their spouses return home.
It is reported that a woman who was assulted has worse case of PTSD then a man in combat.
So, these women are going to have sexual assult PTSD and combat PTSD?
Def not saying it should be an excuse, feel bad for the women who want to go to combat...but this has to be fixed.
We aren't talking about women in their 30s who have thought it through. This is an invincible 18 yr old making the decision.
I do think these are interesting points.
My issues with them are, though, do we punish the WOMEN for something that is being done TO them? Women can't go into combat because some MEN are assholes? That seems like double punishment. I absolutely think the epidemic of sexual assault in the military needs to be addressed - but by keeping women out of combat roles or other roles that could advance their careers? That doesn't seem fair at all.
As for the age of the women - men who enlist are the same age. I'm sure you didn't mean it this way but to me that almost reads like women can't be trusted to make these decisions for themselves, while men can.
There are lots of issues with a mainly-male organization such as the military. I just don't feel as though the answer to systemic problems is to 'protect' women by keeping them out.
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| Posted 1/30/13 8:28 AM |
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halfbaked
LIF Adult
Member since 8/12 6937 total posts
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Re: Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
Posted by kimmaymb20
As long as they do not lessen the standards for women I'm for it.
This exactly. I am well aware that men and women are built differently, but each woman isn't built the same either. There are plenty of women who I look at and think they are strong and tough and I wouldn't want to get into a fight with them, just like there are plenty of men who I look at and think "Man, I could so kick your assss." 
But the standards should be the same across the board.
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| Posted 1/30/13 8:33 AM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by NervousNell
There was actually a very well written editorial in Newsday this weekend- by a woman- stating her reasons why she is against it.
I am not saying that I agree with her- but she brought up some good points and she wrote very well when explaining her point of view.
I will see if I can find it.
Please. I really haven't heard any arguments against that make sense to me, or that don't have stronger counter-arguments.
Here is the editorial I was talking about.
If you can't access it through this link let me know and I will cut and paste.
Newsday Piece
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| Posted 1/30/13 9:54 AM |
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neener1211
:-)
Member since 4/07 22952 total posts
Name:
J
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Re: Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
I haven't read all the details, but the first thing in my mind when I heard it was, will women now have to register at 18 to be in the military?
I don't know why I thought that, but I did.
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| Posted 1/30/13 9:55 AM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by NervousNell
There was actually a very well written editorial in Newsday this weekend- by a woman- stating her reasons why she is against it.
I am not saying that I agree with her- but she brought up some good points and she wrote very well when explaining her point of view.
I will see if I can find it.
Please. I really haven't heard any arguments against that make sense to me, or that don't have stronger counter-arguments.
Here is the editorial I was talking about.
If you can't access it through this link let me know and I will cut and paste.
Newsday Piece
Thanks. The points in this piece that resonate with me even a little were also the ones mentioned in this thread. However, I think an article or editorial by a woman within the military would also be very beneficial to this debate.
I'm still not swayed. I haven't heard one argument that doesn't have a stronger counter-argument, IMO.
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| Posted 1/30/13 9:59 AM |
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sometimesmommy
Always in my heart.....
Member since 11/06 6686 total posts
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Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
I wouldnt say I am against it. I think that the women who do end up on the frontline need to be better prepared. Basic training is a joke compared to what these women will encounter and thats where my concern lies.
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| Posted 1/30/13 10:37 AM |
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JessInCA
live laugh love
Member since 8/06 5082 total posts
Name:
Jess
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Re: Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
Posted by MandJZ
I think an article or editorial by a woman within the military would also be very beneficial to this debate.
I was talking about this over the weekend with a (female) friend of mine who was active duty for 8 years and deployed to both Iraq and Afghanistan multiple times. She's all for equality and leadership opportunities, but is against women in the infantry unless they have their own female unit. Her primary concerns were sexual harrassment and assault, as well as lowering overall combat effectiveness.
After hearing her out and listening to some of the things she's experienced herself, I feel like it's all well and good for those of us who have not BTDT to want these "ideals." It really SHOULDN'T matter if you're male or female, as long as you can get the job done, and women SHOULD have the same opportunities for advancement that their male counterparts have - I don't think anyone would argue with that.
But the military is not like most other careers, and if gender equality is not the reality when you get there - if, no matter how WRONG it is, simply being a woman puts you in serious danger of being assaulted by one of your own colleagues who you're supposed to trust with your very life in the most stressful of stressful situations - if that's what's likely in store for a young woman at war, is it really wise for lawmakers to institute this policy change without first taking drastic steps to change the culture?
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| Posted 1/30/13 12:05 PM |
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Janice
Sweet Jessie Quinn
Member since 5/05 27567 total posts
Name:
Janice
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Re: Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
Posted by MandJZ
I do think these are interesting points.
My issues with them are, though, do we punish the WOMEN for something that is being done TO them? Women can't go into combat because some MEN are assholes? That seems like double punishment. I absolutely think the epidemic of sexual assault in the military needs to be addressed - but by keeping women out of combat roles or other roles that could advance their careers? That doesn't seem fair at all.
As for the age of the women - men who enlist are the same age. I'm sure you didn't mean it this way but to me that almost reads like women can't be trusted to make these decisions for themselves, while men can.
There are lots of issues with a mainly-male organization such as the military. I just don't feel as though the answer to systemic problems is to 'protect' women by keeping them out.
At 18, i do worry that women are not doing full research.
Our military IS punishing women for being victims.
A recruiter will not tell a woman about their rape policy. A judge ruled it a job hazard.
You are two times more likely to get raped in the military then as a civilian.
At 18, I think women do need an advocate. I say this because at 17, I enlisted. I was in fear of not getting my scholarship-pressure got to me as well as the right recruiter.
Thank god, my scholarship did come through-i was able to get out with the help of a congressman. I was lied to about my future orders by the recruiter.
i don't think this is a PC situation or a situation for women's rights. not now. it is not the right time.
The fact that women are currently being treated like this needs to be addressed and fixed first.
18 is young to take on a decision like being trapped in a situation where there is 1/3 chance you will be raped by your coworkers.
It is a shame, it isn't right0but i don't think much about combat zones are right or play by civilian rules.
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| Posted 1/30/13 2:16 PM |
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Janice
Sweet Jessie Quinn
Member since 5/05 27567 total posts
Name:
Janice
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Re: Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
Posted by JessInCA
But the military is not like most other careers, and if gender equality is not the reality when you get there - if, no matter how WRONG it is, simply being a woman puts you in serious danger of being assaulted by one of your own colleagues who you're supposed to trust with your very life in the most stressful of stressful situations - if that's what's likely in store for a young woman at war, is it really wise for lawmakers to institute this policy change without first taking drastic steps to change the culture?
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| Posted 1/30/13 2:24 PM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
Name:
BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
Posted by JessInCA
But the military is not like most other careers, and if gender equality is not the reality when you get there - if, no matter how WRONG it is, simply being a woman puts you in serious danger of being assaulted by one of your own colleagues who you're supposed to trust with your very life in the most stressful of stressful situations - if that's what's likely in store for a young woman at war, is it really wise for lawmakers to institute this policy change without first taking drastic steps to change the culture?
I completely agree.
My cousin is a JAG officer. 9 out of 10 cases she tries is for RAPE. She went in as an officer and an attorney so her military experience has been vastly different from the young (and naive) women that enlist.
She said what goes on with these cases is atrocious and been going on for DECADES. It's the military mentality. Kind of like don't ask, don't tell. It's just how things are. End of story.
Until the government and military deals with this situation I don't see it being a wise choice for women in the military to see combat.
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| Posted 1/30/13 2:36 PM |
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Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
While I see that aspect above, women don't have to be in combat roles in order to get raped. Know what I mean?
Women are deployed and put in different housing sections but still can get raped. There is always opportunity if a man wants to rape.
I know they need to change their BS practices with handling rape accusations. I just find it disheartening that a woman can't do what she wants because of it.
I've seen so many successful and brave women who leave their kids behind and family and serve. To think that they can't to what the boys do (so to speak) sickens me.
The best people to put on the dangerous missions, outside the wire, and front lines are the people who know the risks and still want to do it.
Regardless of differing opinions, of which i can respect, it sure is an interesting and timely topic to discuss.
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| Posted 1/30/13 2:54 PM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
Name:
BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
While I see that aspect above, women don't have to be in combat roles in order to get raped. Know what I mean?
Women are deployed and put in different housing sections but still can get raped. There is always opportunity if a man wants to rape.
I know they need to change their BS practices with handling rape accusations. I just find it disheartening that a woman can't do what she wants because of it.
I've seen so many successful and brave women who leave their kids behind and family and serve. To think that they can't to what the boys do (so to speak) sickens me.
The best people to put on the dangerous missions, outside the wire, and front lines are the people who know the risks and still want to do it.
Regardless of differing opinions, of which i can respect, it sure is an interesting and timely topic to discuss.
This line of thought makes me think, "it's good to want".
Yes, women can be raped anywhere, but why would anyone want to put themselves in a position where they stand a greater chance of it happening? Sick as this line of thought is!
While I agree that women are equally brave, patriotic, and deserving of the right to fight for our country I can't get passed knowing that by allowing that right without fixing what's wrong first only jeopardizes our women soldiers.
Right or wrong until the military's notion that rape is the woman's fault and it is acceptable to turn a blind eye to it, it is my opinion that women should stay off the front lines.
To this point, I think it's purposefully not addressed by military brass so as to keep women at bay and off the front lines. Call me crazy but I do think there is an old boys club mentality there and I do think they look the other way when it comes to the rapes so that it makes women think twice about fighting on the front lines.
It's a VERY very sad situation and it needs to be addressed.
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| Posted 1/30/13 3:19 PM |
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Sweetlax22
LIF Adult
Member since 5/10 1904 total posts
Name:
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Re: Are people actually against allowing women in combat roles?
Posted by LiveForMoments
However, the argument that Kelly Ripa (of all people) brought up really struck me. She brought up the issue of treatment and torture of POWs. It is terrible what these men have lived through, and died from. But what would happen to a woman if she was captured and tortured is unthinkable, it is on an entirely different level. And while this may not be common, it will still exist and honestly gives me chills to think about.
Unfortunately men and women are not physically equal - and that is not an opinion, it is science.
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While women's rights have come a long way in the USA they have not in many other parts of the world, ESP the places we are currently in conflicts with. I feel women are more likely to be targets putting others around them in danger , similar to when prince William and prince Harry were in combat everything had to be kept top secret bc they are more of a target , thus putting the others around them in more danger.
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| Posted 1/30/13 3:46 PM |
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