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JRG71
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Member since 5/05 5025 total posts
Name:
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Re: autistic son and mom kicked off plane
Posted by smdl
Posted by JRG71
You've never waited on a runway before?
All it takes is one call from the pilot to ATC to say hey listen we have situation on our aircraft - we need to secure the cabin. If the crew can't do it within a resonable amount of time, then yes remove the family.
Yes I have waited many times but since none of us really know what happened, we can't really condemn just the airlines. They are the best judge of the situation at the time. Maybe it's was very busy and it was holding other planes. The bottom line is disability or not, you can't have unsecured passengers before taking off. It does take more than just a few minutes to make it from the gate to the runway so apparently it was not just a few minute issue.
You're right - None of us know what really happened. But from these incidents (I'll include the peanut incident as well), American Airlines is setting a precedent - And that precedent is that if you have a special need - American Airlines isn't the carrier you want to fly.
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Posted 6/26/08 11:14 AM  |
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sticklee
LIF Adult
Member since 8/06 2984 total posts
Name:
Stick
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Re: autistic son and mom kicked off plane
why does this have to be about the child being autistic? why can't it be about an uncontrollable child, a parent who can't calm him down, and the removal of the unruly people?
autistic or not, unruly and disruptive people are going to be removed from the plane. using the child's disability to make the airline to be the big bad wolf is quite disgusting.
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| Posted 6/26/08 12:16 PM |
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PrincessP
Big sister!!!!!!!!!!
Member since 12/05 17450 total posts
Name:
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Re: autistic son and mom kicked off plane
Posted by sticklee
why does this have to be about the child being autistic? why can't it be about an uncontrollable child, a parent who can't calm him down, and the removal of the unruly people?
autistic or not, unruly and disruptive people are going to be removed from the plane. using the child's disability to make the airline to be the big bad wolf is quite disgusting.
"using the childs disability"?
The childs disability is why this happened.
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| Posted 6/26/08 12:58 PM |
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GioiaMia
Let's Go Rangers!
Member since 1/07 14818 total posts
Name:
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Re: autistic son and mom kicked off plane
Posted by PrincessP
Posted by sticklee
why does this have to be about the child being autistic? why can't it be about an uncontrollable child, a parent who can't calm him down, and the removal of the unruly people?
autistic or not, unruly and disruptive people are going to be removed from the plane. using the child's disability to make the airline to be the big bad wolf is quite disgusting.
"using the childs disability"?
The childs disability is why this happened.
Right. This wasn't a temper tantrum that the mother could control. It can be better explained as a uncontrollable reaction to a stimulus. What if the child had periodic seizures? Would someone ask the mother to kindly control her child? As I stated before, I feel like there SHOULD be some way for people with special needs to fly that also takes into account the safety of the other passengers.
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| Posted 6/26/08 1:06 PM |
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Re: autistic son and mom kicked off plane
This is a tough one. This is what I do and when it comes to autism you can't always anticipate what will trigger a meltdown or what will calm them. Those tantrums can be scary to someone unfamiliar. I think the staff didn't help but what would they know. I wouldn't be thrilled as a passenger, but I probably would have tried to help.
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| Posted 6/26/08 1:51 PM |
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Re: autistic son and mom kicked off plane
Posted by PrincessP
Posted by sticklee
why does this have to be about the child being autistic? why can't it be about an uncontrollable child, a parent who can't calm him down, and the removal of the unruly people?
autistic or not, unruly and disruptive people are going to be removed from the plane. using the child's disability to make the airline to be the big bad wolf is quite disgusting.
"using the childs disability"?
The childs disability is why this happened.
THANK you!!! His behavior is a manifestation of his disability. The airline would be in trouble If they didn't have wheel chair accomodations and kicked someone off for being defiant because he refused to walk!
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| Posted 6/26/08 1:57 PM |
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PegaLega
Lets Get This!!!!!
Member since 1/07 1110 total posts
Name:
Peggie
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Re: autistic son and mom kicked off plane
Posted by sticklee
why does this have to be about the child being autistic? why can't it be about an uncontrollable child, a parent who can't calm him down, and the removal of the unruly people?
autistic or not, unruly and disruptive people are going to be removed from the plane. using the child's disability to make the airline to be the big bad wolf is quite disgusting.
I kind of agree, I know plenty of people and have seen plenty of people who have children with no disability and they cant control them to save their lives-I dont think it should be much different in this case.
And yes, I have a family member who is autistic and they dont use his disability as an excuse for behavior that could be considered behavior of a child. I agree that the tantrums, outbursts and actions are x10 but all are still part of a child personality
Message edited 6/26/2008 2:03:18 PM.
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| Posted 6/26/08 2:02 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: autistic son and mom kicked off plane
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by PrincessP
Posted by sticklee
why does this have to be about the child being autistic? why can't it be about an uncontrollable child, a parent who can't calm him down, and the removal of the unruly people?
autistic or not, unruly and disruptive people are going to be removed from the plane. using the child's disability to make the airline to be the big bad wolf is quite disgusting.
"using the childs disability"?
The childs disability is why this happened.
THANK you!!! His behavior is a manifestation of his disability. The airline would be in trouble If they didn't have wheel chair accomodations and kicked someone off for being defiant because he refused to walk!
I think what she means is the any child can have a tantrum. You can't really control a toddler having a fit either. You can't always reason them either when they have a tantrum.
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| Posted 6/26/08 2:11 PM |
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Re: autistic son and mom kicked off plane
Posted by groovypeg
Posted by stinkysmom80
I duno, it sounds a little exaggerated.
I cant believe that the crew were yelling at 2 year old.
actually it can happen and it happened to me.
i was a 1:1 for a little boy and i traveled to florida with them for vacation and the crew was so rude, and they did yell at us and did not understand that the little boy had autism.
people who have autism have every right to fly. we tried to prepare him as best as possible. we chose a flight that was not as crowded and i practiced everyday with him in an actual airplane seat that was donated to the school so he could learn how to sit on a plane.
unfortunately in the moment the air pressure changed aggravated him and he did not want to sit. we did the best we could but the crew definitiely did not help.
ohhh Jo, I know that child well!!! And he is awesome but requires a lot of patience any understanding!!!! Lol!
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| Posted 6/26/08 2:20 PM |
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Porrruss
Nya nya nya
Member since 5/05 11618 total posts
Name:
Amy
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Re: autistic son and mom kicked off plane
Posted by Tilde
Posted by PrincessP
Posted by sticklee
why does this have to be about the child being autistic? why can't it be about an uncontrollable child, a parent who can't calm him down, and the removal of the unruly people?
autistic or not, unruly and disruptive people are going to be removed from the plane. using the child's disability to make the airline to be the big bad wolf is quite disgusting.
"using the childs disability"?
The childs disability is why this happened.
Right. This wasn't a temper tantrum that the mother could control. It can be better explained as a uncontrollable reaction to a stimulus. What if the child had periodic seizures? Would someone ask the mother to kindly control her child? As I stated before, I feel like there SHOULD be some way for people with special needs to fly that also takes into account the safety of the other passengers.
Actually- if someone were to have a seizure on a flight, then the plane would have to be taxied back to the gate and that passenger would be removed by medical personell. It would be illegal to fly without medical clearance after such an incident.
I was a flight attendant for 14 years (2 different carriers) and only just left the industry a few months ago. I've watched the industry change dramatically since 9/11. Whereas before we used to have time to deal with such situations, nowadays the pressure to keep on time is unbelieveable- to both the airline and the crew. I would also like to add that for most of my carrier when I worked at my second airline I was getting my degree in speech pathology and had MUCH experience with various disabilities- including autism.
I've had MANY instances where we had passengers removed due to an inability to follow Federal Aviation Regulations. If that plane was pushed off the gate and the child (disability or not) became *unsecured*, unless we can quickly get the situation remedied (and many times we did), often there is no other solution but to remove the passenger and book them on another flight.
I have to say, I am often amazed at the tales spun by various passengers to get compensation. I once had to have a couple pulled off a flight because they refused to buckle their unruly 4 year old into a seat for take-off and then for landing. The mother wanted her to sit on her lap so she could nurse. Well- its against FARs for children over 2 to be on a lap and it wasn't worth losing MY job to suit them. I was able to reason with them for take-off, but for landing they flat-out refused. We had to pull them off at the next stop (they were continuing on). Well- the inevitable complaint letter came in saying that I refused a nursing mother the time to feed her baby. They also wanted money as well as free tickets or they would go to the media with their story. Thank goodness I had the presence of mind to gather witness accounts from other passengers or I MIGHT have been held accountable.
Perhaps their WAS a lack of compassion on that flight. BUT- none of us were there. If it got to the point that this child was rolling around on the floor uncontrollable, then the crew had to do what is required by law- or risk getting fined, losing their license (pilots), or even being suspended/terminated. Sorry- with the cost of living what it is, losing a paycheck is NOT an option, regardless of what may be "morally" the high road.
I do agree that sensitivity training provided should now also include the behaviors often seen with autism.
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| Posted 6/26/08 3:40 PM |
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Porrruss
Nya nya nya
Member since 5/05 11618 total posts
Name:
Amy
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Re: autistic son and mom kicked off plane
Also wanted to add: what the parents of this particular child might want to do in the future is to bring along a child safety seat with a five-point harness. This way, the child WILL be secured, (creaming his/her head off perhaps)but at least is still within the guidelines of "secure" as per the FAA.
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| Posted 6/26/08 3:43 PM |
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GioiaMia
Let's Go Rangers!
Member since 1/07 14818 total posts
Name:
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Re: autistic son and mom kicked off plane
Posted by Porrruss
Posted by Tilde
Posted by PrincessP
Posted by sticklee
why does this have to be about the child being autistic? why can't it be about an uncontrollable child, a parent who can't calm him down, and the removal of the unruly people?
autistic or not, unruly and disruptive people are going to be removed from the plane. using the child's disability to make the airline to be the big bad wolf is quite disgusting.
"using the childs disability"?
The childs disability is why this happened.
Right. This wasn't a temper tantrum that the mother could control. It can be better explained as a uncontrollable reaction to a stimulus. What if the child had periodic seizures? Would someone ask the mother to kindly control her child? As I stated before, I feel like there SHOULD be some way for people with special needs to fly that also takes into account the safety of the other passengers.
Actually- if someone were to have a seizure on a flight, then the plane would have to be taxied back to the gate and that passenger would be removed by medical personell. It would be illegal to fly without medical clearance after such an incident.
I understand that, I am just explaining the difference between a child without special needs having a temper tantrum AND a child with autism not being able to process a sound or feeling and reacting violently to it.
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| Posted 6/26/08 3:47 PM |
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lilacwine
only love...
Member since 5/05 2034 total posts
Name:
<3
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Re: autistic son and mom kicked off plane
Posted by Porrruss
Posted by Tilde
Posted by PrincessP
Posted by sticklee
why does this have to be about the child being autistic? why can't it be about an uncontrollable child, a parent who can't calm him down, and the removal of the unruly people?
autistic or not, unruly and disruptive people are going to be removed from the plane. using the child's disability to make the airline to be the big bad wolf is quite disgusting.
"using the childs disability"?
The childs disability is why this happened.
Right. This wasn't a temper tantrum that the mother could control. It can be better explained as a uncontrollable reaction to a stimulus. What if the child had periodic seizures? Would someone ask the mother to kindly control her child? As I stated before, I feel like there SHOULD be some way for people with special needs to fly that also takes into account the safety of the other passengers.
Actually- if someone were to have a seizure on a flight, then the plane would have to be taxied back to the gate and that passenger would be removed by medical personell. It would be illegal to fly without medical clearance after such an incident.
I was a flight attendant for 14 years (2 different carriers) and only just left the industry a few months ago. I've watched the industry change dramatically since 9/11. Whereas before we used to have time to deal with such situations, nowadays the pressure to keep on time is unbelieveable- to both the airline and the crew. I would also like to add that for most of my carrier when I worked at my second airline I was getting my degree in speech pathology and had MUCH experience with various disabilities- including autism.
I've had MANY instances where we had passengers removed due to an inability to follow Federal Aviation Regulations. If that plane was pushed off the gate and the child (disability or not) became *unsecured*, unless we can quickly get the situation remedied (and many times we did), often there is no other solution but to remove the passenger and book them on another flight.
I have to say, I am often amazed at the tales spun by various passengers to get compensation. I once had to have a couple pulled off a flight because they refused to buckle their unruly 4 year old into a seat for take-off and then for landing. The mother wanted her to sit on her lap so she could nurse. Well- its against FARs for children over 2 to be on a lap and it wasn't worth losing MY job to suit them. I was able to reason with them for take-off, but for landing they flat-out refused. We had to pull them off at the next stop (they were continuing on). Well- the inevitable complaint letter came in saying that I refused a nursing mother the time to feed her baby. They also wanted money as well as free tickets or they would go to the media with their story. Thank goodness I had the presence of mind to gather witness accounts from other passengers or I MIGHT have been held accountable.
Perhaps their WAS a lack of compassion on that flight. BUT- none of us were there. If it got to the point that this child was rolling around on the floor uncontrollable, then the crew had to do what is required by law- or risk getting fined, losing their license (pilots), or even being suspended/terminated. Sorry- with the cost of living what it is, losing a paycheck is NOT an option, regardless of what may be "morally" the high road.
I do agree that sensitivity training provided should now also include the behaviors often seen with autism.
Thank you for posting this important and knowledgable point of view. 
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| Posted 6/26/08 3:48 PM |
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Porrruss
Nya nya nya
Member since 5/05 11618 total posts
Name:
Amy
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Re: autistic son and mom kicked off plane
Posted by Tilde
I understand that, I am just explaining the difference between a child without special needs having a temper tantrum AND a child with autism not being able to process a sound or feeling and reacting violently to it.
I know what you were getting at. The truth of the matter is though: regardless of disability vs. typical toddler behavior the outcome is the same in the airline industry. It was the crew's responsibilty to get that cabin secured in a timely matter. Regardless of the reason behind the tantrum, unless it could quickly be remediated, then the passenger had to be removed.
Sadly in these types of situations, the parents are ultimately the ones who are most responsible when it comes to dealing with their child's disability since the training flight attendants go through really only gloss the surface about dealing with passengers with neurologic disabilities.
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| Posted 6/26/08 3:59 PM |
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LittleBlueBug
Happy Mommy
Member since 9/06 4074 total posts
Name:
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Re: autistic son and mom kicked off plane
I just don't understand how he wound up rolling around on the floor? I was not there, so I can't say if what the airline did or did not do was appropriate, but from what I recollect everyone has to be seatbealted before take-off, no?
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| Posted 6/26/08 7:14 PM |
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