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dandr10199
Grace is growing up too fast!
Member since 10/05 11561 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
So, I feel like The godfather here as i thought I was out and felt myself getting pulled back into the political threads of LIF. 
Got your  ...GOOD!
Here goes...
I support the McCain /Palin ticket. So yes, this thread is biased. PLEASE do not be "captain obvious" and state how biased I am. I AM. I KNOW it.
I support McCain /Palin because I know that as much as I love her, Rob's Nana will not win this election (sorry Nana) . I digress...
In the last few weeks my love affair with Sarah Palin has gone from HOT to lukewarm. The interviews with Katie Couric were in a word...painful to watch. I know they were edited to get ratings, make Palin look like a moron, and to get Couric some of her street cred back as a news anchor after being third in nightly news ratings over the last year.
Yet, I found myself routing for my gal and wanting her to hold her own in the debate last night. I feel that she did hold her own. She spoke to America and I along with countless others felt the spark rise up inside of me again. As she spoke, I knew that Biden would not mop the floor with her, she would challenge him. I felt that she did that. Considering that the moderator wrote a book praising Obama, the Couric interviews, and the press feeding her to the wolves since she came on the scene... I think that Palin was the underdog in this debate. Palin proved last night that she "has a set" and is a force to be reckoned with whether you agree with her on policy or not. As for the accent, the "joe six pack", the "hockey /soccer mom" comments...it is her way of reaching out to the MANY Americans who feel forgotten in a world of Ivy League Elitists who pick on accents, mannerisms, and dictation. JMHO, The more the NYTimes, Washington Post, Couric's, John Stewart's and Tina Fey's of the world pick on her; the more average "Joe six pack" rallies behind her. Brilliant strategy, IMHO.
I am not saying that she is the BEST candidate out there. Biden is not the BEST candidate either. I agree with her & Mccain on a few major things...like LOW TAXES, stimulating the economy through low taxes and energy independence, abortion and not immediately pulling out of Iraq.
Biden held his own as well. When he spoke about not knowing if his son was going to make it, I started crying. I would have a beer with him and Obama. I like them as people. I commend them for being passionate about what they believe this country needs. I just do not want them NEAR my wallet. I own a small business so their tax plan is SCARY to me. Not to mention their views on Health care, abortion, BIG GOVERNMENT.
Bottom line...I call the debate a draw. 
Message edited 10/3/2008 3:50:05 PM.
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Posted 10/3/08 3:41 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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Cpt2007
A new love!
Member since 1/08 5946 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
agree. The expectations for both were set well before so I don't think there was going to be any thing other than a draw/tie.
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| Posted 10/3/08 3:53 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
the Gwen Ifill comment notwithstanding (  ) I agree to a certain extent.
I feel that Palin was definitely successful in reaching out to her core, but I also feel that Biden more than adequately showed just how qualified he is.
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| Posted 10/3/08 3:57 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
Thank you for posting it. I can stop stalking your posts.
I saw recaps on several channels to see how they were rating them. I couldn't watch the whole debate as I was out. From what I saw she did better than I expected on some levels & worse on others.
I saw how she was trying to reach out to the middle america - clearly that is their strategy.
Do you think it's working?
eta. and I am totally taping SNL as they will have her wink for sure.
Message edited 10/3/2008 4:05:51 PM.
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| Posted 10/3/08 4:04 PM |
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leighdvm
My golden boys!
Member since 3/06 4419 total posts
Name:
Michele
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
Dina, you're my hero!  
Not only do I totally agree with you, I admire how you posted your opinion without insulting the other side with a brainless insult....nicely done....
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| Posted 10/3/08 4:05 PM |
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DandN
Twins are here!
Member since 3/06 3597 total posts
Name:
Deirdre
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
I think the initial post is great and conveys what a lot of other people feel about Palin.
I think she's very likable and injected a sense of energy into McCain's campaign that wasnt there before. I think her presence on the ticket has ignited conversations about gender, the definition of feminism, the qualifications for elected office, among other things. . . and while we wont always agree or even reach a consensus about these topics - having the conversations are the most important thing.
I also think she has been treated fairly by the media who largely didnt know who she was (outside of Alaska) before she was picked. I think journalists must ask tough questions of any candidate. I dont think the media went after her in the way that some pundits have said. I'm not sure what approach they would have preferred.
Tina Fey does a great impression of her. Dana Carvey did a great impression of George HW Bush. Phil Hartmann did a great Clinton. . . and whoever it is who does W does a good job too. This is part of the job of being in the public eye.
I think that there are too many "news" shows on 24/7 that do little else but insert partisan bickering into coverage. Everything is about saying how one candidate is right and one is wrong. On some networks Palin could kick a puppy and some commentators would say "well obviously the puppy deserved it" and on other networks Obama could eat the puppy and these analysts would say "obviously he's on the forefront of fabulous cuisine." It's as if these "anchors" (and I mean that with loads of sarcasm) cant possibly say that the other candidate has done one thing right. It becomes a cycle of name calling and it filters down to water cooler conversations.
When Hillary complained that the men who were running against her for the Democratic nomination were being tough on her because she was a woman, I cried foul. She got a lot of heat for saying that - Palin even had something to say about that. So I generally dont give much credence to any politician going down this line of attack.
I think a lot of women see themselves in Palin. When she was holding her son Trig after the debate I felt pride - I can see some of myself in her story and even though I wont be voting for her, I can appreciate her ambition and success. I just wish that women could talk openly about seeing themselves, or parts of themselves in BOTH women - Palin and Hillary - It doesnt have to be either/or. You dont have to hate one to like the other, and vice versa. (I'm not speaking about anyone on here - just generally) there is so much more that we all have in common than what we disagree on.
. . . and I'm sorry but I just have to add - Gwen Iffil's book is a history book about black politicans- it's not a book praising Obama. . . and she did a good job. . . (in the debate - the book hasnt come out yet)
Message edited 10/3/2008 4:10:02 PM.
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| Posted 10/3/08 4:06 PM |
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dandr10199
Grace is growing up too fast!
Member since 10/05 11561 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
Posted by nrthshgrl
Thank you for posting it. I can stop stalking your posts.
I saw recaps on several channels to see how they were rating them. I couldn't watch the whole debate as I was out. From what I saw she did better than I expected on some levels & worse on others.
I saw how she was trying to reach out to the middle america - clearly that is their strategy.
Do you think it's working?
Do I think it's working?...Hard to tell. I thik there are a lot of people that I have spoken with who feel the more they (Dems) gang up on her, the more they (Conservatives) want to back her. Most conservatives are not trilled, especially fiscal conservative who are social Democrats. Social conservatives love her. The fiscal Conservatives are going to hold their noses as the pull the lever on Nov 4th. If you are against big government (fiscal conservative), you cannot vote for Obama. Yet, the Palin factor urks you if you are a social democrat (pro-life, for gay civil unions/marriages). So you hold your nose and pick Mccain. KWIM?
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| Posted 10/3/08 4:10 PM |
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dandr10199
Grace is growing up too fast!
Member since 10/05 11561 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
Posted by leighdvm
Dina, you're my hero!
Not only do I totally agree with you, I admire how you posted your opinion without insulting the other side with a brainless insult....nicely done....
Thank you! Right back at ya! 
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| Posted 10/3/08 4:10 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
Posted by DandN
I think a lot of women see themselves in Palin. When she was holding her son Trig after the debate I felt pride - I can see some of myself in her story and even though I wont be voting for her, I can appreciate her ambition and success. I just wish that women could talk openly about seeing themselves, or parts of themselves in BOTH women - there is so much more that we all have in common than what we disagree on.
I don't see myself in Palin at all. I appreciate her ambition but not necessarily her success (which doesn't have to do with her politics which I disagree with). I don't like the cutesy remarks. It's not about elists ivy grads & middle america. I don't think it's professional - which makes me question her sucess. Frankly, as a woman, I'd have more respect with a pitbull wearing lipstick than someone winking & being "cute" during a VP debate.
I want her to answer a question she's been asked. I want politicians to answer the question they've been asked. As Vice President / President, you have a lot to answer for & I'm going to need the answers, not just what they want to talk about.
Message edited 10/3/2008 4:15:26 PM.
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| Posted 10/3/08 4:11 PM |
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BabyAvocado
Happy New Year
Member since 5/05 17334 total posts
Name:
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
I agree that she held her own in alot of areas. She did much better than I thought she would, than I think many people thought she would given her last few interviews.
However, I don't think her "Soccer Mom/Joe Six Pack" angle is as clever as some are giving her credit for. The winks and the almost baby talk made her lose points in my book.
She was the underdog, most definitely. I can appreciate your post and the way you stated your opinion, however, I completely disagree that it was draw. 
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| Posted 10/3/08 4:13 PM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
Posted by BabyAvocado
I agree that she held her own in alot of areas. She did much better than I thought she would, than I think many people thought she would given her last few interviews.
However, I don't think her "Soccer Mom/Joe Six Pack" angle is as clever as some are giving her credit for. The winks and the almost baby talk made her lose points in my book.
She was the underdog, most definitely. I can appreciate your post and the way you stated your opinion, however, I completely disagree that it was draw.
I agree with you completely ...especially the winking and baby talk 
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| Posted 10/3/08 4:15 PM |
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dandr10199
Grace is growing up too fast!
Member since 10/05 11561 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
Posted by DandN
I think the initial post is great and conveys what a lot of other people feel about Palin.
I think she's very likable and injected a sense of energy into McCain's campaign that wasnt there before. I think her presence on the ticket has ignited conversations about gender, the definition of feminism, the qualifications for elected office, among other things. . . and while we wont always agree or even reach a consensus about these topics - having the conversations are the most important thing.
I also think she has been treated fairly by the media who largely didnt know who she was (outside of Alaska) before she was picked. I think journalists must ask tough questions of any candidate. I dont think the media went after her in the way that some pundits have said. I'm not sure what approach they would have preferred.
Tina Fey does a great impression of her. Dana Carvey did a great impression of George HW Bush. Phil Hartmann did a great Clinton. . . and whoever it is who does W does a good job too. This is part of the job of being in the public eye.
I think that there are too many "news" shows on 24/7 that do little else but insert partisan bickering into coverage. Everything is about saying how one candidate is right and one is wrong. On some networks Palin could kick a puppy and some commentators would say "well obviously the puppy deserved it" and on other networks Obama could eat the puppy and these analysts would say "obviously he's on the forefront of fabulous cuisine." It's as if these "anchors" (and I mean that with loads of sarcasm) cant possibly say that the other candidate has done one thing right. It becomes a cycle of name calling and it filters down to water cooler conversations.
When Hillary complained that the men who were running against her for the Democratic nomination were being tough on her because she was a woman, I cried foul. She got a lot of heat for saying that - Palin even had something to say about that. So I generally dont give much credence to any politician going down this line of attack.
I think a lot of women see themselves in Palin. When she was holding her son Trig after the debate I felt pride - I can see some of myself in her story and even though I wont be voting for her, I can appreciate her ambition and success. I just wish that women could talk openly about seeing themselves, or parts of themselves in BOTH women - Palin and Hillary - It doesnt have to be either/or. You dont have to hate one to like the other, and vice versa. (I'm not speaking about anyone on here - just generally) there is so much more that we all have in common than what we disagree on.
. . . and I'm sorry but I just have to add - Gwen Iffil's book is a history book about black politicans- it's not a book praising Obama. . . and she did a good job. . . (in the debate - the book hasnt come out yet)
I appreciate your opinion. I agree with what you wrote about Hillary and Sarah and that there is more we agree about than we disagree about. I too felt pride when Palin was up there after the debate with her family.
BTW, the name of Gwen Iffel's book is: "The Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama" and from what I have read online and heard there is more than one chapter praising him. Let's just agree to disagree about that.
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| Posted 10/3/08 4:16 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
Dina, maybe on another thread or here, wherever,
I'd really like for you to explain to me how McCain's tax plan is more beneficial for you than Obama's? even in light of being a small business owner.
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| Posted 10/3/08 4:17 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
Posted by dandr10199
debate - the book hasnt come out yet)
BTW, the name of Gwen Iffel's book is: "The Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama" and from what I have read online and heard there is more than one chapter praising him. Let's just agree to disagree about that.
can you post links to that? I'd love to read it.
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| Posted 10/3/08 4:18 PM |
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DandN
Twins are here!
Member since 3/06 3597 total posts
Name:
Deirdre
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by DandN
I think a lot of women see themselves in Palin. When she was holding her son Trig after the debate I felt pride - I can see some of myself in her story and even though I wont be voting for her, I can appreciate her ambition and success. I just wish that women could talk openly about seeing themselves, or parts of themselves in BOTH women - there is so much more that we all have in common than what we disagree on.
I don't see myself in Palin at all. I appreciate her ambition but not necessarily her success (which doesn't have to do with her politics which I disagree with). I don't like the cutesy remarks. It's not about elists ivy grads & middle america. I don't think it's professional.
I want her to answer a question she's been asked. I want politicians to answer the question they've been asked. As Vice President / President, you have a lot to answer for & I'm going to need the answers, not just what they want to talk about.
I disagree with her politics as well - but I just think that the discussions on the cable news channels focus too much on dividing us into 2 camps, with little cross over. That's why I was glad to see Leiberman speak at the RNC. I wish he had endorsed my candidate - and to be honest, I didnt understand his endorsement of Palin (given that they disagree on everything except the war) but I thought it is healthy for people, particularly teenagers who havent voted yet - to see people not be defined solely by their party affiliation.
I also want to see a politican, ANY politican give a direct answer to a question posed to them - but sadly that seems pretty rare.
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| Posted 10/3/08 4:20 PM |
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dandr10199
Grace is growing up too fast!
Member since 10/05 11561 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
Posted by Ophelia
Dina, maybe on another thread or here, wherever,
I'd really like for you to explain to me how McCain's tax plan is more beneficial for you than Obama's? even in light of being a small business owner.
Oy vey! Where do I begin??? Jess, I may need some wine and and hour or two to explain it. 
Well, the "loopholes" in the tax codes that Obama and Biden talk about are for bigger or medium sized businesses (like over 50 employees), not mom & pop businesses where it is you and your family running the business. That is just one of the many issues I have with their plan.
Seriously, I have a folder on this stuff. I say we go out you, me, my folder, have a bottle of wine and I will show it to you. I do not want to be like the guy in "Airplane" and have skeletons surrounding us at the end of this thread if I start explaining everything I dislike about Obama's tax plan. .
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| Posted 10/3/08 4:24 PM |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10312 total posts
Name:
fka LIW Smara
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
Do you know your post is totally biased.
 to each his/her own stand by what you believe in.
We should have a Who you voted for Poll on election day. See how LIF voted on the actual day, it should be anonymous ofcourse.
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| Posted 10/3/08 4:28 PM |
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dandr10199
Grace is growing up too fast!
Member since 10/05 11561 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
Posted by Sash
Do you know your post is totally biased.
THANK YOU Capt'n Obvious!!!
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| Posted 10/3/08 4:30 PM |
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KvsGrl
Round 2!!
Member since 1/07 1202 total posts
Name:
Samantha
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
Posted by nrthshgrl
I don't see myself in Palin at all. I appreciate her ambition but not necessarily her success (which doesn't have to do with her politics which I disagree with). I don't like the cutesy remarks. It's not about elists ivy grads & middle america. I don't think it's professional - which makes me question her sucess. Frankly, as a woman, I'd have more respect with a pitbull wearing lipstick than someone winking & being "cute" during a VP debate.
I want her to answer a question she's been asked. I want politicians to answer the question they've been asked. As Vice President / President, you have a lot to answer for & I'm going to need the answers, not just what they want to talk about.
I agree with you 100%. A poster in another thread said it perfectly as well. I don't see my self in her. I don't relate to her. I don't want someone who considers themself average running this country. I don't think being "cute" is professional.
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| Posted 10/3/08 4:34 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
Posted by dandr10199
Oy vey! Where do I begin??? Jess, I may need some wine and and hour or two to explain it.
Well, the "loopholes" in the tax codes that Obama and Biden talk about are for bigger or medium sized businesses (like over 50 employees), not mom & pop businesses where it is you and your family running the business. That is just one of the many issues I have with their plan.
Seriously, I have a folder on this stuff. I say we go out you, me, my folder, have a bottle of wine and I will show it to you. I do not want to be like the guy in "Airplane" and have skeletons surrounding us at the end of this thread if I start explaining everything I dislike about Obama's tax plan. .
I am definitely up for that!
as for me, I let my dh review their tax plans....and he tells me who will help us...and since he be the expert in my family....I defer to him.
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| Posted 10/3/08 4:35 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
Posted by KvsGrl
Posted by nrthshgrl
I don't see myself in Palin at all. I appreciate her ambition but not necessarily her success (which doesn't have to do with her politics which I disagree with). I don't like the cutesy remarks. It's not about elists ivy grads & middle america. I don't think it's professional - which makes me question her sucess. Frankly, as a woman, I'd have more respect with a pitbull wearing lipstick than someone winking & being "cute" during a VP debate.
I want her to answer a question she's been asked. I want politicians to answer the question they've been asked. As Vice President / President, you have a lot to answer for & I'm going to need the answers, not just what they want to talk about.
I agree with you 100%. A poster in another thread said it perfectly as well. I don't see my self in her. I don't relate to her. I don't want someone who considers themself average running this country. I don't think being "cute" is professional.
you guys are east coast elitist.
no one on the east coast is poor. no one worries about putting their kids to school or paying for healthcare.
we are all snobs and have nothing in common with the rest of america.
THAT mentality gets the ROLLEYES! 
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| Posted 10/3/08 4:37 PM |
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
Posted by dandr10199
Posted by Ophelia
Dina, maybe on another thread or here, wherever,
I'd really like for you to explain to me how McCain's tax plan is more beneficial for you than Obama's? even in light of being a small business owner.
Oy vey! Where do I begin??? Jess, I may need some wine and and hour or two to explain it.
Well, the "loopholes" in the tax codes that Obama and Biden talk about are for bigger or medium sized businesses (like over 50 employees), not mom & pop businesses where it is you and your family running the business. That is just one of the many issues I have with their plan.
Seriously, I have a folder on this stuff. I say we go out you, me, my folder, have a bottle of wine and I will show it to you. I do not want to be like the guy in "Airplane" and have skeletons surrounding us at the end of this thread if I start explaining everything I dislike about Obama's tax plan. .
Where can one read about these "loopholes" where is your source, thanks
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| Posted 10/3/08 4:44 PM |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10312 total posts
Name:
fka LIW Smara
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
Posted by dandr10199
Posted by Sash
Do you know your post is totally biased.
THANK YOU Capt'n Obvious!!!
Had to say it, I love the phrase Capt'n obvious, cracks me up everytime.
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| Posted 10/3/08 5:00 PM |
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dandr10199
Grace is growing up too fast!
Member since 10/05 11561 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
Posted by secretbabymaker
Where can one read about these "loopholes" where is your source, thanks
Link to an article about it
Here's what this article says...
"Let’s start with the definition of a “small business.” Most will tell you that small-business income constitutes income derived from sole proprietorships, partnerships and Subchapter S corporations.
The conservative argument (and that of the John McCain campaign) is that Obama’s stated plan to raise taxes on households making $250,000 or more in income is a tax increase on small business. The simple answer to this dilemma can be found in the IRS Statistics of Income Bulletin (Table 1.4, for those who are interested).
So what do the data say?
In 2006 (the latest year available), $706 billion of such income was reported to the Internal Revenue Service. Of this, about half was reported by households in the top marginal income tax rate. Interestingly, two-thirds of this income was reported by households making $250,000 per year or more — the very same households that Obama wants to increase taxes on.
The Obama campaign maintains that the number of small-business owners is what’s important. Economists know what matters is the tax rate that’s applied to the bulk of small-business income. Make no mistake about it: Obama’s plan to raise taxes on households making more than $250,000 will raise taxes on most small-business profits in America.
What type of tax rate are we talking about? Currently, S corporations face a top tax rate of 35 percent, while sole proprietors and general partners face a tax rate of 37.9 percent (since they’re responsible for paying both income tax and the Medicare component of the payroll tax).
Under Obama’s plan to let the scheduled 2011 tax rate hikes occur, and his plan to raise the self-employment tax on those making more than $250,000, the S corporation rate would rise from 35 percent to 39.6 percent. The sole proprietor and partner rate would rise from 37.9 percent all the way up to a staggering 50.3 percent. Many Democrats in Congress have proposed making all small businesses (including S corporations) pay this 50-plus percent rate. A small business tax rate that high would be the highest marginal rate faced by them in nearly a quarter-century."
This is the same info my accountant gave to me. Basically, since I am an "S Corp" under Obama I would be taxed at 50%. Consider my income plus my DH's and although we are under $250K (which Obama considers "Rich") because we file jointly and my s corp is at 50% it gets complicated. Bottom line, we would be paying WAY more in taxes.
I have other sources, I have to pick up my DD from day care now and call a client before I do so. I can post more sources later on tonight or tomorrow.
Message edited 10/3/2008 5:07:13 PM.
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| Posted 10/3/08 5:03 PM |
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dandr10199
Grace is growing up too fast!
Member since 10/05 11561 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Beating a dead horse...The VP debate...
sorry xpost
Message edited 10/3/2008 5:04:23 PM.
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| Posted 10/3/08 5:03 PM |
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