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LadyMaravilla
Fall Is Here
Member since 5/05 12023 total posts
Name:
Sonia
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
I'm goiing to go ahead and put my 2 cents in here...speaking as someone who came to this country as a child illegaly with my parents, and now as a US Citizen...I can relate to both sides. As a child I knew nothing about being here legally or illegaly so to me I was just a child in this country like all other American children. I came here when I was 5. We went through the whole process of getting our Permanent Residency and later on became citizens. Back in the early 80's it was much easier for everyone to become "legal" now there is so much red tape that goes on that it's pretty much impossible and it all depends on the country you come from. I have seen and known people that are here illegaly who work their @$$e$ off for so little, but the American Dream is what drives them here. I have also seen those who come to this country to join gangs and make our society worse by becoming Leaches to our system. IMO there are different spectrums of the whole immigration issue. Many people want to become legal, to pay taxes, to move freely among the US without looking behind their backs all the time but it's easier said than done. Do I agree that people should be here illegally, no...but I do understand their situation.
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Posted 4/10/07 12:41 PM  |
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MrsPJB2007
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by MugzyB1025
Uh, let's see... They're ILLEGAL!!!! It's like someone breaking into your home, eating your food, sleeping in your bed, using your health insurance and saying YOU have to pay for them to be in school. YOU have to pay for them if they go to jail. And I won't pay a dime for using for home, eating your food and using your insurance because I'm hard working and do the jobs you won't do. I'm a really honest, good person EXCEPT for the fact that I broke into your home. Maybe that puts it into perspective for you. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against immigration. My step-mother is an immigrant from Colombia and her family is amazing. I love them to death. But she did it the RIGHT way and got a SS# and green card to be here... what makes the rest of them any different???
i'm sorry but i think you miss a big picture here....you say that your mom is from colombia and did it the "right way". well what about the ppl who CAN'T do it the right way cause they can't get permission to come here or be granted visas? the visa process to do things legitimately can take YEARS and YEARS. ppl who want to do it 'legally' have to wait up to 15 years to even be considered for a green card sometimes!
yes there is a problem of a huge influx of illegals in this country, but do you know what its like for them in their own countries? to live 15 to a shack, with no running water, electricity, and food?
we take for granted what we have in this country and turn our nose up at what it's like to really struggle. these ppl come her for a better life....do i think there needs to be better reform for immigration...yes. these ppl are here, creating families (and their children become citizens automatically so deporting them all would cause a lot of kids w/o parents who are CITIZENS of the U.S.) and many are trying to do what they can. the ones that are here should be made to pay taxes and assimilate into the society. but the attitude that these ppl are 2nd class or shoudln't be here is disgusting. america is a country of immigrants...unless you are a Native American...every person typing on this thread derived from immigrants...legal or not...try and remember what it was like for your families when they came here. years ago it was different to come to the U.S., so ppl can do it the "legal" way like theu used to
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| Posted 4/10/07 12:56 PM |
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Dolcezza
LIF Adolescent
Member since 5/06 768 total posts
Name:
Nina
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by MrsPJB2007
. but the attitude that these ppl are 2nd class or shoudln't be here is disgusting. america is a country of immigrants...unless you are a Native American...every person typing on this thread derived from immigrants...legal or not...try and remember what it was like for your families when they came here. years ago it was different to come to the U.S., so ppl can do it the "legal" way like theu used to
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| Posted 4/10/07 12:59 PM |
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karacg
Babygirl is 4!
Member since 5/05 17076 total posts
Name:
Kara®
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
During Reagan's and Clinton's eras, we lowered the borders because we NEEDED these people and we turned a blind eye to illegal entries. They were inadvertently invited to come here and work.
Now we want to throw them out? I don't think it's right - we should grant amnesty to all those who entered when we basically let them in the country - and those who come later, should be considered.
Without these illegal workers our economy will suffer much greater than we do by supporting them right now. Make them legal, let them pay taxes and contribute to our society.
I suggest reading Enrique's Journey -- when you see where most of these people are coming from you will understand why they are so incredibly desperate -- they are human beings, not cattle...
Message edited 4/10/2007 1:05:32 PM.
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| Posted 4/10/07 1:04 PM |
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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
I have a question. Why is it that we are assumed that we HAVE to allow immigration? (Please do not take this out of context, I know that all of us are of direct relation to someone who emmigrated....but please hear me out...) The truth of the matter is that although we are a society built on peoples from many different backgrounds & cultures, not every country in the world allows for such an open door policy. I'd love to live in England with my family, or in Sweden or Switzerland where their ideals match mine. Why don't I? Because it would be incredibly difficult to move there. I have nothing that offers a unique skill or trade, and in all reality would not be someone who could contribute anything new to their society. They have very strict policies & quotas, but they also have successful governments. Is there a correlation? Maybe, but they do not apologize for it whereas we do. They do, however, ensure that every citizen is documented. Just something to think about.
Now for the *problem* in the US, again I will say that the US Government makes it very difficult for honest people to come here legally. We all (indigenous persons excluded) had ancestors come here to live the "American Dream." It is unfair & makes the perception of the modern-day immigrant something different than those of many generations ago. Do we need more control? Maybe...but to allow something to get so out of hand that now any solution is detrimental to families and goverment alike is horrible & the Govt should be to blame, not the people who will suffer....KWIM?
Message edited 4/10/2007 1:09:33 PM.
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| Posted 4/10/07 1:07 PM |
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pharmcat2000
Mom of 2 + 1
Member since 10/05 7395 total posts
Name:
Catherine
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by MrsPJB2007
well what about the ppl who CAN'T do it the right way cause they can't get permission to come here or be granted visas? the visa process to do things legitimately can take YEARS and YEARS. ppl who want to do it 'legally' have to wait up to 15 years to even be considered for a green card sometimes!
try and remember what it was like for your families when they came here. years ago it was different to come to the U.S., so ppl can do it the "legal" way like theu used to
If they have to wait, then they have to wait. My grandparents had to wait, and then had to have a sponsor bring them over. Perhaps the reason there is such a long wait is because our social programs are stretched to the limit as they are.
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| Posted 4/10/07 1:10 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
So if I understand a lot of you... why did I bother doing it the right way all along? Why did I provide the immigration agencies with all kind of paperwork and affidavit that I would not be a "dead weight" to America? Why have I worked every day of my life here and never collected unemployment, food stamps, any kind of social aid? Why do I freaking bother paying taxes like everybody else?
Please tell me why I did not bother just coming here illegally, march in the street to b*tch about your stupid immigration policy, and make you speak my language.
Afterall, it appears people would have more sympathy for me than me doing it legally.
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| Posted 4/10/07 1:13 PM |
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MrsPJB2007
MBA at your service!
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MJ
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by pharmcat2000
Posted by MrsPJB2007
well what about the ppl who CAN'T do it the right way cause they can't get permission to come here or be granted visas? the visa process to do things legitimately can take YEARS and YEARS. ppl who want to do it 'legally' have to wait up to 15 years to even be considered for a green card sometimes!
try and remember what it was like for your families when they came here. years ago it was different to come to the U.S., so ppl can do it the "legal" way like theu used to
If they have to wait, then they have to wait. My grandparents had to wait, and then had to have a sponsor bring them over. Perhaps the reason there is such a long wait is because our social programs are stretched to the limit as they are.
i'm sorry but if i was one of those ppl coming from some of the areas that illegals come from...i wouldn't wait either. i file immigration paperwork for people to legalize their status...and i know what its like to sit across from someone who tells me that their village was taken over by militants or guerillas and they were forced to watch family members murdered and fled their country for that.
yes i know that not all illegals come from these situations, but when you are faced with the idea that your family can't survive or there is not enough food and water to go around because there is no money....you do that you have to do to survive...even if that means jumping over the rio grande to work for a few bucks in hour in the fields all day long.
kudos to your grandparents for waiting the legal way...but can you honestly tell me that they were in the same situation as some of these ppl?
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| Posted 4/10/07 1:15 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by MrsPJB2007
yes i know that not all illegals come from these situations, but when you are faced with the idea that your family can't survive or there is not enough food and water to go around because there is no money....you do that you have to do to survive...even if that means jumping over the rio grande to work for a few bucks in hour in the fields all day long.
kudos to your grandparents for waiting the legal way...but can you honestly tell me that they were in the same situation as some of these ppl?
So if I become poor and I can't feed my family, I should be able to justify a robbery because people are not in the situation as I am?
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| Posted 4/10/07 1:20 PM |
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MrsPJB2007
MBA at your service!
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MJ
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by smdl
So if I become poor and I can't feed my family, I should be able to justify a robbery because people are not in the situation as I am?
since when did robbery come into play? are you trying to say that all immigrants are robbers?
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| Posted 4/10/07 1:23 PM |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
I've said it before, and I'll say it again- I think this whole thing boils down to racism.. there is an article in today's NYTimes about a latin-american family that is here legally but was subjected to a forceful search of their home b/c the E. Hampton residents complain about them non-stop... b/c they have too many cars in their driveway, b/c they have volleyball games in their yards, etc... yet the Irish illegal migratory workers are left alone..
I think people would have a lot less to say if it were white english speaking children in their schools illegally as opposed to non-white, non-english speaking students...
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| Posted 4/10/07 1:35 PM |
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MrsPJB2007
MBA at your service!
Member since 7/06 12020 total posts
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MJ
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by Sassyz75
I've said it before, and I'll say it again- I think this whole thing boils down to racism.. there is an article in today's NYTimes about a latin-american family that is here legally but was subjected to a forceful search of their home b/c the E. Hampton residents complain about them non-stop... b/c they have too many cars in their driveway, b/c they have volleyball games in their yards, etc... yet the Irish illegal migratory workers are left alone..
I think people would have a lot less to say if it were white english speaking children in their schools illegally as opposed to non-white, non-english speaking students...
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| Posted 4/10/07 1:39 PM |
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july06bride
I'm a mom!
Member since 5/05 3966 total posts
Name:
Nicole
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by Sassyz75
I've said it before, and I'll say it again- I think this whole thing boils down to racism.. there is an article in today's NYTimes about a latin-american family that is here legally but was subjected to a forceful search of their home b/c the E. Hampton residents complain about them non-stop... b/c they have too many cars in their driveway, b/c they have volleyball games in their yards, etc... yet the Irish illegal migratory workers are left alone..
I think people would have a lot less to say if it were white english speaking children in their schools illegally as opposed to non-white, non-english speaking students...
sadly, I agree!
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| Posted 4/10/07 1:44 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by MrsPJB2007
Posted by smdl
So if I become poor and I can't feed my family, I should be able to justify a robbery because people are not in the situation as I am?
since when did robbery come into play? are you trying to say that all immigrants are robbers?
NOT AT ALL! This is what you said to justify why they are coming here illegally.
but when you are faced with the idea that your family can't survive or there is not enough food and water to go around because there is no money....you do that you have to do to survive...even if that means jumping over the rio grande to work for a few bucks in hour in the fields all day long.
All I said is that oneone here (American) can justify doing anything illegally because THEY HAVE TO.
Robery is one mean to feed your starving family. That does not justify the illegal actions.
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| Posted 4/10/07 1:45 PM |
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MrsPJB2007
MBA at your service!
Member since 7/06 12020 total posts
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MJ
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by smdl
Posted by MrsPJB2007
Posted by smdl
So if I become poor and I can't feed my family, I should be able to justify a robbery because people are not in the situation as I am?
since when did robbery come into play? are you trying to say that all immigrants are robbers?
NOT AT ALL! This is what you said to justify why they are coming here illegally.
but when you are faced with the idea that your family can't survive or there is not enough food and water to go around because there is no money....you do that you have to do to survive...even if that means jumping over the rio grande to work for a few bucks in hour in the fields all day long.
All I said is that oneone here (American) can justify doing anything illegally because THEY HAVE TO.
Robery is one mean to feed your starving family. That does not justify the illegal actions.
i'm sorry but i feel like you are stretching that statement. i never said that ppl do what they have to do and STEAL. i said that if someone has to cross over the border to MAKE MONEY (in a job) than that's what they do, and if you were put in the same situation, perhaps you would do that as well.
NEVER did i say that they should rob or steal...so please don't misconstrue what i'm saying at all.
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| Posted 4/10/07 1:53 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by MrsPJB2007
Posted by smdl
Posted by MrsPJB2007
Posted by smdl
So if I become poor and I can't feed my family, I should be able to justify a robbery because people are not in the situation as I am?
since when did robbery come into play? are you trying to say that all immigrants are robbers?
NOT AT ALL! This is what you said to justify why they are coming here illegally.
but when you are faced with the idea that your family can't survive or there is not enough food and water to go around because there is no money....you do that you have to do to survive...even if that means jumping over the rio grande to work for a few bucks in hour in the fields all day long.
All I said is that oneone here (American) can justify doing anything illegally because THEY HAVE TO.
Robery is one mean to feed your starving family. That does not justify the illegal actions.
i'm sorry but i feel like you are stretching that statement. i never said that ppl do what they have to do and STEAL. i said that if someone has to cross over the border to MAKE MONEY (in a job) than that's what they do, and if you were put in the same situation, perhaps you would do that as well.
NEVER did i say that they should rob or steal...so please don't misconstrue what i'm saying at all.
You are the one misunderstanding the statement. Please read! The point is everyone can justify doing something illegally because they feel it is justified. Robery to feed your family is one example, coming in a country where you are not allowed to stay is another example.
Bottom line... it's illegal!!! However you want to justify it.. it's still illegal!
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| Posted 4/10/07 2:16 PM |
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MrsPJB2007
MBA at your service!
Member since 7/06 12020 total posts
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MJ
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by smdl
You are the one misunderstanding the statement. Please read! The point is everyone can justify doing something illegally because they feel it is justified. Robery to feed your family is one example, coming in a country where you are not allowed to stay is another example.
Bottom line... it's illegal!!! However you want to justify it.. it's still illegal!
okay...fine it's illegal. i think you're comparing apples to oranges...but whatever. i don't think that ppl should be entering the country illegally...BUT i do think the ones that are HERE already should be allowed to work and pay taxes. (i did say that in a previous post) the OP on this thread was talking about how they didn't understand why all the illegals can't just be deported...which i think would be quite drastic.
i'm just curious...you said you came here legally....what country did you come from and how did you obtain your legal status? through marriage? school? the only reason i ask, is i'm curious if you came from a country that struggles like many of the south & central american countries that have so many immigrants coming into the country for a better life.
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| Posted 4/10/07 2:22 PM |
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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by MrsPJB2007
i'm just curious...you said you came here legally....what country did you come from and how did you obtain your legal status? through marriage? school? the only reason i ask, is i'm curious if you came from a country that struggles like many of the south & central american countries that have so many immigrants coming into the country for a better life.
I am wondering why this is relevant? Are only people who come from south & central american countries looking for a better life?
Message edited 4/10/2007 2:27:28 PM.
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| Posted 4/10/07 2:26 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
this is not a manifest destiny.
we cannot sit at a closed border, thumb our noses at millions of people and say "too bad your grandfather didn't have the forethought to come here sooner"
the thought is ridiculous. it is HARD AS HELL to get into this country now and sometimes peoples LIVES are at stake.
oh and GUESS WHAT...legality will not change a culture.
the same people that you call "illegals" playing volleyball with the many cars in the garage will be doing the same thing WITH THEIR GREEN CARD.
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| Posted 4/10/07 2:28 PM |
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lmnscc
LIF Adolescent
Member since 1/07 598 total posts
Name:
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by Maathy317
Posted by Tany
what is it that you have against illegal inmigrants?
Anyone who posts here has ancestors who were immigrants. All of them came to this country looking for a better way of life and entered the way they were supposed to. They learned the ways of this society and the language. They may have congregated into communities with like immigrants, but, when they entered the larger community they were eager to be a part of it and to contribute to it. People who come here illegally don't wish to do this. They want to take what they can, use the system to their advantage and send their resources back to another country. I don't care if they are brain surgeons or grave diggers. They contribute nothing to the society as a whole. Meanwhile, it is the honest, taxpaying citizens who take up the slack. We pay for their medical care, for the education of their children, for their housing. We shoulder the burden while they reap the benefits. I don't care what country they come from. They are like thieves in the night. They take what does not rightfully belong to them. Some say they do the jobs others do not want. However, it has been shown that they have taken jobs away because they work cheaper and employers (who contribute to the problem) save by not paying into the system. Are they hardworking? Absolutely. Do they deserve a fair day's wage for a day's work? Definitely. Should they be treated any differently than any other human being? No. However, they need to do what is right. They, simply, don't belong here or in any other country if they are here illegally. They need to pay their fair share, learn the language and be a part of society as a whole. American may be the "Great Melting Pot", but, if everyone in the pot doesn't work together for the benefit of the greater good, only disorder exists. This is a problem that will not be solved in a short period of time. It tooks years to evolve and it will take years to be corrected. Someday, someone will have the courage to step up and deal with it. Until then, there will be hatred, violence and a fractured social order.
ITA. Very well said.
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| Posted 4/10/07 2:29 PM |
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Dolcezza
LIF Adolescent
Member since 5/06 768 total posts
Name:
Nina
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by Ophelia
this is not a manifest destiny.
we cannot sit at a closed border, thumb our noses at millions of people and say "too bad your grandfather didn't have the forethought to come here sooner"
the thought is ridiculous. it is HARD AS HELL to get into this country now and sometimes peoples LIVES are at stake.
oh and GUESS WHAT...legality will not change a culture.
the same people that you call "illegals" playing volleyball with the many cars in the garage will be doing the same thing WITH THEIR GREEN CARD.
Completely agree.
I was enjoying reading this thread, and did not want to say anything..but I just feel the need.
I am quite conservative in my ways, and am all for doing things "legally", but this is just one of those subjects that I feel differently about.
The original poster asked what would be soo bad about deporting 12 million illegals. Here is my response:
At this point there are over 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States. 12 million people!!
There is no possible way to get rid of 12 million, nor could the American economy handle it. America is running around 4.5 percent unemployment. That means out of everyone in America that is capable of working (people who can work even if they chose not to) at 4.5 percent unemployment everyone who wants a job has a job.
Now most of the illegal immigrants I know work 2 to 3 jobs. How can you take 12 million people who work 2 to 3 jobs out of a country where everyone who wants a job has a job? You can not.
I understand the argument of wanting everyone to be "legal". But the truth is, it is not easy to do. And for those of you that did it "the right way"..I applaude you. But it is not that easy for everyone.
This country was built on immigration. And yes, if there are people out there breaking laws left and right and disturbing the peace, and they are not from here...do what you will with them. But for the most part...they are here looking for a better life.
Isn't this the land of opportunity?
I completely believe we should protect our borders and protect our national sovereignty. But I think we are quick to forget that little saying on that beautiful statue on Ellis Island:
Give me your tired, your poor
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
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| Posted 4/10/07 2:50 PM |
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MrsPJB2007
MBA at your service!
Member since 7/06 12020 total posts
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MJ
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by MsMBV
Posted by MrsPJB2007
i'm just curious...you said you came here legally....what country did you come from and how did you obtain your legal status? through marriage? school? the only reason i ask, is i'm curious if you came from a country that struggles like many of the south & central american countries that have so many immigrants coming into the country for a better life.
I am wondering why this is relevant? Are only people who come from south & central american countries looking for a better life?
No it's not that I'm saying others aren't looking for a better life. But let's be realistic here. the Department of State has a program that allows 27 countries the permission to travel to the United States without a visa for up to 6 months. Its no surprise that majority of these countries are Western Europrean nations such as England, Italy, France, Germany, Switzerland, etc. These people can enter the country legally on vacation...with no problems. Many times there are MANY of these visitors who overstay their allotted time, and then they become "illegal". However the difference between them and those from most Central and South American countries, is that because they came "legal", they have the option to marry a U.S. citizen or permanent resident, and file an application to Adjust Status, and obtain legal residency, and then later on, obtain citizenship.
Those from "third world" nations do not have this luxury. And you are right, it's not limited to Central and South America, but lets be realistic...no one wants to admit that is who everyone is talking about when they mention "illegals".
BTW--these are all the countries that particpate in the Visa Waiver Program, notice that most of these countries have a more citizens of a "caucausin" race:
Andorra
Iceland
Norway
Australia
Ireland
Portugal
Austria
Italy
San Marino
Belgium
Japan
Singapore
Brunei
Liechtenstein
Slovenia
Denmark
Luxembourg
Spain
Finland
Monaco
Sweden
France
the Netherlands
Switzerland
Germany
New Zealand
United Kingdom
Message edited 4/10/2007 3:00:28 PM.
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| Posted 4/10/07 2:54 PM |
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Tany
Becoming a different woman
Member since 5/05 24460 total posts
Name:
Tania
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by Sassyz75
I've said it before, and I'll say it again- I think this whole thing boils down to racism.. there is an article in today's NYTimes about a latin-american family that is here legally but was subjected to a forceful search of their home b/c the E. Hampton residents complain about them non-stop... b/c they have too many cars in their driveway, b/c they have volleyball games in their yards, etc... yet the Irish illegal migratory workers are left alone..
I think people would have a lot less to say if it were white english speaking children in their schools illegally as opposed to non-white, non-english speaking students...
exactly and to Sonia, Jessica and everyone else that really spoke with facts, my utmost respect.
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| Posted 4/10/07 3:30 PM |
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MommyofG
just the girls
Member since 5/05 9461 total posts
Name:
Janice
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Re: Can I ask an (illegal) immigration question
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
not touching this one with a 100 ft pole 
same here, dont want to be a bad judgmental egg!!!!
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| Posted 4/10/07 4:24 PM |
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