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LIRascal
drama. daily.
Member since 3/11 7287 total posts
Name:
Michelle
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Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Thank you Momma2015 for clarifying. I stand by my original post then, with the April start date and it being a new issue. I also stand corrected 
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Posted 6/20/18 10:47 PM  |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/21/politics/trump-family-separation-executive-order-chaos/index.html
(CNN)President Donald Trump's biggest reversal is sparking fresh political and legal chaos -- and new accusations of inhumanity toward undocumented migrant children split from their parents at the southern border.
Trump on Wednesday bowed to relentless pressure in the US and around the world and signed an executive order that the White House said would keep families who cross into the US illegally together.
"You're going to have a lot of happy people," Trump said as he signed the order, billing it as the most significant presidential move on immigration in half a century -- even though he was fixing a problem his own administration had caused.
But as details of his damage control emerged, it became clear that it could cause a long list of fresh complications. And the White House's credibility was undermined because it had spent days insisting Wednesday's move was not possible and blaming Democrats for the mess.
...
The most glaring deficiency of the President's executive order was that it stunningly did nothing for more than 2,300 children already separated from their parents, some of whom have been held in cage-like conditions or have been sent to facilities around the country.
CNN's Tal Kopan, citing a senior government official, reported earlier Wednesday that the order did not contain any procedures for how to reunite children now in the care of the federal government with their parents. The agency later walked back the statement but said any further plans to reunite families were still in development.
"I think the intention was to change things (but) I think there is a lot of confusion. Frankly, I think the way the order is drafted is not executable," John Sandweg, a former director of US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, told CNN's Anderson Cooper.
"I was really shocked to see they are not going to unite the kids. I thought the whole point of this was to reunite the kids," he said.
...
The executive order lays down new guidelines, requiring families to be kept together in the custody of the Department of Homeland Security.
But that position is almost certain to be challenged in court because of a 1997 consent agreement that stipulates that children can be kept in detention only for 20 days.
That decision could even lead to families being separated again.
...
"You reunite the family; a clock is ticking. If it goes beyond 20 days, you either release the entire family, which is similar to the Obama policy that the President wants to change," said Turley. "Or you once again separate the family and send the child into some type of custodial care."
So.... he wants praise for "fixing" a problem that he alone caused, and blamed Democrats for causing, and he had "no power to fix"...
And, it doesn't help the 2000+ kids that are already separated...
And, it may not prevent a lot of future separations...
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| Posted 6/21/18 7:40 AM |
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Posted by GoldenRod
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/21/politics/trump-family-separation-executive-order-chaos/index.html
(CNN)President Donald Trump's biggest reversal is sparking fresh political and legal chaos -- and new accusations of inhumanity toward undocumented migrant children split from their parents at the southern border.
Trump on Wednesday bowed to relentless pressure in the US and around the world and signed an executive order that the White House said would keep families who cross into the US illegally together.
"You're going to have a lot of happy people," Trump said as he signed the order, billing it as the most significant presidential move on immigration in half a century -- even though he was fixing a problem his own administration had caused.
But as details of his damage control emerged, it became clear that it could cause a long list of fresh complications. And the White House's credibility was undermined because it had spent days insisting Wednesday's move was not possible and blaming Democrats for the mess.
...
The most glaring deficiency of the President's executive order was that it stunningly did nothing for more than 2,300 children already separated from their parents, some of whom have been held in cage-like conditions or have been sent to facilities around the country.
CNN's Tal Kopan, citing a senior government official, reported earlier Wednesday that the order did not contain any procedures for how to reunite children now in the care of the federal government with their parents. The agency later walked back the statement but said any further plans to reunite families were still in development.
"I think the intention was to change things (but) I think there is a lot of confusion. Frankly, I think the way the order is drafted is not executable," John Sandweg, a former director of US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, told CNN's Anderson Cooper.
"I was really shocked to see they are not going to unite the kids. I thought the whole point of this was to reunite the kids," he said.
...
The executive order lays down new guidelines, requiring families to be kept together in the custody of the Department of Homeland Security.
But that position is almost certain to be challenged in court because of a 1997 consent agreement that stipulates that children can be kept in detention only for 20 days.
That decision could even lead to families being separated again.
...
"You reunite the family; a clock is ticking. If it goes beyond 20 days, you either release the entire family, which is similar to the Obama policy that the President wants to change," said Turley. "Or you once again separate the family and send the child into some type of custodial care."
So.... he wants praise for "fixing" a problem that he alone caused, and blamed Democrats for causing, and he had "no power to fix"...
And, it doesn't help the 2000+ kids that are already separated...
And, it may not prevent a lot of future separations...
I feel like this is all part of his plan. Start with outrage about separating families, then sign this order which is looking to indefinitely detain the whole family (but at least they're together, right?), so now we're going to have camps of families waiting to be processed. Is that what he wants? I'm trying to figure out what his end game is (or probably more accurately what Stephen Miller's end game is).
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| Posted 6/21/18 10:04 AM |
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Momma2015
Mommax2
Member since 12/12 6656 total posts
Name:
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Posted by LIRascal
Thank you Momma2015 for clarifying. I stand by my original post then, with the April start date and it being a new issue. I also stand corrected
 This is what they do, they spread misinformation to confuse the public!
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| Posted 6/21/18 10:09 AM |
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Momma2015
Mommax2
Member since 12/12 6656 total posts
Name:
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Posted by starbrightgirl8
Posted by GoldenRod
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/21/politics/trump-family-separation-executive-order-chaos/index.html
(CNN)President Donald Trump's biggest reversal is sparking fresh political and legal chaos -- and new accusations of inhumanity toward undocumented migrant children split from their parents at the southern border.
Trump on Wednesday bowed to relentless pressure in the US and around the world and signed an executive order that the White House said would keep families who cross into the US illegally together.
"You're going to have a lot of happy people," Trump said as he signed the order, billing it as the most significant presidential move on immigration in half a century -- even though he was fixing a problem his own administration had caused.
But as details of his damage control emerged, it became clear that it could cause a long list of fresh complications. And the White House's credibility was undermined because it had spent days insisting Wednesday's move was not possible and blaming Democrats for the mess.
...
The most glaring deficiency of the President's executive order was that it stunningly did nothing for more than 2,300 children already separated from their parents, some of whom have been held in cage-like conditions or have been sent to facilities around the country.
CNN's Tal Kopan, citing a senior government official, reported earlier Wednesday that the order did not contain any procedures for how to reunite children now in the care of the federal government with their parents. The agency later walked back the statement but said any further plans to reunite families were still in development.
"I think the intention was to change things (but) I think there is a lot of confusion. Frankly, I think the way the order is drafted is not executable," John Sandweg, a former director of US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, told CNN's Anderson Cooper.
"I was really shocked to see they are not going to unite the kids. I thought the whole point of this was to reunite the kids," he said.
...
The executive order lays down new guidelines, requiring families to be kept together in the custody of the Department of Homeland Security.
But that position is almost certain to be challenged in court because of a 1997 consent agreement that stipulates that children can be kept in detention only for 20 days.
That decision could even lead to families being separated again.
...
"You reunite the family; a clock is ticking. If it goes beyond 20 days, you either release the entire family, which is similar to the Obama policy that the President wants to change," said Turley. "Or you once again separate the family and send the child into some type of custodial care."
So.... he wants praise for "fixing" a problem that he alone caused, and blamed Democrats for causing, and he had "no power to fix"...
And, it doesn't help the 2000+ kids that are already separated...
And, it may not prevent a lot of future separations...
I feel like this is all part of his plan. Start with outrage about separating families, then sign this order which is looking to indefinitely detain the whole family (but at least they're together, right?), so now we're going to have camps of families waiting to be processed. Is that what he wants? I'm trying to figure out what his end game is (or probably more accurately what Stephen Miller's end game is).
There's still that treaty (can't think of the name, something with an "F"?) that states that children cannot be detained for more than 20 days in an unequipped facility. So something is going to need to be done... either the way it was before with short detention while awaiting a civil trial or entire families are going to be in cages. But his plan for now will not work. It's immoral AND illegal.
ETA: Just looked it up- The Flores Agreement.
From the Washington Post:
The agency’s network of immigration jails for single adults is much larger, because ICE leases detention facilities and vacant cells from states and counties across the country. But placing children in those facilities would run afoul of the 1997 “Flores Settlement” agreement that limits the government’s ability to keep children in detention and orders them to be placed in least-restrictive setting possible.
A subsequent ruling in 2016 bars the government from keeping children in family detention centers for more than 20 days.
ICE is already stretched to capacity with adult detainees. The agency has had an average daily population of 41,280 detainees during the government’s 2018 fiscal year, according to the latest figures, a number that exceeds what Congress has authorized DHS to spend.
An administration official with knowledge of the plan indicated that the Trump administration was anticipating lawsuits and preparing to litigate Flores in court, particularly if lawmakers fail to approve a legislative fix.
In most cases, that window is not enough time for those families to go before an immigration judge, so ICE has typically released families together with some form of electronic monitoring.
The Trump administration’s “zero tolerance” policy broke with that approach by separating families and sending adults to ICE jails while assigning migrant children to shelters run by the Department of Health and Human Services.
Trump’s executive order would instead keep entire families in ICE detention centers, most likely in violation of the 9th Circuit Court’s ruling on the Flores Settlement.
Link.
Message edited 6/21/2018 10:47:22 AM.
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| Posted 6/21/18 10:14 AM |
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Jenn79
One more?
Member since 2/12 2410 total posts
Name:
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
FACEBOOK Needs to be shut down! It's insane and I'm so sick of the misinformation people keep spreading! I'm fighting my emotions daily to not cut some close family from my life! But this has me in tears at this point! Pure stupidity! This is coming from someone who is on FB daily!
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| Posted 6/21/18 10:49 AM |
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Posted by Momma2015
There's still that treaty (can't think of the name, something with an "F"?) that states that children cannot be detained for more than 20 days in an unequipped facility. So something is going to need to be done... either the way it was before with short detention while awaiting a civil trial or entire families are going to be in cages. But his plan for now will not work. It's immoral AND illegal.
ETA: Just looked it up- The Flores Agreement.
It's my understanding that part of the Executive Order is that he plans to challenge the Flores Settlement in court, so he can keep children detained longer than 20 days.
If that challenge is unsuccessful, it's unclear what he plans to do at that point. Presumably, if they don't win the challenge, then they may start separating families again.
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| Posted 6/21/18 11:53 AM |
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Posted by Jenn79
FACEBOOK Needs to be shut down! It's insane and I'm so sick of the misinformation people keep spreading! I'm fighting my emotions daily to not cut some close family from my life! But this has me in tears at this point! Pure stupidity! This is coming from someone who is on FB daily!
Bc it's meme, it's true, don't you know?
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| Posted 6/21/18 12:37 PM |
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stinger
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 4971 total posts
Name:
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Posted by starbrightgirl8
Posted by Momma2015
There's still that treaty (can't think of the name, something with an "F"?) that states that children cannot be detained for more than 20 days in an unequipped facility. So something is going to need to be done... either the way it was before with short detention while awaiting a civil trial or entire families are going to be in cages. But his plan for now will not work. It's immoral AND illegal.
ETA: Just looked it up- The Flores Agreement.
It's my understanding that part of the Executive Order is that he plans to challenge the Flores Settlement in court, so he can keep children detained longer than 20 days.
If that challenge is unsuccessful, it's unclear what he plans to do at that point. Presumably, if they don't win the challenge, then they may start separating families again.
His shit changes by the minute. Check news they arent doing anything now because of lack of resources.
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| Posted 6/21/18 1:10 PM |
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Momma2015
Mommax2
Member since 12/12 6656 total posts
Name:
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Posted by stinger
Posted by starbrightgirl8
Posted by Momma2015
There's still that treaty (can't think of the name, something with an "F"?) that states that children cannot be detained for more than 20 days in an unequipped facility. So something is going to need to be done... either the way it was before with short detention while awaiting a civil trial or entire families are going to be in cages. But his plan for now will not work. It's immoral AND illegal.
ETA: Just looked it up- The Flores Agreement.
It's my understanding that part of the Executive Order is that he plans to challenge the Flores Settlement in court, so he can keep children detained longer than 20 days.
If that challenge is unsuccessful, it's unclear what he plans to do at that point. Presumably, if they don't win the challenge, then they may start separating families again.
His shit changes by the minute. Check news they arent doing anything now because of lack of resources.
Because of the democrats. They just "don't care about the kids".  
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| Posted 6/21/18 1:45 PM |
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Funkybutt
LIF Adult
Member since 4/15 3049 total posts
Name:
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Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
I also think this is a way to distract from the other awful stuff that's being passed under our noses - like taking away pre-existing conditions.
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| Posted 6/21/18 2:32 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Posted by Funkybutt
I also think this is a way to distract from the other awful stuff that's being passed under our noses - like taking away pre-existing conditions.
It seems like every horrible thing he does is to distract us from all of the other horrible things that he's doing, has done, or is about to do. When we're bombarded with an onslaught of travesties, nobody can focus on any one in particular. Once you get ammo to fight one, 10 more that are just as bad, if not worse, pop up....
It's like trying to fight cancer one cell at a time...
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| Posted 6/21/18 2:52 PM |
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Funkybutt
LIF Adult
Member since 4/15 3049 total posts
Name:
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Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Did Melania really wear a jacket that says "I really don't care. Do you?" to visit the children detention center?! WTF is wrong with those people?! WH spokesperson is trying to say that the media should focus on the fact that she was there and not on her fashion choices, but seriously, WTF is wrong with those people?!
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| Posted 6/21/18 4:04 PM |
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MrsT809
LIF Adult
Member since 9/09 12167 total posts
Name:
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Posted by Funkybutt
I also think this is a way to distract from the other awful stuff that's being passed under our noses - like taking away pre-existing conditions.
I was saying the same to DH. There was so much focus on his personal troubles lately and this was a very effective distraction.
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| Posted 6/21/18 4:22 PM |
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MrsT809
LIF Adult
Member since 9/09 12167 total posts
Name:
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Posted by Funkybutt
Did Melania really wear a jacket that says "I really don't care. Do you?" to visit the children detention center?! WTF is wrong with those people?! WH spokesperson is trying to say that the media should focus on the fact that she was there and not on her fashion choices, but seriously, WTF is wrong with those people?!
I heard that she wore it onto the plane to head down there. So bizarre and almost seems like it's just so they can point at the Democrats and say we don't give her credit for anything blah blah blah. I really hope the media doesn't spend much time on this bc as ridiculous as it is we have way bigger things to focus on.
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| Posted 6/21/18 4:24 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Posted by Funkybutt
Did Melania really wear a jacket that says "I really don't care. Do you?" to visit the children detention center?! WTF is wrong with those people?! WH spokesperson is trying to say that the media should focus on the fact that she was there and not on her fashion choices, but seriously, WTF is wrong with those people?!
She didn't go to a center where they had kids that were taken from their parents, though. She went to a place that had mostly teenagers (58 kids ages 12 to 17) that came across without parents. Totally different scenario than what all of the primary focus of the travesty is about. The facility she visited isn't that bad, so she's getting the completely wrong impression about what everyone is up in arms about.
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| Posted 6/21/18 4:33 PM |
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Funkybutt
LIF Adult
Member since 4/15 3049 total posts
Name:
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Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Ok, I stand corrected, but I still think it's insensitive to wear something like that where people would be taking her photo - whether it's just coming off a plane or visiting older kids. It's a lack of respect for what people are going thru and doesn't project a positive image.
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| Posted 6/21/18 4:37 PM |
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MissJones
I need a nap!
Member since 5/05 22136 total posts
Name:
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Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Whatever the reason to wear the jacket (send a message or she was cold), it was in bad taste.
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| Posted 6/21/18 11:31 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Posted by MissJones
Whatever the reason to wear the jacket (send a message or she was cold), it was in bad taste.
There is NEVER a reason for a First Lady (of a supposed billionaire) to EVER wear that jacket. She should have left that in NYC and wear after he's out of office.
It takes 5 seconds to look at that and realize that people will take it to mean any number of negative things, no matter when it's worn.
Then again, it's probably very accurate about their thoughts on who she was visiting, the whole First Lady gig, and the Presidency in general....
But, as typical, it *IS* distracting the media and the public from what's really going on....
Message edited 6/22/2018 7:45:03 AM.
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| Posted 6/22/18 7:44 AM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by MissJones
Whatever the reason to wear the jacket (send a message or she was cold), it was in bad taste.
There is NEVER a reason for a First Lady (of a supposed billionaire) to EVER wear that jacket. She should have left that in NYC and wear after he's out of office.
It takes 5 seconds to look at that and realize that people will take it to mean any number of negative things, no matter when it's worn.
Then again, it's probably very accurate about their thoughts on who she was visiting, the whole First Lady gig, and the Presidency in general....
But, as typical, it *IS* distracting the media and the public from what's really going on....
ITA!!! 100%.
EVERYTHING the Trump family does is intentional and meant to distract from the all of the atrocities behind the scenes. Trump is treating this country like his own personal little playground to do whatever he wants with. Sadly, we have a waste of space Congress who aren't even doing the jobs they were elected for, they are letting this man toddler run rampant.
I REALLY hope the Dems take the House and Senate in November, maybe then we can finally impeach this waste of space and get things back on track.
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| Posted 6/22/18 9:31 AM |
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LIRascal
drama. daily.
Member since 3/11 7287 total posts
Name:
Michelle
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Stay classy
Image Attachment(s):
Message edited 6/23/2018 6:02:08 PM.
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| Posted 6/23/18 6:00 PM |
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stinger
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 4971 total posts
Name:
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
My opinion about anyone in my real life that still supports this regime has hit a new low. I am not even sure how to work with them or associate with them at this point. I basically dont like them.
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| Posted 6/24/18 12:23 PM |
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LIRascal
drama. daily.
Member since 3/11 7287 total posts
Name:
Michelle
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Posted by stinger
My opinion about anyone in my real life that still supports this regime has hit a new low. I am not even sure how to work with them or associate with them at this point. I basically dont like them.
Unfortunately, it is tearing members of my family apart. i.e. my cousin in a super liberal History Professor who no longer speaks with his conservative sister and his sister-in-law who once ran for state assembly as a Republican.
It has also caused many arguments with my FIL.
They just listen to fox news as Bible, not even bothering to seek the truth.
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| Posted 6/25/18 12:00 AM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Posted by LIRascal
Posted by stinger
My opinion about anyone in my real life that still supports this regime has hit a new low. I am not even sure how to work with them or associate with them at this point. I basically dont like them.
Unfortunately, it is tearing members of my family apart. i.e. my cousin in a super liberal History Professor who no longer speaks with his conservative sister and his sister-in-law who once ran for state assembly as a Republican.
It has also caused many arguments with my FIL.
They just listen to fox news as Bible, not even bothering to seek the truth.
That sounds like my dad..................who was NEVER been a Republican in his ENTIRE life. Now ANYTHING Fox News says is gospel and it literally doesn't matter what Trump says or does, he will defend him like they are BFF's. It's scary.
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| Posted 6/25/18 9:13 AM |
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stinger
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 4971 total posts
Name:
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Re: Children separated from their families at the border: what we know
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by LIRascal
Posted by stinger
My opinion about anyone in my real life that still supports this regime has hit a new low. I am not even sure how to work with them or associate with them at this point. I basically dont like them.
Unfortunately, it is tearing members of my family apart. i.e. my cousin in a super liberal History Professor who no longer speaks with his conservative sister and his sister-in-law who once ran for state assembly as a Republican.
It has also caused many arguments with my FIL.
They just listen to fox news as Bible, not even bothering to seek the truth.
That sounds like my dad..................who was NEVER been a Republican in his ENTIRE life. Now ANYTHING Fox News says is gospel and it literally doesn't matter what Trump says or does, he will defend him like they are BFF's. It's scary.
Variation of Stockholm syndrome. I feel sorry for them.
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| Posted 6/25/18 9:28 AM |
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