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Dani
Life is about choices.
Member since 5/05 6532 total posts
Name:
Dani
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
ive been thinking about this one a lot, not knowing how i feel.
although the dad by no means wanted anything like this to happen, his judgement call, which included breaking the law, ended in killing someone. my guess would be to sentence him in the way that any wreckless endangerment case would.
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Posted 8/16/05 10:51 AM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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tourist
Member since 5/05 10425 total posts
Name:
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
Posted by DjPiLL
Besides... people are also forgetting that this dad didn't even bother to make his kid at least get the learners permit FIRST. Don't you just need to take a written test in Long Island to get a learners permit? He didn't even bother to do that.
You take the chance... you pay the price IMO.
Yes, it is just a written test, but you have to be 16, the girl was only 15. There was no reason she should have been practicing in the first place.
I don't understnad how she lost control in a parking lot, unless there was something wrong with the car or she was going very fast.
As for dual controls, we had them in driver ed, but you were allowed with a permit, to drive with a licensed driver over 18 ina regular car. You dont' have to take driver ed to get a license. A licensed driver can teach you, as my father did for my mother ( but she was in her 30s)
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| Posted 8/16/05 10:58 AM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
Posted by tourist
As for dual controls, we had them in driver ed, but you were allowed with a permit, to drive with a licensed driver over 18 ina regular car. You dont' have to take driver ed to get a license. A licensed driver can teach you, as my father did for my mother ( but she was in her 30s)
This is not allowed in NYC. Different laws... and you must be in a dual controlled car if you only have a permit.
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| Posted 8/16/05 11:08 AM |
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dpli
Daylight savings :)
Member since 5/05 13973 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
From the DMV website (nothing about dual controls):
General Rules for All Drivers with Learner Permits
No matter what age you are, if you hold a learner permit, you may not drive:
Unless you are accompanied by a supervising driver at least age 21 who has a license valid for operating the vehicle you are driving. For example, only a person with a motorcycle license may supervise a motorcycle learner.
In a DMV road test area.
On any street within a park in New York City, or any bridge or tunnel under the jurisdiction of the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority.
On the Cross County, Hutchinson River, Saw Mill River, or Taconic State parkways in Westchester County.
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| Posted 8/16/05 11:09 AM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
Posted by dpli
From the DMV website (nothing about dual controls):
General Rules for All Drivers with Learner Permits
No matter what age you are, if you hold a learner permit, you may not drive:
Unless you are accompanied by a supervising driver at least age 21 who has a license valid for operating the vehicle you are driving. For example, only a person with a motorcycle license may supervise a motorcycle learner.
In a DMV road test area.
On any street within a park in New York City, or any bridge or tunnel under the jurisdiction of the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority.
On the Cross County, Hutchinson River, Saw Mill River, or Taconic State parkways in Westchester County.
http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/broch/c41.htm
Scroll down to the bottom where it says junior permits... then read the REGIONAL RESTRICTIONS under NYC.
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| Posted 8/16/05 11:15 AM |
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MrsJ
I love my Katie Bug
Member since 5/05 11357 total posts
Name:
Kathy
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
That was a real stupid move letting his daughter drive a car when she doesnt have a permit. But does a stupid decision require jail time as punsihment? I dont know.
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| Posted 8/16/05 11:17 AM |
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dpli
Daylight savings :)
Member since 5/05 13973 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
Thanks for the info - I didn't know that and I now live in NYC. I guess the days of teaching your kid in the family car in NYC are over.
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| Posted 8/16/05 11:23 AM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
The only way you can LEGALLY drive a car in NYC if you are under 18 is if you completed drivers-ed and passed your road test after finishing drivers ed.
I got my FULL seniors licence at 17.
But if you didn't pay the cash to take drivers ed... you MUST wait till you are 18 to drive ANYWHERE in NYC. The only way you can drive a car in NYC under 18 is if you are driving a dual-controlled car.
If you are age 17, you are eligible for a senior driver license (Class D or M) if you have a junior driver license or limited junior driver license and have completed a state-approved high school or college driver education course. To convert your junior license to a senior license, bring your junior license and the Student Certificate of Completion (MV-285) that you received from your instructor to any motor vehicle office. You must surrender your certificate and junior license to receive the senior license. If you do not convert your junior license to a senior license, you are subject to the restrictions for junior drivers until you are age 18, even if you carry the completion certificate with you. You may also give your certificate with your junior permit to the license examiner at your road test. You will automatically receive a senior license when you are eligible.
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| Posted 8/16/05 11:24 AM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
Posted by dpli
Thanks for the info - I didn't know that and I now live in NYC. I guess the days of teaching your kid in the family car in NYC are over.
Its been over for a long time. Many people don't realize this. In fact in 2003 they made the law even thougher.
If you want to teach your kid how to drive... you have to first drive to Nassau county and teach there. Or take drivers ed.
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| Posted 8/16/05 11:25 AM |
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Moehick
Ready for the sun!
Member since 5/05 30339 total posts
Name:
Properly perfect™
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
This is so sad...but the dad needs to take responsobility for his poor decision
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| Posted 8/16/05 7:40 PM |
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dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
I dont think he deserves jail. It was an accident. Way back when my parents were kids, they all drove and their parents left them way before a learners permit.
I think sending him to jail wont bring the Mother back and Im sure he is feeling enough guilt to last a life time, I dont see how he is a menace to society or how he did intentionally wrong. He intentionally let her drive , thats a crime, but he did not intentionally or even carelessly attempt to put anyone in harms way. IMO anyway...
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| Posted 8/16/05 7:54 PM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
Posted by dm24angel
I dont think he deserves jail. It was an accident. Way back when my parents were kids, they all drove and their parents left them way before a learners permit.
Accident? Him allowing his daughter to drive at 15 (where I dont even think you can get a permit at 15)... but allowing her to drive without a permit in general.... he was NEGLEGENT (sp).
Just because your parents drove without a permit doesn't mean everybody should and doesn't make it right.
If she had her permit... maybe you can argue a case for him not being jailed. But there are laws like this for a reason. The father was careless and should be jailed.
Makes me glad I live in the city and don't have to deal with 15 year olds behind the wheel.  
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| Posted 8/16/05 8:05 PM |
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saraH
happy birthday sweet kate!
Member since 5/05 16555 total posts
Name:
I know that God exsists, I held her in my arms...
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
Posted by DjPiLL
Posted by dm24angel
I dont think he deserves jail. It was an accident. Way back when my parents were kids, they all drove and their parents left them way before a learners permit.
Accident? Him allowing his daughter to drive at 15 (where I dont even think you can get a permit at 15)... but allowing her to drive without a permit in general.... he was NEGLEGENT (sp).
Just because your parents drove without a permit doesn't mean everybody should and doesn't make it right.
If she had her permit... maybe you can argue a case for him not being jailed. But there are laws like this for a reason. The father was careless and should be jailed.
Makes me glad I live in the city and don't have to deal with 15 year olds behind the wheel.
how was it not an accident?? do you think he meant for this to happen? its a tragic accident and if he gets fines and/or community service that should be enough
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| Posted 8/16/05 8:10 PM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
Posted by BNL2005
how was it not an accident?? do you think he meant for this to happen? its a tragic accident and if he gets fines and/or community service that should be enough
The father getting out of the drivers seat... handing the keys over to the minor... was NO accident. Thats all I have to say about that.
Where do we draw the line then if we allow people without permits on the roads?
What if the girl was 14? Hell... it was an accident right?
What if the girl was 12? Still an accident?
Long Island roads are dangerous enough with all the drunks and adults that don't know how to drive. Don't need minors with zero driving and classrom/learning experience behind the wheel.
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| Posted 8/16/05 8:12 PM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
And since Sooooo many people get away with driving without a permit (as per stories from this thread)... I think this guy needs to be made an example.
Give him 1-3 months jail. Doesn't have to be long... but an example has to be made to other parents that think its "OK" to break the law by letting their kids get behind the wheel.
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| Posted 8/16/05 8:14 PM |
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saraH
happy birthday sweet kate!
Member since 5/05 16555 total posts
Name:
I know that God exsists, I held her in my arms...
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
Posted by DjPiLL
Posted by BNL2005
how was it not an accident?? do you think he meant for this to happen? its a tragic accident and if he gets fines and/or community service that should be enough
The father getting out of the drivers seat... handing the keys over to the minor... was NO accident. Thats all I have to say about that.
Where do we draw the line then if we allow people without permits on the roads?
What if the girl was 14? Hell... it was an accident right?
What if the girl was 12? Still an accident?
Long Island roads are dangerous enough with all the drunks and adults that don't know how to drive. Don't need minors with zero driving and classrom/learning experience behind the wheel.
ok, she was in a parking lot - thats barely a road.
and yes if she was 12 thats illegal.....but she was 15 and we can't agrue what if, what if, b/c the fact is she was 15.
and all roads are dangerous, not just on li. my god, the bike messangers would mow you down in nyc
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| Posted 8/16/05 8:15 PM |
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dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
DJ- I never said it was OK what he did, I said it was an accident and still feel it was. Its my opinion, no matter what you say, you cant change someones opinion so stop trying.
I do see your points, I just feel differently. I think in the world, every instance has to be looked at seperatly. I dont think he was doing anything a thousand parents havent done, this was a bad accident and nothing else.
Even if he was negligent....Does he deserve JAIL for it..no , not in my mind he doesnt.
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| Posted 8/16/05 8:18 PM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
Posted by BNL2005
and yes if she was 12 thats illegal.....but she was 15 and we can't agrue what if, what if, b/c the fact is she was 15.
Sure you can. What makes 12 any more illegal than 15? Thats what you are missing. He BROKE the law and one family is without a mother and a child. They are both just as illegal.
And it doesn't matter if it was a parking lot because as you can see by the story... she lost control and cleared the parking lot and ended up somewhere else.
If it was your husband and child... or if this would have happened to another LIF member (biggest oxymoron in the world)... you would have a MUCH different opinion when you find out the father let her out too young and without a permit.
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| Posted 8/16/05 8:21 PM |
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saraH
happy birthday sweet kate!
Member since 5/05 16555 total posts
Name:
I know that God exsists, I held her in my arms...
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
Posted by DjPiLL
Posted by BNL2005
and yes if she was 12 thats illegal.....but she was 15 and we can't agrue what if, what if, b/c the fact is she was 15.
Sure you can. What makes 12 any more illegal than 15? Thats what you are missing. He BROKE the law and one family is without a mother and a child. They are both just as illegal.
And it doesn't matter if it was a parking lot because as you can see by the story... she lost control and cleared the parking lot and ended up somewhere else.
If it was your husband and child... or if this would have happened to another LIF member (biggest oxymoron in the world)... you would have a MUCH different opinion when you find out the father let her out too young and without a permit.
wow, thanks for telling me what my opinion would be. i don't know how'd i'd feel about that b/c it hasn't happend to me. 12 is not 15. stop making the argument about what would happen if she was 12. she wasn't 12, end of discussion
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| Posted 8/16/05 8:25 PM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
Posted by BNL2005
wow, thanks for telling me what my opinion would be. i don't know how'd i'd feel about that b/c it hasn't happend to me. 12 is not 15. stop making the argument about what would happen if she was 12. she wasn't 12, end of discussion
It works both ways... as you are trying to tell me it was an accident when I feel it wasn't.
Like I said... somehow I feel the "masses" here would have a different opinion if it happened to a family member... or even better an LIF member. 
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| Posted 8/16/05 8:27 PM |
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saraH
happy birthday sweet kate!
Member since 5/05 16555 total posts
Name:
I know that God exsists, I held her in my arms...
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
Posted by DjPiLL
Posted by BNL2005
wow, thanks for telling me what my opinion would be. i don't know how'd i'd feel about that b/c it hasn't happend to me. 12 is not 15. stop making the argument about what would happen if she was 12. she wasn't 12, end of discussion
It works both ways... as you are trying to tell me it was an accident when I feel it wasn't.
Like I said... somehow I feel the "masses" here would have a different opinion if it happened to a family member... or even better an LIF member.
fine - the accident part is where we disagree, whatever. stop saying how differently we'd all feel if it happend to us. i don't know how i'd feel if my mother was the one who got hit and died. i don't know how'd i'd feel if my sister was the one who hit the woman who died. the question was what do we feel the punishement should be for the man it happened to.
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| Posted 8/16/05 8:29 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
i have to say i agree....
he is completely and utterly neglegent..
But i do not think it was his intent to do harm
But he was breaking the law which caused a life to be taken....
UGH....i am on the fence about this one!
Sad no matter which way you look at it.
But i have to say i do see what DJ is saying...
How peoples reactions would or could be different if it was a loved one you lost
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| Posted 8/16/05 8:31 PM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
I wouldn't have an issue with this at all if he was at least following the law. Then yeah... major tradegy.
But people that break the law should not be getting "slaps on the wrist".
And since this happens ALL TOO OFTEN on Long Island (people driving way too young)... this is exactly why an example MUST be made in this case.
Either give the guy a few months jail to set an example for better parenting... or give the kid some juvenile detention for doing something I am sure knew knew was illegal.
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| Posted 8/16/05 8:36 PM |
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june262004
But I love the Snow!
Member since 5/05 15379 total posts
Name:
Kristin
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
Posted by DjPiLL
I wouldn't have an issue with this at all if he was at least following the law. Then yeah... major tradegy.
But people that break the law should not be getting "slaps on the wrist".
And since this happens ALL TOO OFTEN on Long Island (people driving way too young)... this is exactly why an example MUST be made in this case.
Either give the guy a few months jail to set an example for better parenting... or give the kid some juvenile detention for doing something I am sure knew knew was illegal.
HOLY CRAP WE AGREE!!!  
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| Posted 8/16/05 8:38 PM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: Did you guys hear about the dad
Frankly... to spin this topic off a little bit... i don't see why Long Island should have different laws than NYC when it comes to the legality of junior driving.
Long Island should adopt NYC's more stricter rule of absolutely NO driving until you are either 18 or completed an accredited drivers-ed course.
The city does a much better job of putting "safer" young drivers on the road because of this.
It seems like Long Island accidents are always much worse than city accidents because of the amount of speed Long Islanders can do.
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| Posted 8/16/05 8:40 PM |
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