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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by nov04libride
Is obesity a disease, or an excuse for fat people to eat more Krispy Kreme? I think with every disease we can somehow fault the person for bringing it upon themselves, and I think that makes the rest of us feel in control because we can just then say I won't let that happen to me, because I have that self control.
nope..i do think that is a disorder as well
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Posted 3/12/06 10:23 AM  |
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Shanti
True love
Member since 6/05 12653 total posts
Name:
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by Redhead
Posted by nov04libride
Posted by Redhead
Deb.. can addiction be cured?
I wouldn't call it "cured," but I think alcoholics can be conditioned so that they do not turn to alcohol to satisfy their needs. Therapy must change the picture of alcohol satisfying all needs or it will not be effective. AA looks to replace that need with the picture of AA and that group belonging. AA believes the picture will never be gone, but may be moved to the back of the album. I think alcoholics need to find a replacement for the alcohol, and with AA it is the group sense of belonging in addition to a higher power that will help guide them through the recovery.
EXACTLY
and i get that...truly.
But this is whyi see it more as a disorder rather than a disease....
i understand what everyone is saying. But i still am of the mindset that it is a behavior disorder.
but this is just MY opinion
Not to put words in Jen's mouth but I think we are both saying that addiction, alcoholism, and drug abuse are problems and disorders. No one is saying it is not. But the disease classification is what gets me.
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:24 AM |
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VirginiaDeb
Don't eat me, hippo!
Member since 5/05 9252 total posts
Name:
Deb
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by Redhead
Posted by VirginiaDeb
"Alcoholism is a primary, chronic disease with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. The disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by continuous or periodic: impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, most notably denial."
Here's a link for futher explanation
interesting definition...
but when the above doesn't exist anymore...
are they cured?
I don't know if an alcoholic is ever cured persay. Which is why in another post i said that the person I know is a recovering alcoholic.
Which is what makes calling it a disease tricky. But, other diseases can also resurface. Cancer, heart disease. While they might not have any symptoms, the disease could come back. Of course, in the case of alcoholism, i guess it's always there, it might just not be manifesting itself at certain times.
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:27 AM |
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MsG
Should be working
Member since 5/05 2824 total posts
Name:
G
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
I kind of don't understand what the point is of saying "it's a choice" after the person is addicted. When someone is addicted, they need medical care if they are going to get well.
Certainly everyone is entitled to their own feelings about addicts, but to be compassionate - if you want to be - one has to move beyond the blame.
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:28 AM |
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nov04libride
big brother <3
Member since 5/05 14672 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by DMcK
Posted by Redhead
Posted by nov04libride
Posted by Redhead
Deb.. can addiction be cured?
I wouldn't call it "cured," but I think alcoholics can be conditioned so that they do not turn to alcohol to satisfy their needs. Therapy must change the picture of alcohol satisfying all needs or it will not be effective. AA looks to replace that need with the picture of AA and that group belonging. AA believes the picture will never be gone, but may be moved to the back of the album. I think alcoholics need to find a replacement for the alcohol, and with AA it is the group sense of belonging in addition to a higher power that will help guide them through the recovery.
EXACTLY
and i get that...truly.
But this is whyi see it more as a disorder rather than a disease....
i understand what everyone is saying. But i still am of the mindset that it is a behavior disorder.
but this is just MY opinion
Not to put words in Jen's mouth but I think we are both saying that addiction, alcoholism, and drug abuse are problems and disorders. No one is saying it is not. But the disease classification is what gets me.
It seems like just different choice of words. Webster has them listed as synonyms.
disorder: an abnormal physical or mental condition : AILMENT: a bodily disorder or chronic disease
I am in class now (after 16 hours of psych classes from Friday to now) and we are talking about whether pedophilia is genetic or chosen so it's funny this is on here now.
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:29 AM |
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Shanti
True love
Member since 6/05 12653 total posts
Name:
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by MsG
I kind of don't understand what the point is of saying "it's a choice" after the person is addicted. When someone is addicted, they need medical care if they are going to get well.
Certainly everyone is entitled to their own feelings about addicts, but to be compassionate - if you want to be - one has to move beyond the blame.
Not all addicts will seek or want that care and treatment, even when forced upon them.
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:31 AM |
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VirginiaDeb
Don't eat me, hippo!
Member since 5/05 9252 total posts
Name:
Deb
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by DMcK
Posted by MsG
I kind of don't understand what the point is of saying "it's a choice" after the person is addicted. When someone is addicted, they need medical care if they are going to get well.
Certainly everyone is entitled to their own feelings about addicts, but to be compassionate - if you want to be - one has to move beyond the blame.
Not all addicts will seek or want that care and treatment, even when forced upon them.
but isn't denial one of the symptoms of addiction? Addicts might not realize what their addiction is doing to those around them.
In this case, a change can't be made until the person wants that change, unfortunatly.
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:33 AM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by MsG
I kind of don't understand what the point is of saying "it's a choice" after the person is addicted. When someone is addicted, they need medical care if they are going to get well.
Certainly everyone is entitled to their own feelings about addicts, but to be compassionate - if you want to be - one has to move beyond the blame.
IMO...it was a choice byt the addict at first. It was their choice on how to handle something in their life. Which is why i keep saying it is a cognitive/behavioral disorder...
YES...addiction at a certain point goes beyond the choice, it becomes a physical need, the body does feel the ramifications of the choices that were made. But i still feel that when you look at the root of it all, it was a choice and or coping mechanism
And i am getting tired of people thinking that just because we have opinions we are NOT compassionate.
My aunt and i have had some friends who have been addicts of something...
I have GREAT GREAT compasion for them and what they have been through...
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:33 AM |
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Shanti
True love
Member since 6/05 12653 total posts
Name:
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by DMcK
Posted by MsG
I kind of don't understand what the point is of saying "it's a choice" after the person is addicted. When someone is addicted, they need medical care if they are going to get well.
Certainly everyone is entitled to their own feelings about addicts, but to be compassionate - if you want to be - one has to move beyond the blame.
Not all addicts will seek or want that care and treatment, even when forced upon them.
but isn't denial one of the symptoms of addiction? Addicts might not realize what their addiction is doing to those around them.
In this case, a change can't be made until the person wants that change, unfortunatly.
Sadly, some people are proud of their addictions and even seem prideful of the physical and emotional turmoil they cause others.
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:34 AM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by nov04libride
I am in class now (after 16 hours of psych classes from Friday to now) and we are talking about whether pedophilia is genetic or chosen so it's funny this is on here now.
that is disgusting imo
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:35 AM |
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Shanti
True love
Member since 6/05 12653 total posts
Name:
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by Redhead
Posted by MsG
I kind of don't understand what the point is of saying "it's a choice" after the person is addicted. When someone is addicted, they need medical care if they are going to get well.
Certainly everyone is entitled to their own feelings about addicts, but to be compassionate - if you want to be - one has to move beyond the blame.
IMO...it was a choice byt the addict at first. It was their choice on how to handle something in their life. Which is why i keep saying it is a cognitive/behavioral disorder...
YES...addiction at a certain point goes beyond the choice, it becomes a physical need, the body does feel the ramifications of the choices that were made. But i still feel that when you look at the root of it all, it was a choice and or coping mechanism
And i am getting tired of people thinking that just because we have opinions we are NOT compassionate.
My aunt and i have had some friends who have been addicts of something...
I have GREAT GREAT compasion for them and what they have been through...
I have to agree with you again. Just because I think someone had a choice and don't think they are diseased doesn't mean I am not compassionate to their suffering. Watching another human being struggle with ANYTHING is painful and difficult.
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:35 AM |
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dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
ahhh this is a hard one...
I dont know because it has been proven once an alchohlic or a drig addict your never cured...you always have that want that got you there in the first place and it has also been proven alcoholism is genetic...
I know Dr.'s and AA etc.. call alcoholism a disease....why they say that I dont know though...but they are the experts no?
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:35 AM |
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VirginiaDeb
Don't eat me, hippo!
Member since 5/05 9252 total posts
Name:
Deb
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by Redhead
Posted by MsG
I kind of don't understand what the point is of saying "it's a choice" after the person is addicted. When someone is addicted, they need medical care if they are going to get well.
Certainly everyone is entitled to their own feelings about addicts, but to be compassionate - if you want to be - one has to move beyond the blame.
IMO...it was a choice byt the addict at first. It was their choice on how to handle something in their life. Which is why i keep saying it is a cognitive/behavioral disorder...
YES...addiction at a certain point goes beyond the choice, it becomes a physical need, the body does feel the ramifications of the choices that were made. But i still feel that when you look at the root of it all, it was a choice and or coping mechanism
And i am getting tired of people thinking that just because we have opinions we are NOT compassionate.
My aunt and i have had some friends who have been addicts of something...
I have GREAT GREAT compasion for them and what they have been through...
I think that originally, yes, it was a choice. But that choice then manifested itself into something more.
Now, I know i drank last night out of boredom. But I know that, right now at least, I can say, I don't need another drink. And chances are, I probably won't drink again for a while. At least not more than one.
It become a disease when the craving is so bad that the person feels they no longer have the choice to say no.
Saying "just stop drinking" is a lot eaiser said than done.
In addition to the addict themselves being in denial that there is a problem, that others around them can also be in denial until it's too late. I think it's just human nature to want loved ones to not be addicted.
Hindsight is always 20/20.
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:38 AM |
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nov04libride
big brother <3
Member since 5/05 14672 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by Redhead
Posted by nov04libride
I am in class now (after 16 hours of psych classes from Friday to now) and we are talking about whether pedophilia is genetic or chosen so it's funny this is on here now.
that is disgusting imo
The stage 3 sex offenders have something like a 90% chance of committing another act, even if they have been jailed and punished. Apparently there is some genetic imbalance, but if the people with this imbalance are never exposed to pictures or acts, they will not act upon them. Once they commit one act the addiction becomes more ingrained and more difficult to deny despite counseling.
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:39 AM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by VirginiaDeb
I think that originally, yes, it was a choice. But that choice then manifested itself into something more.
Now, I know i drank last night out of boredom. But I know that, right now at least, I can say, I don't need another drink. And chances are, I probably won't drink again for a while. At least not more than one.
It become a disease when the craving is so bad that the person feels they no longer have the choice to say no.
Saying "just stop drinking" is a lot eaiser said than done.
In addition to the addict themselves being in denial that there is a problem, that others around them can also be in denial until it's too late. I think it's just human nature to want loved ones to not be addicted.
Hindsight is always 20/20.
YES....and we can all do things that can be potentially bad for us without becomming addicts
BUT the continued use before the physical need was a mental one..
Addictions usually are a means of control and escape...a horrible coping mechanism...
making it still a continued choice of how to handle things
which IMO is why therapy, groups and what not are thebest solutions in helping addicts
groups where they are giving these people better, healthy ways of dealing with their lives
making it very cognitive and behavioral
Message edited 3/12/2006 10:43:59 AM.
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:43 AM |
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Janice
Sweet Jessie Quinn
Member since 5/05 27567 total posts
Name:
Janice
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
I completely feel that it is a disease and that in some cases, it is genetic.
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:44 AM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by nov04libride
Posted by Redhead
Posted by nov04libride
I am in class now (after 16 hours of psych classes from Friday to now) and we are talking about whether pedophilia is genetic or chosen so it's funny this is on here now.
that is disgusting imo
The stage 3 sex offenders have something like a 90% chance of committing another act, even if they have been jailed and punished. Apparently there is some genetic imbalance, but if the people with this imbalance are never exposed to pictures or acts, they will not act upon them. Once they commit one act the addiction becomes more ingrained and more difficult to deny despite counseling.
Yes true, i went to sex offender training
and i i see what you are saying yet i do not see the "genetic" factor there....
UGH..i can't even think or discuss it.
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:45 AM |
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dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Nobody has addressed that DR.'S Say it's a disease yet many of you disagree with them? Are your feelings just that, feelings? So far we haven't had any Dr's on here to speak about it?
My personal feelings may disgree with what it is in reality but I wouldnt mention them because I dont have the medical nackground to stand on....
Why do you who feel its not a disease think that Dr's are wrong?
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:50 AM |
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VirginiaDeb
Don't eat me, hippo!
Member since 5/05 9252 total posts
Name:
Deb
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
i do agree that therapy is probably the best method of coping with something like Alcoholism and Drug Addiction.
The mental need led to the physical... and once the physical depency is gone, the treatment needs to start from where the problem first began: as alcohol filling another void in that person's life. That void was something emotional, or in that person's head.
I haven't taken many psych classes, so I'm by no means an expert on this, I'm just really going on opinion, experience, and what I have read.
I think that when it crosses over to the physical dependence, it becomes a disease. Unfortunatly a disease that will never fully go away, but one that can be quelled with support and therapy.
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:50 AM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by VirginiaDeb
i do agree that therapy is probably the best method of coping with something like Alcoholism and Drug Addiction.
The mental need led to the physical... and once the physical depency is gone, the treatment needs to start from where the problem first began: as alcohol filling another void in that person's life. That void was something emotional, or in that person's head.
I haven't taken many psych classes, so I'm by no means an expert on this, I'm just really going on opinion, experience, and what I have read.
I think that when it crosses over to the physical dependence, it becomes a disease. Unfortunatly a disease that will never fully go away, but one that can be quelled with support and therapy.
i see your point...
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:52 AM |
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nov04libride
big brother <3
Member since 5/05 14672 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by Redhead
Posted by nov04libride
Posted by Redhead
Posted by nov04libride
I am in class now (after 16 hours of psych classes from Friday to now) and we are talking about whether pedophilia is genetic or chosen so it's funny this is on here now.
that is disgusting imo
The stage 3 sex offenders have something like a 90% chance of committing another act, even if they have been jailed and punished. Apparently there is some genetic imbalance, but if the people with this imbalance are never exposed to pictures or acts, they will not act upon them. Once they commit one act the addiction becomes more ingrained and more difficult to deny despite counseling.
Yes true, i went to sex offender training
and i i see what you are saying yet i do not see the "genetic" factor there....
UGH..i can't even think or discuss it.
oh definitely, even if our sexual orientation is in our genes, we always have that choice of whether or not we act upon our desires. Just as I don't jump every guy I find attractive, pedophiles should be held accountable for acting upon their desires.
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:52 AM |
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Shanti
True love
Member since 6/05 12653 total posts
Name:
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by dm24angel
Nobody has addressed that DR.'S Say it's a disease yet many of you disagree with them? Are your feelings just that, feelings? So far we haven't had any Dr's on here to speak about it?
My personal feelings may disgree with what it is in reality but I wouldnt mention them because I dont have the medical nackground to stand on....
Why do you who feel its not a disease think that Dr's are wrong?
I don't have 100% faith in what doctors say. I mean, of course, science is science and I am not trying to say that I am all knowing. BUT if you look at medical advice through time and the way ideas, classification, health advice, etc, changes, it makes you wonder. Just 40 years ago, doctors were RECOMMENDING that people smoke to cure nerves!
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:54 AM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by nov04libride
oh definitely, even if our sexual orientation is in our genes, we always have that choice of whether or not we act upon our desires. Just as I don't jump every guy I find attractive, pedophiles should be held accountable for acting upon their desires.
true...
life and the people in it are strange to say the least...
and in this aspect..i just can't deal. I barely could stand the training...
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:54 AM |
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Shanti
True love
Member since 6/05 12653 total posts
Name:
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by VirginiaDeb
The mental need led to the physical... and once the physical depency is gone, the treatment needs to start from where the problem first began: as alcohol filling another void in that person's life. That void was something emotional, or in that person's head.
.
Very good point
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:57 AM |
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dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
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Re: Drug addiction/Alcoholism - Disease?
Posted by DMcK
Posted by dm24angel
Nobody has addressed that DR.'S Say it's a disease yet many of you disagree with them? Are your feelings just that, feelings? So far we haven't had any Dr's on here to speak about it?
My personal feelings may disgree with what it is in reality but I wouldnt mention them because I dont have the medical nackground to stand on....
Why do you who feel its not a disease think that Dr's are wrong?
I don't have 100% faith in what doctors say. I mean, of course, science is science and I am not trying to say that I am all knowing. BUT if you look at medical advice through time and the way ideas, classification, health advice, etc, changes, it makes you wonder. Just 40 years ago, doctors were RECOMMENDING that people smoke to cure nerves!
yeah but we arent talking about 40 years ago. This has been studied for say 40 years NOW...
And its not like one Dr happened along and said this, we are talking the meidcal community...who bottom line know a lot more then any of us ever could, so Im just fascinated I guess with people who dispute it.
I dont hold all that much faith myself in Dr's...but more on the lines of a smaller scale medical problem would I question, not an epidemic such addiction
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| Posted 3/12/06 10:58 AM |
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