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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by Ophelia
anyone who wants to is entitled to disagree and stand by his 'answers'.
is not exactly saintly. just b/c you don't agree with his answers don't make them less real or valid. that is unfair too.
to me they are not real b/c he keeps talking about abortion and it is not an abortion issue once it is a live, breathing baby. again, i understand your point that i disagree with it - but i cannot see that as a valid answer when he is talking about abortion which to me it is not.
and i don't need to nor do i want to look up anything more on it -- i already know everything about it. a lot more than even i am posting bc, again, it is just an upsetting topic. my point was not to talk about this topic on and on but more to state that obama doesn't get hit with the hard questions like mccain sometimes does... particularly, on the view.
even when my husband starts to talk about it i have to leave the room or i ask him to stop -- after a certain point.
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Posted 9/12/08 1:56 PM  |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by mrsej
The problem was that he said that he would vote for the bill if followed the federal bill's language, but he was the one that stopped his committee from adding this language. Every pro-choice organization agreed that this bill would have no effect on R v. W - it had been argued numerous times on the floor. It is hard to start educating oneself about the bill now from the internet - i remember speaking about this with judges at the time this was going on and everyone, including the liberal judges, were blown away at his vote - one said "this is going to come back and haunt him".
Yes. Exactly.
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| Posted 9/12/08 1:58 PM |
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DRMom
Two in Blue
Member since 5/05 20223 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by Kara
Posted by MrsPJB2007
I don't like his answers about Roe v. Wade and how he won't necessarily try and overturn it--but instead he wants to nominate justices to the supreme court who are STRICT constructionists to interpret the Constitution "the way our Founding Fathers envisioned us."
 just admit that you wanna overturn it ! Cause like Whoppi just said--does that mean we should put slavery back in, cause it was addressed in the Constitution by our founding fathers too.
To be clear, overturning Roe v. Wade would give all power regarding abortion back to the states, where many people (both pro-choice AND pro-life) believe it belongs. It would NOT necessarily ban or outlaw abortion throughout the country. As far as I see it, the only way to do that would be federal statute, which I strongly believe would be unconstitutional.
BUT don't you think with a federal statute many states WOULD outlaw it? (backing away quietly because I am NOT a lawyer which I think you are )
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| Posted 9/12/08 2:00 PM |
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SuchIsLife
LIF Adolescent
Member since 12/05 689 total posts
Name:
no
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DaniRella
I know enough about it for myself - I stated that I don't like to do searches or discuss it in depth because it is upsetting to me on a moral level. Thank you for being smug in the way you are writing about a topic that truly, deeply upsets me.
Not being smug at all. The site is factcheck.org. It is straight discussion about the bills. It's very dry language. There are no medical descriptions what so ever. I certainly hope that you aren't implying that I am immoral because I can do a search on this bill, read the facts about a voting record without getting upset. I don't want read over the top rhetoric, which is what you get when you visit RTL sites.
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| Posted 9/12/08 2:00 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DaniRella
Posted by Ophelia
anyone who wants to is entitled to disagree and stand by his 'answers'.
is not exactly saintly. just b/c you don't agree with his answers don't make them less real or valid. that is unfair too.
to me they are not real b/c he keeps talking about abortion and it is not an abortion issue once it is a live, breathing baby. again, i understand your point that i disagree with it - but i cannot see that as a valid answer when he is talking about abortion which to me it is not.
and i don't need to nor do i want to look up anything more on it -- i already know everything about it. a lot more than even i am posting bc, again, it is just an upsetting topic. my point was not to talk about this topic on and on but more to state that obama doesn't get hit with the hard questions like mccain sometimes does... particularly, on the view.
even when my husband starts to talk about it i have to leave the room or i ask him to stop -- after a certain point.
It is about abortion. It is the very core of the anti-abortion movement to determine a fetus' right to life. This is about defining when a pre-viable fetus is "alive" outside of the womb & what rights they have. That leaves women having abortions open to being brought up on assault, attempted murder or murder charges.
You can say it's not about abortion, but it is a veiled attempt at defining the pre-viable's "rights".
And I didn't see anyone being smug about it with you. I can also assure you this issues is extremely important to many people - both pro-choice and anti-abortion. Having an issue upset you does not give you a pass to make untrue comments about a candidate & not be called out on them.
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| Posted 9/12/08 2:05 PM |
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Blazesyth
*yawn*
Member since 5/05 8129 total posts
Name:
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DaniRella
Posted by Ophelia
anyone who wants to is entitled to disagree and stand by his 'answers'.
is not exactly saintly. just b/c you don't agree with his answers don't make them less real or valid. that is unfair too.
to me they are not real b/c he keeps talking about abortion and it is not an abortion issue once it is a live, breathing baby. again, i understand your point that i disagree with it - but i cannot see that as a valid answer when he is talking about abortion which to me it is not.
Yes. This one bill in itself is NOT about abortion.
But the ramifications of this bill could have went ahead TO influence future bills about abortion.
Therefore he voted a certain way because an end impact IS abortion and he wanted to preserve his view on that.
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| Posted 9/12/08 2:08 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
When did I make an untrue comment?
I don't want to discuss it in depth because it does bother me - I made the point I wanted to make and that was it. I'm not going to continue going into it 500 times for all the people who still want to vote for and like the guy. No matter what he does or says you are going to still want to vote for him - and that is FINE. But some things are just wrong and him voting this down was wrong, IMO, and that's it.
If it isn't in your opinion - that is fine. But it is in mine. And I am pro-choice, it is not even about that.
And again, for me, it is really about what I quoted above - I'll quote it again for you.
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| Posted 9/12/08 2:08 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DaniRella
Posted by mrsej
The problem was that he said that he would vote for the bill if followed the federal bill's language, but he was the one that stopped his committee from adding this language. Every pro-choice organization agreed that this bill would have no effect on R v. W - it had been argued numerous times on the floor. It is hard to start educating oneself about the bill now from the internet - i remember speaking about this with judges at the time this was going on and everyone, including the liberal judges, were blown away at his vote - one said "this is going to come back and haunt him".
Yes. Exactly.
I don't see it that way b/c I see his point.
the mother of the child is also an issue.
imagine you go through the gut wrenching decision to abort the child...and it lives?! now what? it's not viable. you aborted it. it's still alive???what do you do? it's going to die.
I can't blame these women for distancing themselves, and I don't fault Obama for his upholding the right to do that.
He is emphatically pro choice. end of story.
the point is...these things are so intensely personal....emotions we hope to know NOTHING about...never wanting to feel. most of us will NEVER be in the same shoe store, let alone walking in the same shoes.
and PLUS eleventy billion to what Barb said.
Message edited 9/12/2008 2:10:07 PM.
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| Posted 9/12/08 2:08 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DaniRella
Posted by mrsej
The problem was that he said that he would vote for the bill if followed the federal bill's language, but he was the one that stopped his committee from adding this language. Every pro-choice organization agreed that this bill would have no effect on R v. W - it had been argued numerous times on the floor. It is hard to start educating oneself about the bill now from the internet - i remember speaking about this with judges at the time this was going on and everyone, including the liberal judges, were blown away at his vote - one said "this is going to come back and haunt him".
Yes. Exactly.
Again.
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| Posted 9/12/08 2:08 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by DaniRella
Posted by mrsej
The problem was that he said that he would vote for the bill if followed the federal bill's language, but he was the one that stopped his committee from adding this language. Every pro-choice organization agreed that this bill would have no effect on R v. W - it had been argued numerous times on the floor. It is hard to start educating oneself about the bill now from the internet - i remember speaking about this with judges at the time this was going on and everyone, including the liberal judges, were blown away at his vote - one said "this is going to come back and haunt him".
Yes. Exactly.
I don't see it that way b/c I see his point.
the mother of the child is also an issue.
imagine you go through the gut wrenching decision to abort the child...and it lives?! now what? it's not viable. you aborted it. it's still alive???what do you do? it's going to die.
I can't blame these women for distancing themselves, and I don't fault Obama for his upholding the right to do that.
He is emphatically pro choice. end of story.
the point is...these things are so intensely personal....emotions we hope to know NOTHING about...never wanting to feel. most of us will NEVER be in the same shoe store, let alone walking in the same shoes.
Yes, you don't see it that way.
We see it differently.
That is OK. But it bothered me that he didn't have to face this question on the view but McCain had to face harsh questions - THAT WAS ALL I was trying to say. I understand not everyone feels the same way. I'm fine with that.
I also don't need to go and make a whole separate post explaining my stress and frustrations about the fact that you don't agree with me. I'm not worked up about it - I respect how you feel even if it is different and even if I don't understand it.
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| Posted 9/12/08 2:11 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DaniRella
"hence he made his own loop hole because really he believes it is OK to put a baby in a closet and let them DIE. "
About as untrue as it gets.
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| Posted 9/12/08 2:12 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DaniRella
I also don't need to go and make a whole separate post explaining my stress and frustrations about the fact that you don't agree with me. I'm not worked up about it - I respect how you feel even if it is different and even if I don't understand it.
 buttercup that isn't about you! sadly, there are more frustrating things in my life right now 
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| Posted 9/12/08 2:56 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by DaniRella
"hence he made his own loop hole because really he believes it is OK to put a baby in a closet and let them DIE. "
About as untrue as it gets.
that is my opinion!!!!!
he stated that the wording was different on the fed level but his committee handled those bills - and changed the wording. so, in fact, he created his own way out of supporting this. this leads me to believe, along with the "burden" statement, that he really believes in allowing the children not to survive -- and you know what? that's fine but just say that rather than finding fancy ways to vote it down and say you don't agree with it.
again, that is my take on it -- one of the reasons i want him questioned further is BECAUSE of that -- i want it to not be true, believe me. but until he answers it further, which he never will b/c no one will ever ask him, that is how i feel.
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| Posted 9/12/08 3:00 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Whatever you say!
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| Posted 9/12/08 3:00 PM |
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Kara
Now Zagat Rated!
Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
Name:
They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by Ophelia
I don't see it that way b/c I see his point.
the mother of the child is also an issue.
imagine you go through the gut wrenching decision to abort the child...and it lives?! now what? it's not viable. you aborted it. it's still alive???what do you do? it's going to die.
I can't blame these women for distancing themselves, and I don't fault Obama for his upholding the right to do that.
He is emphatically pro choice. end of story.
the point is...these things are so intensely personal....emotions we hope to know NOTHING about...never wanting to feel. most of us will NEVER be in the same shoe store, let alone walking in the same shoes.
and PLUS eleventy billion to what Barb said.
I know this isn't what you probably meant to imply, but I wanted to point out that Obama's stated reasoning for his voting record on these bills in committee and on the state senate floor is very different from this. (I'm not saying this isn't a valid opinion that many may hold, but it's not the opinion Obama himself has stated that I see.)
I would encourage everyone to read the *entire* article from factcheck.org and not just select snippets -- I know Jes and others have posted the link.
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| Posted 9/12/08 3:03 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DaniRella
Whatever you say!
seriously, don't flatter yourself. it's uncomely.
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| Posted 9/12/08 3:04 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by DaniRella
Whatever you say!
seriously, don't flatter yourself. it's uncomely.
i believe you - seriously.
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| Posted 9/12/08 3:04 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DaniRella
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by DaniRella
"hence he made his own loop hole because really he believes it is OK to put a baby in a closet and let them DIE. "
About as untrue as it gets.
that is my opinion!!!!!
No when you say "he believes it is ok to put a baby in a closet & let them die" that is statng a fact.
If you were saying "I believe he believes it's ok to put a baby in a closet & let them DIE", that is stating an opinion.
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| Posted 9/12/08 3:05 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by DaniRella
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by DaniRella
"hence he made his own loop hole because really he believes it is OK to put a baby in a closet and let them DIE. "
About as untrue as it gets.
that is my opinion!!!!!
No when you say "he believes it is ok to put a baby in a closet & let them die" that is statng a fact.
If you were saying "I believe he believes it's ok to put a baby in a closet & let them DIE", that is stating an opinion.
i'm sorry i wasn't absolutely perfect on a blog website.
to be honest, i was upset and i let that get the best of me - the whole topic is upsetting. so, i'll re-state that now -- I BELIEVE he feels it is OK. that is why he is skirting the issue rather than just coming out and saying it.
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| Posted 9/12/08 3:07 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by Kara
I know this isn't what you probably meant to imply, but I wanted to point out that Obama's stated reasoning for his voting record on these bills in committee and on the state senate floor is very different from this. .
I guess I am looking at it based on his comments on the senate floor, here...the "burden" comment
Obama, Senate floor, 2002: [A]dding a – an additional doctor who then has to be called in an emergency situation to come in and make these assessments is really designed simply to burden the original decision of the woman and the physician to induce labor and perform an abortion. … I think it’s important to understand that this issue ultimately is about abortion and not live births.
but I do agree, everyone should read it.
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| Posted 9/12/08 3:08 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: FYI: McCain is on the View right now.
Posted by DaniRella
i'm sorry i wasn't absolutely perfect on a blog website.
to be honest, i was upset and i let that get the best of me - the whole topic is upsetting. so, i'll re-state that now -- I BELIEVE he feels it is OK. that is why he is skirting the issue rather than just coming out and saying it.
Thank you. Now I can say that I completely respect your opinion, even if I disagree.
I also think he wasn't clear in his objections while on the floor, but clarified - at least for me - since then.
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| Posted 9/12/08 3:10 PM |
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