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chilltocam
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 9141 total posts
Name:
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Re: If the election was today?
Posted by Serendipity
What I hate right now is bc trump is so disliked and has so many awful sides of him it's distracting from how horrible of a president HRC would be and how unfit she is. His negative qualities (and I am not denying that they exist) are allowing HRC to be this glorious first woman president innocent candidate but meanwhile there are so many things she needs to be called out for! I really think this is an horrible election.
Many many people who plan on voting for Hillary do not consider her to be "innocent " of any and all wrong doing. (BUT she has never even been charged with a crime). Just because people would vote for her over a mysogentistic, racist, homophobic (and i could go on and on) bully doesn't mean those people are blind to Hilary's shortcomings. But given the choices we have and the real fear of what Trump would do to our country she is by far the much preferred choice for many
Message edited 7/27/2016 2:55:34 PM.
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Posted 7/27/16 2:53 PM  |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: If the election was today?
Posted by chilltocam
Posted by Serendipity
What I hate right now is bc trump is so disliked and has so many awful sides of him it's distracting from how horrible of a president HRC would be and how unfit she is. His negative qualities (and I am not denying that they exist) are allowing HRC to be this glorious first woman president innocent candidate but meanwhile there are so many things she needs to be called out for! I really think this is an horrible election.
Many many people who plan on voting for Hillary do not consider her to be "innocent " of any and all wrong doing. (BUT she has never even been charged with a crime). Just because people would vote for her over a mysogentistic, racist, homophobic (and i could go on and on) bully doesn't mean those people are blind to Hilary's shortcomings. But given the choices we have and the real fear of what Trump would do to our country she is by far their much preferred choice for many
 
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| Posted 7/27/16 2:54 PM |
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Blazesyth
*yawn*
Member since 5/05 8129 total posts
Name:
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Re: If the election was today?
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by AScottWolf
Neither. I'm considering voting 3rd party.
Honest question, why bother voting then? Nobody but HRC or Trump will win anyway.
Because if you want more than 2 parties in the future, you need to vote third party now.
If the third party gets 15% of the vote they they get federal election funding and must be part of all debates.
So by voting third party you may not be voting for a winner this year, but you are allowing the US to switch to three parties instead of two.
And isn't that what everyone is complaining about? They don't like 2 choices they want 3? Then people should actually do something about it and vote third party instead of complaining and staying home.
Message edited 7/27/2016 2:56:45 PM.
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| Posted 7/27/16 2:56 PM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: If the election was today?
Posted by Blazesyth
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by AScottWolf
Neither. I'm considering voting 3rd party.
Honest question, why bother voting then? Nobody but HRC or Trump will win anyway.
Because if you want more than 2 parties in the future, you need to vote third party now.
If the third party gets 15% of the vote they they get federal election funding and must be part of all debates.
So by voting third party you may not be voting for a winner this year, but you are allowing the US to switch to three parties instead of two.
And isn't that what everyone is complaining about? They don't like 2 choices they want 3? Then people should actually do something about it and vote third party instead of complaining and staying home.
They need 5% of the vote in the General Election as per the FEC to be eligible for public funding in 2020.
They need to be polling at 15% to be a part of the debates.
In the fall of 2015, the CPD announced the dates and venues and its 2016 Nonpartisan Candidate Selection Criteria. Under the criteria, in addition to being constitutionally eligible, candidates must:
Appear on a sufficient number of state ballots to have a mathematical chance of winning a majority vote in the Electoral College.
Have a level of support of at least 15 percent of the national electorate as determined by five selected national public opinion polling organizations, using the average of those organizations' most recently publicly-reported results at the time of the determination.
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| Posted 7/27/16 3:20 PM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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If the election was today?
I thought this was pretty interesting re: 3rd parties.
Let’s break down why third party voting in a presidential election is not a good strategy if you actually care about the results of the election in any meaningful way. I’m going to use abstract concepts, but I would be delighted if anyone wants to chime in with specific math.
If any third party in this country rose in support for a presidential bid, it would go through the following four stages. Currently, all the third parties are in stage one.
Stage One: Irrelevance. Right now, voting third party on your ballot has pretty much the same effect on an election as writing the candidate’s name on a piece of paper and setting it on fire. It is indistinguishable from just not voting, except you get a sticker and some warm fuzzies.
Stage Two: Spoiler. If enough people get behind a third party candidate, it has the effect of splitting the vote and handing the election to the major party furthest from the insurgent. For example, if enough Dems decided to vote Green, it splits the vote on the left and would ensure a Republican victory, or if enough Reps vote Libertarian, it splits the vote on the right and the Dems win. You go from a meaningless protest vote to completely backfiring. Congrats.
Stage Three: Election Invalidation. Let’s say a third party has enough support to rise above just shifting the balance between the two major parties, and they actually win a few states and are awarded their delegates. If they can split the states three ways, it will be unlikely any of the candidates will have enough delegates to be declared winner. The Constitution says that if this happens, we just completely scrap the election results and let Congress decide. The President is elected by the House of Representatives, and the Vice President is elected by the Senate. So, for example, let’s say the Green Party made some huge leap and took California and New York, plus a small state or two. Hillary and Trump split the other states in the expected ways. Congress, currently controlled by Republicans, could just toss everything and appoint Paul Ryan. [Edit: My mistake, they have to choose from the candidates. They would likely choose Trump, even if he was in third place. Still, the House decides, not the people.] This scenario has only happened twice in the history of the country.
Stage Four: Replacement. If one of the major parties implodes at the same time a third party rises, one party might replace the other. We would still have a two party system, just with a different two parties. This has happened a handful of times in the history of the country and is getting less and less likely to happen.
Please note that there’s no stage here where the two party system goes away. The best a third party can hope for is to become one of the two major parties.
If you’ve ever played the card game Hearts, you’re familiar with the concept of shooting the moon. In Hearts, the idea is to get stuck with the least number of point cards as possible. Or, you can try to shoot the moon by getting every single point card, effectively reversing the points onto the other players. It’s high reward, but also high risk. If you come even one card short, you **** it up and go backwards. Third party voting is like trying to shoot the moon, but you’re playing at a giant table with a hundred players and 25 decks of cards.
If you want to get rid of the two party system, repeal the 12th Amendment and restructure our election system. Good luck with that. Godspeed. But until that happens, facing reality is a good idea. I totally support changing the rules of the game, but if you play the game as if the rules were already changed, you’ll always lose.
Message edited 7/27/2016 3:23:49 PM.
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| Posted 7/27/16 3:22 PM |
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Serendipity
Summer!
Member since 4/07 7631 total posts
Name:
PrayingWishingHopingALOT
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Re: If the election was today?
Posted by evrythng4areason
Why is it so difficult to believe that as much as some people don't want a conservative majority Supreme Court, others don't want one led by liberal democrats? The Supreme Court decides on more than social issues, and not everyone agrees with a liberal standpoint on social issues. Plenty would welcome and applaud a conservative Supreme Court.
This exactly. Agree!
To add- the Supreme Court judges should not be social activists. They should rule based on the constitution.
Message edited 7/27/2016 3:35:21 PM.
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| Posted 7/27/16 3:35 PM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: If the election was today?
Posted by Serendipity
Posted by evrythng4areason
Why is it so difficult to believe that as much as some people don't want a conservative majority Supreme Court, others don't want one led by liberal democrats? The Supreme Court decides on more than social issues, and not everyone agrees with a liberal standpoint on social issues. Plenty would welcome and applaud a conservative Supreme Court.
This exactly. Agree!
To add- the Supreme Court judges should not be social activists. They should rule based on the constitution.
They rule based on their interpretation of the Constitution. That's basic US Government 101.
For example: there's a constant, ongoing argument regarding the 2nd Amendment. A more conservative person might interpret it as all people have the right to own guns. A more liberal person might interpret it as the founding fathers didn't intend for individuals to own guns for purposes other than to form a well-regulated militia.
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| Posted 7/27/16 4:03 PM |
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quasi3
LIF Adult
Member since 7/07 1764 total posts
Name:
Stacey
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Re: If the election was today?
I feel like it's the same 3 conversation / responses all the time.
HRC supporters continually try to get reasons, explanations, and persuade Trump or independent supports to change their minds. Or call them crazy because, "what about the Justices?"
Trump supporters think HRC would be a disaster to the country. Liar, criminal etc.
If you want to vote independent it's a waste of time.
My two sense- whether I choose to vote democratic, republican, or independent- it doesn't matter that you think or say because I have thought thru the issues.
Do you really agree with ALL the of positions a candidate takes? No, you decide which ones are most important to YOU. What's important to me might be different than you. And just because I'm a female does mean that I need to elect a woman.
You may want a liberal appointing justices or you may want a conservative appointing them.
I'm getting tired of feeling like I have to justify or not express my decision because it doesn't fit into your (general your) line of thinking.
For example:
Your wasting your vote when you vote independent. But isn't that my right? I do live in a democracy where I'm allowed to vote for whomever I want.
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| Posted 7/27/16 4:50 PM |
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MichLiz213
Life is Good!
Member since 7/07 7979 total posts
Name:
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Re: If the election was today?
Posted by GoldenRod
I'm still waiting for his PLANS... other than to "Make America Great Again", he has no actual plans to fix the economy, lower taxes, build the wall, stop terrorism, etc, etc, etc...
He never talks about HOW he is going to do all of these YUGE, AMAZING, TREMENDOUS things he is promising.
To me, that shows me that he is lying about absolutely every thing he is saying. His track record also proves that he lies about everything. He is shadier, involved in more scandals, and has much shadier "friends" than anything Clinton has been accused of.
Even without National level power, he has been involved in corrupt deals, under-the-table political influence, bribes, etc, etc. Just imagine what he will do if he has even more influence!
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| Posted 7/27/16 5:03 PM |
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Pinkisles
<3
Member since 11/13 2868 total posts
Name:
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If the election was today?
Writing in Rick DiPietro
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| Posted 7/27/16 5:04 PM |
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mnmsoinlove
Mommy to 2 sweet girls!
Member since 3/09 8585 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: If the election was today?
Posted by mommy2be716
Posted by ElizaRags35
I'm with her. I did prefer Bernie but I always liked her.
this
Me too! Trump is an absolute joke. She isn't perfect but at least she has a brain and experience.
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| Posted 7/27/16 5:07 PM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: If the election was today?
Posted by Pinkisles
Writing in Rick DiPietro
He'd definitely be the most interestingly dressed.
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| Posted 7/27/16 5:13 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: If the election was today?
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by Serendipity
Posted by evrythng4areason
Why is it so difficult to believe that as much as some people don't want a conservative majority Supreme Court, others don't want one led by liberal democrats? The Supreme Court decides on more than social issues, and not everyone agrees with a liberal standpoint on social issues. Plenty would welcome and applaud a conservative Supreme Court.
This exactly. Agree!
To add- the Supreme Court judges should not be social activists. They should rule based on the constitution.
They rule based on their interpretation of the Constitution. That's basic US Government 101.
For example: there's a constant, ongoing argument regarding the 2nd Amendment. A more conservative person might interpret it as all people have the right to own guns. A more liberal person might interpret it as the founding fathers didn't intend for individuals to own guns for purposes other than to form a well-regulated militia.
Agreed as usual.
Strict versus loose interpretation is taught in school.
Furthermore, being a "social activist" and "ruling based on the Constitution" are not mutually exclusive.
The 14th amendment is a perfect example.
"No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
Lots of things need to be interpreted here. What constitutes "liberty"? What about "privilege"? And "equal protection"?
The fact is, many inequities in society have been righted - at least in law - by this amendment (Roe v. Wade, marriage equality, etc.)
If anything, the Constitution is pretty lefty. But again, it depends on interpretation.
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| Posted 7/27/16 5:22 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: If the election was today?
Posted by quasi3
I feel like it's the same 3 conversation / responses all the time.
HRC supporters continually try to get reasons, explanations, and persuade Trump or independent supports to change their minds. Or call them crazy because, "what about the Justices?"
Trump supporters think HRC would be a disaster to the country. Liar, criminal etc.
If you want to vote independent it's a waste of time.
My two sense- whether I choose to vote democratic, republican, or independent- it doesn't matter that you think or say because I have thought thru the issues.
Do you really agree with ALL the of positions a candidate takes? No, you decide which ones are most important to YOU. What's important to me might be different than you. And just because I'm a female does mean that I need to elect a woman.
You may want a liberal appointing justices or you may want a conservative appointing them.
I'm getting tired of feeling like I have to justify or not express my decision because it doesn't fit into your (general your) line of thinking.
For example:
Your wasting your vote when you vote independent. But isn't that my right? I do live in a democracy where I'm allowed to vote for whomever I want.
You're right, and I've come back to that thought as well.
I actually said a few months ago that I couldn't see myself even debating politics this election cycle because I am not sure what to even say to a Trump supporter.
Accordingly, I do avoid some of these posts, but when I get sucked in it's usually because I am a Social Studies teacher and pretty passionate about what I do - I think everyone needs to understand how their government works.
I can see from here and other social media sources that many people (on both sides) do not.
So, if I can perhaps educate someone, someone who is open to it, just as I am always looking to educate myself on subjects I know little about, then that's great.
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| Posted 7/27/16 5:29 PM |
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Xelindrya
Mommy's little YouTube Star!
Member since 8/05 14470 total posts
Name:
Veronica
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Re: If the election was today?
Ok
I was going to say 3rd party
But given the info provided..
I guess I'm voting Trump. Never in a million years would I think I'd say that.
I think he's a fool but I won't vote for Hilary under ANY circumstances at ALL. I'm not voting for Trump to 'stick it to her' but a logical approach to Congress.
It's CONGRESS who makes laws.
She has ties and she's a snake. She has pressure points and lines to pull. She is a manipulator with cards to play, favors to fulfill and ask for in Congress. I don't trust her at all. CONGRESS needs to be wiped out. I think Trump would do a better job dealing with those unruly children.
So if I HAD to choose between the two. Because a 3rd party or write in for Bernie won't count (who I did vote for already) then Trump it is. Because Hilary it will NEVER be.
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| Posted 7/27/16 6:44 PM |
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sameinitials
insert creative comment here
Member since 2/12 1998 total posts
Name:
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If the election was today?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/think-really-really-hard-before-voting-for-a-3rd-party_us_57962546e4b0b3e2427cb644
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| Posted 7/27/16 6:49 PM |
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Serendipity
Summer!
Member since 4/07 7631 total posts
Name:
PrayingWishingHopingALOT
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Re: If the election was today?
Posted by Xelindrya
Ok
I was going to say 3rd party
But given the info provided..
I guess I'm voting Trump. Never in a million years would I think I'd say that.
I think he's a fool but I won't vote for Hilary under ANY circumstances at ALL. I'm not voting for Trump to 'stick it to her' but a logical approach to Congress.
It's CONGRESS who makes laws.
She has ties and she's a snake. She has pressure points and lines to pull. She is a manipulator with cards to play, favors to fulfill and ask for in Congress. I don't trust her at all. CONGRESS needs to be wiped out. I think Trump would do a better job dealing with those unruly children.
So if I HAD to choose between the two. Because a 3rd party or write in for Bernie won't count (who I did vote for already) then Trump it is. Because Hilary it will NEVER be.
That's basically my opinion as well. No way no how will I vote for Hillary. Not happening.
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| Posted 7/27/16 7:33 PM |
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bunnyluck
LIF Adult
Member since 1/14 3196 total posts
Name:
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If the election was today?
Today I wouldn't vote. Have to do more reaearch on a third party candidate.
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| Posted 7/27/16 7:52 PM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: If the election was today?
Posted by Blazesyth
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by AScottWolf
Neither. I'm considering voting 3rd party.
Honest question, why bother voting then? Nobody but HRC or Trump will win anyway.
Because if you want more than 2 parties in the future, you need to vote third party now.
If the third party gets 15% of the vote they they get federal election funding and must be part of all debates.
So by voting third party you may not be voting for a winner this year, but you are allowing the US to switch to three parties instead of two.
And isn't that what everyone is complaining about? They don't like 2 choices they want 3? Then people should actually do something about it and vote third party instead of complaining and staying home.
I see. Thank you for this. 
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| Posted 7/27/16 8:24 PM |
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mrsboss
my little love
Member since 12/09 5054 total posts
Name:
Me
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If the election was today?
Trump. And for a super lib site like this, I'm pretty surprised at the poll.
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| Posted 7/27/16 9:09 PM |
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kimchee
LIF Toddler
Member since 1/07 428 total posts
Name:
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Re: If the election was today?
Voting for Trump is like saying scr*w you to America. 
Enough said...
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| Posted 7/27/16 11:25 PM |
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Re: If the election was today?
Id love to see the educational background of the Trump voters on this thread..I bet there is a correlation- the less educated, the higher chances of leaning to Trump. I am voting for HRC all the way, as anti-Trump because I cant fathom him being CIC (Commander in Chief) and I care about SCOTUS nominees.
http://www.businessinsider.com/proof-republicans-really-are-dumber-than-democrats-2012-5
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| Posted 7/27/16 11:31 PM |
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mnmsoinlove
Mommy to 2 sweet girls!
Member since 3/09 8585 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: If the election was today?
Oh boy! I do think there is truth to higher education makes people lean more left especially on social issue but I do know people with multiple degrees, who are going to vote for Trump because they hate HRC or because they are true Republicans and always vote party lines.
Message edited 7/28/2016 12:41:21 AM.
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| Posted 7/27/16 11:47 PM |
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Chai77
Brighter days ahead
Member since 4/07 7364 total posts
Name:
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Re: If the election was today?
The one factor I read which is correlated with being a trump supporter is having an authoritarian personality.
I'm shocked to read people who have supported Bernie will vote Trump. That makes zero sense to me. I was a huge Bernie supporter. I am a progressive. I will never vote for Trump or HRC. I'll be voting for a third party candidate. I'm doing it to protest, to hopefully one day open us up to a multiparty system, and because I truly truly can not stomach either Donnie or Shillary. I just can not do it.
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| Posted 7/27/16 11:50 PM |
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gina409
TWINS!
Member since 12/09 27635 total posts
Name:
g
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Re: If the election was today?
Well this is about to go down faster than a hooker on a busy Saturday night 
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| Posted 7/28/16 12:00 AM |
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