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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
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Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
I am really surprised that there are no topics about this bailout.
what are your thoughts about this?
say goodbye to any promised tax cuts by either candidate. for a verrrrrrrry long time! we're (the US) about to get into debt like never before. tax increases all around.
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Posted 9/24/08 7:55 PM  |
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HeathKernandez
Our Ron is an awesome Ron
Member since 4/07 9091 total posts
Name:
baby fish mouth
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
i'm skurrred.
as if DH & I were struggling already 
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| Posted 9/24/08 8:00 PM |
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GioiaMia
Let's Go Rangers!
Member since 1/07 14818 total posts
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
Posted by namechange
i'm skurrred.
as if DH & I were struggling already
ditto, we were JUST starting to look at houses. . . we are going to see one tomorrow - its basically like a joke though
I am watching Suze Orman on Oprah right now and she is saying how no one is going to be able to get a mortgage right now, awesome.
And to make things worse. . . my dad works for Alitalia which may go under - so I will not have to worry about US I will have to worry about my parents too
Okay sorry for turning the thread into a vent.
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| Posted 9/24/08 8:07 PM |
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
sorry dbl post
Message edited 9/24/2008 8:20:01 PM.
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| Posted 9/24/08 8:18 PM |
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
Posted by Tilde
Posted by namechange
i'm skurrred.
as if DH & I were struggling already
ditto, we were JUST starting to look at houses. . . we are going to see one tomorrow - its basically like a joke though
I am watching Suze Orman on Oprah right now and she is saying how no one is going to be able to get a mortgage right now, awesome.
And to make things worse. . . my dad works for Alitalia which may go under - so I will not have to worry about US I will have to worry about my parents too
Okay sorry for turning the thread into a vent.
 I hope your dad is able to hang onto his job.
The bailout makes me angry. We are all paying for the greed of a relative few. I get that it needs to be done because the alternative is worse, but I think about those CEOs walking away with millions, not having to answer for what went on at their companies, and I want to puke.
I teach in NYC. Our buget's been slashed, it's going to be slashed more. I dig into my pocket for work things already; I don't know how I'll be able to continue. DH and I are lucky to be secure in our jobs, but with gas, heating oil, food....
My students aren't old enough to work, but they're paying for it too.
Message edited 9/24/2008 8:19:38 PM.
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| Posted 9/24/08 8:19 PM |
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GioiaMia
Let's Go Rangers!
Member since 1/07 14818 total posts
Name:
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
Posted by MrsProfessor
Posted by Tilde
Posted by namechange
i'm skurrred.
as if DH & I were struggling already
ditto, we were JUST starting to look at houses. . . we are going to see one tomorrow - its basically like a joke though
I am watching Suze Orman on Oprah right now and she is saying how no one is going to be able to get a mortgage right now, awesome.
And to make things worse. . . my dad works for Alitalia which may go under - so I will not have to worry about US I will have to worry about my parents too
Okay sorry for turning the thread into a vent.
I hope your dad is able to hang onto his job.
Thanks!
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| Posted 9/24/08 8:20 PM |
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DirtyBlonde
*****
Member since 11/07 7344 total posts
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
i wasn't anticipating tax cuts, no matter who made it into office. the country was already enough in debt
now...i'm too ****** off to be scared.
i feel like the bail out HAS to be approved. so angry.
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| Posted 9/24/08 8:22 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
this clarifies why they need this money:
"The Treasury's plan, the most sweeping federal intervention in the financial markets since the Great Depression, calls for the government to buy from firms up to $700 billion in troubled assets - mainly mortgage-backed securities - whose values have declined as the housing market imploded. The goal is to stabilize the companies and prompt them to lend again."
unbelievable! I have no words... no accountability, disgusting fraud. and WE have to pay for it!  
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| Posted 9/24/08 8:25 PM |
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
unbelievable! I have no words... no accountability, disgusting fraud. and WE have to pay for it!
Me either.
The FBI is going to investigate the possibility of fraud. But I don't see it getting anywhere, they will all lawyer up.
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| Posted 9/24/08 8:47 PM |
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sunnyplus3
:)
Member since 11/05 8749 total posts
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
it has to be done, its the lesser of two evils.
The feds need to ask Michael Bloomberg, Bill Gates & Warren Buffet to head a commitee on how "our" new investment should be managed(nobody ever asked me if I wanted to buy high risk, bad mortgage debt) so the fed can't screw it up.
Paulson seems to have a clue about how all of this works. I'm DEEPLY frightened to see what clowns will sit in Paulson & Bernake's seats next february.
As for the liars & the theives....they should get NOTHING but a get out of jail free card. I smell a few high profile coming suicides in the next several months.
Message edited 9/24/2008 8:50:42 PM.
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| Posted 9/24/08 8:49 PM |
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justbeachy
So close....
Member since 7/07 2900 total posts
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
Honestly, I don't know.
I'm conflicted.
I think that the government HAD to back AIG to maintain any semblance of consumer/investor confidence on Wall Street. Do I think it's wise to continue bailing everyone out...? Probably not.
As a family beginning to look for a home, I'm really nervous about the future. I think this would only make it worse... But I'm not a financial kind of person and I really don't know what the right answer is.
My husband thinks it's necessary - but he works for Lehman (probably now Barclays - we have no idea right now...), so he's biased.
Message edited 9/24/2008 9:14:42 PM.
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| Posted 9/24/08 9:11 PM |
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sunnyplus3
:)
Member since 11/05 8749 total posts
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
Posted by SupaBonBon
Honestly, I don't know.
I'm conflicted.
But i do want to say something semi-related. My husband works for Lehman (or probably now Barclays...we still have no idea what's going on). Honestly, I cringe when people say that these banks are filled with greed/run on greed. And let me also preface it by saying that I recognize that most people are making those comments in reference to the people at the banks in senior positions. I recognize that. But still...I know many hard working people who work for these banks and are by no means greedy. I also know many shareholders who are also not greedy. And my husband? Well, he has no idea what the future holds for him and works SO hard everyday. He is highly educated and had spent a lot of money on his education to get where he is. Sorry for the tangent, but I think that sometimes the negative blanket statements about these institutions in inaccurate and one-sided. So many families (mine included) are making their LIVING by working, investing, and supporting these institutions. Thousands of people are losing their jobs because of the crisis. I just hope sometimes we take that into consideration when we make such damning comments about these companies.
I get your point & I have sympathy for your husband & all of the "little people" in those companies. However, I have NO MERCY for the people RUNNING those companies that screwed your husband, his co-workers & the rest of us by either LYING or being too stupid to know there was a problem.
Either way I think any hope of their cushy multi-million dollar pensions/bonus/severance/whatever the hell we want to call it should BE HISTORY, gone, no chance of them getting a red cent.
I can search back on this very board & show you topics I posted over a year ago saying that a fiasco similar to this was building with bad loans, I don't even have a college degree, I don't even know the multiplication table past 12 but all of the people that spent so much on their education that had a hand in making transactions that would affect the worldwide economy couldn't see it coming????????????????
I'm sorry but that's not exceptable to me.
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| Posted 9/24/08 9:21 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
Posted by MrsProfessor
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
unbelievable! I have no words... no accountability, disgusting fraud. and WE have to pay for it!
Me either.
The FBI is going to investigate the possibility of fraud. But I don't see it getting anywhere, they will all lawyer up.
sure - and they'll pay for the lawyers with OUR tax money! UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| Posted 9/24/08 9:21 PM |
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justbeachy
So close....
Member since 7/07 2900 total posts
Name:
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
Posted by KellyFG
but all of the people that spent so much on their education that had a hand in making transactions that would affect the worldwide economy couldn't see it coming????????????????
I'm sorry but that's not exceptable to me.
I really hope that comment wasn't directed at my family. Because it was really snarky and uncalled for. And if I am reading it wrong, I apologize. It just came across that way.
But it really isn't as simple as you're making it out to be. In many ways, it was a confidence game gone wrong.
Your company can be as financially stable as possible. But if the watercooler gossip in your comany's circle is that your company isn't doing well (which is completely contradictory to the reality), then people who were once confident in your company will begin to pull away and pull their money out of your company. This is what happened to Lehman. If Wall Street lacks confidence, stocks plumet and companies fold.
And I realize I too am oversimplifying the situation...but I just needed to add two more cents.
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| Posted 9/24/08 9:33 PM |
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sunnyplus3
:)
Member since 11/05 8749 total posts
Name:
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
superbonbon-I'm not being snarky & I know Lehman hits home for you but the feds have bailed out Fannie & Freddie & AIG too....things there are MUCH more complicated than what goes on around the water cooler & the truth will be told that there were LIES & FRAUD.
I admitted to not having a college degree, but I'm well aware of what caused the crisis.
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| Posted 9/24/08 9:39 PM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
Posted by DirtyBlonde
i feel like the bail out HAS to be approved. so angry.
I feel this way too, very scary times
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| Posted 9/24/08 9:41 PM |
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justbeachy
So close....
Member since 7/07 2900 total posts
Name:
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
Posted by KellyFG
superbonbon-I'm not being snarky & I know Lehman hits home for you but the feds have bailed out Fannie & Freddie & AIG too....things there are MUCH more complicated than what goes on around the water cooler & the truth will be told that there were LIES & FRAUD.
I admitted to not having a college degree, but I'm well aware of what caused the crisis.
Ehh - time will tell. We'll see what comes out. I know it wasn't JUST watercooler gossip - I'd be a fool to think that way...but I'm not ready to come out and say that these CEO's committed fraud either.
Listen, I'm not trying to defend these companies...I'm just concerned (like you, and everyone else, I'm sure!) about our futures!!
DH and I are planning on buying in the next year. I'm petrified we won't be approved....
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| Posted 9/24/08 10:04 PM |
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OStewarts
LIF Adult
Member since 11/07 1096 total posts
Name:
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
Posted by KellyFG
superbonbon-I'm not being snarky & I know Lehman hits home for you but the feds have bailed out Fannie & Freddie & AIG too....things there are MUCH more complicated than what goes on around the water cooler & the truth will be told that there were LIES & FRAUD.
I admitted to not having a college degree, but I'm well aware of what caused the crisis.
Wait a second. I am not going to jump in here and claim that I know everything about this situation but I have been trying to follow this story as best that I can and I do not think there is any indication that anyone at Lehman lied or engaged in fraud. Rather, from what I can tell, it appears that the front line mortgage lenders and brokers (NOT Lehman, Frannie, Freddie or Goldman and Morgan Stanley) are the individuals who appear to have engaged in predatory loan practices and then concealed the bad loans by packaging them into huge instruments and THEN selling them on Wall Street. Lehman (and the others) purchased those mortgage instruments that turned out to be "toxic." Now, it may turn out that they also engaged in some kind of improper conduct or that they should have known better, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Oh, and for the record, some of the smartest people I know don't have college degrees, like my Dad.
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| Posted 9/24/08 10:10 PM |
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MrsRivera
2 under 2...whew!!
Member since 2/07 9876 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
I agree with what Bill Clinton said. No one should be "loaning" money without making some sort of interest back on it.
That said, I feel like enough hasn't been said about the bailout for me to make an informed decision about it. I think there's a LOT that's being kept from us.
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| Posted 9/24/08 10:14 PM |
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stickydust
Now a mommy of 2!!!
Member since 4/06 3164 total posts
Name:
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
I think the bailout will be a bitter pill that we have to swallow, otherwise we will be heading into a recession on the magnitude of The Great Depression.
What we all have to realize about the current credit crisis and the events the precipitated it is that it was not just the bankers that were greedy. Everyone was. Think about the crazy housing market years ago. Additionally, we have to remember that were in not for the secondary mortgage market most of us on this board would not be able to be homeowners. It was the creation of MBS (mortgage-backed securities) that made it possible for the average homeowner to purchase a home.
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| Posted 9/24/08 10:16 PM |
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stickydust
Now a mommy of 2!!!
Member since 4/06 3164 total posts
Name:
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
Posted by OStewarts
Posted by KellyFG
superbonbon-I'm not being snarky & I know Lehman hits home for you but the feds have bailed out Fannie & Freddie & AIG too....things there are MUCH more complicated than what goes on around the water cooler & the truth will be told that there were LIES & FRAUD.
I admitted to not having a college degree, but I'm well aware of what caused the crisis.
Wait a second. I am not going to jump in here and claim that I know everything about this situation but I have been trying to follow this story as best that I can and I do not think there is any indication that anyone at Lehman lied or engaged in fraud. Rather, from what I can tell, it appears that the front line mortgage lenders and brokers (NOT Lehman, Frannie, Freddie or Goldman and Morgan Stanley) are the individuals who appear to have engaged in predatory loan practices and then concealed the bad loans by packaging them into huge instruments and THEN selling them on Wall Street. Lehman (and the others) purchased those mortgage instruments that turned out to be "toxic." Now, it may turn out that they also engaged in some kind of improper conduct or that they should have known better, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Oh, and for the record, some of the smartest people I know don't have college degrees, like my Dad.
I completely agree with this and believe me when I say I was HIGHLY involved with the entire industry. And that is all I can probably say without violating confidentiality.
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| Posted 9/24/08 10:18 PM |
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OStewarts
LIF Adult
Member since 11/07 1096 total posts
Name:
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
I am concerned about adding to our national debt and borrowing MORE money from other countries.
Last time I checked the national debt was around 9.5 trillion It doubled during the Bush administration (from about 5 trillion when Clinton left office) and we're going to add nearly another trillion now!
Ugh!
Message edited 9/24/2008 10:23:50 PM.
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| Posted 9/24/08 10:19 PM |
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DRMom
Two in Blue
Member since 5/05 20223 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
Posted by SupaBonBon
Posted by KellyFG
but all of the people that spent so much on their education that had a hand in making transactions that would affect the worldwide economy couldn't see it coming????????????????
I'm sorry but that's not exceptable to me.
I really hope that comment wasn't directed at my family. Because it was really snarky and uncalled for. And if I am reading it wrong, I apologize. It just came across that way.
But it really isn't as simple as you're making it out to be. In many ways, it was a confidence game gone wrong.
Your company can be as financially stable as possible. But if the watercooler gossip in your comany's circle is that your company isn't doing well (which is completely contradictory to the reality), then people who were once confident in your company will begin to pull away and pull their money out of your company. This is what happened to Lehman. If Wall Street lacks confidence, stocks plumet and companies fold.
And I realize I too am oversimplifying the situation...but I just needed to add two more cents.
VERY VEREY True-what few people understand is that SPECULATION runs our economy. Oil, stocks, all of it controlled by the big boys on Wall Street.
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| Posted 9/25/08 1:00 AM |
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DRMom
Two in Blue
Member since 5/05 20223 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
Posted by stickydust
I think the bailout will be a bitter pill that we have to swallow, otherwise we will be heading into a recession on the magnitude of The Great Depression.
What we all have to realize about the current credit crisis and the events the precipitated it is that it was not just the bankers that were greedy. Everyone was. Think about the crazy housing market years ago. Additionally, we have to remember that were in not for the secondary mortgage market most of us on this board would not be able to be homeowners. It was the creation of MBS (mortgage-backed securities) that made it possible for the average homeowner to purchase a home.
I agree-another thing is all these lenders shot themselves in the foot by not doing workout plans with people headed for foreclosure. For example-taking past due balances, putting them on the end of the loan and letting them start payments again.
Instead they would not work out anything(until forced by the gov't) and are now so backed up they can't even talk to homeowners-I know people in this situation. Basically if they let people do this the loans would not have been considered "junk" and would have been saleable on the secondary market. Now they've got empty, boarded up houses they can't sell and mortgage backed securities are in the sh!tter.
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| Posted 9/25/08 1:06 AM |
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
Posted by KellyFG
superbonbon-I'm not being snarky & I know Lehman hits home for you but the feds have bailed out Fannie & Freddie & AIG too....things there are MUCH more complicated than what goes on around the water cooler & the truth will be told that there were LIES & FRAUD.
I admitted to not having a college degree, but I'm well aware of what caused the crisis.
A little off topic, but Kelly, your posts always impress me. i think you are extremely smart. I can honestly say you blow me out of the water with your knowledge on most things, and I have a masters degree (2.5, actually! )
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| Posted 9/25/08 6:49 AM |
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sunnyplus3
:)
Member since 11/05 8749 total posts
Name:
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Re: Instead of arguing about which candidate is right or wrong about suspending/not suspending his campaign
people that worked for Enron didn't think anyone was lying until it was all over either.
My husbands business is driven by credit, money & successful people that earn huge bonuses. Believe me I'm not thrilled about this at all.
Thanks Lipgloss 
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| Posted 9/25/08 7:15 AM |
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