| Posted By |
Message |
| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 |
Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
Posted by Leeners
I believe it's suspicious, this particular prayer, because it has been used a number of times to signal the start of attacks. I don't see how it's not to be considered suspicious when repeated in a crowded, secular venue after that happens even one time.
The security at the Meadowlands is far from perfect, as is the security everywhere, as evidenced by Sept 11th. Those hijackers got through metal detectors, etc with their knives and box cutters and managed to kill almost 3K people. I don't think we can rely on a single security system to get us through.
We want our government and civil service officers to save us but we also want to tout all of our civil liberties that impede them from doing an effective job. Unfortunately at this time, we can't have our cake and eat it too and IMO safety of the masses has to be the #1 priority.
1. so should we go on lock down every sunday when muslims pray in the fear that attacks may occur?
2. security has drastically changed in huge places post 9/11. And i do not think what happened pre 9/11 (ie getting passed metal detectors) can happen as easily now.
3. and YES i want my govt to be more on the ball, tightening up security but not at the sake of taking away religious or basic freedoms..the thing we are FIGHTING FOR.
I really do not want my country turing into this. Because we are not what we claim to be....
|
Posted 11/2/05 1:19 PM  |
| |
|
Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource |
Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
And to be honest here.........religious praying is the LEAST of our worries........
Our country keeps us sooo vulnerable with the illegal alien problems ..and THAT imo is more important right now
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:20 PM |
| |
|
Leeners
:)
Member since 5/05 4898 total posts
Name:
Eileen
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
Posted by Redhead
1. so should we go on lock down every sunday when muslims pray in the fear that attacks may occur?
2. security has drastically changed in huge places post 9/11. And i do not think what happened pre 9/11 (ie getting passed metal detectors) can happen as easily now.
3. and YES i want my govt to be more on the ball, tightening up security but not at the sake of taking away religious or basic freedoms..the thing we are FIGHTING FOR.
I really do not want my country turing into this. Because we are not what we claim to be....
 No one said anything about lock down. These men were questioned for 30 minutes and released. Truthfully, I don't think that's so bad! And I am surprised that they were surprised they were looked at suspiciously knowing the climate we live in here in NY/NJ.
As far as airport security, I have gone through 4 times with tweezers and 1 time with a box cutter (both of which I had forgotten were in my carry on). And, two years ago, my luggage managed to make it on a plane with out me. That should never have happened, but it does. I don't agree that hijackers cannot get through now with the changes in security. Nothing is perfect and the more we have in place, the more we're cutting down on the risk.
Red, I completely agree with you, in theory. I think it s*cks that we're at a place where this has been deamed necessary. But I also see law enforcement's side of this. They cannot know which "suspicious" behavior is good and which is bad without investigating it further. And if it takes 30 minutes out of someone's life, well, then, that's what it takes.
JMO.
Message edited 11/2/2005 1:27:58 PM.
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:25 PM |
| |
|
Shorty
.
Member since 5/05 30390 total posts
Name:
really
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
Just wanted to add that places are not nearly as secure as we think they are!
Over the summer, I went to yankee stadium with a group of friends. We're all Mets fans, and had no idea where we were going.
We wandered into the store attached to the stadium (no metal detectors), and from the store, we were able to walk DIRECTLY through the stadium, to our seats!!!
No one took our tickets, no one checked our bags, no metal detectors, etc. And there were 6 OF US. Hard to miss.
Not only was I freaked out by this (couldn't ANYONE do the exact same thing), but I was pisssssed. What do the employees get paid to do?!
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:25 PM |
| |
|
baghag
:P
Member since 5/05 10278 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
Posted by CaptainCharisma424
Posted by baghag
Posted by CaptainCharisma424
first of all, i respect everyone's opinions and I thank you all for having a civil discussion, for a change.
I almost feel like we're in a "damned if you do, and damned if you don't" scenario."
Let's say security did nothing and Giants stadium blew up. And later on we found out about the praying before the explosion. People would be furious that something COULD have been done.
But, you do something and get accussed of profiling.
What's the answer then?
You are assuming it would have been the Muslims that would have blown it up.
i'm not assuming anything, but let's say yes, the muslims blew it up and we found out that there were visible signs of this before it happened
if you had a family member in the building, what would youthink?
I didn't mean for my post to come across as combative or accusing. I did read into your post as assuming it was the Muslims, it looked like you meant it was them? It seems like you thought it couldn't be any other group.
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:27 PM |
| |
|
QuoteTheRaven424
22 Months?!!!!
Member since 5/05 13659 total posts
Name:
And If That Isn't A True Blue Miracle
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
Posted by baghag
Posted by CaptainCharisma424
Posted by baghag
Posted by CaptainCharisma424
first of all, i respect everyone's opinions and I thank you all for having a civil discussion, for a change.
I almost feel like we're in a "damned if you do, and damned if you don't" scenario."
Let's say security did nothing and Giants stadium blew up. And later on we found out about the praying before the explosion. People would be furious that something COULD have been done.
But, you do something and get accussed of profiling.
What's the answer then?
You are assuming it would have been the Muslims that would have blown it up.
i'm not assuming anything, but let's say yes, the muslims blew it up and we found out that there were visible signs of this before it happened
if you had a family member in the building, what would youthink?
I didn't mean for my post to come across as combative or accusing. I did read into your post as assuming it was the Muslims, it looked like you meant it was them? It seems like you thought it couldn't be any other group.
yes it could be anyone but i am talking about this specific instance, if we found out that the 2 were related
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:29 PM |
| |
|
Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
But don what if the visible signs were scratching their azzz....
sorry needed to chuckle a little
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:30 PM |
| |
|
MrsERod
Praying for Everyone.
Member since 5/05 26170 total posts
Name:
MrsERod™®
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
Posted by Redhead
But don what if the visible signs were scratching their azzz....
sorry needed to chuckle a little
then that would be a CLEAR indication that they needed a bath!  
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:31 PM |
| |
|
Shorty
.
Member since 5/05 30390 total posts
Name:
really
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
...and some hand sanitizer.
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:32 PM |
| |
|
Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:32 PM |
| |
|
baghag
:P
Member since 5/05 10278 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
Posted by MrsERod
Posted by CaptainCharisma424
Before the game began, these fans began to prostrate and pray to Allah (per their daily ritual). Fans around them became concerned and alerted security.
let's say, for argument's sake, that security did NOTHING. what then would the rest of the fans have done? what kind of response would have been appropriate, given that the majority of the concerned fans outweighed the number of fans that were praying??
i think security had an obligation to investigate and question them. goes back to 'better safe then sorry'.
This is the argument, to me, that comes the closest to the justifying the prayers beign questioned.
If they hadn't been questioned, it would have been putting them in a very dangerous situation. The rest of the fans may have decided to take matters into their own hands, and there would have been a beating, a riot, or something. If they were publicly declared to be "ok" by security, they are a lot less likely to be harassed. I just find it very sad that to ensure their safety, they had to be interogated.
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:35 PM |
| |
|
QuoteTheRaven424
22 Months?!!!!
Member since 5/05 13659 total posts
Name:
And If That Isn't A True Blue Miracle
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
red, this was giant stadium, not shea stadium
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:35 PM |
| |
|
Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
Posted by baghag
Posted by MrsERod
Posted by CaptainCharisma424
Before the game began, these fans began to prostrate and pray to Allah (per their daily ritual). Fans around them became concerned and alerted security.
let's say, for argument's sake, that security did NOTHING. what then would the rest of the fans have done? what kind of response would have been appropriate, given that the majority of the concerned fans outweighed the number of fans that were praying??
i think security had an obligation to investigate and question them. goes back to 'better safe then sorry'.
This is the argument, to me, that comes the closest to the justifying the prayers beign questioned.
If they hadn't been questioned, it would have been putting them in a very dangerous situation. The rest of the fans may have decided to take matters into their own hands, and there would have been a beating, a riot, or something. If they were publicly declared to be "ok" by security, they are a lot less likely to be harassed. I just find it very sad that to ensure their safety, they had to be interogated.
good points!
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:37 PM |
| |
|
Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
Posted by CaptainCharisma424
red, this was giant stadium, not shea stadium
LORD KNOWS there is a lot of PRAYING going on at Shea
BAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA''sorry coudlnt' help myself
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:38 PM |
| |
|
QuoteTheRaven424
22 Months?!!!!
Member since 5/05 13659 total posts
Name:
And If That Isn't A True Blue Miracle
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
Posted by Redhead
Posted by CaptainCharisma424
red, this was giant stadium, not shea stadium
LORD KNOWS there is a lot of PRAYING going on at Shea
BAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA''sorry coudlnt' help myself
see now, i was gonna say yankee stadium, but i decided to be nice 
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:38 PM |
| |
|
Shorty
.
Member since 5/05 30390 total posts
Name:
really
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
Posted by Shorty
Just wanted to add that places are not nearly as secure as we think they are!
Over the summer, I went to yankee stadium with a group of friends. We're all Mets fans, and had no idea where we were going.
We wandered into the store attached to the stadium (no metal detectors), and from the store, we were able to walk DIRECTLY through the stadium, to our seats!!!
No one took our tickets, no one checked our bags, no metal detectors, etc. And there were 6 OF US. Hard to miss.
Not only was I freaked out by this (couldn't ANYONE do the exact same thing), but I was pisssssed. What do the employees get paid to do?!
yes, now I'm quoting myself.
Rich told me I should've written a letter describing our experience...I never did, though. Where would you even send it to?
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:39 PM |
| |
|
LFitzy79
can hardly wait
Member since 5/05 2650 total posts
Name:
Lauren
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
...in my honest opinion-security did the right thing...
It's the price we pay for living in a country where we practice pluralism-we all have to have concessions. To live in America, you might be questioned by security every now and again because there are some people out there that hate pluralism, and are willing to kill to show that thier way is the right way, and the terrorists look just like the rest of us, so we have to check and double check and triple check-and yeah it's inconvenient, and if you don't like it, move to a country where they don't care about your safety, or your guaranteed right to pluralism.
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:41 PM |
| |
|
Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
Posted by Shorty
Posted by Shorty
Just wanted to add that places are not nearly as secure as we think they are!
Over the summer, I went to yankee stadium with a group of friends. We're all Mets fans, and had no idea where we were going.
We wandered into the store attached to the stadium (no metal detectors), and from the store, we were able to walk DIRECTLY through the stadium, to our seats!!!
No one took our tickets, no one checked our bags, no metal detectors, etc. And there were 6 OF US. Hard to miss.
Not only was I freaked out by this (couldn't ANYONE do the exact same thing), but I was pisssssed. What do the employees get paid to do?!
yes, now I'm quoting myself.
Rich told me I should've written a letter describing our experience...I never did, though. Where would you even send it to?
I guess Yankee stadium and YES i think you should
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:41 PM |
| |
|
Shorty
.
Member since 5/05 30390 total posts
Name:
really
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
just...
Mr. Yankee Stadium
Bronx, NY?
I guess I should look for a security dept. address.
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:43 PM |
| |
|
MrsERod
Praying for Everyone.
Member since 5/05 26170 total posts
Name:
MrsERod™®
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
Posted by baghag
Posted by MrsERod
Posted by CaptainCharisma424
Before the game began, these fans began to prostrate and pray to Allah (per their daily ritual). Fans around them became concerned and alerted security.
let's say, for argument's sake, that security did NOTHING. what then would the rest of the fans have done? what kind of response would have been appropriate, given that the majority of the concerned fans outweighed the number of fans that were praying??
i think security had an obligation to investigate and question them. goes back to 'better safe then sorry'.
This is the argument, to me, that comes the closest to the justifying the prayers beign questioned.
If they hadn't been questioned, it would have been putting them in a very dangerous situation. The rest of the fans may have decided to take matters into their own hands, and there would have been a beating, a riot, or something. If they were publicly declared to be "ok" by security, they are a lot less likely to be harassed. I just find it very sad that to ensure their safety, they had to be interogated.
not once did i imply that the other fans should have taken matters into their own hands. i was merely asking a hypothetical question, and asked how would it look to the rest of the fans if security had done NOTHING?? would they have complained MORE to security?? I know if it were ME, and i was concerned, voiced my concerns, and security did NOTHING, then damn skippy they'd hear my mouth again!
and yes it is sad, and does s*ck that they had to be interrogated for 1/2 an hour and were inconvenienced, but to me, it's well worth it if it means putting peoples fears at ease.
Message edited 11/2/2005 1:49:35 PM.
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:45 PM |
| |
|
Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
Posted by LFitzy79
...in my honest opinion-security did the right thing...
It's the price we pay for living in a country where we practice pluralism-we all have to have concessions. To live in America, you might be questioned by security every now and again because there are some people out there that hate pluralism, and are willing to kill to show that thier way is the right way, and the terrorists look just like the rest of us, so we have to check and double check and triple check-and yeah it's inconvenient, and if you don't like it, move to a country where they don't care about your safety, or your guaranteed right to pluralism.
but the United States is built on the idea of freedom and pluralism....
taking that away IMO is taking away everything that this country stands for
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:46 PM |
| |
|
Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
I have some responses:
SECURITY: A few years ago (after 9/11), my friends BF (a hairdresser) flew to Miami- with all his scissors, razors and sheers. He got through security without any problem.
SHOUTING ALLAH BEFORE AN ATTACK: This is EXACTLY what the terrorist who attacked my SIL did before shoting up the street.
QUESTIONING: I think they did the right thing. We live in a free country, but if you are doing something suspicious- police have a right to question you- especially in this day and age. And yes, in an age where Muslim terrorists are threatening us and have already attacked us and others around the world in the name of Allah- a bunch of men getting on their knees at their seats at a football game is suspicious.
I think the since police asked htem questions for 30 minutes and then let them go- nothing was done wrong. Had they beaten them or arrested them- then I would agreet his would be an overaction.
FEARS OF RIOTS: I also think that questioning these men may have saved them from the rest of the peopel taking matters into their own hands, and in a way- this protected the prayers. Good point to whomever made this first.
Message edited 11/2/2005 1:53:38 PM.
|
| Posted 11/2/05 1:51 PM |
| |
|
unknown1
****
Member since 5/05 2771 total posts
Name:
lisa
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
Posted by CaptainCharisma424
all valid points
my take is that i'm not saying that they shouldn't be allowed to practice their religion.
But, given the current state of affairs, and given the president being there, they should understand why they were questioned.
And yes, they do check at the gate, but with 50,000 fans, you can't possibly give everyone a thorough scan.
I completely agree.. THE PRESIDENT was there sooooooooooo they decided to be thorough ... now think of it this way what if they didn't investigate and they blew themselves Up? Then people would say OMG why didn't we do this or that ... you can never find the right answer in a situation like this but if up to me CHECK THEM ALL !
|
| Posted 11/2/05 2:00 PM |
| |
|
LFitzy79
can hardly wait
Member since 5/05 2650 total posts
Name:
Lauren
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
Posted by Redhead
Posted by LFitzy79
...in my honest opinion-security did the right thing...
It's the price we pay for living in a country where we practice pluralism-we all have to have concessions. To live in America, you might be questioned by security every now and again because there are some people out there that hate pluralism, and are willing to kill to show that thier way is the right way, and the terrorists look just like the rest of us, so we have to check and double check and triple check-and yeah it's inconvenient, and if you don't like it, move to a country where they don't care about your safety, or your guaranteed right to pluralism.
but the United States is built on the idea of freedom and pluralism....
taking that away IMO is taking away everything that this country stands for
I totally agree that we are built on the idea of freedom and pluralism, I disagree that security checks, and profiling go against the idea of freedom and pluralism. The people in question were asked to submit to a security check and then were released to go enjoy the game, it may not be the most perfect system, but I think we're working on it.
|
| Posted 11/2/05 2:01 PM |
| |
|
Ren
LIF Infant
Member since 11/05 203 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Interesting topic for discussion
To lighten the mood a little bit: A think it's a little humerous that where else but a football stadium would you find people praying suspicious, but grown men with painted bodies and rainbow wigs, normal?
|
| Posted 11/2/05 2:12 PM |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 |
