Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

Message edited 12/13/2012 8:20:52 PM.

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

Unfortunately I don't think you can change an old dog's ways... there isn't a whole lot you can do from his angle, but think about it this way - you are their mother, and you are their principle guiding light. They spend most of their time with you, so your influence makes the most impact on how they view themselves. We all grow up with negative influences in our life, whether it's a relative, a friend, a teacher, whatever... but many of us also remain grounded and confident in ourselves, because we had at least one guiding, solid person in our life that gave us the love, reassurance and confidence that we needed to shield ourselves from those negative influences.

So my advice to you is to keep the channels of communication as open as you can with your twins. Let them know they can discuss ANYTHING that their father or grandparents told them, and that you will always be there to listen. Ask them about what he says to them, and what their grandparents say to them, and when you think it's inappropriate, address it with them directly.

Give them constant reassurance that you love them, and build their esteem in every little way that you can.

I can't even fathom how difficult it must be for you, I really can't, but I admire the obvious love and adoration you have for your children, and all that you do for them. They will certainly grow up just fine having such a kind, loving and involved mother, because at the end of the day, that's truly all they need to become mature, confident, self-assured women

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

It's not acceptable and while he probably does not understand the damage he is doing (or maybe he does) it's just wrong.

Personally, I hate to hear anyone say anything to a child (particularly girls) "if you love me then you would...." To me, and this is just my opinion, it equals a whole lot of a little girl feeling pressure to do something she doesn't want to do to make someone else happy. It's just not good for them to have to equate doing anything they don't want to do with lack of love. Especially not as they become women who will face the challenges of "if you love me then you would..."

Maybe if you approached him to explain it in these terms he would listen? Does he want his teenage daughters doing anything b/c someone makes them feel guilty? He needs to consider what will come in 5 years!

Not good! I hope he realizes what he is doing - it's unfair to his girls, and potentially really damaging. I'm glad they have a strong mamma to teach them to exert their independence and put their foot down in these situations.

Message edited 10/17/2008 7:39:47 AM.

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

First off


I know you probably wanted to avoid this but if it continues I would consider taking legal action

How horrible for adults to lay guilt trips on children. Like they don't have enough on their plate as it is with the situation they are in. I remember getting to a certain age and wanting to hang with my friends on the weekends as opposed to my mother, my father had custody of us. I also had a had time with keeping school friendships really close because every weekend I was in a different town (and county) What will they say to them when they are 13, 16? I mean no one wants to hang out with their families at that age

Is their anyway you could meet with him and the girls together? Maybe get it all out on the table. Hopefully he won't be able to say they are making up stories if he is right in front of them. Maybe if he could hear how they feel with you there in their own words he may "get it".

I hope you find a resolution for their own sake. Good Luck!!

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

you know what i hate... fathers who are in there children's lives and treat them like that. my daughters birth father is not in her life and it is stories like this make me glad that he is not. he should be ashamed of him self and so should his mother be lucky and grateful that they even see them and are a part of their lives. because if they keep going at it like this they will lose them a lot faster then they think.

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

How horrible of him/them. I'm sorry.

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

Heather.... this is exactly what I'm going through right now as you already know.

And, as you already know.... I'm also in the middle of hte custody/visitation case from hell b/c of his demeanor. I can't trust that he won't be the same to her as he was to me all that time. I would never know - she's an infant. THANK GOD your girls are old enough that they are able to tell you.

He's wrong. That's the black and white of it. But no one needs to tell you this. You know in your heart that your babies are telling you the truth.

It's a hard road, and this is a poor time for this with the way things are economically, but, maybe you should start revising visitation through the courts....

If you need to vent w/someone who totally understands... PLEASE FM ME!

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

I have no advice. Just wanted to say I am sorry you have to deal with this and give you some

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

He sounds like a piece of work... but guess what? Your influence is greater. The proof? Your 10 year old daughter was able to identify his attempt to make her feel guilty and was proud of herself for combatting it successfully.

He sounds like a manipulative person - and unfortunately it is hard for people like that to change. BUT your girls see that! They are only 10 and they aren't putting up with his claptrap! I'd be more worried if they caved into his demands and felt guilty and sad. They are going to be amazing women becuase of you.

Message edited 10/17/2008 8:27:47 AM.

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

I agree with Rojerono.

You can't change anyone but you can provide the trust, openess and love to your girls. This is obviously a success because your girls have the confidence to confront the situation with their father and they can see through him.

I grew up in your girls position except it was my mother who laid the guilt on me. As a child, you will give endless opportunities to your parents to get the love you so need from them, you will love them no matter what they do to you but you will also find their faults. My father was my stronghold because he never talked badly about my mother but always talked about how I was feeling.

You are a great mother and your girls will be great mothers too. Stay strong because you are their rock and they will stay strong too.

All of these things like the he said she said stuff will never go away. When your girls are in high school, go to college, get married, have babies...it doesn't end. The only answer when you are on the otherside is to stay confident and secure and let most of it roll off your back and teach that to your girls.

You are doing an excellent job!

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

Heather,

He needs to grow up and remember what it was like to be a tween or a teen. They want to see their friends. Their friends are their whole world at that age. I have met your daughters and they are BEAUTIFUL and SWEET and he should appreciate them but understand that they are in a phase in their lives when their friends mean everything. As for the comments, I grew up with a lot of that crap too and as long as the girls know that this is not their last piano lesson etc they will learn to roll their eyes and move on. Does it leave scars YES YES YES. Is he an idiot for doing it YES YES YES, but we know he is not going to change. The girls have to be the ones that break the cycle. My father started telling me that he was not going to live to see me graduate junior high, then it was high school, then college, then get married etc. and the ******* is still here. It caused a lot of emotional scars but as an adult, now it makes me realize even more what an azz he is!!! You are giving your girls a strong foundation and just keep reinforcing the positive to them. They will see the light.

They are also getting to the age that if you were to go back to court to adjust the custody their opinions matter A LOT and their comments- he should keep that in mind!

As their mother I can only imagine how nerve racking it is to send them off and wonder what they are going to say and do to them next.

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

I'm sorry this is happening to them and you. I wish I had advice to offer you. All i can think of is keep doing your best in reassuring them and teaching them right. Its great that your daughter recognizes a "guilt trip" too. Hopefully he will come to his senses someday

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

I am so sorry you and your girls are going through this Can you take it up with the courts? Maybe they can help if he is unwilling to grow up and act like a real father

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

Wow I'm sorry this is happening.

The fact that he lays a guilt trip on them shows his level of immaturity and I'm assuming the issues he has with himself. However the fact that it seems like your girls are on to his guilt trip is a good thing....it shows that they are strong and that you have shown them right from wrong.

It seems like talking to him doesn't do the trick and the bottom line is that the girls are capable of making a decision of whether or not they want to spend weekends with their dad. I wouldn't force them to spend the weekends with him if they don't want to and honestly if he gets snippy about it I would look into taking legal action. Maybe setting up a meetng with you and the girls and him and letting the girls explain to him when you say "XYZ" it makes me feel like "XYZ" will help.

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

You cant change him BUT you can change how your dd reacts to what he does. Heather give her some tips on what to say or do when they say hurtful things like that. Make sure they know that they arent bad but and make them aware of what they can do to stay stress free in these kinds of situations. One last thing....dont let him continue to abuse you!!!! Tell him like it is...DONT not tell him that YOU know what he is doing. You dont have to ***** foot around him anymore...you arent involved with him. Make sure HE KNOWS in one simple conversation that you are not going to take him verbally abusing your dds by telling them they dont love him and he needs more attention etc.... In the end hes gonna get exactly what he doesnt want...them hating him!

BTW...HI SIS ...how are ya??? Might want to help out your bro a little Best gift a sis could give a bro is teaching him how to treat his children.

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

Reading this makes me so angry, and yet grateful for my own father at the same time. I'm APPALLED that he spoke to your oldest the way he did. How DARE he tell a child things like that!!

That is emotional blackmail and it's absolutely horrible that he'd try to manipulate your girls in that way, but it's going to come back and bite him in the a$$ one day. From the sounds of it, it's going to happen sooner than later. Good for your DD for standing up to him!

My parents are divorced and I saw my dad once a week for dinner and I spent every other weekend with him. I always felt guilty to him when I'd ask to do something with my friends during his time, and he would always tell me that he understood I was growing up and would have my own life and that maybe I wouldn't always want to hang out with my Daddy.

You know what? I love spending time with my father. I still see him almost every week at 34 years old. Why? Because he let me go when I wanted to be with my friends. Because he didn't force me to spend my time with him even though it was his 'designated' time.

I don't know what you can do to get the twins' dad to stop being an a$$ - because you are what you are, and if their grandmother is pulling the same isht then it's a deeply ingrained behavior - but as their mother you can be there for them. Listen to them. Let them tell you what's on their minds free of judgment from you. They need a parent that they can be comfortable around. But you may also want to remind them that their father does love them, he just doesn't know how to show it properly.

They're lucky that they live with YOU and not him. From my own personal experience, it's so much worse to live with the emotional blackmailer and only get to visit the supportive parent on weekends.

to you and your girls.

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

I typed out an entire response and then DD touched the keyboard and poof! - gone in an instant.

In a nutshell, my opinion has changed based on what dear old dad has said to the twins. Run, do not walk, to family court and file a petition to modify visitation.

I did some looking into things on another case and found out some stuff that is completely relevant to your situation. On October 17, 2007 the law changed. (I knew there was an "attitude" shift, because of some trainings I had been to, but they never said it was b/c the law changed ).

In any event, a law guardian is no longer supposed to act in "the child's best interest" but is now required to "zealously advocate" for their stated position, so long as they are old enough to articulate what that position is.

In essence, because the girls can tell their lawyer they don't want to be with dear old dad every week from Thursday to Sunday, they want to see him on Thursday night, then go home, then spend every other weekend with him, the law guardian is required to be a LAWYER for the child and fight for that position.

Sorry it is coming down to this.

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

Not sure if this is an immature reaction, but maybe you could have the girls respond with "well if you loved me you would let me or you wouldn't make me feel guilty for not staying with you..."
It might make him think about it if they put it to him like that.

Message edited 10/17/2008 12:01:06 PM.

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

Posted by Bxgell2

Unfortunately I don't think you can change an old dog's ways... there isn't a whole lot you can do from his angle, but think about it this way - you are their mother, and you are their principle guiding light. They spend most of their time with you, so your influence makes the most impact on how they view themselves. We all grow up with negative influences in our life, whether it's a relative, a friend, a teacher, whatever... but many of us also remain grounded and confident in ourselves, because we had at least one guiding, solid person in our life that gave us the love, reassurance and confidence that we needed to shield ourselves from those negative influences.

So my advice to you is to keep the channels of communication as open as you can with your twins. Let them know they can discuss ANYTHING that their father or grandparents told them, and that you will always be there to listen. Ask them about what he says to them, and what their grandparents say to them, and when you think it's inappropriate, address it with them directly.

Give them constant reassurance that you love them, and build their esteem in every little way that you can.

I can't even fathom how difficult it must be for you, I really can't, but I admire the obvious love and adoration you have for your children, and all that you do for them. They will certainly grow up just fine having such a kind, loving and involved mother, because at the end of the day, that's truly all they need to become mature, confident, self-assured women

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

Besides speaking to your girls inappropraitely for their age, it sounds as if he needs to gather a better understanding of a 10 year old period---I don't know if somehow, if you do wind up back in court, maybe they can urge your Ex to attend a parenting class, or something along those lines ..It sounds as if he is taking the girls "coming of age" as a personal attack against him and not realizing that it is them growing up and having interests outside of family life- What he doesnt realize is that he's building resentment with them that isnt going to go away unless he gets a grip and works with them a little...You know my circumstance (unfortunately)- it would be really terrible for him to totally jeopardize his relatioship with them over his own selfishness because children really do need the harmony of both parents in their life whenever possible (barring abuse etc... ofcourse) He and they are both lucky you are the BM-

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

Posted by DancinBarefoot

I typed out an entire response and then DD touched the keyboard and poof! - gone in an instant.

In a nutshell, my opinion has changed based on what dear old dad has said to the twins. Run, do not walk, to family court and file a petition to modify visitation.

I did some looking into things on another case and found out some stuff that is completely relevant to your situation. On October 17, 2007 the law changed. (I knew there was an "attitude" shift, because of some trainings I had been to, but they never said it was b/c the law changed ).

In any event, a law guardian is no longer supposed to act in "the child's best interest" but is now required to "zealously advocate" for their stated position, so long as they are old enough to articulate what that position is.

In essence, because the girls can tell their lawyer they don't want to be with dear old dad every week from Thursday to Sunday, they want to see him on Thursday night, then go home, then spend every other weekend with him, the law guardian is required to be a LAWYER for the child and fight for that position.

Sorry it is coming down to this.

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

Posted by DancinBarefoot

I typed out an entire response and then DD touched the keyboard and poof! - gone in an instant.

In a nutshell, my opinion has changed based on what dear old dad has said to the twins. Run, do not walk, to family court and file a petition to modify visitation.

I did some looking into things on another case and found out some stuff that is completely relevant to your situation. On October 17, 2007 the law changed. (I knew there was an "attitude" shift, because of some trainings I had been to, but they never said it was b/c the law changed ).

In any event, a law guardian is no longer supposed to act in "the child's best interest" but is now required to "zealously advocate" for their stated position, so long as they are old enough to articulate what that position is.

In essence, because the girls can tell their lawyer they don't want to be with dear old dad every week from Thursday to Sunday, they want to see him on Thursday night, then go home, then spend every other weekend with him, the law guardian is required to be a LAWYER for the child and fight for that position.

Sorry it is coming down to this.

Message edited 10/17/2008 8:23:01 PM.

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

I don't have any advice just sending you lots and lots of I am sorry you have to deal with this!

Re: Ive been struggling with posting this....Long sorry

Oh Heather, I really don't know the answer here but we have a friend going thru a similar thing w/her 2 girls (they are 14 & 10). Their father is totally verbally mean & abusive to them (like calling them fat and stuff). Our friend basically makes a HUGE effort to tell the girls that their fathers behavior (whatever the story is for that week ) is completely unacceptable. She assures the girls their father loves them but just doesn't always know the right things to say or do. The girls go to therapy as well (they also had to deal w/the whole divorce which is a LONG story) but they are dealing with it. They basically know their father is a creep but their mother never bad mouths him...she really tries to help them understand that he is their father and his choices (in the way he speaks/lives his life, etc) aren't always good choices. They struggle, but they do get it.

Message edited 10/17/2008 2:50:06 PM.