Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

Posted by MommyofG

Posted by MrsR

Posted by stayandjohn

Posted by Goldi0218

I don't think it's a question of offensive versus not offensive. Not everyone believes in a G-d so in that case, as I have said before, I feel its innappropriate to sing in a secular setting. Its not a Jewish vs.Christian thing - more like believers versus potential non-believers issue. Sure you can opt out of singing, but when you pay for something like that, you shouldnt have to.

I do understand that if the original poster said she was Atheist or Agnostic I can see her having a problem, but she said "as a Jewish mother would this bother you"? I'm asking purely because I dont find the word "Lord" or "God" particuarlly offensive (for lack of a better word) when someone has stated that they do belong to a religious affiliation.

I don't find g-d or lord offensive either, but I always associated Kumbaya with being a catholic song. I don't know why or where I learned that...but I am glad I posted about it because now I see that even some jewish people learned the song growing up and I was wrong about it being catholic.


eta: That being said, I am still not sure gymnastics is the place for it...but it's not that big of a deal.

see this is what I dont understand either- you were upset b/c you thought it was a "catholic" song- why would that make you angry? you do live in america where there are a ton of religions. Why would it make you mad that your DC is learning different cultures especially through music? Isnt this why this world is in such a mess b/c we all just cant seem to find a happy ground with eachother ?
I mean so what, they are taught about different religions, cultures etc. that doesnt mean thats what they practice at home or believe in. Its about expanding, learning and not keeping them inhibited.
I can see if you lived in a particular country where that is the religion and thats it and they were singing that but c'mon here in new york- the melting pot.
Gymnastics I can see, that song is used in yoga maybe it was during stretch or cool down after, its a mellow song to unwind to too. Its an uplifting song believe it or not and leaves you jolly and smiley.

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

Posted by Bxgell2

Posted by MommyofG

Posted by MrsR

Posted by stayandjohn

Posted by Goldi0218

I don't think it's a question of offensive versus not offensive. Not everyone believes in a G-d so in that case, as I have said before, I feel its innappropriate to sing in a secular setting. Its not a Jewish vs.Christian thing - more like believers versus potential non-believers issue. Sure you can opt out of singing, but when you pay for something like that, you shouldnt have to.

I do understand that if the original poster said she was Atheist or Agnostic I can see her having a problem, but she said "as a Jewish mother would this bother you"? I'm asking purely because I dont find the word "Lord" or "God" particuarlly offensive (for lack of a better word) when someone has stated that they do belong to a religious affiliation.

I don't find g-d or lord offensive either, but I always associated Kumbaya with being a catholic song. I don't know why or where I learned that...but I am glad I posted about it because now I see that even some jewish people learned the song growing up and I was wrong about it being catholic.


eta: That being said, I am still not sure gymnastics is the place for it...but it's not that big of a deal.

see this is what I dont understand either- you were upset b/c you thought it was a "catholic" song- why would that make you angry? you do live in america where there are a ton of religions. Why would it make you mad that your DC is learning different cultures especially through music? Isnt this why this world is in such a mess b/c we all just cant seem to find a happy ground with eachother ?
I mean so what, they are taught about different religions, cultures etc. that doesnt mean thats what they practice at home or believe in. Its about expanding, learning and not keeping them inhibited.
I can see if you lived in a particular country where that is the religion and thats it and they were singing that but c'mon here in new york- the melting pot.
Gymnastics I can see, that song is used in yoga maybe it was during stretch or cool down after, its a mellow song to unwind to too. Its an uplifting song believe it or not and leaves you jolly and smiley.

I see your point, but I don't think it's entirely realistic. I DO think that learning about other cultures and religions is SO important for every child. But, in this country, at least with music, most exposure is to one particular religion. You don't hear a lot of jewish religious music when you're out and about, nor do you hear muslim religious music when out and about. Most of the religious music that is played in public places is of christian origin. So, for those of us who aren't christian, or who aren't even religious for that matter, may sometimes feel like it is a bit much.

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

I just have to add this too- how many jewish people drive a Mercedes?
It is the biggest Oxymoron I have ever seen.
Mercedes is a German car- a company that made the ovens - the emblem is right on them.

This is very confusing. How music and words bother people, but many of those who are bothered support and invest their money into a company that killed many of their ancestors. Not anyone here per say, I am saying in general.

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

Posted by LuvMy2Girls

Posted by Bxgell2

Posted by MommyofG

Posted by MrsR

Posted by stayandjohn

Posted by Goldi0218

I don't think it's a question of offensive versus not offensive. Not everyone believes in a G-d so in that case, as I have said before, I feel its innappropriate to sing in a secular setting. Its not a Jewish vs.Christian thing - more like believers versus potential non-believers issue. Sure you can opt out of singing, but when you pay for something like that, you shouldnt have to.

I do understand that if the original poster said she was Atheist or Agnostic I can see her having a problem, but she said "as a Jewish mother would this bother you"? I'm asking purely because I dont find the word "Lord" or "God" particuarlly offensive (for lack of a better word) when someone has stated that they do belong to a religious affiliation.

I don't find g-d or lord offensive either, but I always associated Kumbaya with being a catholic song. I don't know why or where I learned that...but I am glad I posted about it because now I see that even some jewish people learned the song growing up and I was wrong about it being catholic.


eta: That being said, I am still not sure gymnastics is the place for it...but it's not that big of a deal.

see this is what I dont understand either- you were upset b/c you thought it was a "catholic" song- why would that make you angry? you do live in america where there are a ton of religions. Why would it make you mad that your DC is learning different cultures especially through music? Isnt this why this world is in such a mess b/c we all just cant seem to find a happy ground with eachother ?
I mean so what, they are taught about different religions, cultures etc. that doesnt mean thats what they practice at home or believe in. Its about expanding, learning and not keeping them inhibited.
I can see if you lived in a particular country where that is the religion and thats it and they were singing that but c'mon here in new york- the melting pot.
Gymnastics I can see, that song is used in yoga maybe it was during stretch or cool down after, its a mellow song to unwind to too. Its an uplifting song believe it or not and leaves you jolly and smiley.

I see your point, but I don't think it's entirely realistic. I DO think that learning about other cultures and religions is SO important for every child. But, in this country, at least with music, most exposure is to one particular religion. You don't hear a lot of jewish religious music when you're out and about, nor do you hear muslim religious music when out and about. Most of the religious music that is played in public places is of christian origin. So, for those of us who aren't christian, or who aren't even religious for that matter, may sometimes feel like it is a bit much.

That i can understand, and it's true, but the majority of people practice some sort of christian faith in the USA. It's the majority, so of course you'd hear/see more christian tones in everything.

In isreal, do you see lots of christian symbols/songs/items? I'm sure you don't cause the majority of people practice judaism.

Just my 2 cents

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

Posted by Bxgell2

Posted by LuvMy2Girls

Posted by Bxgell2

Posted by MommyofG

Posted by MrsR

Posted by stayandjohn

Posted by Goldi0218

I don't think it's a question of offensive versus not offensive. Not everyone believes in a G-d so in that case, as I have said before, I feel its innappropriate to sing in a secular setting. Its not a Jewish vs.Christian thing - more like believers versus potential non-believers issue. Sure you can opt out of singing, but when you pay for something like that, you shouldnt have to.

I do understand that if the original poster said she was Atheist or Agnostic I can see her having a problem, but she said "as a Jewish mother would this bother you"? I'm asking purely because I dont find the word "Lord" or "God" particuarlly offensive (for lack of a better word) when someone has stated that they do belong to a religious affiliation.

I don't find g-d or lord offensive either, but I always associated Kumbaya with being a catholic song. I don't know why or where I learned that...but I am glad I posted about it because now I see that even some jewish people learned the song growing up and I was wrong about it being catholic.


eta: That being said, I am still not sure gymnastics is the place for it...but it's not that big of a deal.

see this is what I dont understand either- you were upset b/c you thought it was a "catholic" song- why would that make you angry? you do live in america where there are a ton of religions. Why would it make you mad that your DC is learning different cultures especially through music? Isnt this why this world is in such a mess b/c we all just cant seem to find a happy ground with eachother ?
I mean so what, they are taught about different religions, cultures etc. that doesnt mean thats what they practice at home or believe in. Its about expanding, learning and not keeping them inhibited.
I can see if you lived in a particular country where that is the religion and thats it and they were singing that but c'mon here in new york- the melting pot.
Gymnastics I can see, that song is used in yoga maybe it was during stretch or cool down after, its a mellow song to unwind to too. Its an uplifting song believe it or not and leaves you jolly and smiley.

I see your point, but I don't think it's entirely realistic. I DO think that learning about other cultures and religions is SO important for every child. But, in this country, at least with music, most exposure is to one particular religion. You don't hear a lot of jewish religious music when you're out and about, nor do you hear muslim religious music when out and about. Most of the religious music that is played in public places is of christian origin. So, for those of us who aren't christian, or who aren't even religious for that matter, may sometimes feel like it is a bit much.

That i can understand, and it's true, but the majority of people practice some sort of christian faith in the USA. It's the majority, so of course you'd hear/see more christian tones in everything.

In isreal, do you see lots of christian symbols/songs/items? I'm sure you don't cause the majority of people practice judaism.

Just my 2 cents

Interesting point you make, actually - in Israel 75% of the population is secular, meaning, non-religious. But, the 25% of the population that is religious, controls the government. SO, yes, in Israel, there is a LOT of religious paraphenalia, and the entire country shuts down on religious holidays. And I'll tell you this, the 75% of the population that is secular, aren't happy about it. Ask any secular Israeli, and you'll get an earful, for about an hour

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

see this is what I dont understand either- you were upset b/c you thought it was a "catholic" song- why would that make you angry? you do live in america where there are a ton of religions. Why would it make you mad that your DC is learning different cultures especially through music? Isnt this why this world is in such a mess b/c we all just cant seem to find a happy ground with eachother ?
I mean so what, they are taught about different religions, cultures etc. that doesnt mean thats what they practice at home or believe in. Its about expanding, learning and not keeping them inhibited.
I can see if you lived in a particular country where that is the religion and thats it and they were singing that but c'mon here in new york- the melting pot.
Gymnastics I can see, that song is used in yoga maybe it was during stretch or cool down after, its a mellow song to unwind to too. Its an uplifting song believe it or not and leaves you jolly and smiley.

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

I always thought of it as a "kid" song. I even looked up children's songs and the website listed it with "You are my Sunshine" and such. I wouldn't have been offended by it because I never thought of it as a religious song.

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

Posted by LuvMy2Girls

That i can understand, and it's true, but the majority of people practice some sort of christian faith in the USA. It's the majority, so of course you'd hear/see more christian tones in everything.

In isreal, do you see lots of christian symbols/songs/items? I'm sure you don't cause the majority of people practice judaism.

Just my 2 cents

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

I wouldn't care - at all.

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

Posted by Bxgell2

Posted by LuvMy2Girls

That i can understand, and it's true, but the majority of people practice some sort of christian faith in the USA. It's the majority, so of course you'd hear/see more christian tones in everything.

In isreal, do you see lots of christian symbols/songs/items? I'm sure you don't cause the majority of people practice judaism.

Just my 2 cents

Interesting point you make, actually - in Israel 75% of the population is secular, meaning, non-religious. But, the 25% of the population that is religious, controls the government. SO, yes, in Israel, there is a LOT of religious paraphenalia, and the entire country shuts down on religious holidays. And I'll tell you this, the 75% of the population that is secular, aren't happy about it. Ask any secular Israeli, and you'll get an earful, for about an hour

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

Quoted- To be honest, I think this is an entirely different post altogether!! And although I am not really sure what it has to do with the OP I will say I would never drive a mercedes, although I don't flame people that do...it is different times now.


If its different times now then why would a song bother you?
I honestly dont think the teacher sought out to teach her class about religion.
I cant wait for my DD to be able to understand and be taught about this wonderful world and all it has to offer including different cultures, foods, languages and religions. I am going to teach her too with books and music. At the end of the day no matter what religion or non religion there is something that we either pray to or ask guidance from and that is what is important.

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

Posted by Bxgell2

Posted by monkeybride

Posted by stayandjohn

May I ask why songs like God Bless America and Kumbaya would be offensive. I mean technically Christians and Jews worship the same God, just in different ways. I could see if the songs were Kumbaya my Jesus or Jesus Bless America, then yes by all means it would be something that should be addressed.

Not trying to start drama, but I really dont get it

What about people who don't believe in God and don't want their children singing about God because they don't believe in it?

This is me. While we are deeply entrenched in jewish culture, we are both atheist. I do recognize, however, that we are an extreme minority so I would *never* say anything and I completely understand that I'm somewhat oversensitive to the issue, and given the fact that Alex attends a conservative jewish preschool, it's expected. When she gets older, I will find a less religious, and more cultural oriented school.

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

Posted by monkeybride

Posted by Bxgell2

Posted by monkeybride

Posted by stayandjohn

May I ask why songs like God Bless America and Kumbaya would be offensive. I mean technically Christians and Jews worship the same God, just in different ways. I could see if the songs were Kumbaya my Jesus or Jesus Bless America, then yes by all means it would be something that should be addressed.

Not trying to start drama, but I really dont get it

What about people who don't believe in God and don't want their children singing about God because they don't believe in it?

This is me. While we are deeply entrenched in jewish culture, we are both atheist. I do recognize, however, that we are an extreme minority so I would *never* say anything and I completely understand that I'm somewhat oversensitive to the issue, and given the fact that Alex attends a conservative jewish preschool, it's expected. When she gets older, I will find a less religious, and more cultural oriented school.

My DH would love you.

I went to great lengths to make sure God was not mentioned in our wedding at all. My born again Christian mother was thrilled with that I'm sure.

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

Posted by MrsR

see this is what I dont understand either- you were upset b/c you thought it was a "catholic" song- why would that make you angry? you do live in america where there are a ton of religions. Why would it make you mad that your DC is learning different cultures especially through music? Isnt this why this world is in such a mess b/c we all just cant seem to find a happy ground with eachother ?
I mean so what, they are taught about different religions, cultures etc. that doesnt mean thats what they practice at home or believe in. Its about expanding, learning and not keeping them inhibited.
I can see if you lived in a particular country where that is the religion and thats it and they were singing that but c'mon here in new york- the melting pot.
Gymnastics I can see, that song is used in yoga maybe it was during stretch or cool down after, its a mellow song to unwind to too. Its an uplifting song believe it or not and leaves you jolly and smiley.

I never used the words angry or mad in my OP. I said it kind of bothered me. I think it is great to teach kids tolerance and about other religions/cultures through music/food, etc... But DD is there to learn cartwheels...not religion.

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

Posted by Bxgell2

Posted by monkeybride




get it

What about people who don't believe in God and don't want their children singing about God because they don't believe in it?

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

If it bothers you, you can always suggest to them to play a more diverse selection of music by adding in other faiths music too? This way your not asking them not to play the song but instead suggest a song you know in your faith that they could possible play also.

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

Just to address some of the points made by others without quoting... AND YES it is a very long, tangential rant.

You will never see ME drive a Mercedes for the reason stated. What other Jews choose to do is their own business and I don't judge them for doing so. I also never bought AGFA film - makers of the Zyklon B gasses used in the death camps. I try my best NOT to support any company that played ANY type of role in the destruction of my heritage. At the same time, I do not frown upon Germany or Austria (where Hitler was from) and do not hold their citizens responsible for what happened years sgo.

I also DO NOT frown upon Catholicism or other Christian based religions (forgive my ignorance in not knowing exactly how to address them as a whole) or any other religion for that matter. I would not tolerate my children excluding, or denouncing a child or adult of another faith.

Just as it is ok to raise children in a melting pot, it is equally acceptable to wish to maintain a solid background of my own faith. I live in a predominantly Catholic neighborhood. Shoot I have a statue of the Virgin Mary on my front lawn (belongs to my landlord - we rent the top of a two family) but I have a mezzuzah on almost every door inside of my home. I proudly display a menorah (2 actually) in the window of our home at Chanukah knowing full well we are the only Jews on the block.

Just because I am not thrilled about hearing a song based in religion at a secular gathering, does not mean in any way that I am intolerant of others. I would be terribly hurt if someone EVER perceived me in that way. Most of my closest friends are Catholic. This past Christmas, I spent the morning at a bris and the evening having Christmas dinner with one of my favorite LIW/LIFers and celebrated her family's religion. I marveled in the beauty of her tree and almost wished she waited forme to help her decorate it (Thx Flatbread )

For MANY Jewish people, our religion IS our culture so we embrace it a bit differently and I think that is what Beth meant (correct me if I am wrong Beth). I have said this MANY times on the boards before, but there are only 13 million Jews world-wide with most living here in the United States in heavily populated coastal cities. Within that group, most are in the NY metro area. We make up about 3% of the religion in the country and less than 1/4 of one percent of the entire world. Those of us who practice even in the smallest little bit, hold on to this thought and work our best to make sure that our religion and culture is not completely eradicated - which sadly it is very close. You don't see it here in NY, but it is a BIG problem.

It is also sad to say that even though we have so many open minded people here and around us who are willing and able to learn about other cultures, there are MANY more who find the Jewish faith threatening and still perpetuate old-school thoughts that we have horns coming out of our heads. And yes, I have been called a "Christ Killer" in recent years - almost brought me to tears.

I am terribly sorry for the ramble and rant. I try my best not to get caught up in controversy but when people of my faith are lumped together as intolerant. I have to speak up.

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

Well, I am very accepting so...as a Catholic it would not bother me if my children were exposed to Jewish music or other. But then again I am married to a Jewish man. I really am not sure what the big deal is if our children learn about all religions.

That being said, I guess they shouldn't be playing it in that setting unless they are playing music from other religions and cultures.

Re: jewish moms (or other) would this bother you? (might be controversial)

In our Music Together class we sing Native American, Jewish, and Christian songs.....I love that all music is appreciated for what it is - music. And that I am teaching my daughter that as well.