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John McCain's health care plan...
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
Posted by cjik
Posted by Lucky09
Yes, thank you for posting!
I forwarded this article to all of my friends who are voting for McCain because they are "afraid" Obama will raise their taxes!
Thank you! Everyone keeps talking about Obama raising their taxes, yet expert after expert has noted that most low and middle income taxpayers, about 91% of Americans I believe, would benefit more under his plan than McCains.
Obama wants to rais more taxes for the rich not the middle class, people only say he wants to raise taxes.....as for the OP this is one of the reasons I am voting for Obama
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Posted 9/17/08 3:24 PM  |
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dandr10199
Grace is growing up too fast!
Member since 10/05 11561 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
Posted by Janice
OMG....thanks for posting this.
He has no idea what's going on in households if he thinks a 5K credit is going to cover anything....
The gap is going to get wider and wider between the have and have nots
ITA. This is INSANE. Both health care plans (McCain and Obama) SUCK BALLS IMHO. We are going to loose really wonderful brilliant doctors. People will not be able to choose the best doctors and GOD forbid you have a pre-exisiting condition.  NYS covers pre-existing conditions, other states do not. ARRRGGGHHHH...So one wants to tax us up the yaya and give us less options... and the other wants to run health care like a communist country (by giving EVERYONE health care and socializing it) this will drive out the good doctors so that if I need another surgery a surgeon who does not know his azz from his elbow will be slicing me open. wonderful.
THIS SUCKS BIG TIME!!! Can't they figure out a way to do this with out it being azz backwards? people paying taxes? or me have to be put on a four year wait list for a heart surgery with a decent surgeon? This will happen if health care is socialized. MANY folks saw my surgeon at Columbia from the UK, France, Italy basically all over Europe where health care is socialized. The waiting room in his office for a consult was like the United Nations. I am NOT kidding. Families were told that their children with MAJOR heart defects were put on a four year wait list for surgery. If they wanted faster care they were told to go to the US and pay privately, so many did. I have met them in the waiting room of my surgeon's and cardiologist's offices.
ATTN McCain & Obama: If it does not work in Europe, it will not work here!!!! YOU Dumb azzes: ARRRGGGHHHH
Vent over. 
Message edited 9/17/2008 3:42:00 PM.
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| Posted 9/17/08 3:36 PM |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
you know what I think the cause of all the bs is? Insurance! If we got rid of them, as the middle man, we'd get rid of a lot of our problems.
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| Posted 9/17/08 3:39 PM |
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itkocak
Member since 7/07 7639 total posts
Name:
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
Message edited 11/21/2011 8:45:42 PM.
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| Posted 9/17/08 3:47 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
Posted by Sassyz75
you know what I think the cause of all the bs is? Insurance! If we got rid of them, as the middle man, we'd get rid of a lot of our problems.
actually, fraud and litigation are the biggest problems in the health care industry.
malpractice premiums are OUT OF CONTROL b/c of the liability in law suits. doctors stop practicing b/c they can't afford the PREMIUMS. OBGYN's and pediatricians are hardest hit with these.
we need to STOP frivilous litigation and CAP recoveries in all but the most agregious (and criminal) of negligence cases.
and people, please be cognizant of your physician's billing practices.
there is TREMENDOUS amount of fraud being perpetrated by doctors. pay especially clost attention to the older people in your life if you have anything to do with their health.
it's a vicious cycle. docs trying to see more patients b/c ins plans pay them for QUANTITY, and their quality suffers as the time spent with each patient is compromised. this ADDS to the incidence of malpractice litigation, which raises premiums, which causes docs to charge more for services so they can pay their rent, office staff, student loans, and malpractice insurance.
being a doctor is not the cush life it once was.
it's an awful situation any way you slice it.
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| Posted 9/17/08 3:54 PM |
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evnme
My little lamb
Member since 8/05 12633 total posts
Name:
aka momma2b
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
my DH follows politics better than i do and this is what he said:
Always be aware of something when it is an "Opinion Editorial," coming from the New York Times. They are absolutely in the tank for Obama. They would not even let John Mccain post an editorial, but they gave an entire parge to Obama.
I read John Mccain's plan and there is nothing in there that says that employer-based benefits would income will be treated as income and we will need to pay taxes in it. That is pure rubbish and a flat out lie. Mccain's health plan is OK. His idea is to give tax credits to people who opt out of employer based benefits. The idea is to improve the quality of health care by fostering competition between the insurance companies. Also, people do not hvae to rely on their employers to provide health care and people can go to the doctors of their choice instead of who their employer covers. There are some flaws but it is a far better idea than a national health care system.
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| Posted 9/17/08 4:17 PM |
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dandr10199
Grace is growing up too fast!
Member since 10/05 11561 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
Posted by evnme
my DH follows politics better than i do and this is what he said:
Always be aware of something when it is an "Opinion Editorial," coming from the New York Times. They are absolutely in the tank for Obama. They would not even let John Mccain post an editorial, but they gave an entire parge to Obama.
I read John Mccain's plan and there is nothing in there that says that employer-based benefits would income will be treated as income and we will need to pay taxes in it. That is pure rubbish and a flat out lie. Mccain's health plan is OK. His idea is to give tax credits to people who opt out of employer based benefits. The idea is to improve the quality of health care by fostering competition between the insurance companies. Also, people do not hvae to rely on their employers to provide health care and people can go to the doctors of their choice instead of who their employer covers. There are some flaws but it is a far better idea than a national health care system.
THANK YOU!!! 
I THOUGHT that what you wrote was McCain's plan, BUT when I read that article...I became livid. Thank you again for explain it and providing us with the truth.  Like you said...flawed, not not socialized health care which would be THE WORST thing to happen.
Message edited 9/17/2008 4:20:28 PM.
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| Posted 9/17/08 4:19 PM |
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itkocak
Member since 7/07 7639 total posts
Name:
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
Message edited 11/21/2011 8:46:02 PM.
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| Posted 9/17/08 4:20 PM |
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evnme
My little lamb
Member since 8/05 12633 total posts
Name:
aka momma2b
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
Posted by dandr10199
THANK YOU!!!
I THOUGHT that what you wrote was McCain's plan, BUT when I read that article...I became livid. Thank you again for explain it and providing us with the truth. Like you said...flawed, not not socialized health care which would be THE WORST thing to happen.
my DH wrote all that. 
Message edited 9/17/2008 4:29:25 PM.
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| Posted 9/17/08 4:25 PM |
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mom2mgn
Love my family
Member since 2/08 2267 total posts
Name:
Christine
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
I'm just trying to understand all of this so bear with me.
So, under McCain's plan, let's say a 21 year old college grad gets his first job. He opts out of his employer's insurance b/c he's young and would rather get the tax break. He gets his own insurance which is a policy that covers only the basics because he's young and healthy and feels he doesn't need all that other stuff. Then, he gets sick. Serious illness. Who pays?? He does, right? Because he chose cheap insurance because at the time, he was fine. And who pays in the end?? We all do b/c he's not the only one who did this and now we have people who are sick and with no coverage for it????
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| Posted 9/17/08 4:28 PM |
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Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
Name:
Susan
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
Posted by evnme
my DH follows politics better than i do and this is what he said:
Always be aware of something when it is an "Opinion Editorial," coming from the New York Times. They are absolutely in the tank for Obama. They would not even let John Mccain post an editorial, but they gave an entire parge to Obama.
I read John Mccain's plan and there is nothing in there that says that employer-based benefits would income will be treated as income and we will need to pay taxes in it. That is pure rubbish and a flat out lie. Mccain's health plan is OK. His idea is to give tax credits to people who opt out of employer based benefits. The idea is to improve the quality of health care by fostering competition between the insurance companies. Also, people do not hvae to rely on their employers to provide health care and people can go to the doctors of their choice instead of who their employer covers. There are some flaws but it is a far better idea than a national health care system.
It won't foster compeititon. Many, many people have plans and can go out of network. It would have to be a giant tax credit in order for it to work. If I opted out of my plan and paid out of pocket, I would have incurred $56,000 in medical expenses last year. I didn't have brain surgery, open heart or spend any time in the ICU.
People will just not go to the doctor. They will take their tax credit and say, thanks! I could go even deeper into this about the strain on our welfare system when those people go to the ER and can't and won't pay for care.
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| Posted 9/17/08 4:29 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
Posted by evnme
my DH follows politics better than i do and this is what he said:
Always be aware of something when it is an "Opinion Editorial," coming from the New York Times. They are absolutely in the tank for Obama. They would not even let John Mccain post an editorial, but they gave an entire parge to Obama.
I read John Mccain's plan and there is nothing in there that says that employer-based benefits would income will be treated as income and we will need to pay taxes in it. That is pure rubbish and a flat out lie. Mccain's health plan is OK. His idea is to give tax credits to people who opt out of employer based benefits. The idea is to improve the quality of health care by fostering competition between the insurance companies. Also, people do not hvae to rely on their employers to provide health care and people can go to the doctors of their choice instead of who their employer covers. There are some flaws but it is a far better idea than a national health care system.
where did he read John McCain's plan? on his website? he doesn't talk about how he'll implement ANY of his plans.
it's not a lie. at all.
McCain Overpromises
McCain made his tax plan sound way too generous to middle-income taxpayers, incorrectly describing one of his own proposals and omitting a key feature of another:
McCain: Let's have - keep taxes low. Let's give every family in America a $7,000 tax credit for every child they have. Let's give them a $5,000 refundable tax credit to go out and get the health insurance of their choice. Let's not have the government take over the health care system in America.
David McNew/Getty Images
Getting his own "tax credit" wrong: McCain was badly wrong in what he said about the child "tax credit." The current child tax credit is $1,000, and McCain is not proposing any increase at all. What McCain actually is proposing is a gradual increase in the $3,500 exemption for each dependent child, starting in 2010 and increasing $500 each year until it reaches $7,000 in 2016. On his Web site McCain describes this as a "doubling" of the exemption, but even that is misleading. According to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, the exemption is expected to go up to $4,200 per child in that time period under current law, which calls for annual adjustments for inflation.
The distinction between a tax credit and a tax exemption is both basic and significant. A tax credit is a dollar-for-dollar reduction in the amount of tax owed. An exemption is much less valuable to taxpayers, as it merely reduces the amount of income subject to tax. An exemption is also more valuable to upper-income taxpayers, who fall into higher tax brackets, than to middle- and lower-income taxpayers.
A half-truth about a health tax credit: McCain said he proposed giving every family "a $5,000 refundable tax credit to go out and get the health insurance of their choice." But he failed to mention what he would also take away. Under his plan, workers would be taxed on the value of any health benefits paid for by their employers, which isn't the case under current law.
McCain didn't include that fact in an ad his campaign aired in May touting his health care plan, either. As we said at the time, the credit isn't a $5,000 windfall – it's designed to cover the increased taxes families with employer-sponsored insurance would have to pay. Kenneth E. Thorpe, a former Clinton administration health expert who now is a professor at Emory University, told us that there would be "a lot of winners and losers" under McCain's plan. Those with lower incomes and employer-sponsored insurance might fare better, because they'd be taxed at a lower rate than those in higher tax brackets. While families would get a $5,000 credit under McCain's plan, individuals would get $2,500
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| Posted 9/17/08 4:39 PM |
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evnme
My little lamb
Member since 8/05 12633 total posts
Name:
aka momma2b
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
DH sent me this from the Associated Press:
updated 9:09 a.m. ET, Thurs., Nov. 1, 2007
WASHINGTON - John McCain clarified an element of his health care plan, saying that employers who provide their workers coverage still would get tax breaks.
The Republican presidential candidate said that has been the case since he first announced his proposal three weeks ago, and he apologized for any confusion.
At the time, aides indicated that to help pay for the sweeping reforms, McCain would end a provision in the tax code that allows employers to deduct the cost of health care from their taxable earnings.
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| Posted 9/17/08 8:00 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
and if Obama implements socialized healthcare in the US, you can expect to pay 45% income tax instead of approx 30-33%
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| Posted 9/17/08 9:07 PM |
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pmpkn087
Life is good...
Member since 9/05 18504 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
Aren't we already taxed on our health insurance plans paid for by employers? It goes on your W2 as taxable income under benefits or fringe benefits. maybe I'm wrong and maybe it doesn't. And, if it's not and it does, then I doubt most of us would end up paying 5K in taxes on the insurance policies. Insurance is expensive, but corporations get huge discounts.
My dad pays $1,200 a month for private insurance And it is going up to 1500 next month.
My company pays for family coverage something in the 600s (don't know exact dollar amount) and we have much better coverage - though it is getting progressively worse
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| Posted 9/17/08 9:18 PM |
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wannabemom
look who's freshly baked!
Member since 12/07 7364 total posts
Name:
aka marriedinportjeff
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
I won't comment on either candidates 'plan'... but I will voice my opinion on some catch saying people use in healthcare debates that always make me
Socialized medicine is horrible and all good Dr's will disappear and our quality of healthcare will drop tremendously.
Complete panic statement and exageration. Lets for a moment disucss REAL american healthcare, not theoretical care. Our current system (with HMOs and tons of litigation) has caused many specialties to have problems recruiting new phycisians.
GP's, who once were the authorities on everything and the first go-to guy for a patient have been reduced in quality for years. It's common knowledge that GP residents are often the ones who weren't accepted in other residency programs... this is becuase the HMO's have reduced this specialty to giving out referrals for the most part, and are cheating them of decent pay.
OBs are disappearing FAST becuase of unrumountable malpractice insurance.
So now, it's getting hard for people (especially outside of metro areas like ours) to find decent GPs and OBs.
This wonderful theory that we can go to any world famous physician we want for our unusual surgery is mythology. most people have huge restrictions on what in-network Dr. they can go to... and if they even have the option to go out of network, they will be paying huge co-payments that they likely can't afford for something as serious as a surgical procedure. If you're WEALTHY, sure, sky's the limit... alas, many of us are NOT that wealthy.
Now onto 'socialized medicine is horrible care relative to our american system'. well, there was a very good PBS documentary about socialized medicine throughout the world, and frankly, most of the horror stories iterated in these arguments (waiting 6 mo for life-saving surgery, having poor quality Dr's, or inadequate access) was BLOWN OUT OF THE WATER. those are the exceptions, not the norms. I wish I could recall the PBS documentary... I'm fairly sure it was a frontline investigation.
When looking at population statistics, overall, europeans and asians with universal coverage have better health, longer lifespans, and less preventable diseases than americans. this is primarily becuase there are so many americans w/o any health coverage at all, becuase they can't afford it.
There are also lower rates of cessarian and birth complications, and lower infant mortality rates, becuase everyone has access to prenatal care.
Also, they noted that universal coverage usually encourages more prevenatative treatments, becuase it is cost-effective, along with increasing the overall health of the patient.
so, don't presume our nonstandardized system with all of its 'freedoms' are so great.... research it before you presume it's better than germany or japan. Their physicians are just as educated as ours, and apparently, population studies have shown they have a better chance at a long healthy life than we do.
oh, there is one thing that is totally not refuted. the US pays more than twice as much per capita for health care (that's including all of the uninsured!) than any country w/ universal coverage.
(this is primarily becuase the entire country can negotiate prices for drugs and supplies.)
Our country has been duped IMO
Message edited 9/17/2008 9:47:47 PM.
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| Posted 9/17/08 9:44 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11486 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
Posted by dandr10199
ITA. This is INSANE. Both health care plans (McCain and Obama) SUCK BALLS IMHO. We are going to loose really wonderful brilliant doctors. People will not be able to choose the best doctors and GOD forbid you have a pre-exisiting condition. NYS covers pre-existing conditions, other states do not. ARRRGGGHHHH...So one wants to tax us up the yaya and give us less options... and the other wants to run health care like a communist country (by giving EVERYONE health care and socializing it) this will drive out the good doctors so that if I need another surgery a surgeon who does not know his azz from his elbow will be slicing me open. wonderful.
THIS SUCKS BIG TIME!!! Can't they figure out a way to do this with out it being azz backwards? people paying taxes? or me have to be put on a four year wait list for a heart surgery with a decent surgeon? This will happen if health care is socialized. MANY folks saw my surgeon at Columbia from the UK, France, Italy basically all over Europe where health care is socialized. The waiting room in his office for a consult was like the United Nations. I am NOT kidding. Families were told that their children with MAJOR heart defects were put on a four year wait list for surgery. If they wanted faster care they were told to go to the US and pay privately, so many did. I have met them in the waiting room of my surgeon's and cardiologist's offices.
ATTN McCain & Obama: If it does not work in Europe, it will not work here!!!! YOU Dumb azzes: ARRRGGGHHHH
Vent over.
I don't think you can say that until you live in a country with socialised medicine.
I live in a country with socialised medicine with the option of getting private in addition. I get health care for doctors for free and I pay $18 a week extra for full dental and private hospital. If I were unemployed I would still have this. People are not waiting years to get operations. Why can't the US get a system like this?
I DO NOT LIVE IN A COMMUNIST COUNTRY. Socialised medicine does not equal communism. Don't knock it until you've tried it.
Message edited 9/18/2008 6:35:08 AM.
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| Posted 9/18/08 6:34 AM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11486 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
Posted by wannabemom
I won't comment on either candidates 'plan'... but I will voice my opinion on some catch saying people use in healthcare debates that always make me
Socialized medicine is horrible and all good Dr's will disappear and our quality of healthcare will drop tremendously.
Complete panic statement and exageration. Lets for a moment disucss REAL american healthcare, not theoretical care. Our current system (with HMOs and tons of litigation) has caused many specialties to have problems recruiting new phycisians.
GP's, who once were the authorities on everything and the first go-to guy for a patient have been reduced in quality for years. It's common knowledge that GP residents are often the ones who weren't accepted in other residency programs... this is becuase the HMO's have reduced this specialty to giving out referrals for the most part, and are cheating them of decent pay.
OBs are disappearing FAST becuase of unrumountable malpractice insurance.
So now, it's getting hard for people (especially outside of metro areas like ours) to find decent GPs and OBs.
This wonderful theory that we can go to any world famous physician we want for our unusual surgery is mythology. most people have huge restrictions on what in-network Dr. they can go to... and if they even have the option to go out of network, they will be paying huge co-payments that they likely can't afford for something as serious as a surgical procedure. If you're WEALTHY, sure, sky's the limit... alas, many of us are NOT that wealthy.
Now onto 'socialized medicine is horrible care relative to our american system'. well, there was a very good PBS documentary about socialized medicine throughout the world, and frankly, most of the horror stories iterated in these arguments (waiting 6 mo for life-saving surgery, having poor quality Dr's, or inadequate access) was BLOWN OUT OF THE WATER. those are the exceptions, not the norms. I wish I could recall the PBS documentary... I'm fairly sure it was a frontline investigation.
When looking at population statistics, overall, europeans and asians with universal coverage have better health, longer lifespans, and less preventable diseases than americans. this is primarily becuase there are so many americans w/o any health coverage at all, becuase they can't afford it.
There are also lower rates of cessarian and birth complications, and lower infant mortality rates, becuase everyone has access to prenatal care.
Also, they noted that universal coverage usually encourages more prevenatative treatments, becuase it is cost-effective, along with increasing the overall health of the patient.
so, don't presume our nonstandardized system with all of its 'freedoms' are so great.... research it before you presume it's better than germany or japan. Their physicians are just as educated as ours, and apparently, population studies have shown they have a better chance at a long healthy life than we do.
oh, there is one thing that is totally not refuted. the US pays more than twice as much per capita for health care (that's including all of the uninsured!) than any country w/ universal coverage.
(this is primarily becuase the entire country can negotiate prices for drugs and supplies.)
Our country has been duped IMO
Thank you! You said that much better than what was on my mind. It really annoys me when people compare socialised medicine to communism. If you live in a country with socialised medicine then you will see that it does and can work. DH and I want to go back one day to the US to be closer to my family, but the health care system is just not affordable and not all jobs come with health care.
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| Posted 9/18/08 6:41 AM |
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BabyAvocado
Happy New Year
Member since 5/05 17334 total posts
Name:
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
Posted by evnme
DH sent me this from the Associated Press:
updated 9:09 a.m. ET, Thurs., Nov. 1, 2007
WASHINGTON - John McCain clarified an element of his health care plan, saying that employers who provide their workers coverage still would get tax breaks.
The Republican presidential candidate said that has been the case since he first announced his proposal three weeks ago, and he apologized for any confusion.
At the time, aides indicated that to help pay for the sweeping reforms, McCain would end a provision in the tax code that allows employers to deduct the cost of health care from their taxable earnings.
If I am reading this right, it says the employERS are getting the tax break - not the employEES. Good for my employer. Am I still going to be taxed on my benefits?? Nothing says they have to pass that tax break on to me. I don't know though - is that what they do now?
I don't know... it just seems like common sense to me. His plan is to GIVE people $5k to go out and get their own healthcare?? That's it?
Sorry, but I can't swallow that without asking - yeah really? Where's the catch?
What's to stop me from spending that on crap or bills?
And that article is pretty old.
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| Posted 9/18/08 1:51 PM |
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KPtoys
I'm getting old
Member since 5/05 8688 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
Posted by BabyAvocado
Posted by evnme
DH sent me this from the Associated Press:
updated 9:09 a.m. ET, Thurs., Nov. 1, 2007
WASHINGTON - John McCain clarified an element of his health care plan, saying that employers who provide their workers coverage still would get tax breaks.
The Republican presidential candidate said that has been the case since he first announced his proposal three weeks ago, and he apologized for any confusion.
At the time, aides indicated that to help pay for the sweeping reforms, McCain would end a provision in the tax code that allows employers to deduct the cost of health care from their taxable earnings.
If I am reading this right, it says the employERS are getting the tax break - not the employEES. Good for my employer. Am I still going to be taxed on my benefits?? Nothing says they have to pass that tax break on to me. I don't know though - is that what they do now?
I don't know... it just seems like common sense to me. His plan is to GIVE people $5k to go out and get their own healthcare?? That's it?
Sorry, but I can't swallow that without asking - yeah really? Where's the catch?
What's to stop me from spending that on crap or bills?
And that article is pretty old.
I don't know if you are accurate. Right now we (a business owner) are allowed to deduct the amount we pay for our health insurance. At the end of what you quoted it says that McCain will END that for business owners I read that quote as if we, business owners, give our employees health insurance we get to deduct that but we don't get to deduct our own insurance.
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| Posted 9/18/08 2:03 PM |
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Lillykat
going along for the ride...
Member since 5/05 16253 total posts
Name:
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Sassyz75
you know what I think the cause of all the bs is? Insurance! If we got rid of them, as the middle man, we'd get rid of a lot of our problems.
malpractice premiums are OUT OF CONTROL b/c of the liability in law suits. doctors stop practicing b/c they can't afford the PREMIUMS. OBGYN's and pediatricians are hardest hit with these.
we need to STOP frivolous litigation and CAP recoveries in all but the most egregious (and criminal) of negligence cases.
it's a vicious cycle. docs trying to see more patients b/c ins plans pay them for QUANTITY, and their quality suffers as the time spent with each patient is compromised. this ADDS to the incidence of malpractice litigation, which raises premiums, which causes docs to charge more for services so they can pay their rent, office staff, student loans, and malpractice insurance.
being a doctor is not the cush life it once was.
it's an awful situation any way you slice it.
Before DD I worked in Med mal insurance - and have family who work in this area as well so I'm pretty familiar with a lot of aspects of it. The sad part is that I actually don't think I want to see caps - The scary part is that I had only a few what I would call frivolous cases or claims. Unfortunately I had MANY scary cases. I think part of the problem is that the quality of drs is decreasing. As drs are forced to take less and less in - fewer people who would probably make better drs are steering away from the field. We are getting more and more foreign trained drs whose education in many cases is not up to the standards of our US schools.
Then you have drs not getting enough money in so they are crowding in their patients, NOT taking the time to get accurate medical histories or listening to their patients so they end up with holes that mean they miss critical diagnoses. B.c of the increase in patients, many drs are passing treatment on to NP or PAs who are not being monitored correctly and are missing diagnoses b.c they are not used to seeing things like acute bacterial endocardiditis but they think it is the flu. Also since they are seeing more patients it is harder for them to follow up with patients to make sure that when they recommend you see a specialist that patient actually SEES the specialists.
Drs are human an even the best can make a mistake - but with the quality of drs decreasing - many are making stupid errors, which in turn have earth shattering consequences.
The problem with the caps - is that you have patients who are left with 1-4 young children at home who now might not be able to work again, or who might now need permanent 24 hour nursing care or worst yet who died leaving behind a family and they were the primary care provider. Those cases often need structured settlements. You do not want to see some of the cases that I dealt with - they are just heartbreakingly sad.
Unfortunately the premiums ARE high - but they are often high b.c that dr has had multiple high paying suits. In most cases premiums are raised and drs are stopping to say deliver babies b.c they have had several claims or suits which have resulted in dead or brain damaged babies which need life long care. How about an OB who has several dead mothers due to "malpractice". Unfortunately fields like pediatrics and OB DO have higher premiums b.c they are dealing with children and when they screw up the consequences can often mean brain damage or physical damage and then you have a child who needs permanent care or will have a life long debilitating injury of some sort.
In some ways I wish there were maybe better regulations on the drs so that we could get rid of those drs who are sloppy or just plan poor physicians. There are some drs out there who fell that the bad drs are the ones pulling down the system.
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| Posted 9/18/08 4:13 PM |
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Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
Name:
Susan
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
Lillykat, you are so right.
My brother is a victim of med mal and we hope that he will get awarded a settlement that is enough to take care of him for the rest of his life. He can never live alone again.
I agree that doctors have to see too many people to be good doctors. Not all of them, but some.
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| Posted 9/18/08 5:16 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
Posted by Lillykat
.
I agree with your point about quality (as I think I addressed). I have basically worked in the medical legal field my entire adult life.
I agree that injured parties should be taken care of. I agree with "liability" but the damages issue is where we have a huge gaping wound.
there ARE people being awarded monies in amounts that far outweigh what the actual money damages is.
like I said, it is a vicious cycle if there ever was one.
ETA: I worked in an office conducting medical examinations for people involved in medical litigation. It was our charge to determine the extent of injuries and report back our findings.
I cannot tell you how more often than not, people suing for MILLIONS of dollars had very little, if any, residual problems from their injuries.
in the rare case when we did have someone with legitimate residual difficulty due to the injury (requiring long term or life long care) we always advised those involved to pay up. settle for damages and make sure people are well taken care of.
there are ways to determine things like lost wages, future wages and such. juries are awarding damages based on emotion, not on numbers. it has to end.
and when you have a guy like JG Wentworth offering to pay your structured settlement up front ( a disaster if you are not working b/c of an injury IMO) what happens then??
Message edited 9/18/2008 5:36:56 PM.
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| Posted 9/18/08 5:28 PM |
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EmmaNick
*
Member since 12/06 16001 total posts
Name:
*
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
Posted by BabyAvocado
I don't know... it just seems like common sense to me. His plan is to GIVE people $5k to go out and get their own healthcare?? That's it?
Sorry, but I can't swallow that without asking - yeah really? Where's the catch?
What's to stop me from spending that on crap or bills?
And that article is pretty old.
But $5K is not NEARLY enough money to pay premiums for family coverage and $2,500 is not nearly enough money to pay premiums for an individual. GROUP coverage at my job for an individual is around $400 a month. Thats obviously with a group discount. I'm sure it's MUCH more than that if I were to go out and purchase it on my own.
Thanks for posting OP. My son's doctor mentioned something about it the other day and I didn't know specifics.
Horrible.
Message edited 9/18/2008 11:00:07 PM.
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| Posted 9/18/08 10:59 PM |
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dandr10199
Grace is growing up too fast!
Member since 10/05 11561 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: John McCain's health care plan...
Posted by wannabemom
I won't comment on either candidates 'plan'... but I will voice my opinion on some catch saying people use in healthcare debates that always make me
Socialized medicine is horrible and all good Dr's will disappear and our quality of healthcare will drop tremendously.
Complete panic statement and exageration. Lets for a moment disucss REAL american healthcare, not theoretical care. Our current system (with HMOs and tons of litigation) has caused many specialties to have problems recruiting new phycisians.
GP's, who once were the authorities on everything and the first go-to guy for a patient have been reduced in quality for years. It's common knowledge that GP residents are often the ones who weren't accepted in other residency programs... this is becuase the HMO's have reduced this specialty to giving out referrals for the most part, and are cheating them of decent pay.
OBs are disappearing FAST becuase of unrumountable malpractice insurance.
So now, it's getting hard for people (especially outside of metro areas like ours) to find decent GPs and OBs.
This wonderful theory that we can go to any world famous physician we want for our unusual surgery is mythology. most people have huge restrictions on what in-network Dr. they can go to... and if they even have the option to go out of network, they will be paying huge co-payments that they likely can't afford for something as serious as a surgical procedure. If you're WEALTHY, sure, sky's the limit... alas, many of us are NOT that wealthy.
Now onto 'socialized medicine is horrible care relative to our american system'. well, there was a very good PBS documentary about socialized medicine throughout the world, and frankly, most of the horror stories iterated in these arguments (waiting 6 mo for life-saving surgery, having poor quality Dr's, or inadequate access) was BLOWN OUT OF THE WATER. those are the exceptions, not the norms. I wish I could recall the PBS documentary... I'm fairly sure it was a frontline investigation.
I am ONLY commenting on what I have SEEN in the waiting rooms at Columbia Presbyterian and what I have been told by those folks in the waiting room. I have a RARE congenital heart defect. I have a PPO (I CAN go out of network). I am NOT wealthy. YET, I would have gone into debt to pick the surgeon I had. He is world renown and obviously people come from all over the world (INCLUDING countries with socialized heath care) to have him crack open their sternum, stop their heart, oput them on bypass, operate on their heart and stitch them up again. Some congenital heart defect patients do this 3, 4, even 5 times or get a transplant.
I was basing my OPINION on what I have been TOLD by others in my cardiologist's waiting room. Not something that I pulled out of my arse.
Yeah, if you get a runny nose or a sore throat, see whatever run of the mill doctor you want to. When you have congenital heart defect or your child does and you or your child needs to have MAJOR evasive open heart surgery...then let compare apples to apples.
Do you know what is is like to have to research a surgeon for a MAJOR surgery?? for you or your child? If that surgery was risky wouldn't you want a surgeon that was top of his class?
Oh and BTW...my surgeon takes rare cases ONLY and does free surgeries for children and adults who cannot afford his services and have no insurance.
I have a lot of fears about socialized health care that ARE NOT unfounded. There are 25 doctors in the WHOLE WORLD who even treat people with what I have. There are 10...yes ten surgeons in the world who will operate on someone like me. Seven of them are in the USA. So yeah, does that mean that I want one of the TOP 10 cardiothorasic surgeons to open me up, hell yeah. My life is on the line.
WHY did I meet a mother from the UK in the waiting room of my surgeon's office and she told me what happened to her son regarding waiting for life saving heart surgery? Or the woman from France who came to Columbia b/c NO DOCTOR in her country could figure out how to operate on her (b/c her heart condition was rare)?
Sorry to come off strong here, but I feel the way I do based on FACTS of what others have told me who live in these countries. I am not ignorant, nor am I fear mongering. I am just stating the TRUTH as it has been told to me by a mom and a woman who had to fly to NY to see my surgeon b/c they could not get the care they needed in their own country.
Message edited 9/18/2008 11:41:55 PM.
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| Posted 9/18/08 11:39 PM |
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