Re: John McCain's health care plan...

Posted by dandr10199

Posted by wannabemom

I won't comment on either candidates 'plan'... but I will voice my opinion on some catch saying people use in healthcare debates that always make me

Socialized medicine is horrible and all good Dr's will disappear and our quality of healthcare will drop tremendously.

Complete panic statement and exageration. Lets for a moment disucss REAL american healthcare, not theoretical care. Our current system (with HMOs and tons of litigation) has caused many specialties to have problems recruiting new phycisians.
GP's, who once were the authorities on everything and the first go-to guy for a patient have been reduced in quality for years. It's common knowledge that GP residents are often the ones who weren't accepted in other residency programs... this is becuase the HMO's have reduced this specialty to giving out referrals for the most part, and are cheating them of decent pay.
OBs are disappearing FAST becuase of unrumountable malpractice insurance.

So now, it's getting hard for people (especially outside of metro areas like ours) to find decent GPs and OBs.

This wonderful theory that we can go to any world famous physician we want for our unusual surgery is mythology. most people have huge restrictions on what in-network Dr. they can go to... and if they even have the option to go out of network, they will be paying huge co-payments that they likely can't afford for something as serious as a surgical procedure. If you're WEALTHY, sure, sky's the limit... alas, many of us are NOT that wealthy.

Now onto 'socialized medicine is horrible care relative to our american system'. well, there was a very good PBS documentary about socialized medicine throughout the world, and frankly, most of the horror stories iterated in these arguments (waiting 6 mo for life-saving surgery, having poor quality Dr's, or inadequate access) was BLOWN OUT OF THE WATER. those are the exceptions, not the norms. I wish I could recall the PBS documentary... I'm fairly sure it was a frontline investigation.

I am ONLY commenting on what I have SEEN in the waiting rooms at Columbia Presbyterian and what I have been told by those folks in the waiting room. I have a RARE congenital heart defect. I have a PPO (I CAN go out of network). I am NOT wealthy. YET, I would have gone into debt to pick the surgeon I had. He is world renown and obviously people come from all over the world (INCLUDING countries with socialized heath care) to have him crack open their sternum, stop their heart, oput them on bypass, operate on their heart and stitch them up again. Some congenital heart defect patients do this 3, 4, even 5 times or get a transplant.

I was basing my OPINION on what I have been TOLD by others in my cardiologist's waiting room. Not something that I pulled out of my arse.

Yeah, if you get a runny nose or a sore throat, see whatever run of the mill doctor you want to. When you have congenital heart defect or your child does and you or your child needs to have MAJOR evasive open heart surgery...then let compare apples to apples.

Do you know what is is like to have to research a surgeon for a MAJOR surgery?? for you or your child? If that surgery was risky wouldn't you want a surgeon that was top of his class?

Oh and BTW...my surgeon takes rare cases ONLY and does free surgeries for children and adults who cannot afford his services and have no insurance.

I have a lot of fears about socialized health care that ARE NOT unfounded. There are 25 doctors in the WHOLE WORLD who even treat people with what I have. There are 10...yes ten surgeons in the world who will operate on someone like me. Seven of them are in the USA. So yeah, does that mean that I want one of the TOP 10 cardiothorasic surgeons to open me up, hell yeah. My life is on the line.

WHY did I meet a mother from the UK in the waiting room of my surgeon's office and she told me what happened to her son regarding waiting for life saving heart surgery? Or the woman from France who came to Columbia b/c NO DOCTOR in her country could figure out how to operate on her (b/c her heart condition was rare)?

Sorry to come off strong here, but I feel the way I do based on FACTS of what others have told me who live in these countries. I am not ignorant, nor am I fear mongering. I am just stating the TRUTH as it has been told to me by a mom and a woman who had to fly to NY to see my surgeon b/c they could not get the care they needed in their own country.

Re: John McCain's health care plan...

Posted by klingklang77

Posted by dandr10199
ITA. This is INSANE. Both health care plans (McCain and Obama) SUCK BALLS IMHO. We are going to loose really wonderful brilliant doctors. People will not be able to choose the best doctors and GOD forbid you have a pre-exisiting condition. NYS covers pre-existing conditions, other states do not. ARRRGGGHHHH...So one wants to tax us up the yaya and give us less options... and the other wants to run health care like a communist country (by giving EVERYONE health care and socializing it) this will drive out the good doctors so that if I need another surgery a surgeon who does not know his azz from his elbow will be slicing me open. wonderful.

THIS SUCKS BIG TIME!!! Can't they figure out a way to do this with out it being azz backwards? people paying taxes? or me have to be put on a four year wait list for a heart surgery with a decent surgeon? This will happen if health care is socialized. MANY folks saw my surgeon at Columbia from the UK, France, Italy basically all over Europe where health care is socialized. The waiting room in his office for a consult was like the United Nations. I am NOT kidding. Families were told that their children with MAJOR heart defects were put on a four year wait list for surgery. If they wanted faster care they were told to go to the US and pay privately, so many did. I have met them in the waiting room of my surgeon's and cardiologist's offices.

ATTN McCain & Obama: If it does not work in Europe, it will not work here!!!! YOU Dumb azzes: ARRRGGGHHHH

Vent over.

I don't think you can say that until you live in a country with socialised medicine.

I live in a country with socialised medicine with the option of getting private in addition. I get health care for doctors for free and I pay $18 a week extra for full dental and private hospital. If I were unemployed I would still have this. People are not waiting years to get operations. Why can't the US get a system like this?

I DO NOT LIVE IN A COMMUNIST COUNTRY. Socialised medicine does not equal communism. Don't knock it until you've tried it.

Re: John McCain's health care plan...

I don't really want to get involved in any kind of debate on this, nor do I want to preach that the NHS is a perfect system, because it is far from perfect. I myself have had nothing but great experiences with the NHS, including having a fantastic experience with giving birth, and both myself and my husband being hospitalised. But thats besides the point.

I, like Lisa fear that people think that countries with socialised medicine are maybe not as advanced as the USA, or maybe they are (sort of) seen as Ye Olde Worlde...

Of course there are waits, but I can assure you that people are not being allowed to die on a regular basis. Please do not think that this is happening...

Re: John McCain's health care plan...

I am sorry if I came on strong in this post. This topic is a hot button for me for obvious reasons.

I was basing my opinions on what I have heard from others in different countries with a similar heart defect to my own. I admit that an opinion based on what people have told you (what you have heard) rather than finding out the facts of a situation is ignorant. Sorry that I made some ignorant statements.

Sorry I did not take multiple hours out to research the facts of socialized medicine and back up my feelings with facts. Maybe socialized medicine would work in the US.... Who knows? I cannot have this debate anymore.

Sorry if I offended anyone. I just have a very aggressive and strong opinion about this based on my life experiences. My experience is what is factual TO ME and real to me.

I am willing to concede and say that I am sure socialized medicine works. I am sure socialized medicine it is great for people who loose their jobs, so they do not loose their insurance.

Also, I wonder how we would pay for it in this country after we bail out all the people who took on higher mortgages than they can afford, banks who made these loans, the Iraq war, and tons of other things that I already see 40% of my income go toward. Maybe we should increase taxes and I will pay 65 or 75% of my income to the government so the bill for all of this can be paid? I don't know I don't have all the answers on how to fix everything that is wrong with health care, Iraq, taxes, bailouts, etc.

Again sorry if I wear my illness on my sleeve and that offends anyone. I just wanted to bring attention to the fact that there are a small percentage of people BORN WITH heart defects which cause heart disease in those people.
I won't mention my illnesses anymore as I am sure most of you are sick of me standing on my soap box about it. I am really going to try to stay away from political threads as well. Sometimes being the sole voice opposing the majority on here is exhausting and I am tired.

Message edited 9/19/2008 11:33:57 AM.

Re: John McCain's health care plan...

Posted by dandr10199

I am sorry if I came on strong in this post. This topic is a hot button for me for obvious reasons.

I was basing my opinions on what I have heard from others in different countries with a similar heart defect to my own. I admit that an opinion based on what people have told you (what you have heard) rather than finding out the facts of a situation is ignorant. Sorry that I made some ignorant statements.

Sorry I did not take multiple hours out to research the facts of socialized medicine and back up my feelings with facts. Maybe socialized medicine would work in the US.... Who knows? I cannot have this debate anymore.

Sorry if I offended anyone. I just have a very aggressive and strong opinion about this based on my life experiences. My experience is what is factual TO ME and real to me.

I am willing to concede and say that I am sure socialized medicine works in the everyday day to day, birthing of babies, sniffles, sore throats and mundane medical stuff like that. The UK has one of the best maternity leave policies I have ever heard of and we should have maternity leave in the US like that. I am sure socialized medicine it is great for people who loose their jobs, so they do not loose their insurance. Since I was 6 months old nothing was really "mundane" about my health care, so please understand I am viewing this from a unique perspective.

Also, I wonder how we would pay for it in this country after we bail out all the people who took on higher mortgages than they can afford, banks who made these loans, the Iraq war, and tons of other things that I already see 40% of my income go toward. Maybe we should increase taxes and I will pay 65 or 75% of my income to the government so the bill for all of this can be paid? I don't know I don't have all the answers on how to fix everything that is wrong with health care, Iraq, taxes, bailouts, etc.

Again sorry if I wear my illness on my sleeve and that offends anyone. I just wanted to bring attention to the fact that there are a small percentage of people BORN WITH heart defects which cause heart disease in those people.
I won't mention my illnesses anymore as I am sure most of you are sick of me standing on my soap box about it. I am really going to try to stay away from political threads as well. Sometimes being the sole voice opposing the majority on here is exhausting and I am tired.

Re: John McCain's health care plan...

Posted by racheeeee

Posted by dandr10199

I am sorry if I came on strong in this post. This topic is a hot button for me for obvious reasons.

I was basing my opinions on what I have heard from others in different countries with a similar heart defect to my own. I admit that an opinion based on what people have told you (what you have heard) rather than finding out the facts of a situation is ignorant. Sorry that I made some ignorant statements.

Sorry I did not take multiple hours out to research the facts of socialized medicine and back up my feelings with facts. Maybe socialized medicine would work in the US.... Who knows? I cannot have this debate anymore.

Sorry if I offended anyone. I just have a very aggressive and strong opinion about this based on my life experiences. My experience is what is factual TO ME and real to me.

I am willing to concede and say that I am sure socialized medicine works in the everyday day to day, birthing of babies, sniffles, sore throats and mundane medical stuff like that. The UK has one of the best maternity leave policies I have ever heard of and we should have maternity leave in the US like that. I am sure socialized medicine it is great for people who loose their jobs, so they do not loose their insurance. Since I was 6 months old nothing was really "mundane" about my health care, so please understand I am viewing this from a unique perspective.

Also, I wonder how we would pay for it in this country after we bail out all the people who took on higher mortgages than they can afford, banks who made these loans, the Iraq war, and tons of other things that I already see 40% of my income go toward. Maybe we should increase taxes and I will pay 65 or 75% of my income to the government so the bill for all of this can be paid? I don't know I don't have all the answers on how to fix everything that is wrong with health care, Iraq, taxes, bailouts, etc.

Again sorry if I wear my illness on my sleeve and that offends anyone. I just wanted to bring attention to the fact that there are a small percentage of people BORN WITH heart defects which cause heart disease in those people.
I won't mention my illnesses anymore as I am sure most of you are sick of me standing on my soap box about it. I am really going to try to stay away from political threads as well. Sometimes being the sole voice opposing the majority on here is exhausting and I am tired.

The National Health Service has NOTHING to do with maternity leave, so that has nothing to do with this topic at all, and the statement about socialized medicine being fine for birthing babies and sniffles, is completely patronizing and uninformed. There are many many many many people living in countries with socialized medicine who face challenges with their health just like you do. That statement has really annoyed me, sorry to be a beeyotch, but that is the height of ignorance. Really.

Message edited 9/19/2008 11:34:16 AM.

Re: John McCain's health care plan...

Posted by wannabemom

Posted by dandr10199

Posted by wannabemom

I won't comment on either candidates 'plan'... but I will voice my opinion on some catch saying people use in healthcare debates that always make me

Socialized medicine is horrible and all good Dr's will disappear and our quality of healthcare will drop tremendously.

Complete panic statement and exageration. Lets for a moment disucss REAL american healthcare, not theoretical care. Our current system (with HMOs and tons of litigation) has caused many specialties to have problems recruiting new phycisians.
GP's, who once were the authorities on everything and the first go-to guy for a patient have been reduced in quality for years. It's common knowledge that GP residents are often the ones who weren't accepted in other residency programs... this is becuase the HMO's have reduced this specialty to giving out referrals for the most part, and are cheating them of decent pay.
OBs are disappearing FAST becuase of unrumountable malpractice insurance.

So now, it's getting hard for people (especially outside of metro areas like ours) to find decent GPs and OBs.

This wonderful theory that we can go to any world famous physician we want for our unusual surgery is mythology. most people have huge restrictions on what in-network Dr. they can go to... and if they even have the option to go out of network, they will be paying huge co-payments that they likely can't afford for something as serious as a surgical procedure. If you're WEALTHY, sure, sky's the limit... alas, many of us are NOT that wealthy.

Now onto 'socialized medicine is horrible care relative to our american system'. well, there was a very good PBS documentary about socialized medicine throughout the world, and frankly, most of the horror stories iterated in these arguments (waiting 6 mo for life-saving surgery, having poor quality Dr's, or inadequate access) was BLOWN OUT OF THE WATER. those are the exceptions, not the norms. I wish I could recall the PBS documentary... I'm fairly sure it was a frontline investigation.

I am ONLY commenting on what I have SEEN in the waiting rooms at Columbia Presbyterian and what I have been told by those folks in the waiting room. I have a RARE congenital heart defect. I have a PPO (I CAN go out of network). I am NOT wealthy. YET, I would have gone into debt to pick the surgeon I had. He is world renown and obviously people come from all over the world (INCLUDING countries with socialized heath care) to have him crack open their sternum, stop their heart, oput them on bypass, operate on their heart and stitch them up again. Some congenital heart defect patients do this 3, 4, even 5 times or get a transplant.

I was basing my OPINION on what I have been TOLD by others in my cardiologist's waiting room. Not something that I pulled out of my arse.

Yeah, if you get a runny nose or a sore throat, see whatever run of the mill doctor you want to. When you have congenital heart defect or your child does and you or your child needs to have MAJOR evasive open heart surgery...then let compare apples to apples.

Do you know what is is like to have to research a surgeon for a MAJOR surgery?? for you or your child? If that surgery was risky wouldn't you want a surgeon that was top of his class?

Oh and BTW...my surgeon takes rare cases ONLY and does free surgeries for children and adults who cannot afford his services and have no insurance.

I have a lot of fears about socialized health care that ARE NOT unfounded. There are 25 doctors in the WHOLE WORLD who even treat people with what I have. There are 10...yes ten surgeons in the world who will operate on someone like me. Seven of them are in the USA. So yeah, does that mean that I want one of the TOP 10 cardiothorasic surgeons to open me up, hell yeah. My life is on the line.

WHY did I meet a mother from the UK in the waiting room of my surgeon's office and she told me what happened to her son regarding waiting for life saving heart surgery? Or the woman from France who came to Columbia b/c NO DOCTOR in her country could figure out how to operate on her (b/c her heart condition was rare)?

Sorry to come off strong here, but I feel the way I do based on FACTS of what others have told me who live in these countries. I am not ignorant, nor am I fear mongering. I am just stating the TRUTH as it has been told to me by a mom and a woman who had to fly to NY to see my surgeon b/c they could not get the care they needed in their own country.

ok, not sure why you think I singled you out, or called you ignorant, a fear mongerer.... or that your opinion was pulled out of your arse.

I appreciate your situation, and must just politely state that you're not the only person on this thread who has exotic health problems. My family has also gone into significant debt to make sure I didn't die.... so don't presume that just becuase I don't display all of my life cards that I'm speaking from lack of experience. I just don't generally wear it on my sleeve. I honestly think my opinion should be respected w/o having to divulge this information.

To boot, I have family members in the EU with equally challenging diseases, and they have all received perfectly appropriate care, dispite the challenges with their conditions.

In the end, IMO it doesn't take the US healthcare system to create the opportunity for good care. It's rather egocentric to think that only our great nation could produce amazing physicians with top notch quality care. It's simply not true. I have a friend who is a top neurosurgeon..... in germany. if I needed neurosurgery, I would gladly put myself in her hands over anyone elses....