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MrsERod
Praying for Everyone.
Member since 5/05 26170 total posts
Name:
MrsERod™®
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Re: Limo crash trial
bottom line is
he drank, and then proceeded to get behind the wheel. 2 innocent people were killed because of his careless disregard for human life. to me, that IS murder. and if it were my child or family member, God forbid, I'd pushing for nothing LESS than Murder in the first degree. and if the law needed to be changed to make it as clear as day - then I'd spend every waking moment of my life, lobbying for that legislation to be made.
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Posted 9/12/06 6:15 PM  |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Limo crash trial
Posted by MrsERod
bottom line is
he drank, and then proceeded to get behind the wheel. 2 innocent people were killed because of his careless disregard for human life. to me, that IS murder. and if it were my child or family member, God forbid, I'd pushing for nothing LESS than Murder in the first degree. and if the law needed to be changed to make it as clear as day - then I'd spend every waking moment of my life, lobbying for that legislation to be made.
but the bottom line is
what he did is VEHICLUAR MANSLAUGHTER by law
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:17 PM |
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dpli
Daylight savings :)
Member since 5/05 13973 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Limo crash trial
I think you have to look at how the law defines it. I think he should be charged with murder only if they can prove it. I would rather see him get convicted of manslaughter with serious jail time than see the case have a mistrial.
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:18 PM |
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suvenR
designer mutt
Member since 5/05 4239 total posts
Name:
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Re: Limo crash trial
Posted by Redhead
so should all the people who are caught via check points for DD
they should also be charged with murder?
again....there was NO INTENT on his part to kill somene that night
regardless
IMO- it doesn't matter whether or not he intended to kill someone. His actions caused the deaths of 2 innocent people.
Once someone is dead because of a drunk driver, the driver should be charged with murder.
But, no, if no one is hurt, there obviously wouldn't be a murder charge. But, IMO, there should be a prison sentence. Not jail- PRISON.
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:19 PM |
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MrsERod
Praying for Everyone.
Member since 5/05 26170 total posts
Name:
MrsERod™®
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Re: Limo crash trial
Posted by Redhead
Posted by MrsERod
bottom line is
he drank, and then proceeded to get behind the wheel. 2 innocent people were killed because of his careless disregard for human life. to me, that IS murder. and if it were my child or family member, God forbid, I'd pushing for nothing LESS than Murder in the first degree. and if the law needed to be changed to make it as clear as day - then I'd spend every waking moment of my life, lobbying for that legislation to be made.
but the bottom line is
what he did is VEHICLUAR MANSLAUGHTER by law
then the law needs to be changed IMO - he MURDERED those 2 people by driving drunk. I don't see it as anything else but Murder.
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:20 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Limo crash trial
Posted by dpli
I think you have to look at how the law defines it. I think he should be charged with murder only if they can prove it. I would rather see him get convicted of manslaughter with serious jail time than see the case have a mistrial.
very GOOD point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
because despite the outrage they jury will be told they have to decide based on the actual DEF of murder NOT what they think in their hearts it should be
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:20 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Limo crash trial
Posted by MrsERod
Posted by Redhead
Posted by MrsERod
bottom line is
he drank, and then proceeded to get behind the wheel. 2 innocent people were killed because of his careless disregard for human life. to me, that IS murder. and if it were my child or family member, God forbid, I'd pushing for nothing LESS than Murder in the first degree. and if the law needed to be changed to make it as clear as day - then I'd spend every waking moment of my life, lobbying for that legislation to be made.
but the bottom line is
what he did is VEHICLUAR MANSLAUGHTER by law
then the law needs to be changed IMO - he MURDERED those 2 people by driving drunk. I don't see it as anything else but Murder.
maybe
but i guess i just wouldn't care what the hell it is called
as long as the end result is that he is in jail for a long time
isn't that the real goal here?
or is it just semantics?
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:22 PM |
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MrsERod
Praying for Everyone.
Member since 5/05 26170 total posts
Name:
MrsERod™®
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Re: Limo crash trial
Posted by Redhead
as long as the end result is that he is in jail for a long time
agreed.
but unfortunately, the sentence for VMS isn't long enough
especially since
1. he's a repeat offender
2. he's still young enough to serve the entire sentence and STILL live a long life.
can't say the same for the limo driver, and certainly not for the little girl!
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:24 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Limo crash trial
15 years is kinda long
asn since it is a repeat offense maybe he will get longer
i dunno
i just think this DA is going to friggin grand stand and Fluck up the whole trial...
Message edited 9/12/2006 6:27:13 PM.
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:26 PM |
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MrsS2005
Mom of 3
Member since 11/05 13118 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: Limo crash trial
Posted by MrsERod
bottom line is
he drank, and then proceeded to get behind the wheel. 2 innocent people were killed because of his careless disregard for human life. to me, that IS murder. and if it were my child or family member, God forbid, I'd pushing for nothing LESS than Murder in the first degree. and if the law needed to be changed to make it as clear as day - then I'd spend every waking moment of my life, lobbying for that legislation to be made.
He'd never be convicted of first degree murder. There's no premeditation and no special circumstances.
One of the defendant's strongest defenses to a charge of second degree murder is that he was so drunk, he had diminished capacity and couldn't form the "malice aforethought" or intent required of murder.
Based on the recent appellate decisions, merely showing that the defendant had a BAC equal to three times the allowable limit and drove the wrong way down the street is not enough to prove second degree murder. The prosecutors must show that he had a depraved state of mind. His actions are not enough-he must have a "guilty mind."
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:28 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Limo crash trial
Posted by suvenR
Posted by Redhead
so should all the people who are caught via check points for DD
they should also be charged with murder?
again....there was NO INTENT on his part to kill somene that night
regardless
IMO- it doesn't matter whether or not he intended to kill someone. His actions caused the deaths of 2 innocent people.
.
But sue...
it does matter by LAW...
THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:28 PM |
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Beth
The Key to your new home....
Member since 2/06 24849 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Limo crash trial
Posted by Redhead
Posted by dpli
I think you have to look at how the law defines it. I think he should be charged with murder only if they can prove it. I would rather see him get convicted of manslaughter with serious jail time than see the case have a mistrial.
very GOOD point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
because despite the outrage they jury will be told they have to decide based on the actual DEF of murder NOT what they think in their hearts it should be
this was my point- but you said it so much better! I just hope they include the lesser charge- they might be leaving the jury in a bad situation
he should go to jail for a long time - regardless of the actual charge- but the charge needs to fit the crime- or he might not get convicted
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:28 PM |
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MrsERod
Praying for Everyone.
Member since 5/05 26170 total posts
Name:
MrsERod™®
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Re: Limo crash trial
Posted by MrsS2005
Posted by MrsERod
bottom line is
he drank, and then proceeded to get behind the wheel. 2 innocent people were killed because of his careless disregard for human life. to me, that IS murder. and if it were my child or family member, God forbid, I'd pushing for nothing LESS than Murder in the first degree. and if the law needed to be changed to make it as clear as day - then I'd spend every waking moment of my life, lobbying for that legislation to be made.
He'd never be convicted of first degree murder. There's no premeditation and no special circumstances.
One of the defendant's strongest defenses to a charge of second degree murder is that he was so drunk, he had diminished capacity and couldn't form the "malice aforethought" or intent required of murder.
Based on the recent appellate decisions, merely showing that the defendant had a BAC equal to three times the allowable limit and drove the wrong way down the street is not enough to prove second degree murder. The prosecutors must show that he had a depraved state of mind. His actions are not enough-he must have a "guilty mind."
this is exactly why i feel the law should be changed.
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:30 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Limo crash trial
have any of you ever read Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment.
it's a fascinating look at crime, intent, and punishment (external as well as internal)
to kill someone...to take a life, it's haunting. whether he spends 15 years or 25 years in jail or life in jail, the memory and the realization of what he's done will never leave him. not saying that we as a society should be fine with his self-flagellation, but it's just something to think about. He will pay for this crime for the rest of his life, regardless of where he spends it.
it's a true tragedy on all sides. I feel for the families of the victims. it's a horrible and senseless thing to have happen.
Message edited 9/12/2006 6:32:54 PM.
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:30 PM |
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suvenR
designer mutt
Member since 5/05 4239 total posts
Name:
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Re: Limo crash trial
Posted by Redhead
But sue...
it does matter by LAW...
THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE
Laws change. So should this one.
See, this is why I like corporate law.
It doesn't matter if you INTEND to harass someone- it's the OUTCOME that determines how bad the action was.
Too bad we can't apply the same theory when someone ends up dead.
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:31 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Limo crash trial
if people want to really make a difference
then fight for more severe punishments
trying to turn it into something it clearly isn't...is not only fruitless, it is a waste of tax payers money and it will be at the expense of the FAMILY...
This DA imo is being a selfish jerk
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:31 PM |
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suvenR
designer mutt
Member since 5/05 4239 total posts
Name:
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Re: Limo crash trial
Posted by Redhead
trying to turn it into something it clearly isn't...is not only fruitless, it is a waste of tax payers money and it will be at the expense of the FAMILY...
the outcome of a lawsuit can impact the law...
are you saying that you're worried that this isn't the lawsuit that should be used to impact the law, or just that verdicts of lawsuits won't change the law?
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:33 PM |
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Beth
The Key to your new home....
Member since 2/06 24849 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Limo crash trial
this law did change recently - drunk drivers used to get off with 1 year in jail max
but in the same breath- we as a society look at alcholism as a deaise- and I think that has an affect on the laws as well
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:33 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Limo crash trial
Posted by suvenR
Posted by Redhead
But sue...
it does matter by LAW...
THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE
Laws change. So should this one.
See, this is why I like corporate law.
It doesn't matter if you INTEND to harass someone- it's the OUTCOME that determines how bad the action was.
Too bad we can't apply the same theory when someone ends up dead.
sue...
sorry i just am not getting your comparisons at all
maybe the laws should change..
but it hasn't..
we have VMS....that is what he did, that is what the law states
there is a distiction in the eyes of the law between manslaughter and murder
and when the law does change...then so be it
but for now...it hasn't
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:34 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Limo crash trial
Posted by suvenR
Posted by Redhead
trying to turn it into something it clearly isn't...is not only fruitless, it is a waste of tax payers money and it will be at the expense of the FAMILY...
the outcome of a lawsuit can impact the law...
are you saying that you're worried that this isn't the lawsuit that should be used to impact the law, or just that verdicts of lawsuits won't change the law?
no
i am worried that because there is a VMS charge
the jury will have to say it isn't MURDER
because what he did THUS FAR...is NOT MURDER in the eyes of the law
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:35 PM |
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MrsS2005
Mom of 3
Member since 11/05 13118 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: Limo crash trial
Posted by Beth1210
Posted by Redhead
Posted by dpli
I think you have to look at how the law defines it. I think he should be charged with murder only if they can prove it. I would rather see him get convicted of manslaughter with serious jail time than see the case have a mistrial.
very GOOD point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
because despite the outrage they jury will be told they have to decide based on the actual DEF of murder NOT what they think in their hearts it should be
this was my point- but you said it so much better! I just hope they include the lesser charge- they might be leaving the jury in a bad situation
he should go to jail for a long time - regardless of the actual charge- but the charge needs to fit the crime- or he might not get convicted
I found this in an article:
If convicted of murder, Heidgen could be sentenced to 25 years to life in prison. Jurors also can opt to convict on second-degree manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide, which carry lesser sentences.
It would be irresponsible not to include the lesser charges. I'm pretty sure he'll be convicted of something, but probably not murder.
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:36 PM |
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MrsERod
Praying for Everyone.
Member since 5/05 26170 total posts
Name:
MrsERod™®
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Re: Limo crash trial
Posted by jf1975
have any of you ever read Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment.
it's a fascinating look at crime, intent, and punishment (external as well as internal)
to kill someone...to take a life, it's haunting. whether he spends 15 years or 25 years in jail or life in jail, the memory and the realization of what he's done will never leave him. not saying that we as a society should be fine with his self-flagellation, but it's just something to think about. He will pay for this crime for the rest of his life, regardless of where he spends it.
this is by no means intended to be directed AT you, or to offend you at all...
but....
F*** that - so he's "haunted" for the rest of his life. boo hoo hoo. he should have thought about that before he murdered 2 innocent people. at least he'll have a LIFE to live.
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:36 PM |
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suvenR
designer mutt
Member since 5/05 4239 total posts
Name:
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Re: Limo crash trial
Posted by Redhead
sorry i just am not getting your comparisons at all
In one arena, people are judged by the OUTCOME of their actions. In this arena (drunk drivers killing people), they are judged on what their INTENT was.
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:36 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Limo crash trial
Posted by MrsS2005
If convicted of murder, Heidgen could be sentenced to 25 years to life in prison. Jurors also can opt to convict on second-degree manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide, which carry lesser sentences.
It would be irresponsible not to include the lesser charges. I'm pretty sure he'll be convicted of something, but probably not murder.
thank God 
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:37 PM |
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MrsERod
Praying for Everyone.
Member since 5/05 26170 total posts
Name:
MrsERod™®
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Re: Limo crash trial
Posted by MrsS2005
I found this in an article:
If convicted of murder, Heidgen could be sentenced to 25 years to life in prison. Jurors also can opt to convict on second-degree manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide, which carry lesser sentences.
It would be irresponsible not to include the lesser charges. I'm pretty sure he'll be convicted of something, but probably not murder.
Excellent!!! let's hope the jury convicts him of murder!!!
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:38 PM |
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