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AtomicMom
LIF Adolescent
Member since 5/05 632 total posts
Name:
Denise
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
Posted by Lolita4Life
i strongly disagree with your breeder comment.
should people look into adopting first? abosutely.
but to say breeders shouldnt be is totally insane imo.
BACKYARD breeders shoudnt breed, PUPPYMILLS shouldnt breed....
but responsible breeders SHOULD. how else to keep a breed going? how else to better the lines and get most standard?
breeders arent the problem... its the idot people who buy them then abuse/neglect surrender them that is the problem in shelters today.
puppymills pump out a helluva lot more purebreds than breeders do.
adopting rather than buying doesnt make you a good pet owner.
being a good pet owner makes you a good pet owner
Couldn't have said it better!
The "mutts' in shelters are the result of irresponsible pet owners, puppy mills, and backyard breeders...elimnate them and your shelters would be empty....
A true dog breeder does not breed to make money, they breed to continue the integrity and genetic stability and health of the dogs we know and love today.
The problem is that originally, most dogs were bred for a PURPOSE...herding, hunting,protection, etc.
Today, most dogs are bred for companionship, with the exception of those people who continue breeding specific breeds for their intended purposes, such as bloodhounds, border collies, etc.etc....
With the increase of companion animals, comes a greater demand. This is where your puppy mills come into play. They are puppy factories....
If there were no TRUE breeders, dogs would start to change, and you wouldnt be able to adopt a "toy" poodle. Eventually, all dogs would revert to their wild ancestry and begin to look and act more like wolves....
So to say that any breeder is a bad breeder is totally ludicrous.
We have these people to thank for the domestic dogs we love and know today.
Eliminate pet stores and you eliminate puppy mills. Spay/neuter ever single non-showable dog, you eliminate the overcrowded shelters and pointless deaths by euthanasia...
I say keep these purebred breeders and get rid of the people who create the MUTTS. I love mutts, but they are the sad end result of poor pet ownership, ignorance, and greed.
SPAY/NEUTER your pets and DONT BUY FROM A PET STORE.
this will solve a lot of problems.
ETA: I am also a big advocate of breed rescue and I intend on adopting a pure breed dog. I have nothing against mutts and have had several in my past. I love all dogs and feel all dogs deserve good homes, but elimating breeders is not the solution....
Message edited 8/10/2006 11:05:14 AM.
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Posted 8/10/06 10:55 AM  |
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Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource |
MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
Posted by neesiepie
Eliminate pet stores and you eliminate puppy mills. Spay/neuter ever single non-showable dog, you eliminate the overcrowded shelters and pointless deaths by euthanasia...
I say keep these purebred breeders and get rid of these MUTTS. I love mutts, but they are the sad end result of poor pet ownership, ignorance, and greed.
SPAY/NEUTER your pets and DONT BUY FROM A PET STORE.
this will solve a lot of problems.l
There is nothing wrong with adopting a mutt.....I think it is a great thing to rescue ANY dog, but to purposely breed a mutt for greed and solely for the profit, that is what needs to go!
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| Posted 8/10/06 10:59 AM |
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AtomicMom
LIF Adolescent
Member since 5/05 632 total posts
Name:
Denise
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
I agree 100000% 
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| Posted 8/10/06 11:09 AM |
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casey31
Mommy of 3!
Member since 5/05 2967 total posts
Name:
Mommy to two boys and a girl
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
If there were no TRUE breeders, dogs would start to change, and you wouldnt be able to adopt a "toy" poodle. Eventually, all dogs would revert to their wild ancestry and begin to look and act more like wolves....
_____________________________
I don't really think that is true- that dogs would go back to being wolves.
I also don't think its a "bad thing" that someone would not be able to adopt a toy poodle.
I feel that it is a shame to breed purebreds until all dogs are adopted out of shelters. If we have a shortage of dogs, then let us breed them.
In the meantime, maybe if someone wasn't given the option of buying a purebred poodle from a breeder, puppymill or store, they might adopt a poodle mix from a shelter- that is one more life saved.
Even without the "lineage" guarantee that dog might be the best pet ever. Often mutts have less health conditions anyway.
Message edited 8/10/2006 11:22:41 AM.
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| Posted 8/10/06 11:19 AM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
without purebreds you'd never have mutts.
so hating on purebreds is silly imo
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| Posted 8/10/06 11:24 AM |
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casey31
Mommy of 3!
Member since 5/05 2967 total posts
Name:
Mommy to two boys and a girl
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
I don't hate purebreds- I just don't see the need to make more of them for any reason right now. I don't think any dog should be bred- even if it has a great lineage and can be a show dog. We are breeding these "special" dogs while we are putting mutts to sleep. It's just not fair. Why is a purebred poodle so much better that we should breed it and give away it's pups to loving homes when there are so many dogs in shelters? Those are loving homes that could have rescued a dog from a shelter. I feel that any person that breeds a dog is doing a disservice to the canine species. Although I agree that there are many people out there that are irresponsible owners and then the dogs end up in shelters. But, why contribute to the problem at all by making more dogs?
It's true, I agree with the above posters- dogs end up in shelters because of bad owners, bad breeders and bad puppymills. But why not try and have all these dogs adopted before we breed more?
Message edited 8/10/2006 11:46:29 AM.
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| Posted 8/10/06 11:32 AM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
ok we just have to agree to disagree.
i think you should be more concerned about puppymills and backyard breeders... as these are the TRUE problems, NOT responsible breeders.
pet shop, and ppl breeding mixed dogs on purpose. be more mad at hte ppl who BUY these mutts aka designer dogs rather then adopting the SAME EXACT thing from a shelter.
i personally have a LOVE of a purebred dog.
i would love to eventually learn to show and maybe one day breed.
not for nothing, but dogs from reputable breeders tend to NOT be the dogs in shelters... as good breeders screen and have long waiting lists with people who are educated in the breed and do research.
its ppl who buy on impulse that end up tossing their dogs in shelters.
obviously, since you dont love purebreds or showing or bettering lines you wont see my point and we will never agree.
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| Posted 8/10/06 11:52 AM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
Name:
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
Posted by MsMBV
Posted by shamrock12472
Just a FYI...About 25% of dogs in shelters are purebreds. So if you are looking for a particular breed for any reason, they are out there to be adopted. Also, every breed has a rescue organization. A good place to start is the American Kennel Club ...www.akc.com. They have links to the rescues. Adopting can be a much longer process but well worth the time and effort.
Most of us that are defending responsible breeders will also, if you search our old posts, direct people to breed-specific rescue. Also, many breed-specific rescues are no-kill. I myself always look to adopt first.
Pyxie is from a breeder. I made a conscious effort, after looking quite vigorously at the rescue orgs, to go with a breeder. WHY? Because Chinese Cresteds have a wealth of health issues. None of the available dogs had any lineage information. Although certain health tests were performed, they only show that the conditions were not present at that time. When you use a breeder, they perform the genetic testing you will know the possibility of a problem presenting itself later.
My post was more for those people who are reading it or lurking and really aren't on here all that much. It really was just meant to be educational; not directed at any point of view.
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| Posted 8/10/06 11:56 AM |
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casey31
Mommy of 3!
Member since 5/05 2967 total posts
Name:
Mommy to two boys and a girl
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
Posted by Lolita4Life
ok we just have to agree to disagree.
obviously, since you dont love purebreds or showing or bettering lines you wont see my point and we will never agree.
That's okay- we both still love dogs. 
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| Posted 8/10/06 12:03 PM |
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skew
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 6794 total posts
Name:
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
i also agree that the more pressing issues are the backyard breeders and puppymills but i do share your devotion to adoption.
Message edited 8/10/2006 12:09:01 PM.
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| Posted 8/10/06 12:04 PM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
Posted by casey31
Posted by Lolita4Life
ok we just have to agree to disagree.
obviously, since you dont love purebreds or showing or bettering lines you wont see my point and we will never agree.
That's okay- we both still love dogs.
yep.
and i actually adopted one of my purebreds.
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| Posted 8/10/06 12:11 PM |
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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
Posted by shamrock12472
Posted by MsMBV
Posted by shamrock12472
Just a FYI...About 25% of dogs in shelters are purebreds. So if you are looking for a particular breed for any reason, they are out there to be adopted. Also, every breed has a rescue organization. A good place to start is the American Kennel Club ...www.akc.com. They have links to the rescues. Adopting can be a much longer process but well worth the time and effort.
Most of us that are defending responsible breeders will also, if you search our old posts, direct people to breed-specific rescue. Also, many breed-specific rescues are no-kill. I myself always look to adopt first.
Pyxie is from a breeder. I made a conscious effort, after looking quite vigorously at the rescue orgs, to go with a breeder. WHY? Because Chinese Cresteds have a wealth of health issues. None of the available dogs had any lineage information. Although certain health tests were performed, they only show that the conditions were not present at that time. When you use a breeder, they perform the genetic testing you will know the possibility of a problem presenting itself later.
My post was more for those people who are reading it or lurking and really aren't on here all that much. It really was just meant to be educational; not directed at any point of view.
It's all good
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| Posted 8/10/06 3:13 PM |
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azoodie
Member since 8/05 8377 total posts
Name:
Team SEXY BACK
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
Breeders whether you like it or not ARE part of the problem because they are BREEDING although I feel the fault is mostly indirect because of neglectful owners. There are too many dogs that need homes and not enough people to take them. Plain and simple.
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| Posted 8/10/06 5:22 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
Posted by azoodie
Breeders whether you like it or not ARE part of the problem because they are BREEDING although I feel the fault is mostly indirect because of neglectful owners. There are too many dogs that need homes and not enough people to take them. Plain and simple.
BREEDING specific dogs though ISN"T the main issue
ESPECIALLY since as someone said about 25% of dogs in shelters are purebreeds
and of that 25% that doesn't mean they are even responsible breeder products...I would venture to guess that the MAJORITY of that 25% are PUPPYMILL, BYB products...
that leaves 75%...THE MUTTS...NON RESPONISBLE, BACKYARD, PUPPYMILL BREEDER DOGS...which obviously is the kind of "breeding" tht SHOULD be stopped...
We aren't going to have a world wide stopping of dogs mating...
so in all honesty..wasting energy or time in thinking that dogs SHOULDN"T be breeded responsibly....is kinda silly IMO
Message edited 8/10/2006 5:43:29 PM.
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| Posted 8/10/06 5:25 PM |
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AtomicMom
LIF Adolescent
Member since 5/05 632 total posts
Name:
Denise
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
Posted by casey31
If there were no TRUE breeders, dogs would start to change, and you wouldnt be able to adopt a "toy" poodle. Eventually, all dogs would revert to their wild ancestry and begin to look and act more like wolves....
_____________________________
I don't really think that is true- that dogs would go back to being wolves.
FYI:
No matter size, dogs are wolves
By Gina Spadafori
Cox News Service
As strange as it may seem when considering the incredible range of sizes, shapes and even coat types and markings, every dog from the smallest Chihuahua to the tallest Irish wolfhound is genetically a wolf.
Mark Derr, author of "A Dog's History of America" and "Dog's Best Friend" and a regular contributor on dog-related issues to national magazines, points out that the dog was reclassified as a wolf several years ago, and is no longer considered to be a stand-alone species.
Our meddling into their breeding is behind the wide range of types in dogs, and it's likely if we stopped today, dogs would eventually mix it up on their own until they ended up looking a lot more like wolves, says Derr.
"When left to breed freely, dogs revert to a generalized pariah-type often associated with the dingo or pariah dog of India or generic husky - a medium-sized, prick-eared animal with a ginger, black, black and tan, white, and parti-colored coats," notes Derr. He adds: "The dog doesn't have to revert to the wolf. The dog is a wolf- albeit a wolf who exists in human society." -G.S.
LINK to source
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| Posted 8/10/06 10:25 PM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
Posted by azoodie
Breeders whether you like it or not ARE part of the problem because they are BREEDING although I feel the fault is mostly indirect because of neglectful owners. There are too many dogs that need homes and not enough people to take them. Plain and simple.
you know i love you Azad, but i completely disagree with this.
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| Posted 8/11/06 1:10 AM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
true breeders are NOT the problem!
backyard breeders, puppymills, pet shops, etc ARE.
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| Posted 8/11/06 1:11 AM |
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azoodie
Member since 8/05 8377 total posts
Name:
Team SEXY BACK
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
that's okay I know people will disagree but I totally see where you guys are coming from 
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| Posted 8/11/06 8:23 AM |
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Shanti
True love
Member since 6/05 12653 total posts
Name:
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
Just want to add one thing about breeders... both of our contracts for our dogs say that if we no longer want them for whatever reason, we have to give them back to the breeder to ensure that they never end up in a shelter. So I really do think that true breeders want what is best for the dogs they breed.
But I can agree to disagree
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| Posted 8/11/06 8:25 AM |
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casey31
Mommy of 3!
Member since 5/05 2967 total posts
Name:
Mommy to two boys and a girl
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
Posted by neesiepie
Posted by casey31
If there were no TRUE breeders, dogs would start to change, and you wouldnt be able to adopt a "toy" poodle. Eventually, all dogs would revert to their wild ancestry and begin to look and act more like wolves....
_____________________________
I don't really think that is true- that dogs would go back to being wolves.
FYI:
No matter size, dogs are wolves
By Gina Spadafori
Cox News Service
As strange as it may seem when considering the incredible range of sizes, shapes and even coat types and markings, every dog from the smallest Chihuahua to the tallest Irish wolfhound is genetically a wolf.
Mark Derr, author of "A Dog's History of America" and "Dog's Best Friend" and a regular contributor on dog-related issues to national magazines, points out that the dog was reclassified as a wolf several years ago, and is no longer considered to be a stand-alone species.
Our meddling into their breeding is behind the wide range of types in dogs, and it's likely if we stopped today, dogs would eventually mix it up on their own until they ended up looking a lot more like wolves, says Derr.
"When left to breed freely, dogs revert to a generalized pariah-type often associated with the dingo or pariah dog of India or generic husky - a medium-sized, prick-eared animal with a ginger, black, black and tan, white, and parti-colored coats," notes Derr. He adds: "The dog doesn't have to revert to the wolf. The dog is a wolf- albeit a wolf who exists in human society." -G.S.
LINK to source
That doesn't mean they would act wild again like wolves. They would be mutts that look like their ancestors- there is nothing wrong with that. Breeders can be responisble and good but, in the end, they are still adding extra dogs to this overpopoluated world. They are selling a dog to loving home- that loving home could have taken in a homeless dog. Our species has been cruel to the canine species and before we continue to breed them we should try and get every dog into a good home. JMO.
Message edited 8/11/2006 9:23:15 AM.
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| Posted 8/11/06 9:21 AM |
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AtomicMom
LIF Adolescent
Member since 5/05 632 total posts
Name:
Denise
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Re: Moderation- warning long!
Posted by casey31
That doesn't mean they would act wild again like wolves. They would be mutts that look like their ancestors- there is nothing wrong with that. Breeders can be responisble and good but, in the end, they are still adding extra dogs to this overpopoluated world. They are selling a dog to loving home- that loving home could have taken in a homeless dog. Our species has been cruel to the canine species and before we continue to breed them we should try and get every dog into a good home. JMO.
Ok, as much as I love a good debate, I think I have to just say I disagree but I also see everyone's point.
The 2 main points:
1) Adoption is wonderful and should be one of the first options for one who wants a pet
2) Professional breeders are NOT the problem. Backyard breeders, irresponsible pet ownership, and not spaying/neutering ALL non-show dogs ARE the problem. The mutts we all love are the end result.
Bottom line: PLEASE spay/neuter your pet. PLEASE do not buy from a pet store. PLEASE consider breed rescue and adoption first if you want a specific breed.
Last, if you exhaust these other options for a purebred dog, then make sure you buy from a reputable breeder.
GO TO www.akc.org and locate the breed referral contact. Send them an email with your location and they will find a responsible breeder closest to you.
THANKS for a great discussion ladies! The pet board ROCKS!
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| Posted 8/11/06 10:19 AM |
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