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New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
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BargainMama
LIF Adult
Member since 5/09 15657 total posts
Name:
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by MrsDamonSalv7319
Posted by Jacksmommy
"It's one size fits all" if you will, w/ little regard for special needs students-you can now ONLY get a regents diploma.
The
This is actually not true. There are two other credentials that students with disabilities can receive.
From what I heard, it's certificates, but not specifically a diploma...so when they are filling out applications that ask if they have a high school diploma, will they be able to say yes and provide one? If yes, than that's great bc that's not what I heard, and I think it's horrible if what I heard was true.
**** (quote messed up)
My son is in special ed, 9th grade. The state took away the IEP diploma starting in 2012. So now in order for him to receive a diploma, he has to pass the regent's test. The same exact test that the general education students take.
If he does not pass with a 65 or higher (not percentage..points) he can get a local diploma if he scores a 55 to 64. If he scores less than 55 he will get a certificate of completion. No diploma. I am very upset over this. He works his butt off in school, tries SO hard, gets graded well based on his effort, but NEVER passes these standardized tests. EVER. He gets 1's. So, he will go to school for 4 years, work his ass off, and get NOTHING in the end. He won't walk with his class and get a HS diploma. I'm disgusted by the change. It keeps me up at night.
Message edited 10/29/2013 9:23:03 PM.
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Posted 10/29/13 9:22 PM  |
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2BadSoSad
LIF Adult
Member since 8/12 6791 total posts
Name:
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by Michelle1110
Posted by 2BadSoSad
Posted by Michelle1110
I am not against common core. Common core is a set of standards, NOT curriculum. Yes, curriculum is based on standards. Yes, Pearson AND scholastic are making crap tons of money on our kids - esp when they fail. So the powers that be regarding testing and those companies are the ones who get me in a huff. Not common core. Common core learning standards (corestandards.org) are designed to get our kids to be college and career ready and competitive world wide. They need that!!! In my honest opinion - it is not CCLS that's the problem. Standardized tests are.
No, it is not the curriculum specifically, it is the standards to which the curriculum is based. For instance, NY uses the engageNY module, but it is aligned with the standards set by common core. The testing of these curriculums aligned with these standards ARE common core driven (PARCC). The lengthy PARCC tests will be rolled out in the 2014-2015 year and will be administered in April and AGAIN in June.
This is a Gates funded and Corporate profit driven reform, the curriculum is just one piece of a MUCH larger issue with Common Core (the umbrella which all of the pieces fall under).
It's two separate entities - governors created CCLS, NYS created the common core ALIGNED tests.
Gates funded consultants FOR the NGA created Common Core. It is my understanding that the tests are created by PARCC, a nineteen state group and they can (and are being adopted by NYS in 2015). These tests will still align with common core standards which is one of the points of contention along with testing. Yes, the states can modify these tests if they so wish.
My other issue is PARCC being tied to RTTT, which is then linked to Data Dashboard.
Im not debating with you, just stating my POV on this and that my problems with Common Core extend FAR beyond the curriculum and testing aspects of it.
Message edited 10/29/2013 9:31:09 PM.
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| Posted 10/29/13 9:29 PM |
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by BargainMama
Posted by MrsDamonSalv7319
Posted by Jacksmommy
"It's one size fits all" if you will, w/ little regard for special needs students-you can now ONLY get a regents diploma.
The
This is actually not true. There are two other credentials that students with disabilities can receive.
From what I heard, it's certificates, but not specifically a diploma...so when they are filling out applications that ask if they have a high school diploma, will they be able to say yes and provide one? If yes, than that's great bc that's not what I heard, and I think it's horrible if what I heard was true.
**** (quote messed up)
My son is in special ed, 9th grade. The state took away the IEP diploma starting in 2012. So now in order for him to receive a diploma, he has to pass the regent's test. The same exact test that the general education students take.
If he does not pass with a 65 or higher (not percentage..points) he can get a local diploma if he scores a 55 to 64. If he scores less than 55 he will get a certificate of completion. No diploma. I am very upset over this. He works his butt off in school, tries SO hard, gets graded well based on his effort, but NEVER passes these standardized tests. EVER. He gets 1's. So, he will go to school for 4 years, work his ass off, and get NOTHING in the end. He won't walk with his class and get a HS diploma. I'm disgusted by the change. It keeps me up at night.
*** it seems as if all the quotes are messing up****
Thank you for explaining and I think that is just awful!! I really hope things change for the better!!
Message edited 10/29/2013 9:31:02 PM.
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| Posted 10/29/13 9:30 PM |
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LIMomma
LIF Adolescent
Member since 6/12 523 total posts
Name:
Momma
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Common Core when initially discussed over 10 years ago was a good idea, but what it morphed into was a BAD implementation. It snowballed, AND tests were added, AND districts added tests to test for the tests, AND states added test to test teachers who teach to the test, AND then the only thing there was time for was teaching to test for the test.
I believe that we have educators who should be allowed to do just that...EDUCATE. These PROFESSIONALS should have GUIDELINES that set the pace and allow for creativity (which right now is a HUGH loss), social studies and science which right now are "when there is time," and the flip of the switch in curriculum which was poorly implemented across the board - so kids that were learning one methodology walked into train wrecks like Go Math! that is a train wreck in itself.
Where I know I disagree with a lot of parents. I don't think Opting Out is the solution. If the kids don't take the tests, that just creates chaos, but if politicians and elected officals (like the Board of Regents) start to feel the heat, then and only then things will change.
There is A LOT of "emotional" information and people trying to make a name for themselves in this. What each parent needs to do is decide for themselves what is the true information and how best to step forward to protect their child.
For our house, opting out is not an option. WHY? Because you will be tested fairly or not - in EVERYTHING you do for the rest of your life. Learning that walking away when something isn't right. What we do tell my DD is to do her best, that this test does not reflect what we already know, that she is smart, capable and all she can do is her best.
What we do is fight for our children at a level where being heard will matter. Stopping the commercialization of education - Shell - NOPE - not after the common core commercials they advertised, as an example.
John King, Marilyn Tisch, Gov Cuomo, our local and state representatives know my husband and I by our voice. John King - whose children attend a private school exempt from these tests -is a prime example.
The Board of Regents are elected, the Governor and represenatives are elected. They DO NOT want to risk their careers or go down in infamy for not listening to their constituents. THIS is where the fight needs to be, not by (IN MY OPINION - because this is where I know I am not on the same page as most) using my child as a pawn -if I did I would be no better than the John Kings of the world who are trying to do the same thing.
Message edited 10/29/2013 10:05:59 PM.
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| Posted 10/29/13 10:03 PM |
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2BadSoSad
LIF Adult
Member since 8/12 6791 total posts
Name:
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by LIMomma
Common Core when initially discussed over 10 years ago was a good idea, but what it morphed into was a BAD implementation. It snowballed, AND tests were added, AND districts added tests to test for the tests, AND states added test to test teachers who teach to the test, AND then the only thing there was time for was teaching to test for the test.
I believe that we have educators who should be allowed to do just that...EDUCATE. These PROFESSIONALS should have GUIDELINES that set the pace and allow for creativity (which is a HUGH loss), social studies and science are "when there is time," and the switch in curriculum was acros the board - so kids that were learning one methodology walked into train wrecks like Go Math! that is a train wreck in itself.
Where I disagree with a lot of parents. I don't think Opting Out is the solution. If the kids don't take the tests, that just creates chaos, but if politicians and elected officals (like the Board of Regents) start to feel the heat, then and only then things will change.
There is A LOT of "emotional" information and people trying to make a name for themselves in this. What each parent needs to do is decide for themselves what is the true information and how best to step forward to protect their child.
For our house, opting out is not an option. WHY? Because you will be tested fairly or not - in EVERYTHING you do for the rest of your life. Learning that walking away when something isn't right. What we do tell my DD is to do her best, that this test does not reflect what we already know, that she is smart, capable and all she can do is her best.
What we do is fight for our children at a level where being heard will matter. Stopping the commercialization of education - Shell - NOPE - not after the common core commercials they advertised, as an example.
John King, Marilyn Tisch, Gov Cuomo, our local and state representatives know my husband and I by our voice. John King - whose children attend a private school exempt from these tests -is a prime example.
The Board of Regents are elected, the Governor and represenatives are elected. They DO NOT want to risk their careers or go down in infamy for not listening to their constituents. THIS is where the fight needs to be, not by (IN MY OPINION - because this is where I know I am not on the same page as most) using my child as a pawn -if I did I would be no better than the John Kings of the world who are trying to do the same thing.
Well said. As an opponent of Common Core, I have to say, I do not support Opting Out, or the newest movement of keeping your kids out of school on the 18th in protest. They are pawns enough if this and I will fight this fight for them. My main focus is our elected officials, our BOE, and our principals.
For anyone interested, there is a gathering (not a protest) outside Sen. Flanagan's office in Smithtown on 10/30 at 3:30.
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| Posted 10/29/13 10:08 PM |
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lazybug
LIF Adult
Member since 3/12 1013 total posts
Name:
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by Michelle1110
I am not against common core. Common core is a set of standards, NOT curriculum. Yes, curriculum is based on standards. Yes, Pearson AND scholastic are making crap tons of money on our kids - esp when they fail. So the powers that be regarding testing and those companies are the ones who get me in a huff. Not common core. Common core learning standards (corestandards.org) are designed to get our kids to be college and career ready and competitive world wide. They need that!!! In my honest opinion - it is not CCLS that's the problem. Standardized tests are.
Well stated! I agree 100%.
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| Posted 10/29/13 10:27 PM |
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Jacksmommy
My love muffin!
Member since 1/07 5819 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by BargainMama
Posted by MrsDamonSalv7319
Posted by Jacksmommy
"It's one size fits all" if you will, w/ little regard for special needs students-you can now ONLY get a regents diploma.
The
This is actually not true. There are two other credentials that students with disabilities can receive.
From what I heard, it's certificates, but not specifically a diploma...so when they are filling out applications that ask if they have a high school diploma, will they be able to say yes and provide one? If yes, than that's great bc that's not what I heard, and I think it's horrible if what I heard was true.
**** (quote messed up)
My son is in special ed, 9th grade. The state took away the IEP diploma starting in 2012. So now in order for him to receive a diploma, he has to pass the regent's test. The same exact test that the general education students take.
If he does not pass with a 65 or higher (not percentage..points) he can get a local diploma if he scores a 55 to 64. If he scores less than 55 he will get a certificate of completion. No diploma. I am very upset over this. He works his butt off in school, tries SO hard, gets graded well based on his effort, but NEVER passes these standardized tests. EVER. He gets 1's. So, he will go to school for 4 years, work his ass off, and get NOTHING in the end. He won't walk with his class and get a HS diploma. I'm disgusted by the change. It keeps me up at night.
I am sorry to be blunt, but then you were misinformed about what an IEP diploma was. Because, it wasn't just a catch for kids who didn't pass their regents. It was a piece of paper stating they attended high school. Students who received an IEP diploma were not able to attend the military or get jobs which required a high school diploma. And if your school has been blindly giving out IEP diplomas for the last several years for a child who has not been passing the regents, then they are not doing the right thing. An IEP Diploma (just like the SACC) is designed for students with SEVERE cognitive delays. There were no standards attached to receiving an IEP diploma, aside from attending school.
You are right in saying they are only credentials now, not diplomas, but it doesn't seem much different from previously. However, there is a new added bonus on one of the credentials. The school district has to make significant efforts to get the child work ready, including putting the child in the community for a certain amount (and it was several) of work hours, which your child, and others, can then claim as work experience. As I am sure you know, experience means a whole lot when applying for a job. In the past, there were kids who weren't passing, and just continued to do that, their whole high school career. Now, at least they will be required to have a set of skills to go out into the field with. They will have to do 2 years of a career and technical school as well.
In addition, for the diploma, for students with disabilities, there is a compensatory safety net, which allows students with between a 45-55 replace one (or more)of their five regents with one (or more)above a 65.
ETA: http://www.p12.nysed.gov/ciai/gradreq/diploma-credential-summary.pdf
Message edited 10/30/2013 5:12:24 AM.
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| Posted 10/30/13 5:06 AM |
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sfp0701
Liam's Mommy!
Member since 1/07 9764 total posts
Name:
Tricia
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by Jacksmommy
"It's one size fits all" if you will, w/ little regard for special needs students-you can now ONLY get a regents diploma.
The
This is actually not true. There are two other credentials that students with disabilities can receive.
Sort of.
It used to be that you could strive for the Regents diploma. If you didn't make it, you could get a local diploma. Now that is gone.
So it's either Regents or a certificate saying that you were exposed to life skills. I don't know the new acronym. But, that is the option. It's not a diploma. It's a certificate.
What will happen is they will dummy down the Regents so that these kids can get it also. Regents are being phased out. I think starting this year. They are being replaced by different tests that are CC aligned. So that "Regents" diploma that used to mean so much compared to a local diploma will not mean as much.. lose for the reg ed kids. AND the special ed kids who could almost make the Regents but, fell short...get nothing...basically.
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| Posted 10/30/13 7:41 AM |
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BargainMama
LIF Adult
Member since 5/09 15657 total posts
Name:
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by Jacksmommy
Posted by BargainMama
Posted by MrsDamonSalv7319
Posted by Jacksmommy
"It's one size fits all" if you will, w/ little regard for special needs students-you can now ONLY get a regents diploma.
The
This is actually not true. There are two other credentials that students with disabilities can receive.
From what I heard, it's certificates, but not specifically a diploma...so when they are filling out applications that ask if they have a high school diploma, will they be able to say yes and provide one? If yes, than that's great bc that's not what I heard, and I think it's horrible if what I heard was true.
**** (quote messed up)
My son is in special ed, 9th grade. The state took away the IEP diploma starting in 2012. So now in order for him to receive a diploma, he has to pass the regent's test. The same exact test that the general education students take.
If he does not pass with a 65 or higher (not percentage..points) he can get a local diploma if he scores a 55 to 64. If he scores less than 55 he will get a certificate of completion. No diploma. I am very upset over this. He works his butt off in school, tries SO hard, gets graded well based on his effort, but NEVER passes these standardized tests. EVER. He gets 1's. So, he will go to school for 4 years, work his ass off, and get NOTHING in the end. He won't walk with his class and get a HS diploma. I'm disgusted by the change. It keeps me up at night.
I am sorry to be blunt, but then you were misinformed about what an IEP diploma was. Because, it wasn't just a catch for kids who didn't pass their regents. It was a piece of paper stating they attended high school. Students who received an IEP diploma were not able to attend the military or get jobs which required a high school diploma. And if your school has been blindly giving out IEP diplomas for the last several years for a child who has not been passing the regents, then they are not doing the right thing. An IEP Diploma (just like the SACC) is designed for students with SEVERE cognitive delays. There were no standards attached to receiving an IEP diploma, aside from attending school.
You are right in saying they are only credentials now, not diplomas, but it doesn't seem much different from previously. However, there is a new added bonus on one of the credentials. The school district has to make significant efforts to get the child work ready, including putting the child in the community for a certain amount (and it was several) of work hours, which your child, and others, can then claim as work experience. As I am sure you know, experience means a whole lot when applying for a job. In the past, there were kids who weren't passing, and just continued to do that, their whole high school career. Now, at least they will be required to have a set of skills to go out into the field with. They will have to do 2 years of a career and technical school as well.
In addition, for the diploma, for students with disabilities, there is a compensatory safety net, which allows students with between a 45-55 replace one (or more)of their five regents with one (or more)above a 65.
ETA: http://www.p12.nysed.gov/ciai/gradreq/diploma-credential-summary.pdf
I never said our district was handing out anything.
In researching, the information I stated was what I came up with, and what I was told from our director of pupil personnel services last year.Oh, and that safety net only appears to apply to students entering 9th grade prior to 2011. My son entered 9th grade this year.
Many other states don't have a regent's or the like requirement. A diploma for these children in special education is awarded for meeting their goals, etc. Why are there even goals on the IEP now? They mean absolutely nothing at the high school level. So what if he masters multiplication in 9th grade? That means nothing in obtaining a diploma if he is expected to the same exact work and tests as the general education students.
My son has cognitive delays, as much as I want to say with confidence that he will get a 65 or even 55 on ANY of the tests, the realist in me says no, he won't. Again, he received 1's on the ELA and Math tests last year.
In theory, the work ready experience is nice, but I think it will be hard to get a job without a HS diploma. Even a menial one.
As it stands, he is on the Regent's track right now, but we have a CSE meeting next week, and I'm discussing his placement. If he is going to work his butt off to try to pass these, with nothing in the end, why continue to do this to him? Why not just switch to the life skills program since he won't receive a diploma in the end either way.
Anyway, sorry to hijack your post OP since this has zero to do with common core.
Message edited 10/30/2013 9:04:49 AM.
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| Posted 10/30/13 8:39 AM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
I wonder how much of this is unique to NY though. I had never heard of a Regents diploma until I moved to NY and was helping SIL with her resume when she was just out of hs. Regents is a NY thing. In MA, you either got a diploma for graduating high school or you didn't. There was no "special" diploma for getting higher scores. Same here in CT, as far as I know, it's a diploma or nada. So I guess I don't see the big deal. In most states you either get a diploma or you don't. Sure you could graduate with honors etc but you don't get special diplomas.
And I can see some of the gripes about common core, but I don't think it's so bad to be honest. I am not against the testing either. For many professions you have to pass many, many standardized tests to proceed into school (think SATs, LSATs,GREs). In many fields like medicine (Doctors, nurses, radiology techs etc), law, cosmetology, funeral directing etc you have to pass state boards. So we do standardized testing for many things and those aren't griped about. DH had to take a whole class in college that "taught to the tests" he would be taking, including his state boards and national boards.
And why is it so bad to have standards? Unless there is some type of learning disability or special need, kids coming out of certain grades should possess certain skills. There's a whole generation of kids out there who weren't taught how to THINK or use any type of logic. I see it with DH's younger cousins. The blank stares when you ask them logic based questions but boy, can they mimic answers back like pros! They lack common sense skills. And ALL his cousins are graduates of LI schools (good districts) with Regents diplomas, too. I watch as kids can't sound words out because they were only taught sight words (hence the move back to phonics based learning for many schools). I watch as kids at stores can't make change when the register doesn't give them the total because they were never taught to. They can't seem to reason or think outside the box.
Common core, from what I have read, from teachers in other states I've spoken to, to my research friend all say common core is not a bad thing, but the implementation by some states or districts may be at issue. I've also heard that success will be teacher based, but that is with any program. If a teacher is burned out, unmotivated, hates his/her job, or just a poor teacher etc then they aren't going to be successful.
One of the points that was brought up by a friend who teaches hs honors math in TX is that implementation of CCSS is being done all at once rather than rolled out slowly, so that a kid who is in 5th grade when CCSS is implemented may fail if they can't complete the 5th grade standards. This I agree, is a problem. Implementing it for incoming kindy/1st graders and implementing it for each grade that they advance into is one thing, but throwing a bunch of standards on older kids and teachers who may not have the skillsets to succeed with 100% implementation may not be the way to go here. I think the higher grades will have more struggles with common core as implemented than lower grades.
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| Posted 10/30/13 9:11 AM |
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BargainMama
LIF Adult
Member since 5/09 15657 total posts
Name:
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by tara73
I wonder how much of this is unique to NY though. I had never heard of a Regents diploma until I moved to NY and was helping SIL with her resume when she was just out of hs. Regents is a NY thing. In MA, you either got a diploma for graduating high school or you didn't. There was no "special" diploma for getting higher scores. Same here in CT, as far as I know, it's a diploma or nada. So I guess I don't see the big deal. In most states you either get a diploma or you don't. Sure you could graduate with honors etc but you don't get special diplomas.
Exactly how it was in the state I grew up in. If you had enough credits, you received a diploma. I think a few states have these tests in order to graduate, but I think the majority do not.
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| Posted 10/30/13 9:19 AM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by BargainMama
Exactly how it was in the state I grew up in. If you had enough credits, you received a diploma. I think a few states have these tests in order to graduate, but I think the majority do not.
Exactly.
And I've NEVER seen a job application ask why type of diploma you have.
Do you have a high school diploma? Y or N
That's it.
And for colleges, you have to send in your transcripts with your grades and SAT scores etc so really what is the point of a "special" diploma other than bragging rights? No one outside of NY recognizes a Regents diploma as anything better than a regular diploma.
I guess I don't see the point of fighting for a Regents diploma vs local diploma. A diploma is a diploma to the rest of the world.
(I will say, however, that the elimination of diplomas for special needs kids is wrong)
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| Posted 10/30/13 9:26 AM |
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by tara73
Common core, from what I have read, from teachers in other states I've spoken to, to my research friend all say common core is not a bad thing, but the implementation by some states or districts may be at issue. I've also heard that success will be teacher based, but that is with any program. If a teacher is burned out, unmotivated, hates his/her job, or just a poor teacher etc then they aren't going to be successful.
My issue tends to be more with implementation- I do think it's a big part of the problem. I have to be pretty well-versed in the ELA standards for 6-12 for my work, and I don't find them problematic. They are pretty similar to the old NYS Standards. But I know many schools are interpreting however they want (i.e. eliminating literature in favor of informational text, even though literature is still supposed to be included.)
And the tests are too much IMO, at least for the younger kids. I volunteer with my first grader's library class and they recently took a test that took 2 classes to complete and had some pretty heavy-duty questions- though I suspect APPR is more to blame here.
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| Posted 10/30/13 9:28 AM |
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BargainMama
LIF Adult
Member since 5/09 15657 total posts
Name:
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by tara73
Posted by BargainMama
Exactly how it was in the state I grew up in. If you had enough credits, you received a diploma. I think a few states have these tests in order to graduate, but I think the majority do not.
Exactly.
And I've NEVER seen a job application ask why type of diploma you have.
Do you have a high school diploma? Y or N
That's it.
And for colleges, you have to send in your transcripts with your grades and SAT scores etc so really what is the point of a "special" diploma other than bragging rights? No one outside of NY recognizes a Regents diploma as anything better than a regular diploma.
I guess I don't see the point of fighting for a Regents diploma vs local diploma. A diploma is a diploma to the rest of the world.
(I will say, however, that the elimination of diplomas for special needs kids is wrong)
Believe me, we would be happy, beyond thrilled, ecstatic even, for a local diploma! Just something that recognizes his hard work, and him trying to the best of his ability.
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| Posted 10/30/13 9:31 AM |
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Xelindrya
Mommy's little YouTube Star!
Member since 8/05 14470 total posts
Name:
Veronica
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New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Ok finally saw the Sayville superindendent video. But I have a question.
Didn't NYS Already sort of 'teach to a test' with Regents?
We did not have tests like Regents. We just had exit level exams you had to pass to get a diploma. But they weren't subject specific. It was reading, math, science. I passed with flying colors no big deal and when I went to school in NY they said I had to have Regents. When I said I was from Texas, they just passed me right along.
I took an entrance exam and other than NOT bringing a scientifc calculator with me (duh!) I did very well 16yrs post school. Well enough to get Honors. Still get letters from Nassau LOL So what's the big deal with Regents?
Is there any redeeming value in this thing at all?
Mostly here, we hear about WHAT is being taught as equally as HOW it is taught. It centers around that teachers can't teach. But they are held to the standard of the test as much as the kids. The material taught is being put online a lot about how its twisting history and facts, etc.
I don't know what to listen to since a lot of it is "BIG government teaching our kids, their values not ours". Which obviously I can't see yet.
Guess I should be 'grateful' (maybe) that Texas has chosen not to mandate Common Core.. however one district in San Antonio is using the Common Core as their structure. Its a big school district too, a poor district and one with bad numbers. They felt it would improve the children's chances with their futures.
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| Posted 10/30/13 9:46 AM |
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by kimmaymb20
Please find on YouTube Walter Schartner(sp) the superintendent in the Sayville School district on his testimony of Common Core good stuff!
If you're a parent on LI and are having trouble understanding why many components of CC are bad for your child and his/ her district, please watch this video. Dr Schartner is the Superintendent of Sayville Schools, and has been in education over 40 years. He does a great job explaining why the Common Core is specifically detrimental to the already superb LI school districts.
You can just search Dr Schartner and it's the Suffolk Forum video.
Message edited 10/30/2013 10:06:59 AM.
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| Posted 10/30/13 9:55 AM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by Xelindrya
Didn't NYS Already sort of 'teach to a test' with Regents?
I guess this is one thing that leaves me scratching my head about NYS and the complaints I keep hearing about how these kids are suddenly going to be "taught to the test".
I watched all DH's (and still do) as they panic about their Regents exams and how well they will do. They are excellent parrots because of it. I have friends in NY who have hs kids with the same thing. It's all about the Regents exams. One friend posted something on FB about what their kid was learning and when asked why, the answer was "because they need it for Regents exams".
So I don't get that complaint. The tests we took in school that were standardized and done for benchmark purposes. There was certain information and skills that they expected the kids in our grade to know and we either fell below, met, or exceeded the standards. Failing schools were targeted for improvement. They didn't affect our grades or placement. They really measured the class progress as a whole, the school, district etc. I know in HS friends who would screw with the tests and fill in the dots to make pictures or patterns. And I did most of my schooling in the 80's.
Other than that it was the SATs you prepped for. We had whole classes to teach us "THE test". So, teaching to "the test" has existed in one form or another for decades. Standardized tests go back to at least the 70's, possibly even further.
The vast majority of arguments I have heard against Common Core's basic standards don't convince me at all. Some of the arguments I've heard don't even make sense. I don't understand what the problems are because so many of the people I hear complaining are just parroting information they have heard second or third hand. They don't understand what they're saying or even why they're disagreeing except that it's change, and change is bad.
I disagree with some of NY's decisions, including the one where they will no longer give diplomas to special needs students. That, to me, is just wrong. I get the arguments about implementation, but that is state/district driven, not an issue with common core itself.
So I can't see why common core standards are considered to be so bad and so vehemently opposed.
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| Posted 10/30/13 10:03 AM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
This is the PDF of the youtube video.
http://www.sayville.k12.ny.us/files/37046/common%20concerns%20schrtner%20gives%20testimony.pdf
I believe that the Common Core Learning Standards (CCLS) have merit as we are always trying to raise the bar for our students.
This is what I keep hearing over and over from people within the education community. Common core's standards have merit, they're positive changes.
So when I hear parents proclaim that common core is the devil, it makes no sense to me since even educators that they are referring to feel it has merit.l
However, the CCLS and supporting curricula was hastily shared and changed causing confusion.
This isn't a problem with Common core itself. It's a problem with NYS and their implementation.
As with anything NYS seems to do, it's convoluted and a gigantic mess.
My opinion, based on my experience, is that the CCLS should have been phased-in starting with kindergarten. The firs t assessment based on Common Core should have been implemented when thos e kindergarten students reached 3 rd grade with several years of sample questions to pr epare for the rigor. By pushing everything so quickly the SED has broken the spirit of many students, teach ers, parents, and administrators and called into question the validity of thes e measures. The students that were successful in the past, all of a sudden, are no longer successful.
Again, IMPLEMENTATION, not the standards, are the problem.
Something that is not out in the front of this issue is funding. NYS spends a smaller percentage of its bud get on testing than most of the other states. This is due to the state placing the burden of prin ting, implementing, and scoring the test on the local tax payer. In Sayville al one, NYS testing cost s the taxpayers one- quarter of a million dollars. The state should take full fiscal responsibility for state testing. If NYS wants statewide testing th ey should fully fund it. The state should have an independent study on the cost eff ectiveness of the APPR and State testing related to the goal of incr eased student achievement.
Agree 100% with him here, the STATE should be picking up the costs of STATE MANDATED TESTS, not the individual districts.
We need to slow down on the implementa tion of CCLS, the Co mmon Core testing, and the APPR process.
I agree with him here.
So the big issues seem to be implementation by NYS and funding. Not the Common Core standards themselves.
Message edited 10/30/2013 10:20:19 AM.
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| Posted 10/30/13 10:16 AM |
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
I think MANY parents would be thrilled if JUST the CC standards were kept, but the curriculum that the state has developed to go with them, along with the high stakes testing were thrown out. The standards, aren't all that different from the standards NYS already has in place.
Many more people are upset with the modules, curriculum, implementation, Pearson materials, In Bloom, etc than just the new standards.
If you WATCH the 14 minute video, much of this is explained...the PDF is from the testimony given, but he didn't just re-read testimony during the forum, he elaborated.
ETa: if anyone thinks that this is all about raising the educational bar in NY, and NOT about large corporations making money at our kids expense, please do more research. The fact that teachers, (teachers Unions), parents, and superintendents are ALL on the same side of this battle should be a clue that its not just parents opposing change.
Message edited 10/30/2013 10:28:13 AM.
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| Posted 10/30/13 10:23 AM |
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2BadSoSad
LIF Adult
Member since 8/12 6791 total posts
Name:
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by MrsDamonSalv7319
I think MANY parents would be thrilled if JUST the CC standards were kept, but the curriculum that the state has developed to go with them, along with the high stakes testing were thrown out. The standards, aren't all that different from the standards NYS already has in place.
Many more people are upset with the modules, curriculum, implementation, Pearson materials, In Bloom, etc than just the new standards.
If you WATCH the 14 minute video, much of this is explained...the PDF is from the testimony given, but he didn't just re-read testimony during the forum, he elaborated.
It is effecting what our children are taught and HOW they are taught. For NYS Regents they were taught MATERIAL, well rounded material that would be on the tests.
For CC, they are being taught HOW to test. They are being taught 80% ELA and Math. My DC class starts the day with sprints, they do two worksheets as fast and accurately as possible to prepare them for testing.
They are squeezing out the arts, science and history with a focus on ELA and Math. My DC own teacher said to us this year, when you read to your child at night, "I beg of you, please read them non-fiction. Please read to them about history, about presidents, about animals, about the world bc I cannot spend time on these anymore. I try my best to incorporate them into my ELA and Math lessons, but it is not to be my focus."
Children who do poorly on the tests are then sent to AIS services - children who do not need them. Children who until the implementation of common core, have always performed well and still do in the classroom. The bar was raised and the scores fell. The number of "underperforming" students DOUBLED this year. They knew this would happen. King himself predicted so.
So these students who do not need AIS are being told to go during what would be art, or music. They are foregoing a well rounded education, the ability to be creative while learning to sit through more unneeded AIS. A child who are judging themselves based on the results of these tests.
Message edited 10/30/2013 10:40:44 AM.
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| Posted 10/30/13 10:38 AM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by MrsDamonSalv7319
I think MANY parents would be thrilled if JUST the CC standards were kept, but the curriculum that the state has developed to go with them, along with the high stakes testing were thrown out. The standards, aren't all that different from the standards NYS already has in place.
Many more people are upset with the modules, curriculum, implementation, Pearson materials, In Bloom, etc than just the new standards.
If you WATCH the 14 minute video, much of this is explained...the PDF is from the testimony given, but he didn't just re-read testimony during the forum, he elaborated.
ETa: if anyone thinks that this is all about raising the educational bar in NY, and NOT about large corporations making money at our kids expense, please do more research. The fact that teachers, (teachers Unions), parents, and superintendents are ALL on the same side of this battle should be a clue that its not just parents opposing change.
So, again, it's not an issue with Common Core Standards themselves, it is an issue with NYS and their implementation of the standards, test funding, relationships with for profit companies, etc.
Is this correct?
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| Posted 10/30/13 10:52 AM |
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by tara73
Posted by MrsDamonSalv7319
I think MANY parents would be thrilled if JUST the CC standards were kept, but the curriculum that the state has developed to go with them, along with the high stakes testing were thrown out. The standards, aren't all that different from the standards NYS already has in place.
Many more people are upset with the modules, curriculum, implementation, Pearson materials, In Bloom, etc than just the new standards.
If you WATCH the 14 minute video, much of this is explained...the PDF is from the testimony given, but he didn't just re-read testimony during the forum, he elaborated.
ETa: if anyone thinks that this is all about raising the educational bar in NY, and NOT about large corporations making money at our kids expense, please do more research. The fact that teachers, (teachers Unions), parents, and superintendents are ALL on the same side of this battle should be a clue that its not just parents opposing change.
So, again, it's not an issue with Common Core Standards themselves, it is an issue with NYS and their implementation of the standards, test funding, relationships with for profit companies, etc.
Is this correct?
I can only speak for myself, and I'm not an expert on this issue at all, but I personally would be ok with adopting these new standards, but leaving it entirely up to the districts to decide the best methods and curriculums to drive the standards. Standards, to my knowledge, are basically statements about what concepts children will learn and what skills they will have when finished with school. Standards alone do not include state testing, state driven curriculum, or texts books and materials that the state determines. That should be left up to the districts, who should include the teachers when they make these decisions.
From my understanding the state adopted this curriculum on its own, and then told school districts they had to comply or they would lose state/federal funding. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong). If it was just a new set of standards, there wouldnt be a huge issue, but it EVERYTHiNG else that the state lumped in with the standards that is very disturbing, especially when money seems to be a driving factor and not student/ teacher success & well being.
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| Posted 10/30/13 11:30 AM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
Name:
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by tara73
Posted by Xelindrya
Didn't NYS Already sort of 'teach to a test' with Regents?
I guess this is one thing that leaves me scratching my head about NYS and the complaints I keep hearing about how these kids are suddenly going to be "taught to the test".
I watched all DH's (and still do) as they panic about their Regents exams and how well they will do. They are excellent parrots because of it. I have friends in NY who have hs kids with the same thing. It's all about the Regents exams. One friend posted something on FB about what their kid was learning and when asked why, the answer was "because they need it for Regents exams".
So I don't get that complaint. The tests we took in school that were standardized and done for benchmark purposes. There was certain information and skills that they expected the kids in our grade to know and we either fell below, met, or exceeded the standards. Failing schools were targeted for improvement. They didn't affect our grades or placement. They really measured the class progress as a whole, the school, district etc. I know in HS friends who would screw with the tests and fill in the dots to make pictures or patterns. And I did most of my schooling in the 80's.
Other than that it was the SATs you prepped for. We had whole classes to teach us "THE test". So, teaching to "the test" has existed in one form or another for decades. Standardized tests go back to at least the 70's, possibly even further.
The vast majority of arguments I have heard against Common Core's basic standards don't convince me at all. Some of the arguments I've heard don't even make sense. I don't understand what the problems are because so many of the people I hear complaining are just parroting information they have heard second or third hand. They don't understand what they're saying or even why they're disagreeing except that it's change, and change is bad.
I disagree with some of NY's decisions, including the one where they will no longer give diplomas to special needs students. That, to me, is just wrong. I get the arguments about implementation, but that is state/district driven, not an issue with common core itself.
So I can't see why common core standards are considered to be so bad and so vehemently opposed.
Regents testing starts in 8th grade. Common core testing starts in 1st grade. I know that standardized testing is something that is a necessary evil but it doesn't belong in my 1st graders classroom. My DC took at fill in the bubble test in gym and music to ascertain what they knew. They will take the same test at the end of the year to base their development on. Is physical education for a 2nd grader the best method of determining development and growth for that subject?
CC was suppose to be about guidelines and not curriculum but the implementation of cc is nothing but curriculum.
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| Posted 10/30/13 12:06 PM |
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05mommy09
Family of 5!
Member since 5/05 15364 total posts
Name:
<3 Mommy <3
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by Michelle1110
I am not against common core. Common core is a set of standards, NOT curriculum. Yes, curriculum is based on standards. Yes, Pearson AND scholastic are making crap tons of money on our kids - esp when they fail. So the powers that be regarding testing and those companies are the ones who get me in a huff. Not common core. Common core learning standards (corestandards.org) are designed to get our kids to be college and career ready and competitive world wide. They need that!!! In my honest opinion - it is not CCLS that's the problem. Standardized tests are.
Other states are implementing Common Core and they are not testing the way NY is....
NY has been pressuring our kids with testing, before common core even came about!
My son (3rd) grade is doing well. Testing hasn't been discussed by me or his teacher. He is not stressed at all! (Not sure he even knows a test is coming!) When the time comes, I will remind him that like ANY test I expect him to do his best. I will not discuss his test scores with him.
What I am most certain he will take from this school year are studying skills I didn't learn until COLLEGE! I'm so impressed with what his teacher has them doing in a sense of preparing himself; making flash cards, reading through things, self checking- using library books/internet to further research information....
Do I think its a bit much, yeah BUT he is clearly capable!
I really think there are some great benefits to common core, but NYS has twisted it so much with all their testing that its all lumped into a big mess!
Message edited 10/30/2013 12:44:38 PM.
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| Posted 10/30/13 12:32 PM |
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KarenK122
The Journey is the Destination
Member since 5/05 4431 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by sfp0701
Posted by Jacksmommy
"It's one size fits all" if you will, w/ little regard for special needs students-you can now ONLY get a regents diploma.
The
This is actually not true. There are two other credentials that students with disabilities can receive.
Sort of.
It used to be that you could strive for the Regents diploma. If you didn't make it, you could get a local diploma. Now that is gone.
So it's either Regents or a certificate saying that you were exposed to life skills. I don't know the new acronym. But, that is the option. It's not a diploma. It's a certificate.
What will happen is they will dummy down the Regents so that these kids can get it also. Regents are being phased out. I think starting this year. They are being replaced by different tests that are CC aligned. So that "Regents" diploma that used to mean so much compared to a local diploma will not mean as much.. lose for the reg ed kids. AND the special ed kids who could almost make the Regents but, fell short...get nothing...basically.
***********************
This is correct. Previously a General Education child could receive a Regents Diploma or a Local Diploma. A Special Needs Student could receive the two mentioned or an IEP diploma. Now they have eliminated the local diploma and a ton of kids GenEd and special ed kids alike will be at a loss and not able to graduate ontime. They will be doing away with Regents Diplomas since it was NY centric and will be replacing it with testes aligned to the Common Core that will have to be passed the same way Regents tests had to be passed in order to graduate. There still some catchalls in place that a previous poster mentioned about the scores on the tests but basically you need to pass to graduate with a Diploma.
The IEP diploma is no longer in existence and is now a Certificate of Completion showing how the student is "work ready" and lists their strengths and weaknesses. It kind of looks like a long IEP with explanations on skills. It's basically worthless. It can not be used to join the military or any job that requires a Diploma as this is now not one. I'm hoping this again changes before my DD enters HS.
But after saying all that, this has absolutely nothing to do with the common core.
And back on topic, we were just notified that King is speaking at Three Village next Wednesday evening.
Message edited 10/30/2013 1:49:56 PM.
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| Posted 10/30/13 1:49 PM |
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