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New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
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2BadSoSad
LIF Adult
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
I also recommend you listen to Diane Ravitch tonight on the Daily Show.
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Posted 10/30/13 2:05 PM  |
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ttcc
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by tara73
Posted by Xelindrya
Didn't NYS Already sort of 'teach to a test' with Regents?
I guess this is one thing that leaves me scratching my head about NYS and the complaints I keep hearing about how these kids are suddenly going to be "taught to the test".
I watched all DH's (and still do) as they panic about their Regents exams and how well they will do. They are excellent parrots because of it. I have friends in NY who have hs kids with the same thing. It's all about the Regents exams. One friend posted something on FB about what their kid was learning and when asked why, the answer was "because they need it for Regents exams".
So I don't get that complaint. The tests we took in school that were standardized and done for benchmark purposes. There was certain information and skills that they expected the kids in our grade to know and we either fell below, met, or exceeded the standards. Failing schools were targeted for improvement. They didn't affect our grades or placement. They really measured the class progress as a whole, the school, district etc. I know in HS friends who would screw with the tests and fill in the dots to make pictures or patterns. And I did most of my schooling in the 80's.
Other than that it was the SATs you prepped for. We had whole classes to teach us "THE test". So, teaching to "the test" has existed in one form or another for decades. Standardized tests go back to at least the 70's, possibly even further.
The vast majority of arguments I have heard against Common Core's basic standards don't convince me at all. Some of the arguments I've heard don't even make sense. I don't understand what the problems are because so many of the people I hear complaining are just parroting information they have heard second or third hand. They don't understand what they're saying or even why they're disagreeing except that it's change, and change is bad.
I disagree with some of NY's decisions, including the one where they will no longer give diplomas to special needs students. That, to me, is just wrong. I get the arguments about implementation, but that is state/district driven, not an issue with common core itself.
So I can't see why common core standards are considered to be so bad and so vehemently opposed.
I think the issue is not so much with the testing at the high school level. It is with all of the testing at the elementary and middle school level. Kids is kindergarten are learning how to "bubble in" scantrons. Kids from 1st grade on are being tested before a unit, mid unit, after a unit, then state tests, district tests. It really is out of control.
From what I have seen of the curriculum at the elementary level, I agree that a lot of it is age inappropriate. While I think that kids need to learn how to think (they only want to know how to get it right). They are throwing too much at them too soon.
Message edited 10/30/2013 2:11:53 PM.
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| Posted 10/30/13 2:10 PM |
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sapphire
LIF Adolescent
Member since 6/06 568 total posts
Name:
Elizabeth
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Love Diane Ravitch, follow her blog.
I know Karen mentioned this, but here is the info
Commissioner John King
Long Island - Suffolk
Ward Melville High School
380 Old Town Road
East Setauket, NY 11733
7:00-9:00 PM
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| Posted 10/30/13 2:11 PM |
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Castle Bridge Parents speak out against Standardized Testing
From Diane Ratvitch's blog. Almost all of the k-2 parents in the school refused testing and give very good reasons as to why...incase anyone wanted to hear some arguments as to why people consider refusing the tests for their kids.
Message edited 10/30/2013 2:59:23 PM.
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| Posted 10/30/13 2:58 PM |
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FranM
And so it goes....
Member since 9/05 2217 total posts
Name:
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by MrsDamonSalv7319
I think MANY parents would be thrilled if JUST the CC standards were kept, but the curriculum that the state has developed to go with them, along with the high stakes testing were thrown out. The standards, aren't all that different from the standards NYS already has in place.
Many more people are upset with the modules, curriculum, implementation, Pearson materials, In Bloom, etc than just the new standards.
If you WATCH the 14 minute video, much of this is explained...the PDF is from the testimony given, but he didn't just re-read testimony during the forum, he elaborated.
ETa: if anyone thinks that this is all about raising the educational bar in NY, and NOT about large corporations making money at our kids expense, please do more research. The fact that teachers, (teachers Unions), parents, and superintendents are ALL on the same side of this battle should be a clue that its not just parents opposing change.
 :
Message edited 10/30/2013 4:37:10 PM.
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| Posted 10/30/13 4:29 PM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by 05mommy09
Other states are implementing Common Core and they are not testing the way NY is....
See, this is why I keep pushing for the answer to where the problem really is. I'm just trying to figure out the whys and whats because some of the complaints just don't make sense to me. I have someone on my FB page that is screeching about how awful cc is but her explanations don't mesh up with what I've read and heard about what Common Core IS.
I'm in CT now and our schools are just starting to implement common core. And for the most part, our teachers are in favor of it, same with school administrators. Last night, DD1's teacher commented on how excited she is about Common core and the other thing her school implemented, responsive classroom.
But I don't believe we have the issues like NY with testing and curricula which may explain why there isn't as much outrage here and elsewhere about common core. The goals don't seem unattainable to me. DD1 is well on her way to her end of year goals along with the majority of her class.
So hearing the actual details that the problem isn't really with the Common Core standards and it is much more issue with NYSED and their implementation makes MUCH more sense.
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| Posted 10/30/13 5:48 PM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
And thank you to everyone who entertained my probing without getting all huffy and defensive on me!
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| Posted 10/30/13 5:50 PM |
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Teachergal
We made a snowman!
Member since 1/08 3239 total posts
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by mosh913
I'm all for a rigorous, higher level thinking curriculum but much of the common core is developmentally inappropriate.
This is the heart of the matter. Yes, we want our kids to be college ready. But what is being expected of our children at the early end of the spectrum (K-5) is unrealistic. We are asking children to do much higher level thinking than they are developmentally ready for at an earlier age. This is the problem.
The testing, quite honestly, is all just a joke. We had grade level to above grade level kids fail in our district and every other assessment given to these children throughout the year indicated they were indeed "passing" children yet somehow they failed the 3rd grade ELA. Sorry, that doesn't fly with me. How is it possible to pass every other test and yet fail? You know how? The test was designed for the children to fail! They were way too long with above grade level passages included. The tests had field test questions embedded in with the actual questions making the tests longer. This meant that some kids didn't even have time to finish! And don't even get me started on the fact that one of the passages included on the 5th grade ELA was also included in one of the test prep books. How you ask? Because the test prep books are made by the same people making the tests!!!!  I could go on and on but I won't. There are many, many problems with education today.
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| Posted 10/30/13 9:24 PM |
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Teachergal
We made a snowman!
Member since 1/08 3239 total posts
Name:
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by tara73
Posted by 05mommy09
Other states are implementing Common Core and they are not testing the way NY is....
I'm in CT now and our schools are just starting to implement common core. And for the most part, our teachers are in favor of it, same with school administrators. Last night, DD1's teacher commented on how excited she is about Common core and the other thing her school implemented, responsive classroom.
But I don't believe we have the issues like NY with testing and curricula which may explain why there isn't as much outrage here and elsewhere about common core. The goals don't seem unattainable to me. DD1 is well on her way to her end of year goals along with the majority of her class.
So hearing the actual details that the problem isn't really with the Common Core standards and it is much more issue with NYSED and their implementation makes MUCH more sense.
My district is already 3 years into implementing CC. I can tell you that the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" has widened more than it ever did before. For above average kids, CC works. For those average kids who might need some help or those with special needs, CC is hard and they are just falling farther and farther behind as the standards from grade to grade keep getting higher and higher. Do the standards work for some? Yes. Do they work for all? Definitely not. I spoke about it in a post above, but particularly in the earlier grades, CC is not developmentally appropriate for many kids.
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| Posted 10/30/13 9:34 PM |
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Diane
Hope is Contagious....catch it
Member since 5/05 30683 total posts
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D
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by Jacksmommy
Posted by BargainMama
Posted by MrsDamonSalv7319
Posted by Jacksmommy
"It's one size fits all" if you will, w/ little regard for special needs students-you can now ONLY get a regents diploma.
The
This is actually not true. There are two other credentials that students with disabilities can receive.
From what I heard, it's certificates, but not specifically a diploma...so when they are filling out applications that ask if they have a high school diploma, will they be able to say yes and provide one? If yes, than that's great bc that's not what I heard, and I think it's horrible if what I heard was true.
**** (quote messed up)
My son is in special ed, 9th grade. The state took away the IEP diploma starting in 2012. So now in order for him to receive a diploma, he has to pass the regent's test. The same exact test that the general education students take.
If he does not pass with a 65 or higher (not percentage..points) he can get a local diploma if he scores a 55 to 64. If he scores less than 55 he will get a certificate of completion. No diploma. I am very upset over this. He works his butt off in school, tries SO hard, gets graded well based on his effort, but NEVER passes these standardized tests. EVER. He gets 1's. So, he will go to school for 4 years, work his ass off, and get NOTHING in the end. He won't walk with his class and get a HS diploma. I'm disgusted by the change. It keeps me up at night.
I am sorry to be blunt, but then you were misinformed about what an IEP diploma was. Because, it wasn't just a catch for kids who didn't pass their regents. It was a piece of paper stating they attended high school. Students who received an IEP diploma were not able to attend the military or get jobs which required a high school diploma. And if your school has been blindly giving out IEP diplomas for the last several years for a child who has not been passing the regents, then they are not doing the right thing. An IEP Diploma (just like the SACC) is designed for students with SEVERE cognitive delays. There were no standards attached to receiving an IEP diploma, aside from attending school.
You are right in saying they are only credentials now, not diplomas, but it doesn't seem much different from previously. However, there is a new added bonus on one of the credentials. The school district has to make significant efforts to get the child work ready, including putting the child in the community for a certain amount (and it was several) of work hours, which your child, and others, can then claim as work experience. As I am sure you know, experience means a whole lot when applying for a job. In the past, there were kids who weren't passing, and just continued to do that, their whole high school career. Now, at least they will be required to have a set of skills to go out into the field with. They will have to do 2 years of a career and technical school as well.
In addition, for the diploma, for students with disabilities, there is a compensatory safety net, which allows students with between a 45-55 replace one (or more)of their five regents with one (or more)above a 65.
ETA: http://www.p12.nysed.gov/ciai/gradreq/diploma-credential-summary.pdf
Our boss just told us about these safety nets.
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| Posted 10/31/13 7:37 AM |
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BargainMama
LIF Adult
Member since 5/09 15657 total posts
Name:
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by Diane
Posted by Jacksmommy
Posted by BargainMama
Posted by MrsDamonSalv7319
Posted by Jacksmommy
"It's one size fits all" if you will, w/ little regard for special needs students-you can now ONLY get a regents diploma.
The
This is actually not true. There are two other credentials that students with disabilities can receive.
From what I heard, it's certificates, but not specifically a diploma...so when they are filling out applications that ask if they have a high school diploma, will they be able to say yes and provide one? If yes, than that's great bc that's not what I heard, and I think it's horrible if what I heard was true.
**** (quote messed up)
My son is in special ed, 9th grade. The state took away the IEP diploma starting in 2012. So now in order for him to receive a diploma, he has to pass the regent's test. The same exact test that the general education students take.
If he does not pass with a 65 or higher (not percentage..points) he can get a local diploma if he scores a 55 to 64. If he scores less than 55 he will get a certificate of completion. No diploma. I am very upset over this. He works his butt off in school, tries SO hard, gets graded well based on his effort, but NEVER passes these standardized tests. EVER. He gets 1's. So, he will go to school for 4 years, work his ass off, and get NOTHING in the end. He won't walk with his class and get a HS diploma. I'm disgusted by the change. It keeps me up at night.
I am sorry to be blunt, but then you were misinformed about what an IEP diploma was. Because, it wasn't just a catch for kids who didn't pass their regents. It was a piece of paper stating they attended high school. Students who received an IEP diploma were not able to attend the military or get jobs which required a high school diploma. And if your school has been blindly giving out IEP diplomas for the last several years for a child who has not been passing the regents, then they are not doing the right thing. An IEP Diploma (just like the SACC) is designed for students with SEVERE cognitive delays. There were no standards attached to receiving an IEP diploma, aside from attending school.
You are right in saying they are only credentials now, not diplomas, but it doesn't seem much different from previously. However, there is a new added bonus on one of the credentials. The school district has to make significant efforts to get the child work ready, including putting the child in the community for a certain amount (and it was several) of work hours, which your child, and others, can then claim as work experience. As I am sure you know, experience means a whole lot when applying for a job. In the past, there were kids who weren't passing, and just continued to do that, their whole high school career. Now, at least they will be required to have a set of skills to go out into the field with. They will have to do 2 years of a career and technical school as well.
In addition, for the diploma, for students with disabilities, there is a compensatory safety net, which allows students with between a 45-55 replace one (or more)of their five regents with one (or more)above a 65.
ETA: http://www.p12.nysed.gov/ciai/gradreq/diploma-credential-summary.pdf
Our boss just told us about these safety nets.
...but it says it's not for kids entering 9th grade after 2011. Unless I'm missing something?
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| Posted 10/31/13 9:21 AM |
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Xelindrya
Mommy's little YouTube Star!
Member since 8/05 14470 total posts
Name:
Veronica
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New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
So none of you have an issue of WHAT is being taught as far as materials? History specifically?
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| Posted 10/31/13 9:38 AM |
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by Xelindrya
So none of you have an issue of WHAT is being taught as far as materials? History specifically?
They are barely even teaching history on the elementary level. And people DO have a problem with the curriculum and that the state is saying exactly what should be taught and how...people don't necessarily have a problem with the Standards, which are a set of guidelines of what students should know and what skills they should have. Curriculum (what is taught) should not be coming from the state, but decided on by the district and teachers.
The Common Core Standards aren't really the issue alone, but in NY, the state adopted the standards, and curriculum, modules, testing, etc and is lumping it all together as Common Core, and that is the problem. Much of what is taught is developmentally inappropriate and in some cases, questionable. I think, in NY, the biggest issue is the high stakes testing of children's as young as first grade. You have to choose your battles, and the testing battle is leading the common core debate (but is not the only issue).
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| Posted 10/31/13 9:47 AM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by Xelindrya
So none of you have an issue of WHAT is being taught as far as materials? History specifically?
No, I do have an issue with the math that is being taught. It is so off base as far as I am concerned.
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| Posted 10/31/13 12:02 PM |
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2BadSoSad
LIF Adult
Member since 8/12 6791 total posts
Name:
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by CookiePuss
Posted by Xelindrya
So none of you have an issue of WHAT is being taught as far as materials? History specifically?
No, I do have an issue with the math that is being taught. It is so off base as far as I am concerned.
I do as well. I also have an issue with what is NOT being taught now.
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| Posted 10/31/13 12:19 PM |
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by CookiePuss
Posted by Xelindrya
So none of you have an issue of WHAT is being taught as far as materials? History specifically?
No, I do have an issue with the math that is being taught. It is so off base as far as I am concerned.
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| Posted 10/31/13 12:33 PM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by CookiePuss
Posted by Xelindrya
So none of you have an issue of WHAT is being taught as far as materials? History specifically?
No, I do have an issue with the math that is being taught. It is so off base as far as I am concerned.
Based on some of the math problems that have been posted on here, I am terrified that I will not be able to help my child with what should be simple K or 1st grade math. I can only hope that in 5 years when my baby starts K, this CC shit will be a thing of the past. The sooner it's fixed, the better.
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| Posted 10/31/13 12:40 PM |
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SeaWolf14
*Crazy Cat Lady*
Member since 7/13 1324 total posts
Name:
Heather
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by CookiePuss
Posted by Xelindrya
So none of you have an issue of WHAT is being taught as far as materials? History specifically?
No, I do have an issue with the math that is being taught. It is so off base as far as I am concerned.
Based on some of the math problems that have been posted on here, I am terrified that I will not be able to help my child with what should be simple K or 1st grade math. I can only hope that in 5 years when my baby starts K, this CC shit will be a thing of the past. The sooner it's fixed, the better.
I dont even understand how teachers who learned basic math the "normal" way are able to teach it. It just seems so unnecessary and foreign.
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| Posted 10/31/13 12:42 PM |
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MissJones
I need a nap!
Member since 5/05 22136 total posts
Name:
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Re: New Group - Stop Common Core Suffolk County!!!!
Posted by SeaWolf
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by CookiePuss
Posted by Xelindrya
So none of you have an issue of WHAT is being taught as far as materials? History specifically?
No, I do have an issue with the math that is being taught. It is so off base as far as I am concerned.
Based on some of the math problems that have been posted on here, I am terrified that I will not be able to help my child with what should be simple K or 1st grade math. I can only hope that in 5 years when my baby starts K, this CC shit will be a thing of the past. The sooner it's fixed, the better.
I dont even understand how teachers who learned basic math the "normal" way are able to teach it. It just seems so unnecessary and foreign.
Don't get me started on the math. I actually tell my kids (1st grade) that I personally don't like a particular method that I have to teach them, but like at the dinner table, we still have to try it.
For instance, one subtraction method is the bar model. The bar model is essentially teaching the children part+part=whole. But it's NOT a strategy to show children HOW subtraction works. Now the bar model is HUGE in Singapore Math which is *probably* why we need to teach it. And while this shows how it's used for subtraction:
THIS is just confusing because in order to just WRITE a SUBTRACTION problem, they have to ADD!!!
The children have to figure out the SUM (addition) only to fill in the blank on a subtraction problem: ____ - 59=85. Now that is great...for a GIFTED student! Not for a kid struggling with the concept of subtraction.
I taught G&T. I have my license. I have the experience. I KNOW Higher Order Thinking Skills, Blooms Taxonomy, Multiple Intelligence, enrichment, differentiation for gifted students...Common Core is NOT enriching NOR is it Higher Order Thinking. It is NOT cultivating critical thinking skills or thinking outside the box. It is essentially taking skills that have been expected to be mastered in one grade to NOW be mastered 2 grades down.
And as for being college and career ready...that's bs. It's college OR career ready because nobody is going to WANT to go to college if elementary school is this agonizing. We are only going to separate the classes even more with CC because again...learning starts at home and when there is a disparity between classes (poverty-middle) as it is, it's only going to get larger. We are going to be a nation of the rich get richer and poor work harder.
I joke with my colleagues that this is the answer to the immigration problem. Mexican day workers won't have jobs because America will be full of high school drop outs who will do all of the work. That's where we are heading.
Trust me, I'm all for universal national standards. But not this.
Message edited 11/1/2013 6:35:25 AM.
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| Posted 11/1/13 6:25 AM |
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