Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

I don't know if anyone remembers this post, but I wanted to share a quick and big update:

I turned down the Riker's job in September... and thought about it ever since.

It opened up again because they had a retirement - at least, I hope that's the real reason.

I applied again. In the body of the email to which I attached my documents, I wrote about how I deeply regretted turning the job down. I was stunned to receive an email back inviting me for another interview.

The principal remembered me, and the only question he really had for me was "what changed?". I went with brutal honesty: I said how I thought about the job ever since then, how I missed teaching, how the temp jobs I was working outside of my field made me realize how much I belong in the classroom, etc. I was offered the job on the spot and I accepted.

Actually, it sounds like a better position than the one I turned down in Sept. It's in the lower security unit. It's basically kids who committed lower level crimes, like possession of pot. Half my students in my old district probably could have been arrested at any given moment for the same thing.

Anyway, I had to share with my fellow teachers. I start next Monday, after break. I am excited, and looking forward to being a person who sees them as "students" and not "inmates", even just for a hour of their day. Wish me luck. I am sure I will have tons of stories to share.

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As I've mentioned, I am one of LIF's unemployed teachers.

I was a leave replacement for 1.5 years and they liked me, but no spot. I looked and looked but nothing.

I have a five month old DS so I have plenty to do, but unemployment runs out in December and I need to find work soon.

I applied for a position in NYC, they liked my resume, checked fingerprints, and scheduled me for an interview Friday and I could start immediately.

The catch? It's a new school - ON Riker's Island. Yep, all inmates.

They said they'll be offering positions on the spot and to make sure we actually want the position before we go to the interview.

The email said "it's an interview, not an information session" which, to me, discourages questions about the facility. The interview is off site because you can't go to the site until you're hired.

I have so many questions, but I might not know the answers until I have to make a decision.

I have three questions:

1. Am I crazy for even considering this (as my family thinks I am)?

2. Is it true that if you turn down a NYC job you can get blacklisted from getting hired there at a different school?

3. If I take the job, am I basically stuck there forever? I realize NYC is considered one district. If an position opens up in a more desirable school, will I not be considered a viable candidate because now they have to fill the more difficult spot? From the DOE's point of view, they have no reason to move me, KWIM?

Please share your thoughts. Thanks so much.

Message edited 2/20/2011 1:10:49 PM.

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

Ok, my first reaction was OMG!!!!!!

Now I have taken a breath. It would seem to be a high stress situation to be in. I could be wrong about that, but if it is a high stress job I would hesitate.

Good luck with your decision!

Message edited 9/22/2010 5:49:30 PM.

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

1. Am I crazy for even considering this (as my family thinks I am)?The first school I worked in was in the worst area in NYC...In 3 yrs I lost seven kids to gunshots

People thought I was crazy. I actually loved it. Sure it was not Rikers but MANY of my kids were in and out of jail. Think of it this way, you might be safer on Rikers with CO's in your classroom.

Second once you take it you are IN THE NYC DOE. In June you can apply as a transfer ANYWHERE. I worked in my old school 3 yrs, got excessed bc the school was closing and am now in the BEST district in NYC.

If you have not worked in NYC--this is an in..once in, you are in and can transfer.

Maybe I am as crazy as you but I would do it.

Believe it or not these kids respect people who respect them--usually

2. Is it true that if you turn down a NYC job you can get blacklisted from getting hired there at a different school? Not sure, dont think so

3. If I take the job, am I basically stuck there forever? See the above once in you can apply on open market and have a MUCH better chance of getting someting then if you are not in the NYC system

GOOD LUCK

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

I agree with the above poster. I would do it.

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

If the students are all inmates you will have a cop in the room. It's probably safer than some of the bad schools all over NYC. I would consider it but the first moment you feel afraid or something is just off, I wouldn't stay at the job. Your safety is more important.

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

Yep, what DiamondGirl said.

Message edited 9/22/2010 8:03:41 PM.

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

I would take it. Many of us work in bad neighborhoods and all we have are schook safety officers...you would have armed corrections officers.

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

A parent of a student I had 2 years ago works at Riker's as a teacher. I remember her telling me that to work there your Classroom Management as to be excellent, otherwise it can get extremely stressful (she saw many people come and go)

But I would still go for it, once you're in the DOE you're in and being that times are hard and teaching jobs are tough to come by this is definitely an oppurtunity.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

I think that teaching at Rikers has to be a whole different animal than teaching even in the worst NYC public school. It's a whole different dynamic...these kids are not free to come and go as they please. They are in jail.

I am sure that they take every precuation to insure your safety so, I am not saying that I wouldn't take it, but I would have to think really hard about it. I have to imagine it will be a really, really tough job and you have to have really, really, really tough skin to handle it.

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

Maybe I am crazy but I would think an opportunity like that would. Be awesome.. I used to work with a lady who worked there who said the same as diamo... good luck

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

I think you should try it if you are interested. You have nothing to lose. If you're not happy, you can always leave.

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

Like some else said....you have real security ...WITH GUNS...probably safer then some other places in the city.

The commute would bother me more then the population.

ANd you can always transfer....there is a hiring freeze in NYC and it is a good foot in the door, I know my principal (in a desirable schoo)l pretty much has to only hire people from within the system, this could be a way to sneak into the system.

Or maybe you will not want to transfer , who knows...you might like it.

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

Thank you all so much for your replies. I really appreciate them.

So basically, it's the opposite from what I was thinking? That I am better off in than out? So if I apply elsewhere as a transfer in June I have a better shot than an outsider?

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

For my first two years teaching, I taught in a "tough to staff" school, which had a program for students who had been in "a correctional facility."

I LOVED it. If the school hadn't closed, I'd still be there. I LOVED working with kids who really needed me and feeling like I made a difference every day.

That being said, it is emotionally exhausting work. I had two students die in two years and had to testify at a rape trial. I also knew many of my students' parole officers well. If I were older or married at the time, I probably couldn't have handled it. That is something to consider when you are applying.

Also, I know PP pointed out that you can transfer in June, but you still have to go through the regular job hunt process. I had a lot of schools tell me that with my background I "wasn't a right fit" for their school. I had made friends with a ton of literacy coaches and APs and so was able to find a job anyway, but it's definitely something people look at.

I still think you should take it, just wanted you to consider that part as well.

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

Posted by DiamondGirl

Posted by emc282rjm

For my first two years teaching, I taught in a "tough to staff" school, which had a program for students who had been in "a correctional facility."

I LOVED it. If the school hadn't closed, I'd still be there. I LOVED working with kids who really needed me and feeling like I made a difference every day.

That being said, it is emotionally exhausting work. I had two students die in two years and had to testify at a rape trial. I also knew many of my students' parole officers well. If I were older or married at the time, I probably couldn't have handled it. That is something to consider when you are applying.

Also, I know PP pointed out that you can transfer in June, but you still have to go through the regular job hunt process. I had a lot of schools tell me that with my background I "wasn't a right fit" for their school. I had made friends with a ton of literacy coaches and APs and so was able to find a job anyway, but it's definitely something people look at.

I still think you should take it, just wanted you to consider that part as well.

I could have written this and we are both named Liz

Although I will say I had the opposite experience when interviewing when I was excessed. My current school actually said "if you can make it there you can make it anywhere"...

I guess it depends on the Principal, kwim?

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

Hi,
I can definitly see why people would think you are crazy, but, there is another way to look at it.

While getting my masters, we had a guest speaker come in and tell us what is was like to work in a jail as a teacher. He said, believe it or not, it was a lot safer than working in most schools, because there was security everywhere, including the classroom. The inmates were all there for different reasons, ranging from robbery to murder, however, they all wanted to get out, so they were on their best behavior.

I think you should take this job. If you decide after you accept the position that you are not comfortable working there, you can either transfer to another school in NYC (it is where ever you choose to apply and they have openings) or quit.

As far as I know, if you turn down a NYC position, I don't think they blacklist you.

I would love to know how everything works out.

Message edited 9/24/2010 10:48:14 AM.

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

A teacher that I am currently teaching with taught at Riker's. He said it's probably the safest school he's ever worked in. The kids never caused him a problem and if they did the guards were right outside. He said, most of the time, the students didn't want to deal with the guards so they would do what they had to. He also had quite often the inmates who would get in trouble in the prison and were put in different punishments throughout the night, so they would come to class and just be quiet. It was the only place where they got a break and with very little sleep were very wiped out.

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

Since you all were kind enough to help me think this through I wanted to update.

I declined the job. Ultimately it was a combination of factors that led me to feel that is wasn't right for me. As I mentioned in my first post, questions were discouraged. I get that he's a busy man and needs serious candidates only, but this is my career and I need certain basic information. I asked direct questions that never got answered on topics ranging from academics to procedures.

Thanks again for all your input. I did consider what everyone said. The search continues. FYI, at the end of the day it was really not the population that deterred me. I really do want to teach and even though I followed my gut, I admit I question the decision.

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

Based on what you said, it sounds like you did the right thing. I am really surprised that your questions weren't answered- it would have benefited them to do so. It also gives a clue, IMO, into what it would be like to work for that person. Hang in there, the right job will come along hopefully!

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

Update in first post.

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

GREAT update! Congratulations and good luck!

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

That is great! I am sure he appreciated your honesty. Lots of luck!

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

A teacher at my school transferred from Rikers and actually liked it there better, lol! Doesn't say much for my school, huh??

Re: Please help - any teacher but esp. NYC

Congratulations and good luck! Can't wait to hear how it goes.