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headoverheels
s'il vous plaît
Member since 6/07 42079 total posts
Name:
LB
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praying man removed from flight
Praying Man Taken Off Flight
personally, i agree with what they did - it is soooo important to follow flight crew's instructions. to me, this is similar to what happened when the parents and toddler were removed from the flight when the parents could not get the child to sit in her seat. although in this case it was a grown man who knew better.
i am not religious, so maybe this is skewing my POV, but IMO, the safety of all the passengers is more important than finishing your prayers.
ETA: i say that i only agree with this if the plane was prevented from taking off because this man refused to take his seat. if they were still boarding, then i DON'T agree with this at all.
Message edited 4/18/2008 9:43:35 AM.
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Posted 4/18/08 9:41 AM  |
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MrsRivera
2 under 2...whew!!
Member since 2/07 9876 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: praying man removed from flight
I 100% agree with what they did.
Religious tolerance and understanding is one thing. But if it's in the interest of the safety of any of the passengers, I think they had every right to do what they did.
Bottom line: You can't be too careful in this day and age.
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| Posted 4/18/08 9:57 AM |
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lucyloo
nope
Member since 1/06 9758 total posts
Name:
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Re: praying man removed from flight
I agree with what they did. Why hold up a plane because one person has to say their prayers.
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| Posted 4/18/08 10:06 AM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Personally, I think its ridiculous. If you read the article, they waited for him to finish praying (2 minute) to get if off the plane. There is a very specific ritual for Jews to pray. It has to be done in a specific order within a certain time of day.
Taking him off the plane probably delayed the flight more than just letting him finish and take his seat. Then they had to take him and his things off. 
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| Posted 4/18/08 10:19 AM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by dita
I agree with what they did. Why hold up a plane because one person has to say their prayers.
But the plane was held up anyway. They waited for him to finish to remove him from the flight.
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| Posted 4/18/08 10:19 AM |
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Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
Name:
Susan
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by Shelly
Posted by dita
I agree with what they did. Why hold up a plane because one person has to say their prayers.
But the plane was held up anyway. They waited for him to finish to remove him from the flight.
I agree. He was not being disrespectful or trying to purposely make the flight unsafe or late.
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| Posted 4/18/08 10:31 AM |
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Christine
2nd verse same as the 1st
Member since 5/05 15287 total posts
Name:
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Re: praying man removed from flight
He must have known they were getting close to taking off and I think he should have told the flight attendent that he needed to pray and it would take x minutes before he started. That would have avoided the confrontation and let them know that he would not be able to stop/respond etc. I am sure his unresponsiveness added to the concern.
As for removing him, it seems ridiculous at that point. It would have been much easier to just let him sit down instead of getting him escorted off the flight.
Message edited 4/18/2008 10:43:11 AM.
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| Posted 4/18/08 10:41 AM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: praying man removed from flight
I do not agree with what they did at all...they let him finish and THEN removed him...absurd !!!!
He was done, he would have sat down, then the plane could have left......
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| Posted 4/18/08 10:47 AM |
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headoverheels
s'il vous plaît
Member since 6/07 42079 total posts
Name:
LB
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by stephanief
I do not agree with what they did at all...they let him finish and THEN removed him...absurd !!!!
He was done, he would have sat down, then the plane could have left......
yes, but what would have happened if he got up to pray again just as they were about to land? they had no way of predicting that (and, for obvious reasons, could not rely on him to tell them accurately). once again, it becomes a safety issue.
Message edited 4/18/2008 10:52:09 AM.
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| Posted 4/18/08 10:51 AM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by headoverheels
yes, but what would have happened if he got up to pray again just as they were about to land? they had no way of predicting that (and, for obvious reasons, could not rely on him to tell them accurately). once again, it becomes a safety issue.
What obvious reasons??? Do you think he did this DELIBERATELY?
I know many orthodox people. I'm sure he thought, I have enough tiem to do my prayer before we take off. He was wrong.
The crew could ask him to talk to them before starting his other prayers so that the situation could be avoided.
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| Posted 4/18/08 10:54 AM |
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lucyloo
nope
Member since 1/06 9758 total posts
Name:
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Re: praying man removed from flight
As a passenger this would make me nervous. I'm sure other passengers did not understand what was going on other than some guy was in the back of the plane holding up the take off.
Question - Does this ritual require him to get up from his seat?
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| Posted 4/18/08 10:55 AM |
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CathyB
Member since 5/05 19403 total posts
Name:
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Re: praying man removed from flight
I guess this is a dumb question, but he had to stand while he was praying? I'm Catholic so I have no idea about this ritual.
In either case, it would have taken longer than 2 minutes to get him off and all so that seems a little silly. I can see how if he was standing in the aisle it would be a problem for other customers who were boarding. Seems like he should have spoken to the flight attendants first to see if they could help him find a spot out of the way to pray for a few minutes.
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| Posted 4/18/08 10:57 AM |
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headoverheels
s'il vous plaît
Member since 6/07 42079 total posts
Name:
LB
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by Shelly
Posted by headoverheels
yes, but what would have happened if he got up to pray again just as they were about to land? they had no way of predicting that (and, for obvious reasons, could not rely on him to tell them accurately). once again, it becomes a safety issue.
What obvious reasons??? Do you think he did this DELIBERATELY?
I know many orthodox people. I'm sure he thought, I have enough tiem to do my prayer before we take off. He was wrong.
The crew could ask him to talk to them before starting his other prayers so that the situation could be avoided.
obvious reasons meaning that they had no idea of the exact time when they would land, so they couldn't predict if he would be standing when they needed to land.
should the flight delay landing b/c he won't sit down again? um, no.
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| Posted 4/18/08 10:58 AM |
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AmyG13
LIF Infant
Member since 12/07 159 total posts
Name:
Amy
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by dita
As a passenger this would make me nervous. I'm sure other passengers did not understand what was going on other than some guy was in the back of the plane holding up the take off.
Question - Does this ritual require him to get up from his seat?
I agree. I think they did the right thing. Yes, it probably took more time to remove him once he was finished, but as a passenger or a flight attendant it would make me nervous.
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| Posted 4/18/08 10:59 AM |
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MrsRbk
<3 <3 <3 <3
Member since 1/06 19197 total posts
Name:
Michelle
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by dita
Question - Does this ritual require him to get up from his seat?
Yes, many jewish prayers require standing up and facing a specific direction.
ETA: That there are many prayers where you cannot speak in the middle of as well.
Message edited 4/18/2008 11:13:42 AM.
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| Posted 4/18/08 11:12 AM |
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Porrruss
Nya nya nya
Member since 5/05 11618 total posts
Name:
Amy
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Re: praying man removed from flight
I'm wondering why someone would decide to book a flight that was so close to his required prayer time....
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| Posted 4/18/08 11:15 AM |
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quasi3
LIF Adult
Member since 7/07 1764 total posts
Name:
Stacey
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by Porrruss
I'm wondering why someone would decide to book a flight that was so close to his required prayer time....
agreed
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| Posted 4/18/08 11:32 AM |
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MrsRbk
<3 <3 <3 <3
Member since 1/06 19197 total posts
Name:
Michelle
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by quasi3
Posted by Porrruss
I'm wondering why someone would decide to book a flight that was so close to his required prayer time....
agreed
Perhaps there weren't that many available flights from NY to San Francisco to choose from? I know when I fly from her to the west coast, there are either very early A.M flights, or late afternoon flights, and not that many to choose from. Also, jewish prayers don't always get said at the same exact time every day, it has to do with the time when the sun rises/sets.
It took more time to escort him off the plane, get his bags from the plane then it would have taken for him to just sit in his seat after he finished, which they waited for anyway.
Message edited 4/18/2008 11:39:00 AM.
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| Posted 4/18/08 11:38 AM |
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Kara
Now Zagat Rated!
Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
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They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Okay, reading the article, I see nothing that says he was removed b/c he was delaying the flight. To the contrary, the flight landed "as scheduled" according to the article. My guess is that he was removed for failing to follow the advice of the crew members, which is a federal rule. They tell you at the beginning of every flight - passengers are required to follow the instructions of all crew members.
I'm NOT saying what was done was appropriate or not -- but this has nothing to do with being late as far as I see it. Yes, it risks a delay - but that's the reason for the rule, not the rule that was broken.
I think the entire thing is a giant (and very unfortunate) misunderstanding. I don't understand these prayers either and would not have known why the man was refusing to comply with flight attendant's instructions. The flight attendants should have listened to his friends and waited the two minutes. I think that flight personnel are extra sensitive to these sorts of things these days. I am sure that this hypersensitivity led them to making what in hindisight is probably a poor decision.
As for the argument that he could have done the same thing when the plane was starting to land -- well, the airlines didn't buy that. The man was removed from that flight and placed on another flight, according to the article.
I feel bad for all involved, especially the man who was praying.
Message edited 4/18/2008 11:42:27 AM.
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| Posted 4/18/08 11:41 AM |
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quasi3
LIF Adult
Member since 7/07 1764 total posts
Name:
Stacey
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Re: praying man removed from flight
I understand what you are saying, but these rules are for our protection and need to be inforced
Message edited 4/18/2008 11:42:14 AM.
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| Posted 4/18/08 11:41 AM |
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Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
Name:
Susan
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Re: praying man removed from flight
I'm sure this guy didn't think it would be such a big deal to take a few minutes and say his prayers. I'm sure he though that with the flight time he would have the few minutes.
If this happened prior to 9/11 I'm sure it wouldn't be sucha big deal. It sounds like they viewed it as a threat.
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| Posted 4/18/08 11:41 AM |
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Kara
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Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
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They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by Blu-ize
I'm sure this guy didn't think it would be such a big deal to take a few minutes and say his prayers. I'm sure he though that with the flight time he would have the few minutes.
If this happened prior to 9/11 I'm sure it wouldn't be sucha big deal. It sounds like they viewed it as a threat.
I totally agree.
And further to my post, I find this odd:
The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which runs area airports, and the Transportation Safety Administration, which handles airport security, said Thursday they weren't involved in the incident.
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| Posted 4/18/08 11:46 AM |
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headoverheels
s'il vous plaît
Member since 6/07 42079 total posts
Name:
LB
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by Kara
And further to my post, I find this odd:
The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which runs area airports, and the Transportation Safety Administration, which handles airport security, said Thursday they weren't involved in the incident.
this is odd - i didn't notice this before. if he was removed by security, then WHOSE security removed him? 
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| Posted 4/18/08 11:49 AM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by headoverheels
this is odd - i didn't notice this before. if he was removed by security, then WHOSE security removed him?
I assumed it was the airline's security.
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| Posted 4/18/08 11:53 AM |
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headoverheels
s'il vous plaît
Member since 6/07 42079 total posts
Name:
LB
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by Shelly
Posted by headoverheels
this is odd - i didn't notice this before. if he was removed by security, then WHOSE security removed him?
I assumed it was the airline's security.
i would think so too, but i am fairly sure they don't have their own security. not 100% positive though.
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| Posted 4/18/08 12:06 PM |
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