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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by quasi3
I did not say I would be afraid. But I understand why he was removed from the plane. If everyone did what they wanted it would be chaos. That is why rules are established
Like I said, I understand your point.
Message edited 4/18/2008 3:09:38 PM.
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Posted 4/18/08 3:09 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by joenick
That man did not follow the law. He was treated accordingly. The end.
actually- that's not true.
He didn't follow a RULE, not a law. It happened to be a rule that I didn't even know about and actually disobeyed twice on my last trip. I didn't know that some airlines have a rule that you have to sit when the seatbelt sign is on- even if the door is open. I always assume that you don't have to sit until the door is closed.
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| Posted 4/18/08 3:09 PM |
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Ginger123
Sooo happy
Member since 8/07 1235 total posts
Name:
dana
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Re: praying man removed from flight
his friends told the stewardess what he was doing, he was NOT a threat at all to anyone.....
what does it matter if there was no threat? The point is that you have to follow the law/rules. There is no threat to anyone when i am smoking a doobie in my basement but I would still go to jail if I got caught?
Message edited 4/18/2008 3:16:41 PM.
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| Posted 4/18/08 3:14 PM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by Ginger123
his friends told the stewardess what he was doing, he was NOT a threat at all to anyone.....
what does it matter if there was no threat? The point is that you have to follow the law. There is no threat to anyone when i am smoking a doobie in my basement but I would still go to jail if I got caught?
Again, what LAW are we talking about? There was RULE that you have to sit when the stewardess tell you, even if the door is open.
I didn't know about this rule. Maybe he didn't either.
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| Posted 4/18/08 3:15 PM |
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Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
Name:
Susan
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by Shelly
Posted by joenick
That man did not follow the law. He was treated accordingly. The end.
actually- that's not true.
He didn't follow a RULE, not a law. It happened to be a rule that I didn't even know about and actually disobeyed twice on my last trip. I didn't know that some airlines have a rule that you have to sit when the seatbelt sign is on- even if the door is open. I always assume that you don't have to sit until the door is closed.
i have gone to the bathroom when the seatbelt sign is on and I had to do it again when landing and taking off. I had to go and there was no one who could stop me. Were the flight attendants annoyed? Yes..too bad..I had no choice.
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| Posted 4/18/08 3:16 PM |
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Ginger123
Sooo happy
Member since 8/07 1235 total posts
Name:
dana
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Re: praying man removed from flight
there is a huge difference between not being aware of a rule/law and ignoring it and having your family explain.
I think it was a little harsh but you never know what really occurred, my point is that we should be conscious of the rules/laws around us no matter where we are
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| Posted 4/18/08 3:19 PM |
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AmyG13
LIF Infant
Member since 12/07 159 total posts
Name:
Amy
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by Shelly
Posted by Ginger123
his friends told the stewardess what he was doing, he was NOT a threat at all to anyone.....
what does it matter if there was no threat? The point is that you have to follow the law. There is no threat to anyone when i am smoking a doobie in my basement but I would still go to jail if I got caught?
Again, what LAW are we talking about? There was RULE that you have to sit when the stewardess tell you, even if the door is open.
I didn't know about this rule. Maybe he didn't either.
Federal Law states that you have to obey all posted signs and commands of flight crew. If the flight attendant says sit down and you don't, you are technically breaking the law.
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| Posted 4/18/08 3:21 PM |
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DandN
Twins are here!
Member since 3/06 3597 total posts
Name:
Deirdre
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Do airline crews have any training/classes where they learn about religious prayers/practices that might happen on a flight?
I think their handling of the situation seems to display a certain level of ignorance that frightens me. Yes - security is a concern - but the doors of the plane were open.
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| Posted 4/18/08 3:22 PM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by Ginger123
his friends told the stewardess what he was doing, he was NOT a threat at all to anyone.....
what does it matter if there was no threat? The point is that you have to follow the law/rules. There is no threat to anyone when i am smoking a doobie in my basement but I would still go to jail if I got caught?
Obviously, this is going no where. I think what they did was "extreme", you don't...let's leave it at that 
And I said he was not a threat because alot of people said they would be scared.
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| Posted 4/18/08 3:22 PM |
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Ginger123
Sooo happy
Member since 8/07 1235 total posts
Name:
dana
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Re: praying man removed from flight
what does it matter if its a law or a rule , someone in authority asked you to do something and if you dont follow it bc of your own personal circustance you shouldhave to pay the consequences.
Message edited 4/18/2008 3:27:48 PM.
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| Posted 4/18/08 3:24 PM |
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kahlua716
3 Girls for Me!
Member since 8/07 12475 total posts
Name:
Keri
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by Kara
Okay, reading the article, I see nothing that says he was removed b/c he was delaying the flight. To the contrary, the flight landed "as scheduled" according to the article. My guess is that he was removed for failing to follow the advice of the crew members, which is a federal rule. They tell you at the beginning of every flight - passengers are required to follow the instructions of all crew members.
I'm NOT saying what was done was appropriate or not -- but this has nothing to do with being late as far as I see it. Yes, it risks a delay - but that's the reason for the rule, not the rule that was broken.
I think the entire thing is a giant (and very unfortunate) misunderstanding. I don't understand these prayers either and would not have known why the man was refusing to comply with flight attendant's instructions. The flight attendants should have listened to his friends and waited the two minutes. I think that flight personnel are extra sensitive to these sorts of things these days. I am sure that this hypersensitivity led them to making what in hindisight is probably a poor decision.
As for the argument that he could have done the same thing when the plane was starting to land -- well, the airlines didn't buy that. The man was removed from that flight and placed on another flight, according to the article.
I feel bad for all involved, especially the man who was praying.
Very well said, and ITA!
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| Posted 4/18/08 3:24 PM |
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Christine
2nd verse same as the 1st
Member since 5/05 15287 total posts
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by DandN
Do airline crews have any training/classes where they learn about religious prayers/practices that might happen on a flight?
I think their handling of the situation seems to display a certain level of ignorance that frightens me. Yes - security is a concern - but the doors of the plane were open.
I was thinking the same thing. I have seen people get up to use the rest room while the plane was waiting on the runway to take off. If that is tolerated, a man praying for 3 minutes while the aircraft doors are open should also be tolerated after the other passenger explained what was going on.
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| Posted 4/18/08 3:24 PM |
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Ginger123
Sooo happy
Member since 8/07 1235 total posts
Name:
dana
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by stephanief
Posted by Ginger123
his friends told the stewardess what he was doing, he was NOT a threat at all to anyone.....
what does it matter if there was no threat? The point is that you have to follow the law/rules. There is no threat to anyone when i am smoking a doobie in my basement but I would still go to jail if I got caught?
Obviously, this is going no where. I think what they did was "extreme", you don't...let's leave it at that
And I said he was not a threat because alot of people said they would be scared.
I thought it was a good conversation, I am sorry if you thought my words sounded argumenatative. I also think the outcome was harsh but I wanted to talk about our generation as a whole. 
Message edited 4/18/2008 3:28:49 PM.
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| Posted 4/18/08 3:26 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: praying man removed from flight
so dumb! 
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| Posted 4/18/08 3:26 PM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by Christine
Posted by DandN
Do airline crews have any training/classes where they learn about religious prayers/practices that might happen on a flight?
I think their handling of the situation seems to display a certain level of ignorance that frightens me. Yes - security is a concern - but the doors of the plane were open.
I was thinking the same thing. I have seen people get up to use the rest room while the plane was waiting on the runway to take off. If that is tolerated, a man praying for 3 minutes while the aircraft doors are open should also be tolerated after the other passenger explained what was going on.
 however, unfortunately in this day and age, fear controls our actions 
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| Posted 4/18/08 3:27 PM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by Ginger123
Posted by stephanief
Posted by Ginger123
his friends told the stewardess what he was doing, he was NOT a threat at all to anyone.....
what does it matter if there was no threat? The point is that you have to follow the law/rules. There is no threat to anyone when i am smoking a doobie in my basement but I would still go to jail if I got caught?
Obviously, this is going no where. I think what they did was "extreme", you don't...let's leave it at that
And I said he was not a threat because alot of people said they would be scared.
I thought it was a good conversation, I am sorry if you thought my words sounded argumenatative. I also think it was harsh the outcome but wanted to talk about our generation as a whole.
no worries, I just don't have much energy to "debate" today 
I think it is so sad what 9/11 did to us as a country - instilled so much fear that we normally would not have.
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| Posted 4/18/08 3:28 PM |
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kahlua716
3 Girls for Me!
Member since 8/07 12475 total posts
Name:
Keri
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by AmyG13
Posted by Shelly
The not sitting down part maybe a safety issue, but your being scared by an Orthodox man praying, when two friends are telling the flight attendant what he is doing and why he can't stop and when he will be done is not a safety issue. Many people are scared by someone wearing a turban on their flight. Should all people with turbans be forbidden to fly because some people are scared?
A man in a turban wouldn't scare me. But a man in a turban, standing at the back of my plane, blatantly ignoring crew members, and praying in a foreign language (I'm assuming the Jewish prayers were not English) would scare me. Regardless of the religion I think the majority of the people on the plane would be upset by it. And I wouldn't be comforted by the friends explaining the actions. If it was some sort of a plot, they would probably be in on it and lying to the flight crew.
It may seem ignorant but it's today's reality. You can't trust anyone.
I still think the airline was in the right. If you don't obey the rules you don't fly.
I would guess the man left the plane without an argument and explained everything to staff in the terminal and that is why the TA wasn't involved.
You raise very good points. I also agree with you...I guess I'm not positive on how I feel.
When I read that his friends were explaining his actions, I kinda felt the airline was wrong...but now that you mention it- If I worked on an airline after 9-11 I probably wouldn't trust anyone who wasn't obeying rules regardless of religion or appearance.
ETA: After reading that the doors were still open- I don't think that the airline was justified.
Message edited 4/18/2008 3:38:14 PM.
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| Posted 4/18/08 3:30 PM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
Name:
That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
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Re: praying man removed from flight
If you don't follow instructions given by a cabin crew member, you are breaking the law.
It really doesn't matter what you are doing and if you were told to sit down and you refuse, you should be escorted off the plane.
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| Posted 4/18/08 4:41 PM |
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Reese32
LIF Adult
Member since 7/07 3631 total posts
Name:
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Re: praying man removed from flight
I go out of my way to respect other religions; I always try to give the benefit of the doubt. However, in this day and age, airline safety is a major concern. I understand this man had his religious beliefs, but there are rules that must be followed. I believe God understands these things, and really, that this man could have prayed in his seat.
I hope I didn't offend anyone by saying this, but I believe in a forgiving and understanding God, and I'm sure He would understand compromised circumstances.
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| Posted 4/18/08 5:36 PM |
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june262004
But I love the Snow!
Member since 5/05 15379 total posts
Name:
Kristin
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by Porrruss
I'm wondering why someone would decide to book a flight that was so close to his required prayer time....
My exact thought!
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| Posted 4/18/08 5:39 PM |
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luvsbob4603
To a healthy 2013
Member since 5/05 21840 total posts
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To a brand new year to a healthier me
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Re: praying man removed from flight
I think the flight attendents were wrong, If they were still on the ground and the doors were still open i think the man should be able to finish his prayers. I understand about Rules and regulations 'BUT' I have seen people on the flights before taking off standing up , Going to the bathroom . I thought they normally tell you instructions before taking off? I feel a law suit coming for this airline... I dont think he should have been removed from the Plane.
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| Posted 4/18/08 6:10 PM |
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juanvi
Get Out!
Member since 10/06 4463 total posts
Name:
Christina
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by Porrruss
I'm wondering why someone would decide to book a flight that was so close to his required prayer time....
This is what I was thinking. They did what they should have done. What if he disobeyed the flight crew during flight?
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| Posted 4/18/08 9:04 PM |
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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: praying man removed from flight
Posted by Goldi0218
Knowing how religious this man probably was, he should have thought about how his prayer rituals could feasibly interfere with his ability to travel.
I work in Crown Heights. Already, the stores have shut down for the Sabbath. People are pretty much where they need to be in preparation. They cannot travel after the sun goes down. Therefore, many do not drive a certain amount of time before they could feasibly get caught in traffic.
Similarly, this man should have considered unrpedictable time constraints and the possibility that his prayer rituals could pose a huge inconvenience to the general public. Public safety MUST come before religious beliefs ESPECIALLY in this day and age.
I am Jewish myself. Though I am not Orthodox, I am aware of the standing rituals as well as facing a certain direction and how prayers must be done at certain times of the day. The man planned poorly. One cannot expect the world to accommodate one person. It just doesnt work that way.
I agree (well except I am not Jewish). Although I do think there was a level of intolerance that was uncalled for, this man cannot be the only Orthodox Jew ever to fly, and honestly I would think that planning to fly while interrupting your rituals would not be appealing.
The first week that planes were allowed to fly post 9/11, I had to fly to a conference with a colleague who was Muslim. Even when we booked our flight prior, we had to make sure that the flight had no risk of being in the air or boarding/landing when he had to pray. Post 9/11, it was even MORE important to make sure, and although his prayers have been in practice for thousands of years, the public would have reacted differently to them post 9/11. So we changed the return flight to make sure that we would not be stuck in the airport during his prayer time. The new security lines made a normal 1/2 hour wait to board over 1 1/2 hours, so we had to bump our flight back (and pay more money too) to ensure that he did not make other passengers feel uncomfortable. It was his call, and that is how he chose to handle it.
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| Posted 4/19/08 8:35 AM |
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