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soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3
Member since 4/15 3635 total posts
Name:
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Re: Second wave?
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by RainyDay
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by MrsWoods
Heres the thing Covid is not going anywhere...ever. Vaccine or not, its now gonna be apart of our lives. So with that said its time to adapt and move on. Shutting down and reopening and shutting down and do it over and over again does nothing good for the economy. In my school there have been two cases already in the kindergarten classes, both mild. Eventually everyone will most likely get it in the long run.
I know several people who have had Covid TWICE in a few month span.
So how will a vaccine work if you can get it more than once?
Just curious.
Did they actually test negative and then tested positive again?
Correct. Case in point. My Father in Law. 87 years old. Tested postive in a nursing home in April.
Had mild symptoms. Complained of a cold.
Tested negatvie several times- because he had to test negative to go back to his old unit from the COVID unit.
Then had to test negative again to be moved to a new nursing home we got in him into.
A few weeks ago they called us- he's positive again.
Again he's fine. But this doesn't bode well for this wonderful vaccine that will save the world.
I also have a co worker in NC- same thing.
Tested negative. A few months later- got it again.
And a friend of my cousin upstate NY.
I wonder if it’s a different strain or evolving strains like in the case of the flu. If that’s the case and considering what they do with the flu vaccines, they’ll most likely come up with boosters or vaccines with different component profiles.
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Posted 11/11/20 4:32 AM  |
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Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource |
NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Second wave?
Posted by soontobemommyof2
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by RainyDay
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by MrsWoods
Heres the thing Covid is not going anywhere...ever. Vaccine or not, its now gonna be apart of our lives. So with that said its time to adapt and move on. Shutting down and reopening and shutting down and do it over and over again does nothing good for the economy. In my school there have been two cases already in the kindergarten classes, both mild. Eventually everyone will most likely get it in the long run.
I know several people who have had Covid TWICE in a few month span.
So how will a vaccine work if you can get it more than once?
Just curious.
Did they actually test negative and then tested positive again?
Correct. Case in point. My Father in Law. 87 years old. Tested postive in a nursing home in April.
Had mild symptoms. Complained of a cold.
Tested negatvie several times- because he had to test negative to go back to his old unit from the COVID unit.
Then had to test negative again to be moved to a new nursing home we got in him into.
A few weeks ago they called us- he's positive again.
Again he's fine. But this doesn't bode well for this wonderful vaccine that will save the world.
I also have a co worker in NC- same thing.
Tested negative. A few months later- got it again.
And a friend of my cousin upstate NY.
I wonder if it’s a different strain or evolving strains like in the case of the flu. If that’s the case and considering what they do with the flu vaccines, they’ll most likely come up with boosters or vaccines with different component profiles.
Probably. It's not something like polio or measles that you get a shot and it's eradicated.
I just hope this vaccine is more effective than the flu shot.
I can't tell you how many people get that shot and still get the flu.
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| Posted 11/11/20 4:41 AM |
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DancinBarefoot
06ers Rock!!
Member since 1/07 9534 total posts
Name:
The One My Mother Gave Me ;-)
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Re: Second wave?
Posted by busymomonli
Posted by LInMI
Unfortunately a 2nd wave is inevitable. There is no cure. You can't eradicated a virus without a vaccine, so we have to assume a 2nd wave is coming.
I do believe there will be closures, but not as severe as March. I can’t see that happening right before the holidays. The market would tank.
However, I do believe come January there will be another shut down like we saw in March. In the meantime, I keep hearing schools plan on shutting down after Thanksgiving and not going back until Jan. … NO!!!!!!!!!
Funny that you say that, I just heard the same thing. Unnecessary since the school numbers have been low.
The HS in my district is shut down today due to 9 positive cases and the inability to conduct complete contact tracing due to the sheer volume of people these 9 kids have been in contact with. The school is hoping it will be open on Thursday (since tomorrow is a holiday) with all the contact tracing complete, and only known contacts being quarantined.
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| Posted 11/11/20 4:42 AM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Second wave?
Posted by soontobemommyof2
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by RainyDay
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by MrsWoods
Heres the thing Covid is not going anywhere...ever. Vaccine or not, its now gonna be apart of our lives. So with that said its time to adapt and move on. Shutting down and reopening and shutting down and do it over and over again does nothing good for the economy. In my school there have been two cases already in the kindergarten classes, both mild. Eventually everyone will most likely get it in the long run.
I know several people who have had Covid TWICE in a few month span.
So how will a vaccine work if you can get it more than once?
Just curious.
Did they actually test negative and then tested positive again?
Correct. Case in point. My Father in Law. 87 years old. Tested postive in a nursing home in April.
Had mild symptoms. Complained of a cold.
Tested negatvie several times- because he had to test negative to go back to his old unit from the COVID unit.
Then had to test negative again to be moved to a new nursing home we got in him into.
A few weeks ago they called us- he's positive again.
Again he's fine. But this doesn't bode well for this wonderful vaccine that will save the world.
I also have a co worker in NC- same thing.
Tested negative. A few months later- got it again.
And a friend of my cousin upstate NY.
I wonder if it’s a different strain or evolving strains like in the case of the flu. If that’s the case and considering what they do with the flu vaccines, they’ll most likely come up with boosters or vaccines with different component profiles.
There's at least 6 strains, but so far, it seems like the strains are similar enough that one vaccine should work for all of them.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200803105246.htm
However, there have been several studies that are indicating that immunity from Covid-19 wears off after 3 or 4 months.
https://www.uclahealth.org/u-magazine/coronavirus-antibodies-fall-dramatically-in-first-3-months-after-mild-cases-of-covid-19#:~:text=The%20Cutting%20Edge-,Coronavirus%20Antibodies%20Fall%20Dramatically%20in%20First%203,Mild%20Cases%20of%20COVID-19&text=A%20UCLA%20study%20shows%20that,roughly%20half%20every%2036%20days.
That would mean that to be effective, everyone would need a booster every 3 months. Unless the vaccines can stay around longer than the natural antibodies, somehow.
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| Posted 11/11/20 4:51 AM |
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RainyDay
LIF Adult
Member since 6/15 3990 total posts
Name:
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Second wave?
So I just saw NJ cases are at almost 3,900 in a single day. Last week they just reached 2,000.
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| Posted 11/11/20 5:09 AM |
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soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3
Member since 4/15 3635 total posts
Name:
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Re: Second wave?
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by soontobemommyof2
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by RainyDay
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by MrsWoods
Heres the thing Covid is not going anywhere...ever. Vaccine or not, its now gonna be apart of our lives. So with that said its time to adapt and move on. Shutting down and reopening and shutting down and do it over and over again does nothing good for the economy. In my school there have been two cases already in the kindergarten classes, both mild. Eventually everyone will most likely get it in the long run.
I know several people who have had Covid TWICE in a few month span.
So how will a vaccine work if you can get it more than once?
Just curious.
Did they actually test negative and then tested positive again?
Correct. Case in point. My Father in Law. 87 years old. Tested postive in a nursing home in April.
Had mild symptoms. Complained of a cold.
Tested negatvie several times- because he had to test negative to go back to his old unit from the COVID unit.
Then had to test negative again to be moved to a new nursing home we got in him into.
A few weeks ago they called us- he's positive again.
Again he's fine. But this doesn't bode well for this wonderful vaccine that will save the world.
I also have a co worker in NC- same thing.
Tested negative. A few months later- got it again.
And a friend of my cousin upstate NY.
I wonder if it’s a different strain or evolving strains like in the case of the flu. If that’s the case and considering what they do with the flu vaccines, they’ll most likely come up with boosters or vaccines with different component profiles.
Probably. It's not something like polio or measles that you get a shot and it's eradicated.
I just hope this vaccine is more effective than the flu shot.
I can't tell you how many people get that shot and still get the flu.
U’re not completely immuned and can still get it from a wild strain or from the vaccine like in the case of measles, unfortunately.
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| Posted 11/11/20 5:10 AM |
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soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3
Member since 4/15 3635 total posts
Name:
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Re: Second wave?
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by soontobemommyof2
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by RainyDay
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by MrsWoods
Heres the thing Covid is not going anywhere...ever. Vaccine or not, its now gonna be apart of our lives. So with that said its time to adapt and move on. Shutting down and reopening and shutting down and do it over and over again does nothing good for the economy. In my school there have been two cases already in the kindergarten classes, both mild. Eventually everyone will most likely get it in the long run.
I know several people who have had Covid TWICE in a few month span.
So how will a vaccine work if you can get it more than once?
Just curious.
Did they actually test negative and then tested positive again?
Correct. Case in point. My Father in Law. 87 years old. Tested postive in a nursing home in April.
Had mild symptoms. Complained of a cold.
Tested negatvie several times- because he had to test negative to go back to his old unit from the COVID unit.
Then had to test negative again to be moved to a new nursing home we got in him into.
A few weeks ago they called us- he's positive again.
Again he's fine. But this doesn't bode well for this wonderful vaccine that will save the world.
I also have a co worker in NC- same thing.
Tested negative. A few months later- got it again.
And a friend of my cousin upstate NY.
I wonder if it’s a different strain or evolving strains like in the case of the flu. If that’s the case and considering what they do with the flu vaccines, they’ll most likely come up with boosters or vaccines with different component profiles.
There's at least 6 strains, but so far, it seems like the strains are similar enough that one vaccine should work for all of them.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200803105246.htm
However, there have been several studies that are indicating that immunity from Covid-19 wears off after 3 or 4 months.
https://www.uclahealth.org/u-magazine/coronavirus-antibodies-fall-dramatically-in-first-3-months-after-mild-cases-of-covid-19#:~:text=The%20Cutting%20Edge-,Coronavirus%20Antibodies%20Fall%20Dramatically%20in%20First%203,Mild%20Cases%20of%20COVID-19&text=A%20UCLA%20study%20shows%20that,roughly%20half%20every%2036%20days.
That would mean that to be effective, everyone would need a booster every 3 months. Unless the vaccines can stay around longer than the natural antibodies, somehow.
Every 3 months would be insane!!!
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| Posted 11/11/20 5:14 AM |
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shadows
LIF Adult
Member since 1/10 4694 total posts
Name:
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Re: Second wave?
Posted by soontobemommyof2
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by soontobemommyof2
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by RainyDay
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by MrsWoods
Heres the thing Covid is not going anywhere...ever. Vaccine or not, its now gonna be apart of our lives. So with that said its time to adapt and move on. Shutting down and reopening and shutting down and do it over and over again does nothing good for the economy. In my school there have been two cases already in the kindergarten classes, both mild. Eventually everyone will most likely get it in the long run.
I know several people who have had Covid TWICE in a few month span.
So how will a vaccine work if you can get it more than once?
Just curious.
Did they actually test negative and then tested positive again?
Correct. Case in point. My Father in Law. 87 years old. Tested postive in a nursing home in April.
Had mild symptoms. Complained of a cold.
Tested negatvie several times- because he had to test negative to go back to his old unit from the COVID unit.
Then had to test negative again to be moved to a new nursing home we got in him into.
A few weeks ago they called us- he's positive again.
Again he's fine. But this doesn't bode well for this wonderful vaccine that will save the world.
I also have a co worker in NC- same thing.
Tested negative. A few months later- got it again.
And a friend of my cousin upstate NY.
I wonder if it’s a different strain or evolving strains like in the case of the flu. If that’s the case and considering what they do with the flu vaccines, they’ll most likely come up with boosters or vaccines with different component profiles.
There's at least 6 strains, but so far, it seems like the strains are similar enough that one vaccine should work for all of them.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200803105246.htm
However, there have been several studies that are indicating that immunity from Covid-19 wears off after 3 or 4 months.
https://www.uclahealth.org/u-magazine/coronavirus-antibodies-fall-dramatically-in-first-3-months-after-mild-cases-of-covid-19#:~:text=The%20Cutting%20Edge-,Coronavirus%20Antibodies%20Fall%20Dramatically%20in%20First%203,Mild%20Cases%20of%20COVID-19&text=A%20UCLA%20study%20shows%20that,roughly%20half%20every%2036%20days.
That would mean that to be effective, everyone would need a booster every 3 months. Unless the vaccines can stay around longer than the natural antibodies, somehow.
Every 3 months would be insane!!!
Yeah no thanks.
But I don’t plan on getting the vaccine anyway so don’t go by me.
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| Posted 11/11/20 5:41 AM |
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Mrs213
????????
Member since 2/09 18986 total posts
Name:
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Second wave?
I am concerned. 3 cases in a local school by me. School is closed until 11/30. This all just getting too much to take. I worry that there will be another shutdown and the economy will fail miserably. This is all very stressful especially for business owners
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| Posted 11/11/20 5:46 AM |
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Second wave?
I think a second lockdown will happen. In Suffolk covid rate I believe is 3.4%. Cuomo I think said 5% signals a lockdown? Either way, my hospital has seen an increase. We went from 3 patients most of the summer to I believe 18-21. Could be a fluke it hasn’t been steady but I think if there is a significantly higher rise then there will be without a doubt. Xplore play place in port Jeff closed again due to orders by the state so I know it’s coming. A local high school to me is closed due to covid increases.
Kinda hoping this vaccine is more promising. I plan to take it. Health care workers are going to be part of the high risk group. If they do it at my hospital I have no issue taking the vaccine and feel if there’s plenty of trials and testing then it’s ok
Message edited 11/11/2020 6:30:39 AM.
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| Posted 11/11/20 6:26 AM |
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Christine2
LIF Adult
Member since 2/09 1217 total posts
Name:
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Re: Second wave?
Posted by valentinesbaby48
Does anyone know someone with covid right now?
Anyone hospitalized?
Anyone died?
My brother has it right now, possibly my coworker (her husband has it and she is quarantining awaiting her results).
A colleague has been hospitalized and died.
My great-aunt died.
I am certain there will be a lockdown of sorts...I fully expect schools to go remote by Jan.
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| Posted 11/11/20 8:30 AM |
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ali120206
2 Boys
Member since 7/06 17792 total posts
Name:
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Re: Second wave?
Posted by Christine2
Posted by valentinesbaby48
Does anyone know someone with covid right now?
Anyone hospitalized?
Anyone died?
My brother has it right now, possibly my coworker (her husband has it and she is quarantining awaiting her results).
A colleague has been hospitalized and died.
My great-aunt died.
I am certain there will be a lockdown of sorts...I fully expect schools to go remote by Jan.
I’m thinking we will go full remote after Thanksgiving - that is if we go back when we are supposed to (as DS1 is full remote now until right before Thanksgiving)
Message edited 11/11/2020 10:31:12 AM.
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| Posted 11/11/20 9:42 AM |
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Naturalmama
Love my boys!!
Member since 1/12 3548 total posts
Name:
Christine
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Second wave?
Being that Cuomo actually allowed schools in red zones to reopen even though the area was still classified as red, I am hopeful he will not be as quick to close schools this time, and if he does, it will only be like 4 weeks.
NJ and CT are seeing surges worse than NY, and have already reinstated many restrictions but kept schools open. Europe did this as well. Fingers crossed.
Message edited 11/11/2020 10:05:17 AM.
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| Posted 11/11/20 10:03 AM |
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ali120206
2 Boys
Member since 7/06 17792 total posts
Name:
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Re: Second wave?
Posted by Naturalmama
Being that Cuomo actually allowed schools in red zones to reopen even though the area was still classified as red, I am hopeful he will not be as quick to close schools this time, and if he does, it will only be like 4 weeks.
NJ and CT are seeing surges worse than NY, and have already reinstated many restrictions but kept schools open. Europe did this as well. Fingers crossed.
I think the districts are going to throw in the towel in anticipation of holiday surges.
DS 1s school has two positive staff and 4 positive kids right now and they are shut for a few weeks as 20 teachers are in quarantine.
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| Posted 11/11/20 10:36 AM |
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luckystar08
LIF Infant
Member since 9/08 354 total posts
Name:
C
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Re: Second wave?
Posted by valentinesbaby48
Does anyone know someone with covid right now?
Anyone hospitalized?
Anyone died?
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| Posted 11/11/20 8:40 PM |
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Re: Second wave?
I ask because our numbers supposedly have jumped up so much.
I am curious if coronavirus, the typical cold, is also detected in these tests. I know many who have tested positive and it was the exact symptoms of a cold.
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| Posted 11/11/20 8:51 PM |
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chilltocam
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 9141 total posts
Name:
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Re: Second wave?
Posted by valentinesbaby48
Does anyone know someone with covid right now?
Anyone hospitalized?
Anyone died?
Over 1,000 people PER DAY, in this country, have died recently. 1,400 yesterday. Maybe they are "nameless, faceless" people to you, and not known by anyone on this board, but they are the loved ones of someone. Thousands of families in pain EVER DAY
Message edited 11/11/2020 9:49:10 PM.
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| Posted 11/11/20 9:47 PM |
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Re: Second wave?
Posted by chilltocam
Posted by valentinesbaby48
Does anyone know someone with covid right now?
Anyone hospitalized?
Anyone died?
Over 1,000 people PER DAY, in this country, have died recently. 1,400 yesterday. Maybe they are "nameless, faceless" people to you, and not known by anyone on this board, but they are the loved ones of someone. Thousands of families in pain EVER DAY
It is very sad when anyone dies 
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| Posted 11/11/20 10:26 PM |
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RainyDay
LIF Adult
Member since 6/15 3990 total posts
Name:
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Re: Second wave?
Posted by valentinesbaby48
I ask because our numbers supposedly have jumped up so much.
I am curious if coronavirus, the typical cold, is also detected in these tests. I know many who have tested positive and it was the exact symptoms of a cold.
Um have you not been paying attention to the news these last few months......we are ALL AWARE that some of the symptoms are the exact as a cold. Why do you keep asking the SAME questions?
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| Posted 11/11/20 11:04 PM |
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Re: Second wave?
Posted by RainyDay
Posted by valentinesbaby48
I ask because our numbers supposedly have jumped up so much.
I am curious if coronavirus, the typical cold, is also detected in these tests. I know many who have tested positive and it was the exact symptoms of a cold.
Um have you not been paying attention to the news these last few months......we are ALL AWARE that some of the symptoms are the exact as a cold. Why do you keep asking the SAME questions?
Yep and some have underlying conditions that might intensify the symptoms.
So how do we know that the regular cold, coronavirus is not being tested in the covid test as well?
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| Posted 11/11/20 11:12 PM |
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PitterPatter11
Baby Boy is Here!
Member since 5/11 7619 total posts
Name:
Momma <3
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Re: Second wave?
Posted by valentinesbaby48
Posted by RainyDay
Posted by valentinesbaby48
I ask because our numbers supposedly have jumped up so much.
I am curious if coronavirus, the typical cold, is also detected in these tests. I know many who have tested positive and it was the exact symptoms of a cold.
Um have you not been paying attention to the news these last few months......we are ALL AWARE that some of the symptoms are the exact as a cold. Why do you keep asking the SAME questions?
Yep and some have underlying conditions that might intensify the symptoms.
So how do we know that the regular cold, coronavirus is not being tested in the covid test as well?
The PCR test amplifies a specific sequence of genetic Information that is unique to Covid 19. If you get a positive PCR, you have Covid not a cold.
The antigen rapid test often produces false NEGATIVES if your viral Load is low and that’s why schools will not accept it.
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| Posted 11/11/20 11:22 PM |
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queensgal
Smile
Member since 4/09 3287 total posts
Name:
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Re: Second wave?
Posted by valentinesbaby48
Posted by RainyDay
Posted by valentinesbaby48
I ask because our numbers supposedly have jumped up so much.
I am curious if coronavirus, the typical cold, is also detected in these tests. I know many who have tested positive and it was the exact symptoms of a cold.
Um have you not been paying attention to the news these last few months......we are ALL AWARE that some of the symptoms are the exact as a cold. Why do you keep asking the SAME questions?
Yep and some have underlying conditions that might intensify the symptoms.
So how do we know that the regular cold, coronavirus is not being tested in the covid test as well?
Go away. You sound like a fool. Why are you such an internet troll? I don’t see why anyone would act like you. Why pleasure do you get from your nonsense?
The tests are for covid-19 which is the particular strain that is causing the pandemic. Common people are using the term coronavirus which is the umbrella term but when someone tests positive, it’s for covid-19 not a common cold.
You are so disrespectful. People have lost loved ones and friends. Go take a walk and think about how you could make yourself a better human.
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| Posted 11/11/20 11:24 PM |
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seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
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Re: Second wave?
I am fascinated by this site. The truth is, none of us knows whether we are talking to a person with whom we have lots in common, an 8 year old kid, a foreign bot or professional troll, or a famous politician. We have no idea who we are talking to.
For me, it's not about a screen name that bothers me by saying certain things--none do. I have no idea if you are Patricia from the block, Dr. Fauci, or a foreign troll with a mission to sow division and ignorance in the U.S. (they exist on social media, as do bots).
What fascinates me is how much some of what I think the absurd things said here are said in society. Like "supposedly" numbers are rising and people are dying. Or that Trump could mathematically still win as of this week. Or that masks won't save lives, but could harm us. Things that fly in the face of FACT.
It is hard to tell who is for real on here. It is hard to tell who is bored and messing with people, who has been exposed to and influenced by misinformation. It is hard to tell who wishes society well and who wishes society harm. It is hard to tell who is a real person with a real intellect and who is simply a victim of others' misinformation campaigns.
But it is fascinating to read all of this and to think about what is going on in our society. And how it will affect everything from public health to civil unrest to education. It is fascinating to think about what future generations will learn about society and events now and how they will feel when they do. Everything from conspiracy theories to holocaust denial to election interference in 2016 to the demonization and harassment of doctors. I wonder how our children and grandchildren will judge us all.
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| Posted 11/12/20 12:19 AM |
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Re: Second wave?
Posted by PitterPatter11
Posted by valentinesbaby48
Posted by RainyDay
Posted by valentinesbaby48
I ask because our numbers supposedly have jumped up so much.
I am curious if coronavirus, the typical cold, is also detected in these tests. I know many who have tested positive and it was the exact symptoms of a cold.
Um have you not been paying attention to the news these last few months......we are ALL AWARE that some of the symptoms are the exact as a cold. Why do you keep asking the SAME questions?
Yep and some have underlying conditions that might intensify the symptoms.
So how do we know that the regular cold, coronavirus is not being tested in the covid test as well?
The PCR test amplifies a specific sequence of genetic Information that is unique to Covid 19. If you get a positive PCR, you have Covid not a cold.
The antigen rapid test often produces false NEGATIVES if your viral Load is low and that’s why schools will not accept it.
Thank you
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| Posted 11/12/20 1:48 AM |
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Re: Second wave?
Posted by seaside
I am fascinated by this site. The truth is, none of us knows whether we are talking to a person with whom we have lots in common, an 8 year old kid, a foreign bot or professional troll, or a famous politician. We have no idea who we are talking to.
For me, it's not about a screen name that bothers me by saying certain things--none do. I have no idea if you are Patricia from the block, Dr. Fauci, or a foreign troll with a mission to sow division and ignorance in the U.S. (they exist on social media, as do bots).
What fascinates me is how much some of what I think the absurd things said here are said in society. Like "supposedly" numbers are rising and people are dying. Or that Trump could mathematically still win as of this week. Or that masks won't save lives, but could harm us. Things that fly in the face of FACT.
It is hard to tell who is for real on here. It is hard to tell who is bored and messing with people, who has been exposed to and influenced by misinformation. It is hard to tell who wishes society well and who wishes society harm. It is hard to tell who is a real person with a real intellect and who is simply a victim of others' misinformation campaigns.
But it is fascinating to read all of this and to think about what is going on in our society. And how it will affect everything from public health to civil unrest to education. It is fascinating to think about what future generations will learn about society and events now and how they will feel when they do. Everything from conspiracy theories to holocaust denial to election interference in 2016 to the demonization and harassment of doctors. I wonder how our children and grandchildren will judge us all.
I pray our grandchildren don’t act like middle schoolers forever like many people now do. The cliques that still attack people like they did when they are in high school. Now instead of how people look it is how much money they make, the amount of degrees they have (which money can’t buy common sense), how different their views are.
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| Posted 11/12/20 1:52 AM |
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